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MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


Byolante posted:


2: Jericho was a special event freakshow in that it generated interest and excitement because nobody saw it coming. He seems more like Brock in that there is no way he will be there for road shows and he has no support network to do multimans with to build. Are they going to get Callis to act in a heyman role to keep him over while he is MIA?


Man what will they do with special event freak show AJ Styles as champion if he only comes in for big shows and doesn't do multimans?

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BodyMassageMachine
Nov 24, 2006

EAT
SLEEP

CAAAAWWWWW
REPEAT


Just chiming in to say New Japan is cool and good and Taguchi Japan should have all the belts. Give my boy Best Coach rear end Man Taguchi the respect he deserves. Juice too (for real, Juice is great and should get a midcard champ run this year).

unimportantguy
Dec 25, 2012

Maybe she has no parents and was raised by dogs?

Kaveman posted:

Can we stop dunking on the NEVER belt?? It's the perfect midcard belt keeping big hard lads occupied and putting on consistently good matches.

Suzuki's reign was pretty bad this past year, taken as a whole. Too many gimmicks. Can only hope that they do something better with the belt in 2018.

The Cameo
Jan 20, 2005

icy chain with the watch now


Putting it back on Goto and having EVIL challenge for it sounds like they're going back to the "echoing slaps of heavy meat hits" aura of the title that it had prior to Suzuki's gimmick match run.

sigmachiev
Dec 31, 2007

Fighting blood excels

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDjuC5uezKc

This is awesome - Okada's Titantron from the Dome this week.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XCA3bZWz0c

Here's Naito's which was also pretty great.

Under the vegetable
Nov 2, 2004

by Smythe


lol. Okada's is all about Okada being a golden god and destroying geeks with his moves and Naito's is all about Okada.

Under the vegetable
Nov 2, 2004

by Smythe


This makes me think that Okada is going to lose the belt to someone else entirely and Naito will make his rise to the top without Okada entirely and then they'll come together next year and Okada will beat him again and get his belt back.

The Cameo
Jan 20, 2005

icy chain with the watch now


Depends on if they have them wrestle each other again before then. Okada's leading 5-4 in one-on-one matches, I'm willing to bet Naito takes whatever next match they have to keep them 50/50.

So like Naito will beat him in the G1 or something, maybe.

SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005

Somebody call Totoro

I honestly had no idea that Naito and Okadas histories have been so intertwined. When I think of Okada I think of Tanahashi but really is been Naito nipping at his heels the whole time. I loving hope he wins the title and gets a long run with it.

fart blood
Sep 13, 2008



Finally watching the rest of Wrestlekingdom.

Sanada is a gorgeous man and I envy his hair.

Brandi Rhodes is a very attractive young lady and if she were single I would ask her out on a date and, if she said yes, I would take her to dinner and a movie and have her home by 11 and when I got home I would text her I had a great evening! Id love to see you again. Have a good night.

handsome only face
Apr 22, 2010

Cockroach went out of the room in anger. And roach's go to empty room...

Cockroache's Anarchist




SalTheBard posted:

I honestly had no idea that Naito and Okadas histories have been so intertwined. When I think of Okada I think of Tanahashi but really is been Naito nipping at his heels the whole time. I loving hope he wins the title and gets a long run with it.

under his boot is where he belongs

Charles Gnarwin
Jul 31, 2014

I joined the #RXT REVOLUTION.

he knows...


I'm so down with Jay White joining Chaos for entirely selfish reasons and not being buddy-buddy with anyone in the group. His annoyed explanation to the reporters was great.

spudsbuckley
Aug 29, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 4047 days!


I watched WK12 out of idle curiosity despite knowing gently caress all about New Japan/most of the workers.

It was pretty good but i wasn't as high on the old man hair-vs-hair match or the main event as y'all, probably because i didn't really know the context of the stakes involved. Still though, it was much better than any of the WWE PPVs i've watched recently.

The only thing i find weird about the company is that every single guy seems to belong to a faction.

SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005

Somebody call Totoro

spudsbuckley posted:

I watched WK12 out of idle curiosity despite knowing gently caress all about New Japan/most of the workers.

It was pretty good but i wasn't as high on the old man hair-vs-hair match or the main event as y'all, probably because i didn't really know the context of the stakes involved. Still though, it was much better than any of the WWE PPVs i've watched recently.

The only thing i find weird about the company is that every single guy seems to belong to a faction.

Factions are still a pretty big deal. Bullet Club, CHAOS, Tagutchi Japan and LIJ cover a pretty late portion of the roster. I'm sure there is a cultural reason for it But hosed if I know.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


spudsbuckley posted:

I watched WK12 out of idle curiosity despite knowing gently caress all about New Japan/most of the workers.

It was pretty good but i wasn't as high on the old man hair-vs-hair match or the main event as y'all, probably because i didn't really know the context of the stakes involved. Still though, it was much better than any of the WWE PPVs i've watched recently.

The only thing i find weird about the company is that every single guy seems to belong to a faction.

The house shows are made up of lots of multi man tags so it's easier to have everyone in a group to base those around.

Under the vegetable
Nov 2, 2004

by Smythe


It just kind of makes sense to have factions. Seems like it's easier to book and write angles if you have a bunch of wide, broad alliances everyone can belong to and draw from instead of having to balance a hundred individual stories

Charles Gnarwin
Jul 31, 2014

I joined the #RXT REVOLUTION.

he knows...


Also, it never really made sense in other promotions to have one faction that runs roughshod while everybody else looks like a dumbass for not making some friends with matching t-shirts.

The Cameo
Jan 20, 2005

icy chain with the watch now


The reasoning is twofold:

1) the bulk of matches New Japan runs are multi-man tags - six to ten man tags, which are commonly the entirety of house show cards, make up the most of Road To shows, are usually the bottom half of the second-tier major shows, and the top tier shows outside of Wrestle Kingdom usually have one or two for the opener so people can see legends like Liger and Nakanishi and Nagata/Young Lions can experience in front of bigger crowds. Factions make it easy to throw together these sorts of multi-man matches instead of being like "these two hated each other a year ago but now they're buddies!"

2) the factions are pretty much who you bus with on tours. The Young Lions bus with the Third Gen guys and Liger, who are also their trainers at the dojo. KUSHIDA/Taguchi/Juice/Finlay/Tana/Young Lions when the Third Gen guys aren't touring are another group, and then everything goes down to the factions you see from there. Every so often New Japan World posts videos of the guys loving around on their buses. So like half the reason Jay is actually in CHAOS probably has to do with him having gotten along a bunch of guys in CHAOS from back when he was a Young Lion and them being like "bus with us". You put him in the group, you can still present a kayfabe reason he's seen out in public with the rest of them, and New Japan still keeps a ~basic~ level of kayfabe alive.

spudsbuckley
Aug 29, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 4047 days!


Ah, that makes sense.

They do seem to get the balance of older guys and younger talent in the ring right so you aren't just watching two broken down husks/guys that don't give a gently caress anymore dragging their asses through a match.

remusclaw
Dec 8, 2009



Still feels weird Goto is in Chaos. I thought for sure after the way he joined up that he would clash with the group from the inside, but nope, nothing.

sigmachiev
Dec 31, 2007

Fighting blood excels

In kayfabe another reason for the factions is those are your training partners. Think like an MMA camp. I'm pretty sure one of the things about Goto joining CHAOS was because he wanted to train with Okada, or Okada thought he would benefit form their camps, or something to that effect.

Panama Red
Jul 30, 2003

funky cold madiba


During Wrestle Kingdom 12, New Japan announced it will run the final three nights of this year's G1 Climax at Nippon Budokan. Normally the tradition is to run those events at the Sumo Hall (Ryogoku Kokugikan). Both venues are in Tokyo but the Budokan has a larger capacity. There hasn't been pro wrestling in the Budokan since May 2013 when Kenta Kobashi's retirement show "Final Burning" sold out the building. New Japan itself hasn't run the venue since 2002.

The eccentric DDT promotion held a show in the Budokan in 2012. The main event was to be Kenny Omega challenging his best friend and tag team partner Kota Ibushi for the K-OD Openweight title. They had an amazing match, which included this spot:



Ibushi was explicitly told before the match not to jump off the balcony, but he did it anyway, because the buzz for the match was so high. Ibushi was banned from performing in the Budokan again.

This may mean that Ibushi is just kept off the G1 shows, but then again, we could see another appearance by the mysterious Tiger Mask W...

Draxion
Jun 9, 2013


I love that Ibushi is both a man who has to be told to not jump off a balcony, and also a man who thinks he absolutely has to do it because the crowd is very excited.

frankenfreak
Feb 16, 2007

Almanya önde!
Bir başka hedef!
Sonsuz şef Löw için zafer!


The Cameo posted:

2) the factions are pretty much who you bus with on tours. The Young Lions bus with the Third Gen guys and Liger, who are also their trainers at the dojo. KUSHIDA/Taguchi/Juice/Finlay/Tana/Young Lions when the Third Gen guys aren't touring are another group, and then everything goes down to the factions you see from there. Every so often New Japan World posts videos of the guys loving around on their buses. So like half the reason Jay is actually in CHAOS probably has to do with him having gotten along a bunch of guys in CHAOS from back when he was a Young Lion and them being like "bus with us". You put him in the group, you can still present a kayfabe reason he's seen out in public with the rest of them, and New Japan still keeps a ~basic~ level of kayfabe alive.
I didn't know that. That's cool.

Panama Red posted:

Ibushi was explicitly told before the match not to jump off the balcony, but he did it anyway
kota_ibushi.txt

SatoshiMiwa
May 6, 2007



Factions/multimans is a good way to get people to wrestle in a build up without burning people out on the single match too. WWE would probably do better doing a few more multi man matches on Raw or Smackdown so they don't burn up as many single matches.

remusclaw
Dec 8, 2009



I don't know what you are talking about, I am just as excited to see Bray Wyatt/Randy Orton the sixth time as I was the first time.

Strawberry Panda
Nov 4, 2007

Breakfast Defecting, Slow Dick Touching, Root Beer Barreling SwagVP


SatoshiMiwa posted:

Factions/multimans is a good way to get people to wrestle in a build up without burning people out on the single match too. WWE would probably do better doing a few more multi man matches on Raw or Smackdown so they don't burn up as many single matches.

They used to do it a lot and those matches were always fun. Dunno why they stopped.

Vertigo Ambrosia
May 25, 2004
Heretic, please.


I'm a little surprised that there's any chance New Japan really cares about Elgin's repuation, considering when Honma's girlfriend said he was abusing her a few years back, they pretty much ignored it and put the tag titles on him and Makabe.

remusclaw
Dec 8, 2009



Vertigo Ambrosia posted:

I'm a little surprised that there's any chance New Japan really cares about Elgin's repuation, considering when Honma's girlfriend said he was abusing her a few years back, they pretty much ignored it and put the tag titles on him and Makabe.

It's more about the bad blood in the locker room than it is that, as to his likelihood of not being resigned. He apparently pissed a decent amount of his coworkers off.

GEORGE W BUSHI
Jul 1, 2012



https://twitter.com/takam777/status/949655254051692544

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


VOW just said there is nothing to their tweet about Elgin having re-signed.

DangerDummy!
Jul 6, 2009


BodyMassageMachine posted:

Juice too (for real, Juice is great and should get a midcard champ run this year).

I saw a few of Juice's post match interviews during G1 and he cracked me up. He never really got a chance to show much personality in NXT, so it was a nice surprise.

WK12 was my first real exposure to NJPW outside of hunting down a few random matches, and I think I'm hooked. I ended up big time intrigued by Suzuki. What should I know about him (the man and the gimmick) going forward to get a better appreciation of him? Any must see matches? Literally the only things I know about him is that creepy match with KANA and that he loves to beat the poo poo out of the young lions.

For real though, outside of a few Takeovers, I haven't experienced a ppv show that kept me entertained from top to bottom like that, which is nuts considering I had very little context for what was happening and it was 6 freaking hours long! Pretty amazing.

e: Seriously, I fell asleep during the last 3 Wrestlemanias. Twice during the last one.

DangerDummy! fucked around with this message at Jan 7, 2018 around 00:29

Panama Red
Jul 30, 2003

funky cold madiba



Naito versus Taichi... How long do you think it'll be before they actually start wrestling after their entrances?

Your Boy Fancy
Feb 7, 2003

The best days on earth are improbable days.

Panama Red posted:

Naito versus Taichi... How long do you think it'll be before they actually start wrestling after their entrances?

Fifteen minutes, then endless Destinos

Still misses the Stardust Press

handsome only face
Apr 22, 2010

Cockroach went out of the room in anger. And roach's go to empty room...

Cockroache's Anarchist




DangerDummy! posted:

WK12 was my first real exposure to NJPW outside of hunting down a few random matches, and I think I'm hooked. I ended up big time intrigued by Suzuki. What should I know about him (the man and the gimmick) going forward to get a better appreciation of him? Any must see matches? Literally the only things I know about him is that creepy match with KANA and that he loves to beat the poo poo out of the young lions.

Suzuki was one of the co-founders of the Pancrase fight promotion which had a ruleset around open hand striking & submission wrestling and that reflects in his pro wrestling style a lot but he's had just about every type of match with every type of opponent there is to have. He likes One Piece and fishing.

checksin
Nov 23, 2006

I joined the new sensation, the #RXT REVOLUTION~!



he knows...


One time minoru suzuki had a match with a robot mummy that uses a big drill as a weapon and it didnt work on him

Panama Red
Jul 30, 2003

funky cold madiba


DangerDummy! posted:

WK12 was my first real exposure to NJPW outside of hunting down a few random matches, and I think I'm hooked. I ended up big time intrigued by Suzuki. What should I know about him (the man and the gimmick) going forward to get a better appreciation of him? Any must see matches? Literally the only things I know about him is that creepy match with KANA and that he loves to beat the poo poo out of the young lions.

As stated above, Minoru Suzuki was one of the founders of one of the most respected and prestigious Japanese MMA promotions, Pancrase, along with Masakatsu Funaki, who is also considered one of the greatest Japanese MMA fighters to ever live. There's an entire subculture among Western puro fans who hold up Pancrase, UWF, Futen, BattlARTS and other "shoot-style" promotions as the greatest promotions ever, primarily because their whole style around psychology, realism, and virtually everything else that no longer gets much emphasis in US pro-wrestling (save for maybe ROH in its heyday). Suzuki is an especially proficient wrestler in the catch-as-catch-can style of wrestling embodied by guys like Karl Gotch; Suzuki uses a cradle piledriver, otherwise known as a Gotch-style piledriver, in tribute to Gotch. (Gotch was also the innovator of the German suplex and worked as a trainer at the New Japan dojo when Inoki founded the promotion, so NJPW "strong-style" derives a lot from the Gotch influence.)

Suzuki is more than just the Japanese Ken Shamrock, though. He's a natural heel who has a gift for getting the crowd against him, and it's why he's nicknamed "the man with the worst personality in the world." He oozes personality, but the fans love him and respect him, hence why the sing along with his theme song.

He's had major pushes in NOAH and All Japan (and has held the top titles in both promotions) and has featured prominently in New Japan. He's not a main eventer now because he's pushing 50 years old, but the fact that he leads Suzuki-gun and is still a prominent figure in the dominant Japanese promotion should testify to the fact that he's still a big-time draw.

He was at his peak in the 1990s as a fighter but didn't take up pro wrestling full time until the 2000s. Some of his best matches:

Pancrase highlights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TkDperXfQ0
versus Kenta Kobashi, 2005, NOAH: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eWOURirvDk
versus Yuji Nagata, 2007, NJPW: http://www.veoh.com/watch/v891883jpKPZjjz
versus Keiji Mutoh, 2007, AJPW: Couldn't find a link for this one.

versus AJ styles, 2014, NJPW G1 Climax: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6aua6i

Panama Red fucked around with this message at Jan 7, 2018 around 01:24

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


Panama Red posted:

As stated above, Minoru Suzuki was one of the founders of one of the most respected and prestigious Japanese MMA promotions, Pancrase, along with Masakatsu Funaki, who is also considered one of the greatest Japanese MMA fighters to ever live. There's an entire subculture among Western puro fans who hold up Pancrase, UWF, Futen, BattlARTS and other "shoot-style" promotions as the greatest promotions ever, primarily because their whole style around psychology, realism, and virtually everything else that no longer gets much emphasis in US pro-wrestling (save for maybe ROH in its heyday). Suzuki is an especially proficient wrestler in the catch-as-catch-can style of wrestling embodied by guys like Karl Gotch; Suzuki uses a cradle piledriver, otherwise known as a Gotch-style piledriver, in tribute to Gotch. (Gotch was also the innovator of the German suplex and worked as a trainer at the New Japan dojo when Inoki founded the promotion, so NJPW "strong-style" derives a lot from the Gotch influence.)

Suzuki is more than just the Japanese Ken Shamrock, though. He's a natural heel who has a gift for getting the crowd against him, and it's why he's nicknamed "the man with the worst personality in the world." He oozes personality, but the fans love him and respect him, hence why the sing along with his theme song.

He's had major pushes in NOAH and All Japan (and has held the top titles in both promotions) and has featured prominently in New Japan. He's not a main eventer now because he's pushing 50 years old, but the fact that he leads Suzuki-gun and is still a prominent figure in the dominant Japanese promotion should testify to the fact that he's still a big-time draw.

He was at his peak in the 1990s as a fighter but didn't take up pro wrestling full time until the 2000s. Some of his best matches:

Pancrase highlights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TkDperXfQ0
versus Kenta Kobashi, 2005, NOAH: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eWOURirvDk
versus Yuji Nagata, 2007, NJPW: http://www.veoh.com/watch/v891883jpKPZjjz
versus Keiji Mutoh, 2007, AJPW: Couldn't find a link for this one.

Calling him a big time draw is a stretch as his run on top of NOAH flopped pretty badly.

Panama Red
Jul 30, 2003

funky cold madiba


MassRafTer posted:

Calling him a big time draw is a stretch as his run on top of NOAH flopped pretty badly.

True, although there were a lot of things fundamentally wrong with NOAH as a promotion post-2012 that one man couldn't solve.

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C. Everett Koop
Aug 18, 2008

by Smythe


Panama Red posted:

As stated above, Minoru Suzuki was one of the founders of one of the most respected and prestigious Japanese MMA promotions, Pancrase, along with Masakatsu Funaki, who is also considered one of the greatest Japanese MMA fighters to ever live. There's an entire subculture among Western puro fans who hold up Pancrase, UWF, Futen, BattlARTS and other "shoot-style" promotions as the greatest promotions ever, primarily because their whole style around psychology, realism, and virtually everything else that no longer gets much emphasis in US pro-wrestling (save for maybe ROH in its heyday). Suzuki is an especially proficient wrestler in the catch-as-catch-can style of wrestling embodied by guys like Karl Gotch; Suzuki uses a cradle piledriver, otherwise known as a Gotch-style piledriver, in tribute to Gotch. (Gotch was also the innovator of the German suplex and worked as a trainer at the New Japan dojo when Inoki founded the promotion, so NJPW "strong-style" derives a lot from the Gotch influence.)

Suzuki is more than just the Japanese Ken Shamrock, though. He's a natural heel who has a gift for getting the crowd against him, and it's why he's nicknamed "the man with the worst personality in the world." He oozes personality, but the fans love him and respect him, hence why the sing along with his theme song.

He's had major pushes in NOAH and All Japan (and has held the top titles in both promotions) and has featured prominently in New Japan. He's not a main eventer now because he's pushing 50 years old, but the fact that he leads Suzuki-gun and is still a prominent figure in the dominant Japanese promotion should testify to the fact that he's still a big-time draw.

He was at his peak in the 1990s as a fighter but didn't take up pro wrestling full time until the 2000s. Some of his best matches:

Pancrase highlights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TkDperXfQ0
versus Kenta Kobashi, 2005, NOAH: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eWOURirvDk
versus Yuji Nagata, 2007, NJPW: http://www.veoh.com/watch/v891883jpKPZjjz
versus Keiji Mutoh, 2007, AJPW: Couldn't find a link for this one.

MiSu/AJ from the 2015 G1 was a MOTYC, post that.

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