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Basticle
Sep 12, 2011



https://streamable.com/b4to7

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Almost Honest
Aug 17, 2009



Lmao

Thief
Jan 28, 2011




SpazmasterX
Jul 13, 2006

Wrong about everything XIV related
~fartz~



Wooper
Oct 16, 2006

Champion draGoon horse slayer. Making Lancers weep for their horsies since 2011. Viva Dickbutt.


The Twich change is ridiculously unwarranted but if makes her stop just sitting in spawn for most of the round, I welcome it somewhat.

People have already covered the non-nerf to Ela, but those concussion changes. I already think the stuns do mostly nothing and they are nerfing them further. What about Zofia? She is just slow Ash with some stun grenades that do even less now.

Gu timer being lowered is welcome. Capitãos only use used to be a high damage rifle since his gadget is so useless, so I'm glad they are reversing the nerf to its damage.

Major Isoor
Mar 23, 2011



Nice title change! And yeah, I'm actually pretty OK with the Twitch and Bandit changes, personally. In fact, I'd kinda like to see Bandit's electrified wire be slightly weaker against drones, again. (Haven't played in at least 6-9 months, up until the last week or so) I mean, I don't want it to be as weak as it was originally, but I think that immediately destroying drones seems like a bit much.

Also, as someone who has just come back to the game after a hiatus (as mentioned above) losing yacht and favela in exchange for theme park stings a bit. I really dislike the fact that it seems that they've been removed those from casual mode of all things, too!

Cup Runneth Over
Aug 8, 2009

She said life's
too short to worry
She said life's
too long to wait
It's too short not
to love everybody
Life's too long to hate



Hope you guys like the new title I requested

my kinda ape
Sep 15, 2008

Everything's gonna be A-OK


Hair Elf

New title is Good.

Lemon-Lime
Aug 6, 2009


30 taser shots was nuts on Twitch so the change is welcome, but they need to address the two problems with the drone first: 1) it's made of loving paper and dies if the enemy so much as sneezes in its direction; 2) it's possible to miss shots that look like they're in range.

#2 is easy to fix (just make the crosshair go yellow or whatever when over a gadget, like it goes red over enemies). Not sure what they could do with #1.

The conc change is welcome because conc was absolutely loving nuts, but 40 rounds. Her magazine size needs to be 30 and she needs way more recoil.

Cup Runneth Over
Aug 8, 2009

She said life's
too short to worry
She said life's
too long to wait
It's too short not
to love everybody
Life's too long to hate



30 shots wasn't nuts because it allowed her to harass defenders and miss shots on moving targets. The Twitch drones are completely useless for harassment now. You couldn't even come close to downing someone unless they're super low, even if they just stand still and let you zap them. And given you have no way to tell ops' health aside from killcams, why would you ever waste your precious darts on people?

You probably won't even see her drones now until they're already out of darts. They'll just be fat normal drones that can't jump.

Wooper
Oct 16, 2006

Champion draGoon horse slayer. Making Lancers weep for their horsies since 2011. Viva Dickbutt.


There is no way to use 30 charges unless you are playing against 5 people who are AFK.

Deltasquid
Apr 10, 2013

awww...
you guys made me ink!


THUNDERDOME


I used 30 charges by gratuitously missing.

Anyway 5 charges is fine but make them do 15 damage instead of 10. 10 seems low with how few you have and 20 seems too high but 15 at least makes a pot shot a risk/reward worth taking or at least considering if you've popped the jammers or batteries.

Krogort
Oct 27, 2013


Cup Runneth Over posted:

30 shots wasn't nuts because it allowed her to harass defenders and miss shots on moving targets. The Twitch drones are completely useless for harassment now. You couldn't even come close to downing someone unless they're super low, even if they just stand still and let you zap them. And given you have no way to tell ops' health aside from killcams, why would you ever waste your precious darts on people?

You probably won't even see her drones now until they're already out of darts. They'll just be fat normal drones that can't jump.

They are still invisible drones if you have the elite skin.

Jack Trades
Nov 30, 2010



"In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phony god's blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my superior intelligence."
- Me



ZeusCannon
Nov 5, 2009

BLAAAAAARGH PLEASE KILL ME BLAAAAAAAARGH

Grimey Drawer

New person question. Do the bundle skins go away at end of year? Like the monolith and broadway and what not?

Deltasquid
Apr 10, 2013

awww...
you guys made me ink!


THUNDERDOME


ZeusCannon posted:

New person question. Do the bundle skins go away at end of year? Like the monolith and broadway and what not?

I don't know which bundles you're talking about but generally speaking bundles and skins you purchase are unlimited in time once you buy them. Seasonal weapon skins, for example, apply to every gun in the game at the time of purchase, forever, but the devs don't bother making that same skin for future guns.

Basticle
Sep 12, 2011



Jack Trades
Nov 30, 2010



"In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phony god's blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my superior intelligence."
- Me



That's me ^
I'm hoping that while I'm placing that second reinforcement you'll decide for me where my second one should go.
So I don't have to think for myself.

Agoat
Dec 4, 2012


Lipstick Apathy

lol

Penpal
Apr 6, 2009


I think the answer to nerfing ela is lowering her total ammo pool from like 250 + the mag at the beginning of the round to 150 or so rounds plus the mag, that way you may have to actually think about dumping 40 rounds at a time. Right now you can pretty much just go ham like a machine gun at every corner you come across. Also you can totally demolish a barricaded door/window and still have 30 bullets left to merk the op on the other side. Also it would mean you would sometimes have to rely on her sidearm with a red-dot, which is unique to her so I think that works out kinda

I got opinions about operators up in here

ZeusCannon
Nov 5, 2009

BLAAAAAARGH PLEASE KILL ME BLAAAAAAAARGH

Grimey Drawer

To clarify those are the pistol skins i mentioned are the ones that come with the posh and dignified etc bundles. I dont want to have a steampunk thatcher but i like the artdeco style skin for the pistol so im debating saving towards them with renown but if they are gonna disappear soon i wont bother.

Jehde
Apr 20, 2010



Grimey Drawer

Jack Trades posted:

That's me ^
I'm hoping that while I'm placing that second reinforcement you'll decide for me where my second one should go.
So I don't have to think for myself.

I like to pick Rook, drop my armour as soon as I spawn, put my reinforcements up next to other players', then go sit in a corner and wait to die.

Donnerberg
Dec 15, 2008



Hell Gem


This, but with a black mirror. Defenders pops out of the woodwork to reinforce adjacent peek holes.

I can't get anything done during the setup phase as Mira because I have to stand in front of the wall I want un-reinforced to protect it from well meaning randoms. It isn't even at the site. Defenders come barging in from across the map to "help".

Donnerberg fucked around with this message at Jan 11, 2018 around 18:22

Danknificent
Nov 20, 2015

Jinkies! Looks like we've got a mystery on our hands.


Jehde posted:

I like to pick Rook, drop my armour as soon as I spawn, put my reinforcements up next to other players', then go sit in a corner and wait to die.

checks out

keyframe
Sep 15, 2007

I have seen things


This is my biggest pet peeve in this game.

The Duggler
Feb 20, 2011

I do not hear you, I do not see you, I will not let you get into the Duggler's head with your bring-downs.


Penpal posted:

I think the answer to nerfing ela is lowering her total ammo pool from like 250 + the mag at the beginning of the round to 150 or so rounds plus the mag, that way you may have to actually think about dumping 40 rounds at a time. Right now you can pretty much just go ham like a machine gun at every corner you come across. Also you can totally demolish a barricaded door/window and still have 30 bullets left to merk the op on the other side. Also it would mean you would sometimes have to rely on her sidearm with a red-dot, which is unique to her so I think that works out kinda

I got opinions about operators up in here

This is a really good idea so it will never happen

keyframe
Sep 15, 2007

I have seen things

Donnerberg posted:

This, but with a black mirror. Defenders pops out of the woodwork to reinforce adjacent peek holes.

I can't get anything done during the setup phase as Mira because I have to stand in front of the wall I want un-reinforced to protect it from well meaning randoms. It isn't even at the site. Defenders come barging in from across the map to "help".

Yea I gave up on this and now I put two miras next to each other on reinforced walls and open one up right away to shoot from.

Perestroika
Apr 8, 2010



Donnerberg posted:

This, but with a black mirror. Defenders pops out of the woodwork to reinforce adjacent peek holes.

I can't get anything done during the setup phase as Mira because I have to stand in front of the wall I want un-reinforced to protect it from well meaning randoms. It isn't even at the site. Defenders come barging in from across the map to "help".

Yeah, I've been that pubbie more than a few times. Though in our defense, it seems like each Mira has her own preferences on how and where to combo windows and reinforcements. Some want it all reinforced (and a guy extensively bitched at us for not reinforcing the particular wall he wanted) and use the mirrors only on wholly reinforced walls for information gathering. Others like to have it on a reinforced wall next to a bare one for a quick strafe and shoot. Still others actually put the thing on a bare wall with reinforced ones adjacent to shoot directly above/below it. You never really know going in.

ZeusCannon
Nov 5, 2009

BLAAAAAARGH PLEASE KILL ME BLAAAAAAAARGH

Grimey Drawer

So barring pure luck is there anyway to force pubbies not to reinforce the drat kids room in house.

Also yeah the few maps where i know where to reinforce are few and far between. I tend to prioritize ceiling hatches simply because so many people forget them. But even then i might be loving it up for someone who wants to quickly reposition.

I do wish i could put a mira on a floor hatch i can see uses for that.

Cup Runneth Over
Aug 8, 2009

She said life's
too short to worry
She said life's
too long to wait
It's too short not
to love everybody
Life's too long to hate



ZeusCannon posted:

So barring pure luck is there anyway to force pubbies not to reinforce the drat kids room in house.

Play Caveira and down them when they try

tjones
May 13, 2005


Immediately waste a c4 or impact and hope they get the idea. Shoot them in the foot if they continue to try.

It happens to me more on kitchen bomb obj on chalet for the kitchen/trophy wall and tilts me every time.

Jack Trades
Nov 30, 2010



"In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phony god's blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my superior intelligence."
- Me



ZeusCannon posted:

So barring pure luck is there anyway to force pubbies not to reinforce the drat kids room in house.

Have you tried using words?
Preferably explaining why it's a bad idea.

Donnerberg
Dec 15, 2008



Hell Gem

That's more impractical than shooting them because you'd either have to start explaining at the start of every single match, or scream as soon as the walls start coming up and hope they understand the words "please stop".

Jack Trades
Nov 30, 2010



"In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phony god's blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my superior intelligence."
- Me



Donnerberg posted:

That's more impractical than shooting them because you'd either have to start explaining at the start of every single match, or scream as soon as the walls start coming up and hope they understand the words "please stop".

Meanwhile a teamkilling will definitely make them understand exactly what you want and what they're doing wrong.

Party Plane Jones
Jul 1, 2007

BORN TO MOD
USPOL IS A FUCK
Onigami Toxx Em All 2019
I am party plane jones
410,747,864,530 PERMABANNED SHITPOSTERS





Fun Shoe



Good job ubi

Donnerberg
Dec 15, 2008



Hell Gem

Jack Trades posted:

Meanwhile a teamkilling will definitely make them understand exactly what you want and what they're doing wrong.

There's time to explain while they're on the floor, before you pick them up. I'm not saying it's a good system, but it stops the wall.

I prefer standing in front of the wall for 45 secs though. They're in such a rush to enforce the first thing they see, they'll usually be out of reinforcements when the round starts for real.

Deltasquid
Apr 10, 2013

awww...
you guys made me ink!


THUNDERDOME


ZeusCannon posted:

To clarify those are the pistol skins i mentioned are the ones that come with the posh and dignified etc bundles. I dont want to have a steampunk thatcher but i like the artdeco style skin for the pistol so im debating saving towards them with renown but if they are gonna disappear soon i wont bother.

They're permanent if you buy them. The window to purchase itself might be time-limited but I don't think they do that except with explicitly marked seasonal skins. However, I think you should have a look under at the weapon and then under the skins tab whether they sell the gun skin individually. It might be half the price of the total bundle or w/e, but if you only care about the weapon skin it'll save you some grinding.

Duplicate
Jul 7, 2007
Lucky me.

Donnerberg posted:

There's time to explain while they're on the floor, before you pick them up. I'm not saying it's a good system, but it stops the wall.

I prefer standing in front of the wall for 45 secs though. They're in such a rush to enforce the first thing they see, they'll usually be out of reinforcements when the round starts for real.

While we're on the topic, could someone explain to me why reinforcing the kids room is bad? I'm new enough at the game that I've heard this before, but I don't know why this causes problems.

I don't actually know anything about what wall to reinforce or not reinforce other than not blocking walls between the two bomb sites (presumably because it makes it harder to cover both of them at the same time). Are there any rules-of-thumb that should be more widely known?

tjones
May 13, 2005


Small room with windows on three sides. If they peek or hop in with the walls up you won't be able to tell until they are already in. It also limits your collapse points to a single door way, of which they have cover in the stairwell side corner or prone behind the bed.

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Deltasquid
Apr 10, 2013

awww...
you guys made me ink!


THUNDERDOME


Duplicate posted:

While we're on the topic, could someone explain to me why reinforcing the kids room is bad? I'm new enough at the game that I've heard this before, but I don't know why this causes problems.

I don't actually know anything about what wall to reinforce or not reinforce other than not blocking walls between the two bomb sites (presumably because it makes it harder to cover both of them at the same time). Are there any rules-of-thumb that should be more widely known?

The rules of thumb is a bit complicated but generally speaking, don't reinforce a room if that makes it harder for the defenders to "reconquer" it if the attackers take it, compared to the effort of the attackers taking it themselves. applied to kids' bedroom: the only ways in are via the closet, the corridor or the outside windows. The attackers almost always go in via the outside windows, so the defenders are better off opening up as many firing holes into kids' bedroom from e.g. the workshop and the master bedroom. By doing this you're making it a death trap for the attackers to plant or capture, while being in a defensible spot yourself, and if they do end up planting, you can easily reconquer it through the many holes in the walls.

Another example of this principle is on Chalet, if you're protecting an objective in the kitchen: locking off the wall between kitchen and trophy room is tempting, but the kitchen itself is actually fairly hard to hold because the attackers can always shoot you from the long window there. A lot of people prefer opening up that wall and protecting the trophy room as well by planting an anchoring operator there, who watches the window into the trophy room. Should he die or the kitchen be conquered, the defenders can still easily regroup and go for a counter-attack without being obstructed by their own reinforcements.

EDIT: this is also why you should always reinforce exterior walls of your objective. It poses 0 problems for the defenders, reconquering-wise, because you basically never attack the objective room from the outside as a defender, while greatly hindering the attackers by denying them another angle of attack. All things being equal, you should also reinforce walls that have no doors, because again you are denying a venue of attack. If the attackers open up a wall right next to a door, that's kind of annoying but you can cover both at once as a defender. If they open a wall behind you, a hatch above you and the door in front of you, that's 3 angles to cover while you only have one set of eyes and ears.

so if I were to make a list I would put these priorities:

1) reinforce exterior walls and hatches above the objective (hatches under the objective depends per specific hatch, but usually defenders want to be able to jump down and flank. If the objective room is really cramped like chalet's bar, then reinforce it because attackers chucking grenades through the hatch from below is a bad time)
2) open up walls between two bomb sites if it's bomb
3) don't reinforce walls that you know should be open (e.g. kids bedroom, chalet trophy room, the closet in oregon basement) This comes with experience
4) reinforce walls that don't have a door
5) reinforce walls that have a door

Also in some fringe cases you have walls that lead directly into a closet or bathroom or whatever. If you think you can have a defender hold the room adjacent to objective, don't reinforce between these two rooms but rather einforce the adjacent room and put a rotation hole in there. As a newbie you shouldn't be concerned with this, but e.g. on consulate there is a spot on the upper floors where people break the wall between the bathroom and the objective room and reinforce the walls in the bathroom instead, so they can have a defender protect from the bathroom with an easy way into objective room. If you reinforced the walls between the bathroom and objective, that makes it hard for a defender to sit on that spot and cover the hallway. But again, don't really care about this until you've seen somebody do it succesfully.

Deltasquid fucked around with this message at Jan 11, 2018 around 20:14

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