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qhat
Jul 6, 2015




Achmed Jones posted:

i do wonder what the "our company enables genocide and child rape" tax is. if facebook _isn't_ paying more than the rest of faang then thats real weird. maybe theres enough people who dont care who is hurt by what they build though (what a depressing thought)

tbh to make me start even _considering_ facebook they'd have to get high-six/low-seven figgies and frankly i like to think that even that wouldn't get me to work for them. but i do recognize that i have a price - that's one reason i wont talk to their recruiters. i dont want to give them a chance to find it

You would be stealing money right from under non-other than Zuckerbergs solid gold rear end. You owe it to yourself to steal money from the ultra wealthy.

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Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005



Nap Ghost

Achmed Jones posted:

maybe theres enough people who dont care who is hurt by what they build though (what a depressing thought)

no. perish the thought.

ErrorInvalidUser
Aug 23, 2021



zuckerberg ends up benefiting with a wealthier labor force tho Lmao

CarForumPoster
Jun 26, 2013
I have a high school diploma AND a hobby coin project

Now that you're sufficiently in awe, you motherfuckers shut up and let me tell you how human safety in your self driving car works in the REAL WORLD


qhat posted:

I've seen that chart before, I already know it. The guy in the tweet is specifically referring to video game experience and meta specifically, I was wondering if there is anyone else in the gaming industry who are seeing these rises. I already know that salaries are up in this industry at least 50% from this time last year, but that guy is suggesting that it's possible to demand 750k from Meta and not get immediately laughed out of the building, which is frankly obscene if there's even a hint of truth to that.

I just checked the very latest salary data for a sw engineer 4, in SF, in the 95th %, at a unicorn or larger valued company. $220K total cash ($215k base), $2-$5M equity presumably vesting over 4 years.

So yea...I can't believe I am typing this but if you:
-are a SW engineer 4+
-live in SF
-join a unicorn that goes public
-are paid in the top 5% of sw engineer 4s in SF at unicorns. You outearn almost all AI PhDs at Google. This is hard to do.
-fully vest your options and sell at a market cap substantially greater than the strike price

You can bring home $750k per year for a 5 year stint after you sell the stock.

Now those are some narrow-rear end conditions...50th% of a SW4 is still $1M stock and $190K cash tho. So $500K/yr if you picked a winner...but youre picking when theyre already valued at $1B so thats not that risky and I have to imagine theres a secondary market for unicorn options.


All that to say...that tweet isn't WRONG wrong and I really thought it HAD to be.

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps

Nap Ghost

line peeps at tech majors are gettin paid the post insane climb equity tho, youre talkin unicornland

they legit whacked stebe for backdated options those arent going to happen again

CarForumPoster
Jun 26, 2013
I have a high school diploma AND a hobby coin project

Now that you're sufficiently in awe, you motherfuckers shut up and let me tell you how human safety in your self driving car works in the REAL WORLD



youre makin up words now

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps

Nap Ghost

(post insane climb) equity

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004





qhat posted:

You would be stealing money right from under non-other than Zuckerbergs solid gold rear end. You owe it to yourself to steal money from the ultra wealthy.

doing work for money isn't stealing money though. when you steal from someone you do not give them anything in return. it's the whole "they take what i give them in return and then do terrible things with it" that's the problem. and yeah the more i think about it, gently caress, even for seven figgies i dont think i could touch that. still dont wanna press the issue though, i might find out something about myself i dont like very much

CarForumPoster posted:

All that to say...that tweet isn't WRONG wrong and I really thought it HAD to be.

that's just "hitting a lottery ticket". everyone knows that's possible, but it's not at all the norm and shouldn't be so considered for the most part.

Sapozhnik posted:

no. perish the thought.

i dont quite understand what you mean

FamDav
Mar 29, 2008


senior video game people being able to double their comp based on their skillset is something i think is absolutely justified. while i dont know much about peoples "leadership" skillset as senior engineers in video games companies, their technical skillset is definitely worth at least twice as much to facebook in vr than it is to ea on madden 2k22

Plorkyeran
Mar 21, 2007

To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed


if you have equity grants from before 2020 then you're in very good shape because the whole industry saw stock prices triple in 2020 but i haven't seen any indications that companies are tripling _new_ grants after that

FamDav
Mar 29, 2008


CarForumPoster posted:

I just checked the very latest salary data for a sw engineer 4, in SF, in the 95th %, at a unicorn or larger valued company. $220K total cash ($215k base), $2-$5M equity presumably vesting over 4 years.

So yea...I can't believe I am typing this but if you:
-are a SW engineer 4+
-live in SF
-join a unicorn that goes public
-are paid in the top 5% of sw engineer 4s in SF at unicorns. You outearn almost all AI PhDs at Google. This is hard to do.
-fully vest your options and sell at a market cap substantially greater than the strike price

You can bring home $750k per year for a 5 year stint after you sell the stock.

Now those are some narrow-rear end conditions...50th% of a SW4 is still $1M stock and $190K cash tho. So $500K/yr if you picked a winner...but youre picking when theyre already valued at $1B so thats not that risky and I have to imagine theres a secondary market for unicorn options.


All that to say...that tweet isn't WRONG wrong and I really thought it HAD to be.

are these grants options or rsus? and is the dollar amount the grant at the beginning or end of its vest?

FamDav
Mar 29, 2008


Plorkyeran posted:

if you have equity grants from before 2020 then you're in very good shape because the whole industry saw stock prices triple in 2020 but i haven't seen any indications that companies are tripling _new_ grants after that

also lol if you worked at one of the companies that switched to 1 year grants around that time

carry on then
Jul 10, 2010


lmao jesus those stock numbers are eyepops. my employer fundamentally does not understand rsus, because they created an absolutely miniscule pool of them to use as a "retention tool" then gave them out to the point that most managers just gave everyone like $2,000 in 4-year vesting rsus.

our share price is going down.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007





Ask for puts.

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps

Nap Ghost

yeah you cant get idiots in management to believe in figgieland figs. cure is nujob in figgieland

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008


Achmed Jones posted:

im talkin general software, not games, but i have a hard time believing that games has suddenly shot past the rest of the industry after being behind for so long. but maybe facebook is going really hard for game devs :shrug:

I could believe it for people skilled in VR poo poo specifically. that's a pretty new area (so fewer devs on the market) that's pretty in demand that Facebook is pushing very hard in

without specific VR experience I'd be very surprised. but I'm hardly an expert on tech compensation (apart from me deece six and a half figgies anyway)

CarForumPoster
Jun 26, 2013
I have a high school diploma AND a hobby coin project

Now that you're sufficiently in awe, you motherfuckers shut up and let me tell you how human safety in your self driving car works in the REAL WORLD


FamDav posted:

are these grants options or rsus? and is the dollar amount the grant at the beginning or end of its vest?

I dont have that level of insight. Presumably theyre options to purchase between 0.02% and 0.11% of the company at some unknown strike price. Obvs that strike price can make the options worthless without an option reprice or make you get your $750K. Then theres the whole exercise window issue. Hence why options are often treated like monopoly money. Also this data could include people who started as Engineer 2s at Series A/B and are now Engineer 4s at Series N/Public.

carry on then posted:

lmao jesus those stock numbers are eyepops. my employer fundamentally does not understand rsus, because they created an absolutely miniscule pool of them to use as a "retention tool" then gave them out to the point that most managers just gave everyone like $2,000 in 4-year vesting rsus.

our share price is going down.

Usually you can thank your board of directors for this. Like gently caress every plutocrat C-suite but this is usually the current investors sitting on the board being like...you want to dilute us? Nah.

EDIT: Clarification: When they make an options pool it is creating new shares so the current shareholders now own less of the company. At an A-round startup a typical employee option pool is 10%. Later than that I have no idea because I am not good at business so I don't need to know.

ultrafilter posted:

Ask for puts.

lol

CarForumPoster fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Nov 23, 2021

CPColin
Sep 9, 2003

Big ol' smile.

ultrafilter posted:

Ask for puts.

This is very close to the last line on my business card

jesus WEP
Oct 17, 2004



Fun Shoe

CarForumPoster posted:

youre makin up words now
now? having a bizarre personal lexicon has been bdidís gimmick forever

CarForumPoster
Jun 26, 2013
I have a high school diploma AND a hobby coin project

Now that you're sufficiently in awe, you motherfuckers shut up and let me tell you how human safety in your self driving car works in the REAL WORLD


jesus WEP posted:

now? having a bizarre personal lexicon has been bdidís gimmick forever

as a bay area startup survivor i wouldnt call it personal

dumbass words is the natural progeny of Yale kids arguing with MIT kids and both being wrong

CarForumPoster
Jun 26, 2013
I have a high school diploma AND a hobby coin project

Now that you're sufficiently in awe, you motherfuckers shut up and let me tell you how human safety in your self driving car works in the REAL WORLD


I cant get over those loving figgies.

Physicians go through a decade of absolutely BRUTAL schooling. They save lives.

If I quit the company I started with my partner, I could be making more base than middle-of-the-country pediatricians.

How? poo poo is hosed.

FamDav
Mar 29, 2008


CarForumPoster posted:

I cant get over those loving figgies.

Physicians go through a decade of absolutely BRUTAL schooling. They save lives.

If I quit the company I started with my partner, I could be making more base than middle-of-the-country pediatricians.

How? poo poo is hosed.

wait til you find out how much the people who educate our nations future make!

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 14, 2013



FamDav posted:

wait til you find out how much the people who educate our nations future make!

i make more money than the sum of staff members occupying a generic highschool floor here, itís hosed beyond pale (but weíre also like the worst in oecd or something about paying teachers)

CarForumPoster
Jun 26, 2013
I have a high school diploma AND a hobby coin project

Now that you're sufficiently in awe, you motherfuckers shut up and let me tell you how human safety in your self driving car works in the REAL WORLD


The state of Florida tells you the salaries of all people in government really easily.

The Chief Justice for the state of Florida appears to be the 4th highest salaried occupation in the state...

...$227k


I bet they cant even have other lawyer gigs. And it aint like they retire from that.

They make decisions about peoples lives and worth millions or potentially billions of dollars.

Paid as much as some crud app makers.

CarForumPoster fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Nov 24, 2021

asur
Dec 28, 2012


CarForumPoster posted:

I cant get over those loving figgies.

Physicians go through a decade of absolutely BRUTAL schooling. They save lives.

If I quit the company I started with my partner, I could be making more base than middle-of-the-country pediatricians.

How? poo poo is hosed.

Because a dev's value scales with the number of users and thus the FAANGs and others are not only highly profitable, but they're highly profitable per worker. There's not greater illustration of this than to compare Apple or Microsoft against GE in it's heyday. The same applies to doctors where like those old GE employees are working with their hands and thus can't scale.

Judges are generally extremely well off prior to being appointed. No one is choosing to be a judge for the money

PokeJoe
Aug 24, 2004

hail cgatan




I see eye popping dev salaries and then I see companies where the founders run away with 200 million dollars after selling a company that will never be profitable to some other rubes

PokeJoe
Aug 24, 2004

hail cgatan




the best thing you can do to make money is to just convince a rich person to give it to you

PokeJoe
Aug 24, 2004

hail cgatan




Work? Sell products? Provide a service? Why when some dude with more money than a pharaoh will just give you a lifetime supply of dollars if you tell him you can make good juice

FamDav
Mar 29, 2008


also, like, doctors wages are already held artificially high by reducing the number of slots available to onramp into the profession and refusing foreign credentials. which also helps contribute to brutality of schooling and residency and just being a doctor in general.

Asleep Style
Oct 20, 2010



CarForumPoster posted:

The state of Florida tells you the salaries of all people in government really easily.

The Chief Justice for the state of Florida appears to be the 4th highest salaried occupation in the state...

...$227k


I bet they cant even have other lawyer gigs. And it aint like they retire from that.

They make decisions about peoples lives and worth millions or potentially billions of dollars.

Paid as much as some crud app makers.

in almost all states the highest paid public employee is <flagship university head football coach>

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005



Nap Ghost

definitely not the sign of ludicrous exuberance in the imminent leadup to a massive collapse

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008



asur posted:

Judges are generally extremely well off prior to being appointed. No one is choosing to be a judge for the money

it seems like the highest qol lawyer job

kdrudy
Sep 19, 2009



FamDav posted:

senior video game people being able to double their comp based on their skillset is something i think is absolutely justified. while i dont know much about peoples "leadership" skillset as senior engineers in video games companies, their technical skillset is definitely worth at least twice as much to facebook in vr than it is to ea on madden 2k22

And senior video game people are super rare since most burn out from lovely treatment before they are around that long.

qhat
Jul 6, 2015




PokeJoe posted:

I see eye popping dev salaries and then I see companies where the founders run away with 200 million dollars after selling a company that will never be profitable to some other rubes

I was working for a company like 3 years ago and was earning literally $83k CAD. The company earned around 10million a year gross revenue. I heard it sold a couple of weeks ago for 150million loving dollars cash. I lolled because I mean the most the employees probably saw out of it was new handles for the foosball table.

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015


FamDav posted:

wait til you find out how much the people who educate our nations future make!

Right? To me this was always one of the stupidest things that people take for granted -- only people who suck go to teach and we should paid them poo poo.

MononcQc
May 29, 2007

"I believe I did, Bob."



friend of a friend apparently quit this way, this is the most powerful move I've seen to date:

https://twitter.com/rbxbex/status/1462880237537083395?s=21

CarForumPoster
Jun 26, 2013
I have a high school diploma AND a hobby coin project

Now that you're sufficiently in awe, you motherfuckers shut up and let me tell you how human safety in your self driving car works in the REAL WORLD


MononcQc posted:

friend of a friend apparently quit this way, this is the most powerful move I've seen to date:

https://twitter.com/rbxbex/status/1462880237537083395?s=21

owns

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004





i just learned who those people are. i also just turned to dust and blew away in the light breeze

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008


Achmed Jones posted:

i just learned who those people are. i also just turned to dust and blew away in the light breeze

same

I'm not even 30 yet

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Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005



Nap Ghost

pretty soon some kid who was born after i graduated college is going to do some hugely impactful thing and i'm not ready for that feeling just yet

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