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man in the eyeball hat posted:they told me no when I asked, is that usually something that employees can access? it's a coin flip. some will, some won't. if they won't share it, that's something you need to consider when evaluating your offer.
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Oct 25, 2022 23:38
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when management is being cagey/evasive/opaque about the value of your equity they are actually sending your a very clear signal as to its actual value (its zero or close to it)
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Oct 25, 2022 23:56
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bob dobbs is dead posted:its not the odds for the powerball, its the odds for craps. considerably more like 20% than 0.0001%. "rich beyond your wildest imaginings" is more like powerball, but that just generically doesnt happen for employees at all 20% is the probability of making back the salary you gave up by working for a startup.
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Oct 26, 2022 00:06
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hobbesmaster posted:20% is the probability of making back the salary you gave up by working for a startup. accepting lower comp to work at a startup is some 2007 or outside-of-figgieland bullshit
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Oct 26, 2022 00:18
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bob dobbs is dead posted:outside-of-figgieland bullshit  but I thought the startups paying a fuckton of cash to make up for RSUs were the exception and not the rule, hence why Netflix is in “FAANG”
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Oct 26, 2022 01:43
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nudgenudgetilt posted:the phrase you're looking for is "may I see the cap table?" man in the eyeball hat posted:they told me no when I asked, is that usually something that employees can access? If an employee asked to see our cap table I'd respond with no and I'd be thinking HELL loving NO. Cap tables are often treated as company secrets and in many cases for good reason. I don't want an investor that signed on at a $20M cap to know that some other investor got a $12M cap the next day just because they asked for it. They'll come back and demand the same thing or take it out on me next round. Employees def also don't need to know who our investors are, lest one of them get mad and leak something to one of them.
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Oct 26, 2022 02:02
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Got laid off on the 3rd and went nuts throwing my resume at every position that looked like a fit. It's been a stressful few weeks but I got a ton of interviews and did so many terrible coding challenges and assessments. It's wild out there. I hate it. I even got fizzbuzzed for a senior software engineer position. Who the gently caress fizzbuzzes a software engineer with 14 years of experience and a github full of personal and professional projects? Today I got a phone call that one of my top choices is sending me an offer tomorrow. The offer is REALLY GOOD and in a vacuum I'd accept it in a second. But I had another final interview today, and it sounds like they'll probably make an offer too. On top of that I have 3 more interviews at different companies scheduled that are nearing the end of the process. Now I have to decide what to do about the (possibly) two offers, and whether to keep interviewing with the companies that I'm in the middle of the process with. Obviously this is a good position to be in, but now I have decisions to make. I didn't expect to be having to make decisions. I thought I'd be begging for a job for the next six months.
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Oct 26, 2022 02:09
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Frozen Peach posted:Got laid off on the 3rd and went nuts throwing my resume at every position that looked like a fit. It's been a stressful few weeks but I got a ton of interviews and did so many terrible coding challenges and assessments. It's wild out there. I hate it. I even got fizzbuzzed for a senior software engineer position. Who the gently caress fizzbuzzes a software engineer with 14 years of experience and a github full of personal and professional projects? 
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Oct 26, 2022 02:11
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FMguru posted:when management is being cagey/evasive/opaque about the value of your equity they are actually sending your a very clear signal as to its actual value (its zero or close to it) this is correct tho lol
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Oct 26, 2022 02:14
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CarForumPoster posted:If an employee asked to see our cap table I'd respond with no and I'd be thinking HELL loving NO. i've seen three or four cap tables. employees will have company secrets: if they can't keep company secrets, dont hire em also absolute fuckin lol at employees not knowing who your investors are. did they not do the PR hullaballoo when you raised with the lead peep specifically going around to places
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Oct 26, 2022 02:20
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bob dobbs is dead posted:i've seen three or four cap tables. employees will have company secrets: if they can't keep company secrets, dont hire em If I knew which employees werent gonna work out ahead of time I WOULDN'T hire them. Unfortunately I don't have such powers.
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Oct 26, 2022 02:55
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hobbesmaster posted:
that cat has been out of the bag for a long time now. only wide-eyed fresh grads will fall for that and good luck keeping them from being lured away within a year or two
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Oct 26, 2022 03:31
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netflix pays a fuckton of cash, (rest of faang pays rsus and cash to similar tc) but the expectation is that startups pay market rate ish comp, beyond very early pre seed single digit employee number if they can’t pay you marketish rate they either dont value you or cant raise to pay you enough neither is good
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Oct 26, 2022 03:39
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DELETE CASCADE posted:sounds like the founders are stingy with equity but imo that is decent cash comp for a startup. if you want to work for them, i'd take the job and ignore equity. every time they raise more money, ask for more salary. they're flush with cash so why not? i like them but that’s a 33% pay cut for me and idk if i like them that much
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Oct 26, 2022 03:51
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in a well actually posted:netflix pays a fuckton of cash, (rest of faang pays rsus and cash to similar tc) but the expectation is that startups pay market rate ish comp, beyond very early pre seed single digit employee number oh hey I see you've also spoken with every danish startup
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Oct 26, 2022 04:25
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CarForumPoster posted:If an employee asked to see our cap table I'd respond with no and I'd be thinking HELL loving NO. it's been a literal 50/50 for me, with half the startups i've worked for being willing to share, and half politely declining. it's a about a 66.6/33.3 split among companies where the stock eventually paid out for me, in favor of sharing. *shrug*
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Oct 26, 2022 04:27
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champagne posting posted:oh hey I see you've also spoken with every danish startup there are no serious figgielands in europe. t1 cities in the prc used to be pretty close and now they are not. the rest are in america, p much
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Oct 26, 2022 04:30
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bob dobbs is dead posted:no serious figgielands in europe
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Oct 26, 2022 04:32
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bob dobbs is dead posted:there are no serious figgielands in europe. t1 cities in the prc used to be pretty close and now they are not. the rest are in america, p much not even when you adjust for cost of living and national healthcare? also lack of crippling student debt
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Oct 26, 2022 11:31
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4lokos basilisk posted:not even when you adjust for cost of living and national healthcare? also lack of crippling student debt not that I'm aware. Best case scenario is working in or around Copenhagen or Amsterdam. Anywhere else is worse, probably with England being the worst combination of cost of living and low salaries
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Oct 26, 2022 13:14
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champagne posting posted:not that I'm aware. Best case scenario is working in or around Copenhagen or Amsterdam. Anywhere else is worse, probably with England being the worst combination of cost of living and low salaries the number one thing you can learn to increase your salary as a french developer is english lol, then you don't have to work for a company that's only locally competitive.
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Oct 26, 2022 13:18
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distortion park posted:the number one thing you can learn to increase your salary as a french developer is english lol, then you don't have to work for a company that's only locally competitive. this is true everywhere except maybe in Japan, if you want to program computers you really should learn english it has no bearing on the fact that as a senior embedded engineer at a UK multinational I'm getting about 2700 GBP monthly take-home and paying 1650 GBP in bills and rent (and residential taxes) although we do have a french guy on our team Private Speech fucked around with this message at 13:34 on Oct 26, 2022 |
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Oct 26, 2022 13:27
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Private Speech posted:this is true everywhere except maybe in Japan, if you want to program computers you really should learn english yeah english salaries themselves are garbage (outside of a few jobs in london). it's the american or occasionally euro companies which use english as their business language which pay well - to the extent that the best paying french companies operating in france still have a pretty good chance of speaking english in their office
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Oct 26, 2022 13:37
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4lokos basilisk posted:not even when you adjust for cost of living and national healthcare? also lack of crippling student debt with the USD so high at the moment it’s not even a competition. there are tech jobs in Sydney paying 300-400k AUD and I would have defended it on total cost of life grounds but now that’s like 12.50USD.
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Oct 26, 2022 15:53
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Private Speech posted:this is true everywhere except maybe in Japan, if you want to program computers you really should learn english tbh I think this is the real reason nvidia wanted to buy ARM 
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Oct 26, 2022 15:55
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Trimson Grondag 3 posted:with the USD so high at the moment it’s not even a competition. there are tech jobs in Sydney paying 300-400k AUD and I would have defended it on total cost of life grounds but now that’s like 12.50USD. as a counterexample, i am in paris making less than 90k EUR and combined with the salary of my partner it puts us to the income bracket of being able to afford to buy a decent apartment inside paris proper, like 20-30 minutes walking to the office. i also get something like 40+ days off per year too from reading other posts in this subforum you would think that this kind of thing is unobtainium in places like toronto, san francisco and new york if you are making less than 5-600k USD per year. i am basing this on lovely anecdata of course and in the end am still sure that SF and NY salaries are the best even when adjusted for cost-quality of life and things like that. it would just be interesting to know if someone approached this more scientifically as well right now my unscientific gut feeling is that: assuming i get a deece sf bay area compensation (in my mind around 500k USD a year): rent there will be expensive even with a commute time of 1-2h one way. i would probably need to own and maintain a car. i would have more healthcare expenses even without any urgent issues. i would have worse work-life balance than france on the upside, if i was frugal enough i would be able to save enough to retire early in my podunk shithole home country after 4-5 years of grind distortion park posted:the number one thing you can learn to increase your salary as a french developer is english lol, then you don't have to work for a company that's only locally competitive. this is funny to me because i am a mostly english speaking developer in france and i feel (felt) like in order to get a significant level up in terms of salary i also need to be able to work in a french language environment. maybe full bilingualism and being good at your job is what gets you in the maximum figgies niche here
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Oct 26, 2022 16:26
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4lokos basilisk posted:this is funny to me because i am a mostly english speaking developer in france and i feel (felt) like in order to get a significant level up in terms of salary i also need to be able to work in a french language environment. maybe full bilingualism and being good at your job is what gets you in the maximum figgies niche here that's probably true, I only really have experience of the VC funded startup sector. I'd guess that if you work in defense tech or something it's different - but ime they don't pay top dollar anyway.
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Oct 26, 2022 16:38
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4lokos basilisk posted:as a counterexample, i am in paris making less than 90k EUR and combined with the salary of my partner it puts us to the income bracket of being able to afford to buy a decent apartment inside paris proper, like 20-30 minutes walking to the office. i also get something like 40+ days off per year too yeah I think even a scientific approach would have a lot of caveats, like how many USD denominated luxury goods like RTX 4090s etc you are buying. also as someone who has had birth to death UHC it's hard for me to really understand what that poo poo costs in the US. I would have assumed that paris realestate was more expensive than that, the more you know etc. In AU I have the 90 min commute because I wanted a quarter acre block that the dog could run around and we could grow veggies on, but if we lived in the city for the same money we could have a flat and a 20 min commute. with USD rates now though, even a senior product gig at a boring company like adobe or whatever would pay enough for my partner to quit her job if I could do it remote.
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Oct 26, 2022 16:49
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theres no such thing as a tech job paying the proper figgies that doesnt also come with great health insurance
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Oct 26, 2022 17:04
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even great health insurance is a complete pain in the rear end though
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Oct 26, 2022 17:09
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bob dobbs is dead posted:theres no such thing as a tech job paying the proper figgies that doesnt also come with great health insurance this is true but even under the best insurance plan the payor of last resort is you so the long tail of cost risk never goes away completely. i wouldn't necessarily begrudge anyone willing to pay a premium to avoid that.
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Oct 26, 2022 17:11
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usa figgies are great and all but if i ever get married and have kids (actual lmao) then i'm going to move my resulting family back to the uk and try to figure something out there so that my kids can go to a school where they don't have regular active shooter drills
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Oct 26, 2022 17:21
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e: nm, something something UK pre-uni education expensive, probably not for an ex-US developer
Private Speech fucked around with this message at 03:37 on Oct 27, 2022 |
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Oct 26, 2022 17:24
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Is it praxis to answer every linkedin recruiter with "what's the salary" then "that's not enough money to hire a competent performer for this position"?
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Oct 27, 2022 13:59
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Not a Children posted:Is it praxis to answer every linkedin recruiter with "what's the salary" then "that's not enough money to hire a competent performer for this position"? they clearly don’t know it yet so keep telling them
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Oct 27, 2022 15:49
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one of the few good things about getting older is I have found recruiters provide salaries at the start of the conversation more often, presumably because they know I'm well aware of what I should be paid at this point.
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Oct 27, 2022 16:56
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Lots of salty recruiter calls today as I tell them I have a job offer and am pulling out of consideration on other opportunities I was applying to and interviewing with. The offer ended up even better than what they mentioned over the phone, and I can't turn it down. It's basically my first choice, and the numbers are even higher than I had originally asked for. I'm so excited!
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Oct 27, 2022 18:40
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congrats. lol at recruiters not just replying "ok stay in touch'
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Oct 27, 2022 19:21
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Frozen Peach posted:Lots of salty recruiter calls today as I tell them I have a job offer and am pulling out of consideration on other opportunities I was applying to and interviewing with. 
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Oct 27, 2022 19:50
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KidDynamite posted:congrats. my best was a redhat recruiter who FLIPPED. 'i knew the moment you walked through the door all you cared about was money. we only hire people who are above that' like ok thanks for letting me know you were looking for suckers
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Oct 27, 2022 19:51
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