Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
i know a guy who works for facebook and who thinks i'm a good dev despite all of the clear evidence to the contrary, but i don't think he has any particular power to get me in the door and lol at working for a GaaS (genocide-as-a-service) platform

best of luck friend, get that bread

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



i hope the faang is G, we need more yosposters

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

Sapozhnik posted:

lol at working for a GaaS (genocide-as-a-service) platform


take the job and monkeywrench the poo poo out of the place imo

Fortaleza
Feb 21, 2008

Itís for a job at AWS and my friend was upfront that he was mostly trying to convince me *not* to go for it, said itís dehumanizing but itís not like I expect otherwise. Said the tough part is learning to be ok with things not being ok around you all the time but the money is fantastic and why his still there even though the job took his marriage. This is ďpay off my house in 4 yearsĒ money of course Iím going for it

SardonicTyrant
Feb 26, 2016

BTICH IM A NEWT
熱くなれ夢みた明日を
必ずいつかつかまえる
走り出せ振り向くことなく
&



Achmed Jones posted:

wait i thought at interviews they usually wanted to see your weenie

this...explains a lot
I mean, i wish the coding couch was real (so I could actually get paid again)

ADINSX
Sep 9, 2003

Wanna run with my crew huh? Rule cyberspace and crunch numbers like I do?

Fortaleza posted:

Itís for a job at AWS and my friend was upfront that he was mostly trying to convince me *not* to go for it, said itís dehumanizing but itís not like I expect otherwise. Said the tough part is learning to be ok with things not being ok around you all the time but the money is fantastic and why his still there even though the job took his marriage. This is ďpay off my house in 4 yearsĒ money of course Iím going for it

Yikes lol stories like that keep me from seeking out other teams within aws, Iím in a real devil you know situation.

The stuff I work on is cool, and I know there is other cool stuff out there, but Iíve also seen enough to know that long time amazonians are something to be really wary of. the system sort of rewards bringing out the worst in people in a way I find difficult to describe

Its a Rolex
Jan 23, 2023

Hey, posting is posting. You emptyquote, I turn my monitor on; what's the difference?

ADINSX posted:

the system sort of rewards bringing out the worst in people in a way I find difficult to describe

i know you said difficult to describe but I'm very curious what you mean. the only person i knew at Amazon made about half a mil TC and got laid off recently, but they were a researcher. i have sworn to never work at Amazon on moral grounds but have recently considered it as a short term gig to bank house + "gently caress you im financially independent and work when I want to" money before i gently caress off to Chicago or something

FAT32 SHAMER
Aug 16, 2012



if remote is an option for gently caress You money thenÖ I meanÖ drat

Fortaleza
Feb 21, 2008

ADINSX posted:

Yikes lol stories like that keep me from seeking out other teams within aws, Iím in a real devil you know situation.

The stuff I work on is cool, and I know there is other cool stuff out there, but Iíve also seen enough to know that long time amazonians are something to be really wary of. the system sort of rewards bringing out the worst in people in a way I find difficult to describe

The stuff for this position is cool IMO and I've always found making tools and features for other devs to use to be the most gratifying kind of work. I'd describe this friend as a sensitive guy, much more so than me, so there's that.

FAT32 SHAMER posted:

if remote is an option for gently caress You money thenÖ I meanÖ drat

He mentioned that this job is open precisely because amazon said they'd hire remote anywhere and then pulled the rug and said come in to an office or get let go and welp;

well-read undead
Dec 13, 2022

rotor posted:

take the job and monkeywrench the poo poo out of the place imo

quote:

(12) General Devices for Lowering Morale and Creating Confusion
(a) Give lengthy and incomprehensible explanations when questioned.
(b) Report imaginary spies or danger to the Gestapo or police.
(c) Act stupid.
(d) Be as irritable and quarrelsome as possible without getting yourself into trouble.
(e) Misunderstand all sorts of regulations concerning such matters as rationing, transportation, traffic regulations.
(f) Complain against ersatz materials.
(g) In public treat axis nationals or quislings coldly.
(h) Stop all conversation when axis nationals or quislings enter a cafe.
(i) Cry and sob hysterically at every occasion, especially when confronted by government clerks.
(j) Boycott all movies, entertainments, concerts, newspapers which are in any way connected with the quisling authorities.
(k) Do not cooperate in salvage schemes.

https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/26184

ADINSX
Sep 9, 2003

Wanna run with my crew huh? Rule cyberspace and crunch numbers like I do?

Its a Rolex posted:

i know you said difficult to describe but I'm very curious what you mean. the only person i knew at Amazon made about half a mil TC and got laid off recently, but they were a researcher. i have sworn to never work at Amazon on moral grounds but have recently considered it as a short term gig to bank house + "gently caress you im financially independent and work when I want to" money before i gently caress off to Chicago or something

Sure, I'll just speak from personal experience and avoid the hearsay that you can easily find on blind. I've been lucky to only have one objectively bad manager, and like 5 pretty-to-really good ones. That's 6 managers and I've only really worked on 2 teams (2 and a half if you count a sister team I briefly joined while still working on the same application). There is a lot of turnover at the manager position.

My current manager is probably the best I've had so far, but it's a bit later in my Amazon career and I'm a senior dev now, so he gives me a pretty wide latitude to work on things I think are important, so my current experience is probably the exception instead of the rule.

Another thing I've noticed is the bar is generally pretty high for competency here, this is probably the only job I've ever had that doesn't have that one team member (or multiple team members) where you wonder "what in the world are they doing here...".

So that's the good stuff out of the way first: Solid teammates, and it's possible to find good managers and interesting work.

Now the bad: The company feels very "top down", especially as of late. Big sweeping decisions like layoffs (even down to the exact people laid off) and RTO policy are handled at the very top. We'll also get edicts like "everyone should focus on Gen AI, full stop" that can feel really reactive and frankly immature. Other aspects of your service: exactly what you'll offer, the price it's offered at, naming conventions etc etc can go surprisingly high up the chain. We once waited nearly a year in a limbo state with an important new feature because we couldn't get a meeting with the right exec to approve its price.

So what do the middle management layers do? So far as I can tell, they're the ones applying the immense pressure to ship, ship ship... Timelines will be worked out for you without input from developers, and then once you have a plan in place to deliver they'll ask if they can get it sooner. I suspect this is part of the reason for our manager (and project manager) turnover: when we inevitably miss those targets, I guess it falls on them? I don't know how that side of the business runs.

So that's my feeling on the organizational structure, the other side of my feeling is just the attitudes of the people here. Expect a lot of egos, and expect it to feel a little cut throat. The power might be concentrated at the top, but that doesn't mean the rank and file aren't fighting over the scraps.

Big operations meetings can get tense: If your service has a bad dashboard or you have a bad answer for some outage then someone important will let you know. If you disagree with product's vision or push back on something a polite response isn't guaranteed. I think you could probably trace that attitude back to the "Have backbone: Disagree and Commit" leadership principal, which basically says its ok to passionately argue about something you believe in. I think that's probably a useful thing to say to shy nerds that should speak up more, but for people who were already inclined to speak up I think it gets used as an excuse to be an rear end in a top hat sometimes. As an aside: expect to hear people quote those leadership principals a lot, that's how you can tell who's a true lifer. You don't "look into something" you "Dive deep" on it, etc...

So anyway, that's the vibe I'm feeling now. It really isn't that bad on the right team, I've been here nearly 5 years at this point, its the longest I've ever worked for a company. I get the feeling that as developers we don't get the worst of it, if it's a PM, analyst or management position your mileage will absolutely vary and I suspect for the worse.

ADINSX
Sep 9, 2003

Wanna run with my crew huh? Rule cyberspace and crunch numbers like I do?

quote is not edit :(

But since I've already double posted, you mentioned your friend was a researcher. In my experience, research scientists seem to have it pretty good. I try to work as closely as I can with them since they're doing cool work and are generally easy to work with (very low ego, they do the sciency work and we figure out how to deploy it, scale it, test it, etc etc). The research scientists I know also read and write papers, submit them to conferences, apply for patents, etc etc. It seems genuinely fun and makes me wish I had applied myself more in math class :(

So if that's what you're looking to do, I think AWS is worth checking out.

ADINSX fucked around with this message at 01:34 on Sep 15, 2023

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

well-read undead posted:

(i) Cry and sob hysterically at every occasion, especially when confronted by government clerks

poo poo i'm like 80% there

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome
honestly the amount of things in that list that i make part of my personality is sort of distressing

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome
i would absolutely participate in salvage schemes though, i fuckin love salvage

post hole digger
Mar 21, 2011

rotor posted:

honestly the amount of things in that list that i make part of my personality is sort of distressing

PokeJoe
Aug 24, 2004

hail cgatan


rotor posted:

i would absolutely participate in salvage schemes though, i fuckin love salvage

glomar internet explorer

post hole digger
Mar 21, 2011
I mean:

(a) Give lengthy and incomprehensible explanations when questioned.
(c) Act stupid.
(d) Be as irritable and quarrelsome as possible without getting yourself into trouble.
(e) Misunderstand all sorts of regulations concerning such matters as rationing, transportation, traffic regulations.
(f) Complain against ersatz materials.
(j) Boycott all movies, entertainments, concerts, newspapers which are in any way connected with the quisling authorities.

nudgenudgetilt
Mar 18, 2003

sounds like a guide to yosposting

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome
im sayin

well-read undead
Dec 13, 2022

we're all natural saboteurs

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost

ADINSX posted:

amazon stuff

See that all just sounds like absolute hell on earth to me. I've posted it before but it sounds like Techbro Goldman Sachs in there and there's just not enough money in the world to make that worthwhile to me, being surrounded by a bunch of skull-faced machine-brained psychopaths like that. It sounds like the sort of thing that a person gets sentenced to for committing a crime. Or like some sort of voluntarily undertaken slave labor: harvest 40 more bushels of wheat than you did yesterday or the overseer will beat you. The next day they demand 40 bushels more than that.

What's even the mission that justifies all of this poo poo? Is there an asteroid on a collision course with Earth and we have 60 days and not one millisecond more to build a rocket that will nuke it off course? An even more deadly plague for us to also not give a poo poo about where we're trying to discover anything that will slow down the tide of bodies piling up in the streets? No, we're making sure that some sneering miserable middle aged bald psychopath who already has more money than God can have more money than God, Beelzebub, and Lakshmi put together. Like that's what this is ultimately in service of. It doesn't even make anybody's life that much better or solve any problems that it didn't create to begin with. Humanity did in fact somehow manage to conduct commerce for the past ten thousand years before Internet Walmart came along, centralized everything, and ran the operation like a loving tobacco plantation.

It's not worth it man. You can't take that house with you.

Sapozhnik fucked around with this message at 04:39 on Sep 15, 2023

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
its like 150-900k usd tc p/a, median like 250k. so dont pretend its not significant money, its significant money if low for a tech major

Kazinsal
Dec 13, 2011


it sounds like enough money to spend a couple years there and then retire to the sticks and get someone to run fibre to your cabin, which if your primary concern is comfort for the next ten years or however long you believe humanity has left, should be enough for you

PIZZA.BAT
Nov 12, 2016

:cheers:

the thing that iíve seen play out though is everyone tells themselves, Ďiíll just put in my pound of flesh, pay off the mortgage, and cash in my chips after a few yearsí but no one actually does that. you quickly get accustomed to the new revenue stream and instead expand the mortgage

iím not gonna knock anyone for going that route and maybe itís just me. i know myself and have had several opportunities to go down that path and deliberately havenít because iím honest with myself. it wonít be a temporary thing. iím ok with my current level of hustle affording me a pretty cushy life but i still get to enjoy my life as iím living it. and as someone whoís dealing with a pretty serious medical scare iím really glad i chose this route, because if i was staring death in the face at 35 with nothing but a bloated bank account and zero life to show for it iíd be pretty unhappy right now

FAT32 SHAMER
Aug 16, 2012



PIZZA.BAT posted:

the thing that iíve seen play out though is everyone tells themselves, Ďiíll just put in my pound of flesh, pay off the mortgage, and cash in my chips after a few yearsí but no one actually does that. you quickly get accustomed to the new revenue stream and instead expand the mortgage

iím not gonna knock anyone for going that route and maybe itís just me. i know myself and have had several opportunities to go down that path and deliberately havenít because iím honest with myself. it wonít be a temporary thing. iím ok with my current level of hustle affording me a pretty cushy life but i still get to enjoy my life as iím living it. and as someone whoís dealing with a pretty serious medical scare iím really glad i chose this route, because if i was staring death in the face at 35 with nothing but a bloated bank account and zero life to show for it iíd be pretty unhappy right now

oh poo poo, have some things regressed? :ohdear:

ADINSX
Sep 9, 2003

Wanna run with my crew huh? Rule cyberspace and crunch numbers like I do?

The thing is though this really isnít any worse than some of my previous jobs, some things are worse like the overall management culture (but again: my managers mostly shielded me from this).

But thereís some good stuff, itís fun to work on stuff people might have heard of and actually use for a change vs some niche industry report generator or some make work military contracting project. I was a key contributor to a product launched at re:Invent, and some other work I did just got featured at a huge conference.

So that stuff is fun and the pay is good. But it really all comes down to the team. If your thanklessly maintaining some legacy app or internal tooling (Amazon has its own custom build framework called Brazil thatís been around for 20 years at this point, we all hate it but almost everything uses itÖ imagine working on that)

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost

PIZZA.BAT posted:




i thought you were the miracle man :(

FAT32 SHAMER
Aug 16, 2012



ADINSX posted:

But thereís some good stuff, itís fun to work on stuff people might have heard of and actually use for a change vs some niche industry report generator or some make work military contracting project. I was a key contributor to a product launched at re:Invent, and some other work I did just got featured at a huge conference.

this is a good chunk of why I like working in the auto industry. everyone knows the brand, you get to sit in and touch stuff youíve worked on, and if you already liked cars then half the time youíre like a kid in a candy store

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome
people have started including the cash value of like their health insurance and poo poo in total comp figures and i need it to stop

ADINSX
Sep 9, 2003

Wanna run with my crew huh? Rule cyberspace and crunch numbers like I do?

I worked at a tech bro adtech startup where one night at a bar in San Francisco another dev unironically ask me if the girls were hot enough at the office

I had another job where a manager accidentally dropped the n bomb

I worked at a job where I was so stressed about shipping something that I gave myself prostatitis, I joked to my coworkers that the job was literally annoying the piss out of me but in reality it wasnít very funny

I worked at a place where the gm of the entire office gathered everyone on the floor (like a hundred people) to listen to him berate us about how messy the menís bathrooms were. He said ďif you think Iím kidding try meÖ. Just try me. One of my big professional regrets was not actually walking out: I had another offer but it was just verbal, I hadnít signed yet :(. Anyway at the end he apologized to the women in the audience: it was only the menís bathrooms that were dirty

None of that has happened at Amazon and I make way more, what can you do :shrug:

well-read undead
Dec 13, 2022

well look at mr helljob over here, i guess you win the Worst Career Experience award

ADINSX
Sep 9, 2003

Wanna run with my crew huh? Rule cyberspace and crunch numbers like I do?

well-read undead posted:

well look at mr helljob over here, i guess you win the Worst Career Experience award

I would have been happy just to be nominated this is such an honor

tk
Dec 10, 2003

Nap Ghost
Health insurance is the only reason Iím still working.

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

tk posted:

Health insurance is the only reason Iím still working.

same

post hole digger
Mar 21, 2011

tk posted:

Health insurance is the only reason Iím still working.

probably just a coincidence

tk
Dec 10, 2003

Nap Ghost

post hole digger posted:

probably just a coincidence

Egads!

Feisty-Cadaver
Jun 1, 2000
The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out.

tk posted:

Health insurance is the only reason Iím still working.

my dad kept working into his 70ís until mom ticked over the 65 line specifically for that reason

SardonicTyrant
Feb 26, 2016

BTICH IM A NEWT
熱くなれ夢みた明日を
必ずいつかつかまえる
走り出せ振り向くことなく
&



Sapozhnik posted:

See that all just sounds like absolute hell on earth to me. I've posted it before but it sounds like Techbro Goldman Sachs in there and there's just not enough money in the world to make that worthwhile to me, being surrounded by a bunch of skull-faced machine-brained psychopaths like that. It sounds like the sort of thing that a person gets sentenced to for committing a crime. Or like some sort of voluntarily undertaken slave labor: harvest 40 more bushels of wheat than you did yesterday or the overseer will beat you. The next day they demand 40 bushels more than that.

What's even the mission that justifies all of this poo poo? Is there an asteroid on a collision course with Earth and we have 60 days and not one millisecond more to build a rocket that will nuke it off course? An even more deadly plague for us to also not give a poo poo about where we're trying to discover anything that will slow down the tide of bodies piling up in the streets? No, we're making sure that some sneering miserable middle aged bald psychopath who already has more money than God can have more money than God, Beelzebub, and Lakshmi put together. Like that's what this is ultimately in service of. It doesn't even make anybody's life that much better or solve any problems that it didn't create to begin with. Humanity did in fact somehow manage to conduct commerce for the past ten thousand years before Internet Walmart came along, centralized everything, and ran the operation like a loving tobacco plantation.

It's not worth it man. You can't take that house with you.
i had to check for a sec if this was one of my posts. Well said

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

PIZZA.BAT
Nov 12, 2016

:cheers:

bob dobbs is dead posted:

i thought you were the miracle man :(

i was being dramatic. i gotta get through quite a few dice rolls in the next few weeks but the odds on all of them are pretty decent. i should be fine

the point is this experience has really brought into contrast why you shouldnít metaphorically kill yourself over a job. you genuinely donít know when your last day is going to be

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply