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qhat
Jul 6, 2015


PokeJoe posted:

are places really that desperate? Maybe I should stop ignoring those architect and principal recruiters

before you do this, check the jobs the principal ones are advertising. 9/10 it’s for node.js or react. but ymmv

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zombienietzsche
Dec 9, 2003
I bit on a few of those recently and those rounds of interviews are coming to a close this week. Some MANGA interviews coming up next week.. I'm at a place in my life where selling my soul for ridiculous sums of money and then bouncing in four years when options vest seems really attractive.

Before those I started interviewing at 6 places, 2 places seem pretty sucky but I went thru the interviews anyway just to get the practice.

I guess what I'm saying is I'm happy I responded to the Senior Staff Engineer (Front End) jobs because I got practice explaining to product managers times I "took a risk and it didn't work out" even if I wouldn't really want that job.

zombienietzsche fucked around with this message at 15:23 on Jan 20, 2022

Not a Children
Oct 9, 2012

Don't need a holster if you never stop shooting.

A friend of mine went to a bootcamp in her mid-20s and went from 70 ->95 -> 135k at the same company over the past 4 years

I've been telling her she could probably jump and make way more but she works for one of the food delivery things and gets 10 free meals a week and full remote plus 80% of your meals paid for and delivered is a hell of a benefit

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013




Not a Children posted:

A friend of mine went to a bootcamp in her mid-20s and went from 70 ->95 -> 135k at the same company over the past 4 years

I've been telling her she could probably jump and make way more but she works for one of the food delivery things and gets 10 free meals a week and full remote plus 80% of your meals paid for and delivered is a hell of a benefit

10 free meals a week is what, extra 5k over 135k base? that is a hell of a benefit indeed, but maybe in a slightly different connotation

jesus WEP
Oct 17, 2004


cinci zoo sniper posted:

10 free meals a week is what, extra 5k over 135k base? that is a hell of a benefit indeed, but maybe in a slightly different connotation
an hour of your day not spent cooking is a bigger bennie than the 5k

PIZZA.BAT
Nov 12, 2016


:cheers:


this really highlights the difference between different regions when it comes to comp. i started in dc and went 55k -> 75k -> 120k -> pittsburgh -> 150k base comp over 8 years. i'd probably be making double or more if i was in sf or ny or something. but then i'd have to live in sf and no loving thank you

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013




jesus WEP posted:

an hour of your day not spent cooking is a bigger bennie than the 5k

don’t cook every day and prepare some advance meals? either way, this is a rubbish benefit - get generic 10-30% annual cash bonus, so 3-9 times more than what they’re getting in food, and then spend 5k out of that on food if you must

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013




stuff that’s not hard cash or equity usually is there to literally just smokescreen that you could actually be getting paid instead

Kernel Sanders
Sep 15, 2020
takeaway is terrible for your health

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

jesus WEP posted:

an hour of your day not spent cooking is a bigger bennie than the 5k

the comparison should be what it would cost to just pay for those same deliveries, in which case if you really use all 520 a year it is probably a bit low, but, eh, i'd have to agree it seems a kind of dubious benefit since i doubt you *should* (or even want) to eat 10 delivery meals a week.

real easy to start liking this kind of benefit, which is why companies keep offering them, but all the more reason to remind oneself that they are invariably way worse than just getting a bit more cash.

Not a Children
Oct 9, 2012

Don't need a holster if you never stop shooting.

Her company's whole thing is that they're "balanced" meals so like 600-800 cals each. Eat 2 a day and it's supposed to be a calibrated diet. All microwave or meant to be eaten cold, with the containers meant to go into recycling. She mostly lived on carry-out and stir-fry before that, so for her it's a good deal.

She could easily be making dozens of $k more but she's happy with the WFH, no-scheduled-hours, barely-any-food prep life


cinci zoo sniper posted:

don’t cook every day and prepare some advance meals? either way, this is a rubbish benefit - get generic 10-30% annual cash bonus, so 3-9 times more than what they’re getting in food, and then spend 5k out of that on food if you must

I've said this in so many words but hell she's happy so I'm happy for her

I love cooking but sometimes I wish my company would just shove calories in my face so I didn't have to think about it

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

i mean, all the reasons other than not paying for food she could no doubt pay for with a fraction of a raise are perfectly fine.

Sleng Teng
May 3, 2009

I enjoy cooking and the time spend doing it :)

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Cybernetic Vermin posted:

the comparison should be what it would cost to just pay for those same deliveries, in which case if you really use all 520 a year it is probably a bit low, but, eh, i'd have to agree it seems a kind of dubious benefit since i doubt you *should* (or even want) to eat 10 delivery meals a week.

real easy to start liking this kind of benefit, which is why companies keep offering them, but all the more reason to remind oneself that they are invariably way worse than just getting a bit more cash.

If you live in SF or NYC your kitchen probably sucks--or you may not even have one--so the appeal is bigger there.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

ultrafilter posted:

If you live in SF or NYC your kitchen probably sucks--or you may not even have one--so the appeal is bigger there.

"the comparison should be what it would cost to just pay for those same deliveries", i am not telling anyone who doesn't feel like it to cook, just don't count getting the food for free as a bigger benefit than what it would cost to pay for exactly the same thing (and people very often do attach themselves to that kind of stuff to an extent way beyond the monetary value).

Corla Plankun
May 8, 2007

improve the lives of everyone
if the meals are pre planned they're worth more than the cost of the food delivery though

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

Corla Plankun posted:

if the meals are pre planned they're worth more than the cost of the food delivery though

when i say "cost of those same deliveries" i don't mean cost of transport, i mean total cost of making the food be a thing you own in your house. i apparently expressed this in a very bad way, because i don't think it is a fundamentally complex idea.

Asleep Style
Oct 20, 2010

I understand logically that the meals are probably worth less than the cash that could be had elsewhere, but if I were in her position I'd find it really hard to leave

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

Asleep Style posted:

I understand logically that the meals are probably worth less than the cash that could be had elsewhere, but if I were in her position I'd find it really hard to leave

yeah, if she likes the job and the real benefits (money, wfh, tasks, etc.) then cool on all that, people often get real stupid about some pretty worthless benefits though.

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013




Corla Plankun posted:

if the meals are pre planned they're worth more than the cost of the food delivery though

Asleep Style posted:

I understand logically that the meals are probably worth less than the cash that could be had elsewhere, but if I were in her position I'd find it really hard to leave

why would you just not pay for them while having way more money. this is not rocket science

The_Franz
Aug 8, 2003

Kernel Sanders posted:

takeaway is terrible for your health

not all takeaway is burgers, pizza or giant lumps of batter with some bits of fish in there

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013




which person makes more money.

John, who is paid 135k per year and annually receives, via their employer, food worth 5k at retail pricing

Mary, who is paid 200k per year and annually pays 5k to John’s employer for the same food that John eats

Kernel Sanders
Sep 15, 2020

The_Franz posted:

giant lumps of batter with some bits of fish in there

get a load of mr paleo over here

Plorkyeran
Mar 22, 2007

To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed
maybe it is a very strange startup which sells exclusively to its own employees

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013




Plorkyeran posted:

maybe it is a very strange startup which sells exclusively to its own employees

yeah and they live on everest and there're no vaguely similar food delivery options available, which then also makes the food to have higher economic value than any potential compensation increase or career growth

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013




to be clear, it's perfectly fine to not care about maximizing the financial output of your career. but you do that by saying "i understand that for me making more money is definitely not important", not by pretending that you're getting a great career deal by receiving (often worthless) corporate swag at (almost always) a fractional value of equivalent compensation.

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice

Plorkyeran posted:

maybe it is a very strange startup which sells exclusively to its own employees

apex vc grift right there

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost

PIZZA.BAT posted:

this really highlights the difference between different regions when it comes to comp. i started in dc and went 55k -> 75k -> 120k -> pittsburgh -> 150k base comp over 8 years. i'd probably be making double or more if i was in sf or ny or something. but then i'd have to live in sf and no loving thank you

theres a reason why i use the word figgieland

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

bob dobbs is dead posted:

theres a reason why i use the word figgieland

because you're a huge weirdo in that way?

tk
Dec 10, 2003

Nap Ghost

cinci zoo sniper posted:

to be clear, it's perfectly fine to not care about maximizing the financial output of your career. but you do that by saying "i understand that for me making more money is definitely not important", not by pretending that you're getting a great career deal by receiving (often worthless) corporate swag at (almost always) a fractional value of equivalent compensation.

Sometimes people don’t convey all the reasoning behind the complex decisions that they make. It seems pretty likely that this person just doesn’t want to leave their job and free food is one of the things they would really miss if they were to leave.

It’s okay to not mix-max every life decision.

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost

Cybernetic Vermin posted:

because you're a huge weirdo in that way?

that too

but location makes a 2, 3, 4x difference

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013




tk posted:

Sometimes people don’t convey all the reasoning behind the complex decisions that they make. It seems pretty likely that this person just doesn’t want to leave their job and free food is one of the things they would really miss if they were to leave.

It’s okay to not mix-max every life decision.

while we agree, what im leaning into is that “free food” is not “free”, and you’re guaranteed to be paying above market for it out of your invisible compensation cap, because your employee will price the sentimental value of it. furthermore, it most likely is not an exclusive commodity that’s difficult or impossible to replace for a lesser fraction of the compensation cap. it’s not a mature factor to base your career decisions upon, unlike simply enjoying your colleagues or projects

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013




the only benefits that are truly free are those that every single job is guaranteed to give you

Asleep Style
Oct 20, 2010

cinci zoo sniper posted:

why would you just not pay for them while having way more money. this is not rocket science

no, I get it, but spending the money feels bad, while getting it for free feels good

tk
Dec 10, 2003

Nap Ghost

cinci zoo sniper posted:

while we agree, what im leaning into is that “free food” is not “free”, and you’re guaranteed to be paying above market for it out of your invisible compensation cap, because your employee will price the sentimental value of it. furthermore, it most likely is not an exclusive commodity that’s difficult or impossible to replace for a lesser fraction of the compensation cap. it’s not a mature factor to base your career decisions upon, unlike simply enjoying your colleagues or projects

I very much disagree that making decisions based on factors that are important to you is not a mature thing to do.

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
most times most places you are not and shouldnt be doing the beep boop homo economicus thing but when you're discussing compensation is definitely an important time to be beepin and boopin

there is food which is not a commodity but its like, your mom baking you an apple pie, not the corporation giving you gift cards to doordash

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

tk posted:

I very much disagree that making decisions based on factors that are important to you is not a mature thing to do.

sure, but it is dumb to make decisions based on what you think is important to you without very careful examination. otherwise the boss will just say "we're all family here" once a week and then go on to gently caress you over for the rest of your life using that hook.

KidDynamite
Feb 11, 2005

making more money elsewhere and becoming a customer seem like a simple solution to this problem? but i definitely get wanting to avoid doing tech interviews.

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013




tk posted:

I very much disagree that making decisions based on factors that are important to you is not a mature thing to do.

whats important about company paying for your hellofresh out of your pocket without telling, when you can pay yourself for your hellofresh and know how much you spend on it? im all for a lot of sentimental factors in career decision making, but this is literal gaslighting by employers, to include ballpits or comfort food as a compensation line item

cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Jan 20, 2022

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tk
Dec 10, 2003

Nap Ghost

Cybernetic Vermin posted:

sure, but it is dumb to make decisions based on what you think is important to you without very careful examination. otherwise the boss will just say "we're all family here" once a week and then go on to gently caress you over for the rest of your life using that hook.

You’re always going to get hosed over. Stop chasing that dragon.

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