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MononcQc
May 29, 2007

"I believe I did, Bob."


raminasi posted:

designing data intensive applications is a good book for general study but there’s a different book that’s better for cramming for system design interviews

Seconding this. DDIA is good but the people who love it the most are those who already had a strong distributed systems background and now have a small bible of all the most relevant stuff. Xu's book is really geared towards system design interviews and has a solid coverage of all the basics and how to approach interviews specifically. More bang for your time in terms of effort.

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GenJoe
Sep 14, 2010


Rehabilitated?


That's just a bullshit word.

KidDynamite posted:

if you're going for senior roles you will have to read some system design stuff. i see you talking about ios some times so i just want to let you know there are zero good ios system design resources.

this is a decent resource for mobile system design, even if I disagree with some of the technical specifics (but that’s going to be common any time you watch someone else design a system. you should be able to disagree and articulate why (politely/collaboratively, of course))

https://github.com/weeeBox/mobile-system-design

Pulcinella
Feb 15, 2019
Thanks for the help everyone! Yeah I primarily do iOS mobile development. The system design stuff is definitely good to think about. Also agree that most of what is out there is bad (most of the more high profile iOS stuff is from people trying to make a name for themselves and/or sell educational courses rather than based on anything found to work well in production software. GenJoe’s link looks to be a good place to start reviewing and thinking about how I would describe in an interview the design of the apps I’ve worked on).

carry on then
Jul 10, 2010

GenJoe posted:

this is a decent resource for mobile system design, even if I disagree with some of the technical specifics (but that’s going to be common any time you watch someone else design a system. you should be able to disagree and articulate why (politely/collaboratively, of course))

https://github.com/weeeBox/mobile-system-design

stuff like this keeps reminding me how my job and background don't fit into the little backend-frontend pigeonhole most of the industry wants to put me in. like i'd have to answer that i'm primarily backend, but i wouldn't know how to design the backend for a service like twitter. i could setup a websphere nd cluster with all the necessary config and probably write some of the app right in the interview, but i couldn't do the rest without tons of googling and basically self-teaching right then and there. how urgently badly do i need to be studying up on all this other stuff off the clock if i ever want to change jobs in the future?

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
you need a spaced repetition flash card deck to memorize buzzwords and a therapist so you dont post panicked poo poo like that. if you live in the us especially so cuz its fuckoff hours in the us

but you do need to get rid of your negative value (for career and sanity lol) websphere knowledge lol

KidDynamite
Feb 11, 2005

carry on then posted:

stuff like this keeps reminding me how my job and background don't fit into the little backend-frontend pigeonhole most of the industry wants to put me in. like i'd have to answer that i'm primarily backend, but i wouldn't know how to design the backend for a service like twitter. i could setup a websphere nd cluster with all the necessary config and probably write some of the app right in the interview, but i couldn't do the rest without tons of googling and basically self-teaching right then and there. how urgently badly do i need to be studying up on all this other stuff off the clock if i ever want to change jobs in the future?

ddia covers setting up twitter. just saying.

my homie dhall
Dec 9, 2010

honey, oh please, it's just a machine
the problem with system design interviews is the actually correct answer to all of them is “i’m just gonna shove all this poo poo in postgres and do my queries good”

my homie dhall
Dec 9, 2010

honey, oh please, it's just a machine
you’re going to reach for cassandra? really bro?

champagne posting
Apr 5, 2006

YOU ARE A BRAIN
IN A BUNKER

my homie dhall posted:

you’re going to reach for cassandra? really bro?

not even once

Blinkz0rz
May 27, 2001

MY CONTEMPT FOR MY OWN EMPLOYEES IS ONLY MATCHED BY MY LOVE FOR TOM BRADY'S SWEATY MAGA BALLS

my homie dhall posted:

you’re going to reach for cassandra? really bro?

sparse data? write heavy workload? ops team with a death wish?

Asymmetric POSTer
Aug 17, 2005

just got a ”we’re not going to be moving forward with your application” email for a job i forgot i applied to 5 months ago

my homie dhall
Dec 9, 2010

honey, oh please, it's just a machine

Blinkz0rz posted:

sparse data? write heavy workload? ops team with a death wish?

just write your queries good man, you’ll be fine i promise

carry on then
Jul 10, 2010

bob dobbs is dead posted:

you need a spaced repetition flash card deck to memorize buzzwords and a therapist so you dont post panicked poo poo like that. if you live in the us especially so cuz its fuckoff hours in the us

but you do need to get rid of your negative value (for career and sanity lol) websphere knowledge lol

if i do that i literally have no knowledge or experience, im literally on the websphere development team

Corla Plankun
May 8, 2007

improve the lives of everyone

my homie dhall posted:

the problem with system design interviews is the actually correct answer to all of them is “i’m just gonna shove all this poo poo in postgres and do my queries good”

lmao interviewers hate when i say this but it works for almost everything

my first step as a systems designer is always "prove that you can't just do this in postgres" before any ~big data architecture decisions~~~ are allowed

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011

Corla Plankun posted:

lmao interviewers hate when i say this but it works for almost everything

my first step as a systems designer is always "prove that you can't just do this in postgres" before any ~big data architecture decisions~~~ are allowed

they normally preface the question with something like "we're going to have 1 billion users from day 1" to avoid this, even though it's extremely dumb

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost

carry on then posted:

if i do that i literally have no knowledge or experience, im literally on the websphere development team

ooh thats a problem sorry

carry on then
Jul 10, 2010

bob dobbs is dead posted:

ooh thats a problem sorry

i mean, how would i go about solving it? sounds like i need to work an entire unpaid job outside of my job just to have a shot at ever getting another development role elsewhere?

DELETE CASCADE
Oct 25, 2017

i haven't washed my penis since i jerked it to a phtotograph of george w. bush in 2003
pretty fun to watch carry on then transition from "all computer touchers must die" to... whatever this is

Corla Plankun
May 8, 2007

improve the lives of everyone

carry on then posted:

i mean, how would i go about solving it? sounds like i need to work an entire unpaid job outside of my job just to have a shot at ever getting another development role elsewhere?

just gently caress around on personal projects way more until you feel comfortable interviewing for whatever jobs you actually want

nudgenudgetilt
Mar 18, 2003

carry on then posted:

i mean, how would i go about solving it? sounds like i need to work an entire unpaid job outside of my job just to have a shot at ever getting another development role elsewhere?


Corla Plankun posted:

just gently caress around on personal projects way more until you feel comfortable interviewing for whatever jobs you actually want

"yes" would have done.

carry on then
Jul 10, 2010

DELETE CASCADE posted:

pretty fun to watch carry on then transition from "all computer touchers must die" to... whatever this is

wish i knew earlier that i lived rent-free in your head, could have saved some money


Corla Plankun posted:

just gently caress around on personal projects way more until you feel comfortable interviewing for whatever jobs you actually want

not really sure a few personal projects can make up for nearly a decade of experience that apparently qualifies me for insta-rejection

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice
if someone can get hired with only mumps experience i find it hard to imagine that a websphere dev can't get hired

DELETE CASCADE
Oct 25, 2017

i haven't washed my penis since i jerked it to a phtotograph of george w. bush in 2003

carry on then posted:

wish i knew earlier that i lived rent-free in your head, could have saved some money

i don't think of you until i see you post. unfortunately this is more often than i would like

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



have you actually done an interview to see where your gaps are? maybe give that a go first. you're a dev on websphere. ok, that means you can do application dev work. if you can't even take a stab at how you'd deploy an application (perhaps using ibm's terminology for the cache server or kv store or whatever), that means you probably need to apply more to application developer jobs than webdev jobs where you'll be expected to know where to a kv store, where to use a relational db, etc

developing an application used in a web stack is not necessarily the same as knowing how to develop a web application. target your search accordingly.

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice

my homie dhall posted:

the problem with system design interviews is the actually correct answer to all of them is “i’m just gonna shove all this poo poo in postgres and do my queries good”

i just talked about a past project in an interview and i said at one point "this part is postgres because we didn't have any reason to not use postgres" and i think the interviewer bought it but i'm not sure

DELETE CASCADE
Oct 25, 2017

i haven't washed my penis since i jerked it to a phtotograph of george w. bush in 2003

my homie dhall posted:

the problem with system design interviews is the actually correct answer to all of them is “i’m just gonna shove all this poo poo in postgres and do my queries good”

this is a major "do hire" signal, but i am gonna want to hear about how specifically you would solve the problem with postgres

carry on then
Jul 10, 2010

Achmed Jones posted:

developing an application used in a web stack is not necessarily the same as knowing how to develop a web application. target your search accordingly.

i mean, this was the original question, it's come up in at least one thread here that lots of places think developers can only be frontend or backend and absolutely must have a list of specific skills within that binary, and how do i handle being in a role outside that binary. then it turned to "you actually don't have any valid experience at all, what you've worked on is a net negative in the eyes of interviewers" so now i have to figure out how to work with that.

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
yeah but dont gently caress around w gettin the therapist tho

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



carry on then posted:

i mean, this was the original question, it's come up in at least one thread here that lots of places think developers can only be frontend or backend and absolutely must have a list of specific skills within that binary, and how do i handle being in a role outside that binary. then it turned to "you actually don't have any valid experience at all, what you've worked on is a net negative in the eyes of interviewers" so now i have to figure out how to work with that.

frontend and backend p much only apply to webdev. apply to jobs other than webdev if you don't have webdev experience. the easiest way is probably to work on other java applications that aren't webapps. this would almost definitely be working on somebody's internal tooling i guess; i dont know of any big java applications that would need feature devs off the top of my head

the other way is to just say "backend" and go for dev-heavy - not infra-heavy - roles.

the first thing to do is _something_. it doesnt really matter what. go bomb an interview and see what you need help on

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



this is how your problem reads to me: hey i don't have unreal or unity experience, but all these gamedev jobs want unreal or unity experience. all my experience is in embedded. what should i do?

so go work at a faang. poo poo out some algorithms with java and youll be fine

carry on then
Jul 10, 2010

Achmed Jones posted:

this is how your problem reads to me: hey i don't have unreal or unity experience, but all these gamedev jobs want unreal or unity experience. all my experience is in embedded. what should i do?

so go work at a faang. poo poo out some algorithms with java and youll be fine

so that's it, career progression over at midlevel, sorry, enjoy hopping between internal services basements at consultants with no career growth? i'm assuming my experience means i'm unhireable at a faang regardless of role if it's being described as a complete hindrance with no upsides.

like, if what i'm working on is so bad that it would literally be better if i just left the last 9 years of my life off my resume, why the hell do i need to be trying interviews if i'll just be rejected before i reach the phone screen at every place on the planet?

carry on then fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Jan 19, 2023

KidDynamite
Feb 11, 2005

carry on then posted:

so that's it, career progression over at midlevel, sorry, enjoy hopping between internal services basements at consultants with no career growth? i'm assuming my experience means i'm unhireable at a faang regardless of role if it's being described as a complete hindrance with no upsides.

if you can poo poo out the algo problems under pressure they will still hire you. even if they down level you it will still probably be a salary bump. then you can have the exp necessary for the senior jump.

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
the negative value thing can be true and you can still need a therapist

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice

carry on then posted:

i'm assuming my experience means i'm unhireable at a faang

don't

when i'm at my worst i also do the "i'm unhireable at a faang because of x" thing. i'm wrong about my x, and you're wrong about yours. don't let a bdid shitpost kick you into a depressive spiral.

jesus WEP
Oct 17, 2004


this is an impressive meltdown to have over some bdid word soup

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost

jesus WEP posted:

this is an impressive meltdown to have over some bdid word soup

the dude who started the websphere project counted it as the biggest mistake of his career unfortunately

post hole digger
Mar 21, 2011

carry on then posted:

so that's it, career progression over at midlevel, sorry, enjoy hopping between internal services basements at consultants with no career growth? i'm assuming my experience means i'm unhireable at a faang regardless of role if it's being described as a complete hindrance with no upsides.

like, if what i'm working on is so bad that it would literally be better if i just left the last 9 years of my life off my resume, why the hell do i need to be trying interviews if i'll just be rejected before i reach the phone screen at every place on the planet?

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



carry on then posted:

so that's it, career progression over at midlevel, sorry, enjoy hopping between internal services basements at consultants with no career growth? i'm assuming my experience means i'm unhireable at a faang regardless of role if it's being described as a complete hindrance with no upsides.

Achmed Jones posted:

so go work at a faang. poo poo out some algorithms with java and youll be fine

yup that's definitely what i said. chill out chicken little. go try an interview and see what happens

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



wait

is this what would happen if hbag were to grow up without the Wise And Attractive Elders of YOSPOS to guide them?

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KidDynamite
Feb 11, 2005

probably

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