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rotor posted:people have started including the cash value of like their health insurance and poo poo in total comp figures and i need it to stop One recruiter recently tried to entice me by pricing paid overtime into a comp package "You can work and make as much as you want! 4 more hours a week gets you 10% more a year!" She went cold when I asked if I could charge triple for overtime
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Sep 15, 2023 11:35
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rotor posted:people have started including the cash value of like their health insurance and poo poo in total comp figures and i need it to stop Afaict this started with 3rd tier orgs trying to use their worse benefit packages to try to well actually people into thinking they paid more than they do. My response to this sort of thing is usually, "oh if you're including medical coverage, then here's the details of mine; it's the best plan offered and the cost is fully covered by my employer -- please add in the difference in worst case medical costs as salary"
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Sep 15, 2023 15:39
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rotor posted:people have started including the cash value of like their health insurance and poo poo in total comp figures and i need it to stop this isn’t the north american hell world thread
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Sep 15, 2023 16:24
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rotor posted:poo poo i'm like 80% there the most relevant part itt: quote:(11) General Interference with Organizations and Production Private Speech fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Sep 15, 2023 |
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Sep 15, 2023 20:18
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I always got the feeling the author was venting a bit when they wrote that guide
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Sep 16, 2023 07:50
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i personally wouldnt mind working for faang but ive also set myself up as peter gibbons and have no intention to change it. i think i could swing it.
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Sep 16, 2023 08:11
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ADINSX posted:I always got the feeling the author was venting a bit when they wrote that guide indeed, parts of it do describe places i have worked in the past / present
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Sep 16, 2023 08:43
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i had a company tell me very proudly they had a bonus for people who didn't use any sick days and i immediately noped out of there. in switzerland i don't even know if that's legal
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Sep 16, 2023 12:08
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downside of jumping to a smaller shop is that I work a lot more for half of the pay upside I don’t hate every waking moment I’m at work
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Sep 16, 2023 15:22
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I had a phone screen last week where the interviewer asked me what my salary expectations were, at least "ballpark." I told him I couldn't give a number without knowing responsibilities/expectations/equity comp/benefits/etc, and he continued to push that he needed a number. I said a number, and I suspect that it was too high for this position. That was okay in that case, it's a Series A startup that I was okay walking away from by the end of our conversation. But I have a phone screen this week for a position that I DO want (barring red flags in the process). I don't know the right way to navigate that question should it come up again. This job is much more established (post-IPO quite successfully), so I think the number I gave before would be within range. I'm mostly interested in how to deal with a recruiter being pushy about not saying a number first. For a more established job, is it kosher to ask for a salary band for the level they're hiring you at?
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Sep 18, 2023 21:49
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say "competitive". never say a number or even a range, pretend you lost the ability to use numbers counterplays by recruiter. often they say they need to put in a number in the application tracker. tell em to put in 0 and we discuss it later. awkward silence also a play. just be ok w the awkward silence. if you need synonyms you say "market." or you say "i appreciate we know the market in this geography" or other i-forgot-how-to-say-numbers stuff you can ask for their range at the asking and run with that, too, often bob dobbs is dead fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Sep 18, 2023 |
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Sep 18, 2023 21:55
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you can also refuse to even talk to anyone who doesn't post a realistic salary range and tell the recruiters as much
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Sep 18, 2023 22:01
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another good delaying tactic is to say youre more interested in total compensation (equity, 401k match, pto, benefits, etc.) so you dont really have a plain salary number in mind, and besides, we can have this discussion once weve detemined if im a good fit or not for this position
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Sep 18, 2023 22:07
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FMguru posted:another good delaying tactic is to say youre more interested in total compensation (equity, 401k match, pto, benefits, etc.) so you dont really have a plain salary number in mind, and besides, we can have this discussion once weve detemined if im a good fit or not for this position I haven't had time to review recent salary data for the role and location, but I'm sure your number will be competitive.
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Sep 18, 2023 22:20
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leper khan posted:I haven't had time to review recent salary data for the role and location, but I'm sure your number will be competitive.
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Sep 18, 2023 22:23
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leper khan posted:I haven't had time to review recent salary data for the role and location, but I'm sure your number will be competitive. good one
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Sep 18, 2023 22:26
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if they are really pushy you can directly say "I'm not going to say a specific number at this stage." Wrap it with stuff about wanting something competitive, considering total comp, we can discuss it later, etc., but you can be absolutely certain the person asking knows why it is against your interests to say a number, and explicitly saying "I'm not going to discuss that at this stage" is a clear signal to them that you also know.
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Sep 18, 2023 22:28
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yeah and like, if they hard-stop the process there then that also tells you everything you need to know about what their ultimate offer is going to look like
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Sep 18, 2023 22:30
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it takes some confidence though. like, while they _probably_ won't hard-stop on that it is a possibility. i'm at a stage in my career now where that risk is worth it for me, but if i were at a different stage of my career, or currently unemployed and desperate to get some incoming money to pay the mortgage, it'd probably be a different story after all, even if you gently caress up negotiations, you can always just keep interviewing (with the confidence to take a hard line) and bail when something better comes along in general at large orgs, the recruiter being a dumbass has little to no bearing on the dumbassery that you will encounter in your day to day employment. this can be either a good thing or a bad thing
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Sep 18, 2023 23:16
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i remember when i was talking to the amazon comp lady (who was separate from my recruiter) and i'd stupidly told them how much i made. because they asked how much i made. and she was like "ah it says here you're looking for $160k" and i literally laughed at her. i think that was a pretty good recovery from my previous blunder, and the amazon offer did its job of serving as a backstop to get google to stop being stingy as hell (their initial offer was _so bad_)
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Sep 18, 2023 23:19
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Its a Rolex posted:I had a phone screen last week where the interviewer asked me what my salary expectations were, at least "ballpark." I told him I couldn't give a number without knowing responsibilities/expectations/equity comp/benefits/etc, and he continued to push that he needed a number. I said a number, and I suspect that it was too high for this position.
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Sep 18, 2023 23:45
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edit: double post
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Sep 18, 2023 23:46
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Achmed Jones posted:after all, even if you gently caress up negotiations, you can always just keep interviewing (with the confidence to take a hard line) and bail when something better comes along
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Sep 18, 2023 23:55
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Thanks goons. I'll try to firmly defer if push comes to shove. I have the benefit of being in a job right now and it's safe for another year, but I really hate this place + the uncertainty, and the new gig is both a staff role and somewhere doing work similar to what I studied in grad school. Worst case I keep up my current gig and keep looking
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Sep 19, 2023 00:15
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leper khan posted:I haven't had time to review recent salary data for the role and location, but I'm sure your number will be competitive. 100%. if they still press it after this ask them what their budget is for the role since they’re so concerned about it. say you’re fine with moving forwards but if it’s really that much of an issue they’ll need to put up first. if they STILL push you then 99% odds are this is a place you want to avoid so, ‘i understand. give me a call when the team has a budget set aside. have a good day’ *click*
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Sep 19, 2023 00:19
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it’s absolutely ridiculous that they aren’t legally obligated to post a range that isn’t 0-999,999 and it wastes millions of worker hours a year doing that stupid loving dance routine
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Sep 19, 2023 00:42
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FAT32 SHAMER posted:it’s absolutely ridiculous that they aren’t legally obligated to post a range that isn’t 0-999,999 and it wastes millions of worker hours a year doing that stupid loving dance routine
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Sep 19, 2023 00:48
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Some states require a range so for remote jobs you'd often see things like "if in colorado, the compensation range for this position is _____"
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Sep 19, 2023 03:47
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“so if i was in Colorado, about how much would you say this position paid?”
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Sep 19, 2023 03:55
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should I gather from this conversation that the job market has turned and we are telling recruiters to get bent again?
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Sep 19, 2023 03:56
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i wouldn't tell a recruiter to get bent if i were jobless. google just slashed their recruiting org, make of that what you will.
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Sep 19, 2023 03:58
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one of my best salary negotiation moves was to go “I’m also interviewing with 2 other companies, so I’m waiting to see what they offer before stating a strict expectation”. At that point they’re no longer negotiating with me, they’re negotiating with what other employers pay.
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Sep 19, 2023 03:59
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Achmed Jones posted:i wouldn't tell a recruiter to get bent if i were jobless. google just slashed their recruiting org, make of that what you will. recruiters are the canary in the coal mine
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Sep 19, 2023 04:02
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MononcQc posted:one of my best salary negotiation moves was to go “I’m also interviewing with 2 other companies, so I’m waiting to see what they offer before stating a strict expectation”. At that point they’re no longer negotiating with me, they’re negotiating with what other employers pay. the 2 other places dont need to exist, to be absolutely clear
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Sep 19, 2023 05:26
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sure helps if they do tho (hence the figgielands)
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Sep 19, 2023 06:12
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job hunt adventures: at the beginning of august, a company expressed interest in hiring me and i reciprocated. what followed was a series of five (5) interviews with various people in the org where i mostly repeated the same information. after interview 4 i was informed that it came down to me and one other candidate. monday last they call me to schedule yet another interview, this time with the CEO himself. i confirm that i'm available on both dates they proposed, i get told that they'll confirm and get back to me and woosh, radio silence i'm not entirely sure what happened there
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Sep 19, 2023 07:52
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armpit_enjoyer posted:job hunt adventures: one of two things - The CEO just plain got busy, or You’re their second or third string and they’re waiting for a response from #1.
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Sep 19, 2023 10:56
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bob dobbs is dead posted:the 2 other places dont need to exist, to be absolutely clear they don't, but it's better if they do. Like in my case I had to travel to SV for 3 interviews and I had to get the dates aligned and travel stipends aligned so very early on all 3 companies were aware that they weren't alone in the list. I was lucky to do well in all 3 interviews and get 3 offers too, which made the strategy work great. that being said, it may be harder to bluff right now. I don't know what the market is exactly like but I know it's very much worse than what I flew in 4-5 years ago to try that trick. incidentally for my current gig, I did 6 interviews (3 SREs, 3 SWE) and tried a similar trick but I ended up going with the company that had a no-negotiation policy and had the lowest comp suggested, but at this point I wanted to work there, it was a job title change for something I had no official experience in, and they had the best interview process I had been through so I said gently caress it and took it. Still there more than 2.5 years later and not regretting the decision. I got more money now but I had reached the point where I had very marginal benefits from more money and I mainly wanted a job that didn't make me feel like poo poo about what part of the industry I worked in, with good people who have good policies about what a workplace should be like.
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Sep 19, 2023 13:05
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Its a Rolex posted:I have a phone screen this week for a position that I DO want (barring red flags in the process). I don't know the right way to navigate that question should it come up again. This job is much more established (post-IPO quite successfully), so I think the number I gave before would be within range. I'm mostly interested in how to deal with a recruiter being pushy about not saying a number first. For a more established job, is it kosher to ask for a salary band for the level they're hiring you at? FAT32 SHAMER posted:it’s absolutely ridiculous that they aren’t legally obligated to post a range that isn’t 0-999,999 and it wastes millions of worker hours a year doing that stupid loving dance routine assuming you're in figgyland prime, or are interviewing with a company that is there (and why wouldn't you be?) they absolutely are required to tell you the range. achmed, they're also not allowed to ask what your current salary is, or if they do know, base your new salary on it, iirc. not all recruiters know what they're doing, though. i had one recruiter refuse to answer the question, and also ask for my current comp. sent the hiring manager a nasty-gram about it, and ended up not taking the job for other reasons (they wanted to under-level me).
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Sep 19, 2023 16:49
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Raluek posted:assuming you're in figgyland prime, or are interviewing with a company that is there (and why wouldn't you be?) they absolutely are required to tell you the range. achmed, they're also not allowed to ask what your current salary is, or if they do know, base your new salary on it, iirc. some companies give out ranges that are uselessly wide. if there's a statutory barrier to this they're just ignoring it.
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Sep 19, 2023 17:16
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