Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
«40 »
  • Locked thread
Triticum Guzzler
Jun 16, 2002


1 what loving doctor is recommending dhea to anyone, 2 why are you taking it after the Machida thing

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

sportsgenius86
Jun 17, 2008

THE STREAK IS OVER


the good news is I don't have to watch Jessica Penne fights

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Triticum Guzzler posted:

1 what loving doctor is recommending dhea to anyone, 2 why are you taking it after the Machida thing

BlindSite
Feb 8, 2009



kimbo305 posted:

I'm gonna need a graph showing the relative stupidity of various test/disclosure failures. Jones at the bottom, maybe Machida's DHEA thing next.

IIRC Machida's was pretty funny because he didn't even test hot, just wrote down he was taking a supplement that was banned in 2016 but was legal in 2015. The substance in it that was banned wasn't even at therapeutic levels. The dude dimed himself out for taking nothing.

LobsterMobster
Oct 29, 2009

"I was being quiet and trying to be a good boy but he dialed the right combination to open the throw-down vault and it was on."

"Walter Foxx is ten times brighter than your bulb at the bottom of the tree merry xmas"


Didn't Mirko say he was on HGH after a surgery and didn't even pop for it?

Memento
Aug 25, 2009





Yeah his shoulder was all hosed up and he took a HGH treatment for it. He got tested like the day after and then told the UFC what he had taken, so of course they had to tell USADA. The test came back negative but he was suspended anyway. Then he "retired".

Horse Inspector
Aug 11, 2005
privacy publicly displayed


I've always assumed Cyborg was a Caster Semenya type situation. Has there ever been any stories/tests/indications to that effect?

I.N.R.I
May 26, 2011


Horse Inspector posted:

I've always assumed Cyborg was a Caster Semenya type situation. Has there ever been any stories/tests/indications to that effect?

just speculation, if you ask me thats just the face she was born with. but shes had positive drug test issues in the past so shes not a clean athlete either

LobsterMobster
Oct 29, 2009

"I was being quiet and trying to be a good boy but he dialed the right combination to open the throw-down vault and it was on."

"Walter Foxx is ten times brighter than your bulb at the bottom of the tree merry xmas"


I know it was linked in the OP, but yall, don't forget to vote in the 2017 MMA Awards

Just, you know, make sure to vote for things that happened in 2017, unlike the people that voted for things from UFC 206 and 207, which were back in December 2016.

Also, not to tip things off too much, but uh, Mark Hunt might be in danger of losing Most Favorite Fighter

Memento
Aug 25, 2009





Horse Inspector posted:

I've always assumed Cyborg was a Caster Semenya type situation. Has there ever been any stories/tests/indications to that effect?

She is a 100% biological female who has been on steroids for a very very long time and she now looks the way she does as a result, and has the resultant advantages in strength and body composition. She's probably clean now, but she's not "clean".

LobsterMobster posted:

Also, not to tip things off too much, but uh, Mark Hunt might be in danger of losing Most Favorite Fighter

loving WHAT

Burn it all down, salt the earth so nothing grows again

ClumsyThief
Sep 11, 2001



I don't think there's ever been the kind of gender testing Semenya went through done in prize fighting. Seems to be limited to organized international events and MMA is probably too decentralized.

Cyborg just looks and sounds like a woman who has used steroids for a long time. Correia has pretty similar facial features so maybe it's a somewhat common look with Brazilian women.

Soothing Vapors
Mar 26, 2006

plz control u toxic hatsculinity



Horse Inspector posted:

I've always assumed Cyborg was a Caster Semenya type situation. Has there ever been any stories/tests/indications to that effect?

if you google old photos of Cyborg she looked like a normal human woman, coincidentally before she developed the musculature of a young grizzly

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Soothing Vapors posted:

if you google old photos of Cyborg she looked like a normal human woman, coincidentally before she developed the musculature of a young grizzly

Gay Horney
Feb 9, 2013


I don't mean to be insensitive but was there really a loving transgender named semenya

I.N.R.I
May 26, 2011


Gay Horney posted:

I don't mean to be insensitive but was there really a loving transgender named semenya

semenya is a regular woman, shes an african runner. and probably squeaky clean too since all the scrutiny on her led to nothing

ClumsyThief
Sep 11, 2001



Gay Horney posted:

I don't mean to be insensitive but was there really a loving transgender named semenya

When the governing bodies realized it wasn't a dude they started implying that they were checking for conditions that might provide an unfair advantage, whatever that means. I assume it was back pedaling since they publicly accused her of being a dude. Also yeah the name is pretty unfortunate.

tesilential
Nov 22, 2004

You're a credit to your community!

This thread 2 days ago: “Conor is a horrible trash talker”

This thread a year ago: “omg domick cruz is an amazing trash talker”

Triticum Guzzler
Jun 16, 2002



here's another

Fat Twitter Man
Jan 24, 2007

by R. Guyovich


tesilential posted:

This thread 2 days ago: “Conor is a horrible trash talker”

This thread a year ago: “omg domick cruz is an amazing trash talker”

hard to believe this forum would love a smug nerd and dislike a successful popular guy

El Roncho
Oct 15, 2006

I'm not necessarily proud of this but I'm gonna leave it here anyways.

Dom has far better posture.

Byolante
Mar 23, 2008



The Caster Semenya of womens mma is Gabi Garcia though.

Josuke Higashikata
Mar 7, 2013

No need to apologise when I am right, like usual.





I.N.R.I posted:

semenya is a regular woman, shes an african runner. and probably squeaky clean too since all the scrutiny on her led to nothing

If you look at the history of Caster Semenya's best times in her preferred sports, she's not even close to running women's world records so she's not exactly running faster than any woman could ever physically do naturally and it's not like she's Florence Griffith Joyner whose world record is magnitudes faster than any woman has ever run since so she's not juiced to gills either (FloJo never popped but lol if you think she was clean).


People just called Caster Semenya a dude because she's not especially attractive and she dusted people and people are spiteful.

Brown Paper Bag
Nov 3, 2012



UFC 221 card...



Marching Powder
Mar 8, 2008

duckin 4 cover lol. u don't get to see the good fight b*tch



Brown Paper Bag posted:

UFC 221 card...





this would be a legit excellent fight night card. as it is it's only a pretty bad ppv card. looking forward to ben 10, horny guy, volkanovski, the obese guys, and whittaker / rockhold.

Ratios and Tendency
Apr 23, 2010

MURALI



Main card looks entertaining to me.

Memento
Aug 25, 2009





No Kai Kara-France, that's a shame. He's been campaigning for another UFC fight. I think he's 3-1 since he was on TUF

Horse Inspector
Aug 11, 2005
privacy publicly displayed


I.N.R.I posted:

semenya is a regular woman, shes an african runner. and probably squeaky clean too since all the scrutiny on her led to nothing


Josuke Higashikata posted:

If you look at the history of Caster Semenya's best times in her preferred sports, she's not even close to running women's world records so she's not exactly running faster than any woman could ever physically do naturally and it's not like she's Florence Griffith Joyner whose world record is magnitudes faster than any woman has ever run since so she's not juiced to gills either (FloJo never popped but lol if you think she was clean).


People just called Caster Semenya a dude because she's not especially attractive and she dusted people and people are spiteful.

I might be remembering some of this incorrectly and Triticum probably has a much better understanding, but as I understand it this isn't quite true. Semenya was running ridiculous times and destroying the field which why people questioned her in the first place. It turns out Semenya has hyperandrogenism, which basically means she is a woman but with some male characteristics, in this case huge (naturally occurring) testosterone levels.

The IAAF decided this was an unfair advantage and eventually allowed her to compete, but only if she took medication that suppressed her testosterone levels. After this her times fell off dramatically. However, another athlete affected by the ruling brought a court case and it was overturned due to a lack of scientific evidence on the effects of testosterone on performance.

What happened after that? She ran a new national record on way to Olympic gold. Looking up some articles on this just now it seems consensus is that its a huge advantage and pretty much impossible to overcome unless you have hyperandrogenism too. I have no idea if any of this is related to Cyborg which is why I asked if anything had been revealed, but to say there's nothing to Semenya's situation isn't accurate, and it might be something the ufc needs to consider. After all this is a sport more than any other that abnormal testosterone could have a huge effect.


Edit: The phrase "lack of scientific evidence" reads like it answers this situation, so I'll just clarify. It's generally accepted that there is an effect, it just hasn't been documented yet. I assume that studies are being done now to fill this gap, but I don't personally know enough about it.

Horse Inspector fucked around with this message at Jan 6, 2018 around 09:16

Triticum Guzzler
Jun 16, 2002


Horse Inspector posted:

I might be remembering some of this incorrectly and Triticum probably has a much better understanding

I don't really, last I heard about Caster Semenya was when they did a gender test on her and the results leaked during an event. I don't like to touch the gender in sports stuff because there are no good answers, everyone gets pissed off, and I haven't done medical genetics in like 5 years so I can't sound smart about it. Enforcing gender testing is a minefield because there's ethical concerns about either looking at tons of dicks and pussies or using people's genetic information. What do you do with someone with some kind of sex chromosome mosaicism? If you put them in with men they'll get their asses kicked, but they'll probably have a natural physical advantage over most women and if someone leaks that information then you gently caress with their life and career in a pretty fundamental way.

The more recent push for there to be some kind of objective testosterone demarcations is even worse imo, because it's fuelling this weird feedback loop where web site guys with skin in the game regarding transgender athletes post the IOC regulations as some kind of definitive proof that the science has been done. It hasn't and couldn't possibly be yet, and there are major questions that need to be answered about the longitudinal effects of testosterone on muscle development in humans and thousands of other issues. The IOC's goal is to be inclusive and cover their asses a bit in the process, it's not some objective truth. If there's ever an actually good intersex or transgender combat sports then the whole song and dance gets done again.

Of course none of this has anything to do with Cris Cyborg, who is just a cowardly woman that has been taking insane amounts of steroids for years.

I.N.R.I
May 26, 2011


Horse Inspector posted:

I might be remembering some of this incorrectly and Triticum probably has a much better understanding, but as I understand it this isn't quite true. Semenya was running ridiculous times and destroying the field which why people questioned her in the first place. It turns out Semenya has hyperandrogenism, which basically means she is a woman but with some male characteristics, in this case huge (naturally occurring) testosterone levels.

The IAAF decided this was an unfair advantage and eventually allowed her to compete, but only if she took medication that suppressed her testosterone levels. After this her times fell off dramatically. However, another athlete affected by the ruling brought a court case and it was overturned due to a lack of scientific evidence on the effects of testosterone on performance.

What happened after that? She ran a new national record on way to Olympic gold. Looking up some articles on this just now it seems consensus is that its a huge advantage and pretty much impossible to overcome unless you have hyperandrogenism too. I have no idea if any of this is related to Cyborg which is why I asked if anything had been revealed, but to say there's nothing to Semenya's situation isn't accurate, and it might be something the ufc needs to consider. After all this is a sport more than any other that abnormal testosterone could have a huge effect.


Edit: The phrase "lack of scientific evidence" reads like it answers this situation, so I'll just clarify. It's generally accepted that there is an effect, it just hasn't been documented yet. I assume that studies are being done now to fill this gap, but I don't personally know enough about it.

one small point to make about testosterone is that there are more than a few male pro athletes who compete with testosterone levels around the levels you can expect to find in the average woman, and vice versa .. in other words, the genders overlap in that respect. but nobody talks about making men with abnormally low t compete with women, and for good reason ... its not the only factor in athletic performance. its true that high t has some benefits but there isnt a physical gift a human can have that cant be leveraged one way or another to improve sporting ability, though isnt that one of the appealing things about sport?

Horse Inspector
Aug 11, 2005
privacy publicly displayed


I agree with both of the above, there aren't any good answers and I certainly don't know enough about potential pros/cons. My original question was really just whether cyborg had been diagnosed with hyperandrogenism, and the summary I take from responses is basically no, she's just done tonnes of 'roids. So I accept my assumption was wrong on that.

In having a read about it a little I saw the point made that people aren't banned for having advantageous limb sizes, so why should a different kind of genetic benefit be banned? It's a fair question and it made me think that in athletics the requirements are just to be the right gender and then run as best you can. Combat sports differ a little by trying to level the field with weight classes, if someone is very tall for the weight class, they might have reach but lose out in some strength and base to a stockier fighter. In theory you have a trade off (weight cutting distorts this in practice), so would hyperandrogenism even have a massive effect in wmma? Or would weight classes mean that women end up with reasonable peers anyway?

Probably a question only a expert in the field can answer with accuracy, I wonder if the issue will ever rear it's head properly in the ufc.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




I.N.R.I posted:

one small point to make about testosterone is that there are more than a few male pro athletes who compete with testosterone levels around the levels you can expect to find in the average woman, and vice versa .. in other words, the genders overlap in that respect. but nobody talks about making men with abnormally low t compete with women, and for good reason ... its not the only factor in athletic performance. its true that high t has some benefits but there isnt a physical gift a human can have that cant be leveraged one way or another to improve sporting ability, though isnt that one of the appealing things about sport?

And sometimes that physical gift will backfire on the athlete after it took him to the top. Jon Jones has freakishly long arms, and near psychopathic levels of self-confidence which led to his aggression. Then that level of psychopathic self confidence led him to act like a loving idiot and get his belt stripped three times, while his long arms allowed him to reach his bag of money and weed where a normal light heavyweight wouldn't even attempt the manouvre.

Also steroids.

Work Friend Keven
Oct 24, 2015

I'M A BIG STUPID IDIOT WHO GETS TRIGGERED FROM THE WORDS SPORTS BALL AND HAS SHIT OPINIONS ABOUT CARD GAMES. ALSO I SAID I WAS GOING TO QUIT HEARTHSTONE OUT OF SPITE OF A TAIWANESE WINNING THE CHAMPIONSHIP SO REPORT ME IF YOU SEE ME POST IN A HS THREAD


Inri is against every drug in sports except for test, the one that works best and is the cheapest. Interesting................................................. wonder how many motors he's got in his bike,

I.N.R.I
May 26, 2011


Work Friend Keven posted:

Inri is against every drug in sports except for test, the one that works best and is the cheapest. Interesting................................................. wonder how many motors he's got in his bike,

i just have regular t levels and the motor in my bike isnt even that powerful .. but im on the side of athletes that have weird and unusual genetics cos they get endless poo poo from all sides and if it was just regular life they would maybe be thought of as having been given a bad hand by god. but in sport they get to shine a little

handsome only face
Apr 22, 2010

Cockroach went out of the room in anger. And roach's go to empty room...

Cockroache's Anarchist




Brown Paper Bag posted:

UFC 221 card...





surprised Ross Pearson still has a job

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him


Brown Paper Bag posted:

UFC 221 card...



I'm the Chinese fighter labeled by first name.

Nierbo
Dec 4, 2010


Whittacker and rockhold getting screwed here

evobatman
Jul 30, 2006

it means nothing, but says everything!



The injury rate at AKA just wasn't good enough, so they are trying out some new techniques.

Triticum Guzzler
Jun 16, 2002


levitation seems like a pretty low impact exercise to me. lay off

woozy pawsies
Nov 26, 2007



making people walk around luke rockhold as he bounces on his bouncy ball

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Lid
Feb 18, 2005

Rap terrorist, terrorise, tear it up
Brought gas and the matches to flare it up
Militant Michael might go psycho
On any ally or rival
Born Black, that's dead on arrival
My job is to fight for survival
In spite of these #AllLivesMatter-ass white folk


https://twitter.com/oneunderscore__...386914284670977

  • Locked thread
«40 »