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Giedroyc
Feb 18, 2001

ouch...

I stopped watching Chikara (and all wrestling) in 2010/11 when the BDK angle bored me senseless. It seemed the spirit of the company died when Hydra retired.

However, using the free trial I'm liking 2012 so far with Touchdown/Archie and the ants/swarm stuff.

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Mel Mudkiper
Jan 19, 2012

This is cyber bulling and I will not stand for it.


Chikara was at a high point for me before the weird rear end closing angle and I don't think they ever completely recovered

My Lovely Horse
Aug 21, 2010



I think losing Claudio, Sara and Brodie (and who else?) to WWE, and Delirious to ROH, hurt them the most. BDK was pretty great in my book, but once that angle ended nothing they did really ever jumped out at me again. Now all the guys I initially liked are gone from the company save for Hallowicked, and having a KoT without him feels like he might be on his way out too.

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


Mel Mudkiper posted:

Chikara was at a high point for me before the weird rear end closing angle and I don't think they ever completely recovered

Kind of wonder how that whole thing will come across to Giedroyc, since he gets to skip that whole year. The post-Ashes stuff wasn't bad at all, but it just didn't make up for that long stretch of nothing.

coconono
Aug 11, 2004

I bet against K-1


I thought from an artistic standpoint, Ashes was really cool but they could have done up a graphic novel and gotten the same effect.

Mel Mudkiper
Jan 19, 2012

This is cyber bulling and I will not stand for it.


I am still not entirely convinced Ashes wasnt an attempt to retcon Chikara legitimately going out of business

Giedroyc
Feb 18, 2001

ouch...

Gavok posted:

Kind of wonder how that whole thing will come across to Giedroyc, since he gets to skip that whole year. The post-Ashes stuff wasn't bad at all, but it just didn't make up for that long stretch of nothing.

Probably take a few weeks to get to that era. I don't think it's really fair to purely blame BDK for me losing interest, at the same time Larry Sweeney (who was amazing and died way too soon)/Mitch Ryder vanished who were a big part of my enjoyment in the late 2000s.

It was probably burn out as I'd been watching since ditch (whatever happened to him?) linked the 2nd or so cibernetico on his site way back.

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

Band-aids don't fix arrow wounds


The BDK angle was the culmination of almost every Chikara dangling thread at the time, so it was a hell of a ride getting into the show around that time -- I think I caught on about 6 months before the reveal started. The biggest thing that derailed CHIKARA was losing all their major players between the middle/end of the BDK story and the nail in the coffin was right when the 12 Large tournament started and they lost almost everyone that was left.

Cory Lidle
Oct 12, 2006


My Lovely Horse posted:

I think losing Claudio, Sara and Brodie (and who else?) to WWE, and Delirious to ROH, hurt them the most. BDK was pretty great in my book, but once that angle ended nothing they did really ever jumped out at me again. Now all the guys I initially liked are gone from the company save for Hallowicked, and having a KoT without him feels like he might be on his way out too.
#LegionOfRotIsFine

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


coconono posted:

I thought from an artistic standpoint, Ashes was really cool but they could have done up a graphic novel and gotten the same effect.

Pretty much. There was a lot of it I really liked and I respect the ambition, but it by no means should have been a year long thing. 8-9 months at most.

One of the best things I can say about it is that, inadvertently, it ended up being a great thesis on how important the balance of wrestling and storylines are. They did a year of decent wrestling shows with minimal story (the Wrestling Is stuff) while doing a decent story with no wrestling. Neither worked and therein lies the lesson.

BetterWeirdthanDead
Mar 7, 2006

Ask me why I really
went to see Terminator


Dunkerton still wrestles as Dunkerton, so is him not wrestling with Chikara another weird thing with Quack?

El Gallinero Gros
Mar 17, 2010


BetterWeirdthanDead posted:

Dunkerton still wrestles as Dunkerton, so is him not wrestling with Chikara another weird thing with Quack?

He wrestles in Europe a lot, so I think it's a case of him wanting to branch out rather than anything personal. Although I could see Quack having a problem with the convict character Dunk was doing in Corgan's old company.

syzpid
Aug 9, 2014


BetterWeirdthanDead posted:

Dunkerton still wrestles as Dunkerton, so is him not wrestling with Chikara another weird thing with Quack?

I believe he got the "I have nothing for you" treatment from Quack after the whole storyline with FIST played out. But it was also at the time Quack stopped having a lot of the out of towners come in, so that was probably part of it too.

Chris James 2
Aug 9, 2012

plz remember that it was ~ME~ who told you that everything you like is actually really not good, because I knew all along.


Mel Mudkiper posted:

Chikara was at a high point for me before the weird rear end closing angle and I don't think they ever completely recovered

Same here. Right when I finally tried to get back into it is when the current Juan Francisco never-ending reign started and I got kinda cold on it again

Mel Mudkiper
Jan 19, 2012

This is cyber bulling and I will not stand for it.


Chris James 2 posted:

Same here. Right when I finally tried to get back into it is when the current Juan Francisco never-ending reign started and I got kinda cold on it again

Yeah I really like JFDC but his reign has been really rough

I also think the revolving door of the current roster is really alienating. I get that they are returning to Chikara being a "showcase" for the wrestling school like the very beginning , but it feels like they end up showing off a lot of guys who aren't really serious or dedicated and leave after only a few matches

Oh god it just occurred to me JFDC is the male Carmella

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


syzpid posted:

I believe he got the "I have nothing for you" treatment from Quack after the whole storyline with FIST played out. But it was also at the time Quack stopped having a lot of the out of towners come in, so that was probably part of it too.

That sounds about right. Dunkerton and Gargano were intentionally written out right before Ashes happened. That way they had no role in the death and return storyline because they already washed their hands of the company.

To be fair, post-Ashes Chikara had an excessive roster.

Mel Mudkiper posted:

Yeah I really like JFDC but his reign has been really rough

I also think the revolving door of the current roster is really alienating. I get that they are returning to Chikara being a "showcase" for the wrestling school like the very beginning , but it feels like they end up showing off a lot of guys who aren't really serious or dedicated and leave after only a few matches

Oh god it just occurred to me JFDC is the male Carmella

The booking of Chikara's heels is kind of off right now. JFDC is overpushed and less interesting than his peers. Whisper and Blank are underpushed. Hallowicked and Frightmare have hit a wall as villains. Oceanea's out of the picture, which takes the wind out of Merlok's sails. The best balance in booking as it is right now is FIST. Well, Proteus Wheel too, but they're just monsters of the week.

Something of note mentioned in the indie thread: Merlok has been wrestling since before Chikara existed. Yikes.

coconono
Aug 11, 2004

I bet against K-1


Merlok reminds me of Escorpion Egipcio but I'm sure they're not the same person.

Still trying to figure out how Boomer Hatfield is.

Dangerous Person
Apr 4, 2011

Not dead yet

What happened to Oceanea?

Cory Lidle
Oct 12, 2006


Oceanea will be back after Trios. She pulled off the show that was going to establish her KOT team to do the ROH camp (lol WOH).

Side note: Ashley and Solo will be very involved in the Progress US tour starting today.

TV Zombie
Sep 6, 2011

Once you Whee-in, You can't Whee-out


Dinosaur Gum

Now when you say wash hands from the company, there was an amicable split from Chikara and Dunkerton/Gargano? I hope that's the case so I won't stop wondering why people leave Chikara on bad terms.

I'm watching Merlok's match with Delmi Exo and his body shape reminds me of a slimmer Crossbones.

EugeneJ
Feb 5, 2012

It's OK to beat your wife if she's drunk


TV Zombie posted:

Now when you say wash hands from the company, there was an amicable split from Chikara and Dunkerton/Gargano? I hope that's the case so I won't stop wondering why people leave Chikara on bad terms.

Quack is an uber-sperg and if you're a wrestler who starts with him but then finds out you can make more than $30/night elsewhere he'll find some reason to fire you

Usually the "reason" is that you desecrated the character that he created for you somehow by not keeping it aligned with his vision for the CHIKARA Comic Universe or whatever the gently caress

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


TV Zombie posted:

Now when you say wash hands from the company, there was an amicable split from Chikara and Dunkerton/Gargano? I hope that's the case so I won't stop wondering why people leave Chikara on bad terms.

I meant in the kayfabe sense. The storyline was that Dunkerton was forced to be part of FIST and it wasn't working out because he was an honorable face and FIST was made up of heels. Eventually, Icarus started to realize that he and Dunkerton had good chemistry as a team and started defending him. Gargano got fed up and quit Chikara, Chuck Taylor just shrugged and did his own thing and Dunkerton also quit the company because Icarus was trying to help him out in matches via cheating. That transitioned into Icarus' face turn and role as the main guy trying to bring Chikara back from the grave.

In the end, they were probably written off because Quack didn't have anything for them. His roster for the Ashes-era stuff was bloated as hell already. Gargano did eventually come back for King of Trios one year, but Dunkerton hasn't been seen since, so there very well could be some bad feelings from that situation.

Meanwhile, Tim Donst was another guy written off around that time and his split from the company comes off as amicable. He's defended them in recent history and has said that he'd go back with the right storyline.

DM Punk
Aug 24, 2004


Gavok posted:

I meant in the kayfabe sense. The storyline was that Dunkerton was forced to be part of FIST and it wasn't working out because he was an honorable face and FIST was made up of heels. Eventually, Icarus started to realize that he and Dunkerton had good chemistry as a team and started defending him. Gargano got fed up and quit Chikara, Chuck Taylor just shrugged and did his own thing and Dunkerton also quit the company because Icarus was trying to help him out in matches via cheating. That transitioned into Icarus' face turn and role as the main guy trying to bring Chikara back from the grave.

In the end, they were probably written off because Quack didn't have anything for them. His roster for the Ashes-era stuff was bloated as hell already. Gargano did eventually come back for King of Trios one year, but Dunkerton hasn't been seen since, so there very well could be some bad feelings from that situation.

Meanwhile, Tim Donst was another guy written off around that time and his split from the company comes off as amicable. He's defended them in recent history and has said that he'd go back with the right storyline.

They never did tie up the storyline with Donst after Ashes. Was he drugged?

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


DM Punk posted:

They never did tie up the storyline with Donst after Ashes. Was he drugged?

I figured Jakob hosed him up with the Eye of Tyr.

coconono
Aug 11, 2004

I bet against K-1


Loved the Vokoder mask. A shame he gave it up for Safety Donst(not really)

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


Today is Chikarasaurus Rex: A Deadly Secret, which is the last major show until Trios. Though there is an episode of Hour of Power next week, which will be the final FINAL show before Trios.

Juan Francisco de Coronado defends the Grand Championship against Mr. Touchdown: The JFDC title reign has gone on long enough that we're finally starting to repeat challengers. Even though Touchdown failed to dethrone JFDC almost a year ago, he's earned another shot after taking down Blank, Beyond's Tracy Williams and David Starr. JFDC has had plenty of issues with Touchdown's partner and step-cousin-in-law Dasher Hatfield, so this time it's a bit more personal.

Beast Warriors vs. Crummels and Defarge: It looked like Crummels and Defarge were turning face due to the way they stood up to tag champs the Closers. Instead, they revealed that they are nothing better than mercenaries, doing business with whoever has the deepest pockets. They betrayed the Beast Warriors in an eight-man tag and now the team of giant, pissed faces want revenge.

Boomer and Dasher Hatfield vs. Hallowicked and Frightmare: Even though Boomer made his debut in an 8-man tag at Beyond recently, this will be his first Chikara match, teaming up with his dad before they head to Trios. They're up against Hallowicked and Frightmare, who don't really have anything going on these days.

Solo Darling vs. Ophidian: Two recent failed challengers for the Grand Championship try to rebuild their points. No real story behind this one.

Green Ant and Thief Ant vs. Hermit Crab and Cajun Crawdad vs. Razerhawk and Nytehawk vs. Travis Huckabee and Tony Deppen: While tag points are in play and someone could conceivably become #1 contender, this is more about giving us a taste of King of Trios, since each tag team represents a trio.

Danjerhawk defends the Young Lions Cup against Sage Phillips: No idea who Sage Phillips is, but Danjerhawk used his Infinite Gauntlet win to earn an impromptu title shot and he used it to win the Young Lions Cup at the recent Beyond crossover show.

Hype Rockwell vs. Volgar: Because why not?

Cory Lidle
Oct 12, 2006


Sage works NOVA Pro a lot and is a basically a perfect YLC contender. I'm sure it won't go unmentioned that another School of Roc graduate once held the YLC (Heidi).

Wishing Juan all the best on his last day as champion.

syzpid
Aug 9, 2014


It would actually be interesting if Touchdown wins the title, Shenanigans happen at Trios between TD and Dasher, leading to a TD/Dasher match for the grand championship.

That being said, we're probably stuck with JFDC as Grand Champion till the end of the year. Can't wait for Dasher to win the title and then lose it to someone after 3 months as the payoff to JFDC's eternal run.

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


Things were bad but now they're good! Forever!

- Danjerhawk retained against Sage Phillips with a 450 double knee.

- Volgar defeated Hype Rockwell in a pretty one-sided match. Highlight was Sydney Bakabella on commentary, laughingly making GBS threads on his former client Abominus Rex.

- Travis Huckabee and Tony Deppen defeated Xyberhawx 2000, Crab People and Colony. After the match, Icarus joined in to help beat up Thief Ant and Green Ant, only for Fire Ant to come to the rescue and help clear the ring. They were going to do that Colony launcher move to the outside, but FIST cheesed it.

- Beast Warriors defeated Crummels and Defarge with a double chokeslam. Afterwards, they said that their next targets were Hallowicked and Frightmare.

- Solo Darling pinned Ophidian after realizing that the dude is too limber to take down with the Sharpstinger. After the match, Ophidian refused a handshake and stormed off.

- The Hatfields defeated Hallowicked and Frightmare. Boomer was actually looking pretty good here.

- Mr. Touchdown defeated Juan Francisco de Coronado to become the new Grand Champion. Awesome match. Midway through, the two brawled on the bleachers and JFDC suplexed Touchdown on there. By the end, the locker room emptied out with one side being tecnicos cheering on Touchdown while the other side had rudos cheering on JFDC. Touchdown kicked out after a low-blow. With the ref knocked out, Touchdown egged on JFDC to hit him repeatedly with the Ecuadorian flag. Then when JFDC saw the ref stirring, he threw the belt into Touchdown's hands and pretended to be hurt. Touchdown just threw it down and also pretended to be hurt. Finally, Touchdown escaped the Coronado Clutch and put JFDC in some kind of crossface variation until JFDC tapped.

Mel Mudkiper
Jan 19, 2012

This is cyber bulling and I will not stand for it.


Glad there's a new champ, although I still think Ophidian should have gotten the nod. The dude lives and breathes that company.

Chris James 2
Aug 9, 2012

plz remember that it was ~ME~ who told you that everything you like is actually really not good, because I knew all along.


Best news of the year from the company imo

syzpid
Aug 9, 2014


I don't think I've ever been so happy to be wrong.

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Mel Mudkiper
Jan 19, 2012

This is cyber bulling and I will not stand for it.


I feel a bit bad for JFDC because he is a great talent and its not his fault his run was so bad

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