[SPAM] FW: RE: The logs could do with a courtesy flush

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > The Goodmine > [SPAM] FW: RE: The logs could do with a courtesy flush

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orange juche: Mar 14, 2012

Dirt Road Junglist posted:

I'm all in on changing things that are actually racist, but don't just do a find/replace on all instances of the word "black" and then pat yourself on the back for being so gosh darned inclusive. This task is going to take time and effort, and the fact that my company is throwing it over the fence to have each team do the changes with zero guidance is bullshit.

Which is why I'm trying to claw my way onto the proposed docs change committee, so I can be the change I want to see instead of just smoking weed and screaming out the window.

Yeah the guidance handed down for us was basically "find/replace all instances of black/white in code", and an email about an inclusiveness meeting on Zoom. You can see why my default reaction is to reach for the bottle there, because they're doing the minimum possible to pat themselves on the back.

# ? Jul 28, 2020 23:49

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# ? Apr 25, 2024 05:30

Geemer: Nov 4, 2010

Don't worry, eventually we'll be outraged by literally any qualifier in literally any context and we'll ban communication.

# ? Jul 28, 2020 23:50

BallerBallerDillz: Jun 11, 2009; Cock, Rules, Everything, Around, Me; Scratchmo

yeah, I'm all for making inclusive changes and I'm glad more places are doing it now but it's definitely going to take me a long time for my muscle memory to get used to

code:

git merge upstream/main

What's really going to suck is the change will take years to propagate through various different open source projects so it'll take even longer to get used to main as the primary git branch. Anyone see any good solutions yet for just using main in all your git commands and having some abstraction to change it to master if the upstream repo doesn't have a main branch?

# ? Jul 29, 2020 00:00

Darchangel: Feb 12, 2009; Tell him about the blower!

BallerBallerDillz posted:

goodies/baddies

I fully support this one.

# ? Jul 29, 2020 00:04

dragonshardz: May 2, 2017

Geemer posted:

Don't worry, eventually we'll be outraged by literally any qualifier in literally any context and we'll ban communication.

Very spicy take there, friend.

# ? Jul 29, 2020 02:00

sfwarlock: Aug 11, 2007

last time this came up at a place I worked at, "mamaduck" and "ducklings" was the most popular replacement for master and slave.

Oh, and I have a Mitch update/meltdown. stay tuned.

# ? Jul 29, 2020 02:03

devmd01: Mar 7, 2006; Elektronik
Supersonik

# ? Jul 29, 2020 02:06

Dirt Road Junglist: Oct 8, 2010; We will be cruel
And through our cruelty
They will know who we are

sfwarlock posted:

last time this came up at a place I worked at, "mamaduck" and "ducklings" was the most popular replacement for master and slave.

I want to steal that :allears:

devmd01 posted:

# ? Jul 29, 2020 02:14

Dr. Arbitrary: Mar 15, 2006; Bleak Gremlin

I've been specializing in a system that has Overlord, Middle-Managers, Supervisors and Peons

# ? Jul 29, 2020 02:23

Guy Axlerod: Dec 29, 2008

Druid?

A friend said his company has a initiative to also remove any military or violent metaphors. They also said a sanity check or sane default was ableist and no longer allowed.

# ? Jul 29, 2020 02:49

Dr. Arbitrary: Mar 15, 2006; Bleak Gremlin

Guy Axlerod posted:

Druid?

A friend said his company has a initiative to also remove any military or violent metaphors. They also said a sanity check or sane default was ableist and no longer allowed.

That's the one. I worked on some super obscure Hadoop DB system before where I had to write a ton of my own code to automate, so it was really nice to see supervisors that are what I wrote, except good.

# ? Jul 29, 2020 02:59

Deuce: Jun 18, 2004; Mile High Club

Director/Actor?
Bow/Arrow?
Driver/Car?

Do they have to make sense?

# ? Jul 29, 2020 03:05

Guy Axlerod: Dec 29, 2008

Mr. Garrison / Mr. Slave

# ? Jul 29, 2020 03:10

Powered Descent: Jul 13, 2008; We haven't had that spirit here since 1969.

Guy Axlerod posted:

They also said a sanity check or sane default was ableist and no longer allowed.

We've been known to use "cromulent".

Really.

# ? Jul 29, 2020 03:47

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

sfwarlock posted:

last time this came up at a place I worked at, "mamaduck" and "ducklings" was the most popular replacement for master and slave.

Oh, and I have a Mitch update/meltdown. stay tuned.

You come right the gently caress back here this instant and share the gossip! :toughguy:

# ? Jul 29, 2020 04:08

mllaneza: Apr 28, 2007; Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952

Guy Axlerod posted:

Mr. Garrison / Mr. Slave

Mr. Slave / Mr. Garrison

:colbert:

# ? Jul 29, 2020 04:14

TITTIEKISSER69: Mar 19, 2005; SAVE THE BEES
PLANT MORE TREES
CLEAN THE SEAS
KISS TITTIESS

Management / Talent

# ? Jul 29, 2020 04:15

Data Graham: Dec 28, 2009; 📈📊🍪😋

Dirt Road Junglist posted:

I'm all in on changing things that are actually racist, but don't just do a find/replace on all instances of the word "black" and then pat yourself on the back for being so gosh darned inclusive. This task is going to take time and effort, and the fact that my company is throwing it over the fence to have each team do the changes with zero guidance is bullshit.

Which is why I'm trying to claw my way onto the proposed docs change committee, so I can be the change I want to see instead of just smoking weed and screaming out the window.

Just require all users to install the black2butt extension

# ? Jul 29, 2020 04:22

Geemer: Nov 4, 2010

dragonshardz posted:

Very spicy take there, friend.

You're right. I probably shouldn't post hot takes like that right before going to bed.

My point is that people are chomping at the bit to get outraged at anything just so they can turn around and go "see how woke I am? Aren't I a great person? Please validate me! Social media has trained me to think I'm worthless unless I get a constant stream of likes!"

It's like that goon that used search to burst into threads and berate people talking about trannies, only to end up in AI with people talking about their transmissions. I'm all for dropping casual racism and slurs from our vocabulary, but even mentioning black or white in the context of paint coatings can trigger some brokebrained idiots.

A lot of the proposed solutions, in the context of real people, are "we can't call them [slur] anymore, let's call them [new term that doesn't have a negative charge yet]" only for it to be repeated a couple years down the line.
Surprise! Racism by any other name doesn't solve racism.

Taking out objectively racist terminology: good.
Taking out terminology that might potentially be considered racist if taken out of context and even then only by people with racism on the mind: you'll end up being able to differentiate at all in the end.

# ? Jul 29, 2020 05:45

Methanar: Sep 26, 2013; by the sex ghost

Geemer posted:

My point is that people are chomping at the bit to get outraged at anything just so they can turn around and go "see how woke I am? Aren't I a great person? Please validate me! Social media has trained me to think I'm worthless unless I get a constant stream of likes!"

quote:

find/replace on all instances of the word "black" and then pat yourself on the back for being so gosh darned inclusive

# ? Jul 29, 2020 05:49

Sickening: Jul 16, 2007; Black summer was the best summer.

Geemer posted:

You're right. I probably shouldn't post hot takes like that right before going to bed.

My point is that people are chomping at the bit to get outraged at anything just so they can turn around and go "see how woke I am? Aren't I a great person? Please validate me! Social media has trained me to think I'm worthless unless I get a constant stream of likes!"

It's like that goon that used search to burst into threads and berate people talking about trannies, only to end up in AI with people talking about their transmissions. I'm all for dropping casual racism and slurs from our vocabulary, but even mentioning black or white in the context of paint coatings can trigger some brokebrained idiots.

A lot of the proposed solutions, in the context of real people, are "we can't call them [slur] anymore, let's call them [new term that doesn't have a negative charge yet]" only for it to be repeated a couple years down the line.
Surprise! Racism by any other name doesn't solve racism.

Taking out objectively racist terminology: good.
Taking out terminology that might potentially be considered racist if taken out of context and even then only by people with racism on the mind: you'll end up being able to differentiate at all in the end.

The world is going to keep changing. Learn to change with it. Your entire attitude about this topic is toxic and you would benefit by changing. God speed.

Like you are giving out racist, bigot vibes in a big way. Just stop.

# ? Jul 29, 2020 05:53

Proteus Jones: Feb 28, 2013

larchesdanrew posted:

That doesn't concern you

God drat.

Larches with with the callback FROM DOWNTOWN... YES!

# ? Jul 29, 2020 05:55

Ghostlight: Sep 25, 2009; maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me

maybe you think it's beyond silly to get offended by someone not wanting to type out transmission in full but on the other hand is it really an insurmountable amount of personal effort to put in to avoid using what could be interpreted as a slur toward a marginalised group or even just bring to the mind of that marginalised group memories of that word being used against them in a different context.

anyway, i'm going with otp kirk/spock.

# ? Jul 29, 2020 06:06

dragonshardz: May 2, 2017

Geemer posted:

You're right. I probably shouldn't post hot takes like that right before going to bed.

My point is that people are chomping at the bit to get outraged at anything just so they can turn around and go "see how woke I am? Aren't I a great person? Please validate me! Social media has trained me to think I'm worthless unless I get a constant stream of likes!"

It's like that goon that used search to burst into threads and berate people talking about trannies, only to end up in AI with people talking about their transmissions. I'm all for dropping casual racism and slurs from our vocabulary, but even mentioning black or white in the context of paint coatings can trigger some brokebrained idiots.

A lot of the proposed solutions, in the context of real people, are "we can't call them [slur] anymore, let's call them [new term that doesn't have a negative charge yet]" only for it to be repeated a couple years down the line.
Surprise! Racism by any other name doesn't solve racism.

Taking out objectively racist terminology: good.
Taking out terminology that might potentially be considered racist if taken out of context and even then only by people with racism on the mind: you'll end up being able to differentiate at all in the end.

I'm not sure where or from whom you're getting this idea that people, in general, are actively trying to be offended.

In the specific context of computing, the change of terminology is driven mostly by nerds from various walks of life taking time to reexamine their biases and thinking, you know, the master/slave relationship has some really unfortunate and negative connotations. Maybe we should change that to more descriptive and accurate terms for each kind of relationship!

You're also conflating "let's maybe not casually use words and concepts that have remarkably negative connotations" (aka making an effort to use more inclusive language) with the concept of dogwhistling, EG: "plague of illegals".

I encourage you to:

1. Chill the gently caress out
2. Re-examine your own biases
3. THink twice before getting more worked up on the subject of inclusive language than anyone else in the thread

# ? Jul 29, 2020 06:06

mllaneza: Apr 28, 2007; Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952

TITTIEKISSER69 posted:

Management / Ability

Just to be a little clearer.

# ? Jul 29, 2020 06:23

Geemer: Nov 4, 2010

Sickening posted:

Like you are giving out racist, bigot vibes in a big way. Just stop.

dragonshardz posted:

I encourage you to:

1. Chill the gently caress out
2. Re-examine your own biases
3. THink twice before getting more worked up on the subject of inclusive language than anyone else in the thread

You're both right and I'm sorry for bringing this poo poo into the thread. I've been pretty stressed lately and it's loving with my mind. Thanks for putting the mirror in front of me.

Sorry if I offended anyone.

# ? Jul 29, 2020 07:17

Moo the cow: Apr 30, 2020

Sickening posted:

Like you are giving out racist, bigot vibes in a big way. Just stop.

That's a hell of an accusation to make and frankly unjustified.

# ? Jul 29, 2020 08:54

Data Graham: Dec 28, 2009; 📈📊🍪😋

Moo the cow posted:

That's a hell of an accusation to make and frankly unjustified.

Evidently not.

Kind of the whole point of bringing it up is to say "hey this kind of attitude is lovely even if you don't realize it, this is a great opportunity to reverse course while you're in a place where the stakes for doing so are low". Would that we all were given those kinds of opportunities at the right time in in our lives/careers and took the chance to back slowly away (meowing)

# ? Jul 29, 2020 11:44

Kyrosiris: May 24, 2006; You try to be happy when everyone is summoning you everywhere to "be their friend".

Ghostlight posted:

maybe you think it's beyond silly to get offended by someone not wanting to type out transmission in full but on the other hand is it really an insurmountable amount of personal effort to put in to avoid using what could be interpreted as a slur toward a marginalised group or even just bring to the mind of that marginalised group memories of that word being used against them in a different context.

No but you see it's very important that they get to save a couple of characters per mention of transmissions.

Who cares about the actual people being horribly murdered in hate crimes all across the world, amirite? :rolleyes:

# ? Jul 29, 2020 12:39

Collateral Damage: Jun 13, 2009

Changing the terminology is good.

My only gripe is that a bunch of tech companies will pat themselves on the back for being so inclusive and taking a stand against racism and then go right back to silently shitcanning any resume they get that says Mohammed or Omar on it.

# ? Jul 29, 2020 12:59

Truga: May 4, 2014; Lipstick Apathy

yeah, we're gonna remove all the bad words from professional cant because it's incredibly easy to do so (despite what chuds might tell you about ~inertia~), but then do absolutely loving nothing to actually fix poo poo. "look we don't say the bad words anymore gimme a break". modern idpol is a liberal conspiracy to distract by pandering via incosequential poo poo and then stab you in the back when nobody's looking

# ? Jul 29, 2020 13:05

BlankSystemDaemon: Mar 13, 2009

Since code is almost always in a state of flux, changing terminology as part of another change - perhaps one that you've been waiting on making because you haven't gotten around to it otherwise - seems like a good option too.

It's certainly what quite a few opensource projects have settled on.

# ? Jul 29, 2020 13:22

aas Bandit: Sep 28, 2001; Oompa Loompa; Nap Ghost

Geemer posted:

You're both right and I'm sorry for bringing this poo poo into the thread. I've been pretty stressed lately and it's loving with my mind. Thanks for putting the mirror in front of me.

Sorry if I offended anyone.

Don't you know you're supposed to freak the gently caress out and "NO U!" and derail the entire goddamn thread for the next five pages, at least? How long have you been on the internet? Weak sauce.

ᶠᵒʳ ʳᵉᵃˡ ᵃʷᵉˢᵒᵐᵉ ʳᵉᵖˡʸ

# ? Jul 29, 2020 13:23

BaseballPCHiker: Jan 16, 2006

Collateral Damage posted:

Changing the terminology is good.

My only gripe is that a bunch of tech companies will pat themselves on the back for being so inclusive and taking a stand against racism and then go right back to silently shitcanning any resume they get that says Mohammed or Omar on it.

Thats my biggest complaint as well. Companies will change terminology and blast the change all over social media congratulating themselves yet fail to hire a single minority or make any meaningful change.

My long battle with Comcast has finally come to an end. Still waiting on an explanation as to why 3 of my sites have been down for a week. Going to rake my rep over the coals for this.

# ? Jul 29, 2020 13:25

Sirotan: Oct 17, 2006; Sirotan is a seal.

Collateral Damage posted:

Changing the terminology is good.

My only gripe is that a bunch of tech companies will pat themselves on the back for being so inclusive and taking a stand against racism and then go right back to silently shitcanning any resume they get that says Mohammed or Omar on it.

Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.

# ? Jul 29, 2020 13:32

Kyrosiris: May 24, 2006; You try to be happy when everyone is summoning you everywhere to "be their friend".

Sirotan posted:

Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.

Furthering that, if the attitudes that created "white = good, always okay; black = bad, never okay" fade away through social pressure and it no longer being "well that's how it's always been" level thought, then real change might come on its heels.

Plus, these sorts of changes are good at getting chuds to reveal themselves. :v:

We actually had some dude go off in a public slack channel about "who even cares, black people don't work in tech" after our CEO announced the formation of an internal change board to look into how to gracefully rename things like whitelist/blacklist, etc.

The group is headed up by a black woman. The announcement came right after one of my teammates who's a black guy got a promotion announced. :v:

(He ended up getting fired after the "hey what the gently caress was that" inquiry ended up with him doubling down on it)

# ? Jul 29, 2020 13:39

Sheep: Jul 24, 2003

BaseballPCHiker posted:

Thats my biggest complaint as well. Companies will change terminology and blast the change all over social media congratulating themselves yet fail to hire a single minority or make any meaningful change.

[Scene: Panicked Boardroom]
CEO: You mean just changing our Twitter logo to include a rainbow background and doing absolutely nothing else of value or merit doesn't satisfy our diversity goals?!

# ? Jul 29, 2020 13:46