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bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
figgieland is not a state of mind. it is the urban parts of the north of the states of california and washington. also nyc and austin maybe

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4lokos basilisk
Jul 17, 2008


yes, by that i meant that if the position i am interviewing for is located in central europe, it means that no matter how much leetcode i crack, i am not going to get silicon valley compensation levels out of it. which changes the calculus of opportunity cost for these things

Chopstick Dystopia
Jun 16, 2010


lowest high and highest low loser of: WEED WEE
k

4lokos basilisk posted:

yes, by that i meant that if the position i am interviewing for is located in central europe, it means that no matter how much leetcode i crack, i am not going to get silicon valley compensation levels out of it. which changes the calculus of opportunity cost for these things

it is extremely frustrating to interview at ~30 person fart app businesses that want to interview like places with billings in the billions and a hundreds of thousands of applicants, good signal to pass imo

here at least I've found that the most desirable places also tend to have the most reasonable interviews though

it's kind of like how higher comp places tend to also have better work-life balance

AnimeIsTrash
Jun 30, 2018

4lokos basilisk posted:

maybe the places that have told me to read ctci and grind leetcode are just so desirable as employers that they can ask this sort of thing from their candidates and then still have their pick after

someone smarter than me did say in this thread that yeah this is just the song and dance that you have to do when getting a faang job, and its a one time investment for a ticket to figgieland. this probably rings true a lot, however i am also not in silicon valley so i very much doubt doing this song and dance will get me to a figgieland

The frustrating part is that every company seems to have adopted something like that. My company did so about 2 years ago, and my manager constantly complains about losing potential hires to Amazon, and Microsoft.

I'm too dumb for faang jobs, just need something that still pays good but for dummies like me.

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

bob dobbs is dead posted:

figgieland is not a state of mind. it is the urban parts of the north of the states of california

[extremely humboldt voice] i think u mean central california lol

AnimeIsTrash
Jun 30, 2018

rotor posted:

[extremely humboldt voice] i think u mean central california lol

thats figgieland prime

post hole digger
Mar 21, 2011
1,000 year eureka empire after the water wars.

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

post hole digger posted:

1,000 year eureka empire after the water wars.

fun fact: while most of the california tectonic plate or whatever its called is actually moving OVER the oceanic plate, the part of the earth eureka is on is actually moving UNDER the oceanic plate, which i feel is appropriate.

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome
welcome to ... the subduction zone!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascadia_subduction_zone

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



bob dobbs is dead posted:

try to suborn those too. we'll see yellow unions in a bit, i think)

i have no evidence, but i do have a strong suspicion that the alphabet workers union is one of these. i think that the AWU membership believes they're fighting the good fight, but i very much think they're a kept organization

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice

4lokos basilisk posted:

maybe the places that have told me to read ctci and grind leetcode are just so desirable as employers that they can ask this sort of thing from their candidates and then still have their pick after

someone smarter than me did say in this thread that yeah this is just the song and dance that you have to do when getting a faang job, and its a one time investment for a ticket to figgieland. this probably rings true a lot, however i am also not in silicon valley so i very much doubt doing this song and dance will get me to a figgieland

yeah the leetcode stuff originates from the faangs, which are so rich that they attract a zillion candidates but so big that there's no particular thing they need from any individual one of them. so they just crank the difficulty of the interviews up until they're hiring generic computer touchers at the rate they want. in practice, this means that the thing they end up selecting for (above a baseline technical floor) is a candidate's willingness to accommodate an arbitrary interview process.

then this got cloned by companies that are neither rich nor huge, and, welp

Dukes Mayo Clinic
Aug 31, 2009

post hole digger posted:

country musician

guitars, old imacs, and hillbilly music :banjo:

CPColin
Sep 9, 2003

Big ol' smile.

rotor posted:

we have a shitload of guidelines and approved questions to ask and poo poo and i never pay attention to any of them.

When I interviewed for my current job, five years ago, I offered to make the ten-minute journey to the office so we wouldn't have to dick around with Zoom, but they said no, they had to treat all the first-round interviewees exactly the same and having some come in when others were over Zoom could lead to discrimination. They also had a sheet with the exact list of questions to ask and looked visibly uncomfortable when I tried to have an actual conversation.

Oh yeah and their mics didn't work when the call started and nobody made any kind of gesture the first three times I asked if they could hear me. Gee, I wonder why I wanted to just come into the building.

4lokos basilisk
Jul 17, 2008


i am doing a process where i think all the interviews will be over zoom but they have an office in town and they have mandatory on site a few days a week. i guess i am only doing this for practice really, because i want full remote and come on guys if you want people to come to your glorious office, wouldn't it be nice if you show it to prospective candidates too

4lokos basilisk fucked around with this message at 20:59 on May 29, 2023

Mr. Crow
May 22, 2008

Snap City mayor for life

raminasi posted:

what did you say lol

(i have no idea what i would say)

i was with my boss so we just kinda were dumbfounded and said "ughh no lets work through the problem" and then we painfully pulled them through it before ending it.

ill probably talk to him about killing it early from now on though cause yikes

Dijkstracula
Mar 18, 2003

You can't spell 'vector field' without me, Professor!

rotor posted:

[extremely humboldt voice] i think u mean central california lol

ordinarily I'd be :mad: about this but it's impossible to be mad at humboldt, so, :shobon:

DELETE CASCADE
Oct 25, 2017

i haven't washed my penis since i jerked it to a phtotograph of george w. bush in 2003
there's more people in the city of san mateo than in all of mendocino county. humboldt county is a bit more populated but not by much. it's just trees and bankrupt weed farms up there

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



i really like mendo and if it is ever affordable i would 100% be down to live* in the woods there once school quality for LJ is no longer a consideration

* must not be at significant danger of being consumed by flame

Shame Boy
Mar 2, 2010

Achmed Jones posted:

i really like mendo and if it is ever affordable i would 100% be down to live* in the woods there once school quality for LJ is no longer a consideration

* must not be at significant danger of being consumed by flame

i have some bad news about the flammability of basically every single wooded area in california

post hole digger
Mar 21, 2011
mendocino is also out of water but yea it rules

AnimeIsTrash
Jun 30, 2018

post hole digger posted:

mendocino is also out of water but yea it rules

time to use those figgies to become a warlord

KidDynamite
Feb 11, 2005

When you are doing a system design-y type interview should you try to pre-empt the interviewer asking "what about this situation...?" I'm thinking about the interview I did today and there were quite a few times I was asked that and there were a few times I could have covered the question if I had switched topics. I guess I'm at the point were I'm trying to figure out if I should re-evaluate my system design strategy. Like is the point to switch topics to cover everything you can think of or have an organic conversation with the interviewer leading?

Chopstick Dystopia
Jun 16, 2010


lowest high and highest low loser of: WEED WEE
k

KidDynamite posted:

When you are doing a system design-y type interview should you try to pre-empt the interviewer asking "what about this situation...?" I'm thinking about the interview I did today and there were quite a few times I was asked that and there were a few times I could have covered the question if I had switched topics. I guess I'm at the point were I'm trying to figure out if I should re-evaluate my system design strategy. Like is the point to switch topics to cover everything you can think of or have an organic conversation with the interviewer leading?

This is tough because you kind of have to vibe this out with the interviewer or straight up ask their preferred approach, people react differently. If I have a question I think it's better to ask it, if only so I can stop thinking about it, but I then try to look at the interviewer's body language or if they pause for a bit before answering I'll say something like "sorry if I'm jumping ahead" and then you can ask if they prefer to get these queries as they come up or stick to a more narrow scope.

Ideally your questions are relevant to the design goals in which case asking them is part of the interview.

As an interviewer, the worst is when the candidate hardly talks at all and just draws on the board or only gives short direct responses to explicit questions. Thinking out loud about the problem is great, just don't bloviate.

Truman Peyote
Oct 11, 2006



this might not be satisfying but imo you should find opportunities for both. The interviewer should be impressed if you anticipate problems or complications. You can phrase these as questions, such as "should I be concerned about scaling this to terabytes of data?" I would also expect that most interviewers are going to introduce complications or contradict your assumptions no matter what; they're looking to see how you adapt and to hear you weigh pros and cons of different approaches.

I think the point is more to have an organic conversation, and each of you should exchange leading it. While you're talking, bring up complications or common sources of problems that you see; when the interviewer asks about something, answer it directly and address how it might change your previous decisions. One strategy might be to state assumptions you're making, say a few words about how you might handle it if they aren't true, and let the interviewer ask you for more detail.

Cat Face Joe
Feb 20, 2005

goth vegan crossfit mom who vapes



is anyone here in recruiting and if yes how is that working for you

post hole digger
Mar 21, 2011
i have some friends that were until recently and my general understanding of the situation is that the recruiting field is a bloodbath right now lol. at most places they were the first ones cut and very few new roles have opened up since 2022. a fair number of them have gotten out of recruiting completely.

post hole digger fucked around with this message at 19:46 on May 31, 2023

Truman Peyote
Oct 11, 2006



looks like i will be recruiting in a few weeks. been in a hiring freeze since january.

Pie Colony
Dec 8, 2006
I AM SUCH A FUCKUP THAT I CAN'T EVEN POST IN AN E/N THREAD I STARTED

KidDynamite posted:

When you are doing a system design-y type interview should you try to pre-empt the interviewer asking "what about this situation...?" I'm thinking about the interview I did today and there were quite a few times I was asked that and there were a few times I could have covered the question if I had switched topics. I guess I'm at the point were I'm trying to figure out if I should re-evaluate my system design strategy. Like is the point to switch topics to cover everything you can think of or have an organic conversation with the interviewer leading?

you're never going to be able to pre-empt every interviewer question because there's a near infinite amount of things to talk about. ask questions at the start, write down the use cases you need to support, state any assumptions, make a high level design, then ask the interviewer where to go from there (e.g. low level details like db schemas, scalability, reliability, security, monitoring, etc etc). if the interviewer pre-empts you before reaching this point, it's likely you missed something, don't worry about it but do address it. it's supposed to be a conversation but you should be doing 80-90% of the talking

KidDynamite
Feb 11, 2005

KidDynamite posted:

When you are doing a system design-y type interview should you try to pre-empt the interviewer asking "what about this situation...?" I'm thinking about the interview I did today and there were quite a few times I was asked that and there were a few times I could have covered the question if I had switched topics. I guess I'm at the point were I'm trying to figure out if I should re-evaluate my system design strategy. Like is the point to switch topics to cover everything you can think of or have an organic conversation with the interviewer leading?

guess these feelings were there because i got a rejection. 3 points brought up, solution was to stateful and fragile, i tied up some writing to a persistant log and some network requests together so that would lead to a nightmare of errors, and i didn't mention resource management at all.


the last one is a huge goof that as an ios engineer i should have considered from the jump, and once i read those words i immediately came up with what i think would be an adequate solution. it's definitely better than what i came up with.


either way feels bad. i'm going to take a break and try to come up with a study plan. my job doesn't give me enough experience in certain situations and can not provide them at all for others(sole ios eng so any knowledge gained from team interactions i have to read about or recall from my previous job). maybe i'll build an app of my own to get some experience in technologies i don't touch during work.

i feel like layoffs are coming for my org so studying instead of interviewing is hard to come to terms with, but interviewing in this way has only resulted in a single offer in the past 2 years.

Corla Plankun
May 8, 2007

improve the lives of everyone

KidDynamite posted:

either way feels bad. i'm going to take a break

you should keep doin' interviews because a lot of the ways to gently caress up an interview are related to anxiety and being able to perform under pressure and that gets easier with practice

RokosCockatrice
Feb 19, 2004

I have a lot of points to make and I will make them later.

post hole digger posted:

i have some friends that were until recently and my general understanding of the situation is that the recruiting field is a bloodbath right now lol. at most places they were the first ones cut and very few new roles have opened up since 2022. a fair number of them have gotten out of recruiting completely.

They probably left to pursue their dreams of drowning puppies and posting comments on youtube

Cat Face Joe
Feb 20, 2005

goth vegan crossfit mom who vapes



post hole digger posted:

i have some friends that were until recently and my general understanding of the situation is that the recruiting field is a bloodbath right now lol. at most places they were the first ones cut and very few new roles have opened up since 2022. a fair number of them have gotten out of recruiting completely.

hmmm. i do not program the computer so maybe non-computer recruiting isn't as terrible right now

post hole digger
Mar 21, 2011

Cat Face Joe posted:

hmmm. i do not program the computer so maybe non-computer recruiting isn't as terrible right now

ya these are all in-house recruiters at bay area tech companies of various sizes so ymmv

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
youtube comments are actually surprisingly civil nowadays and have been for a while, i have no idea what happened

Symbolic Butt
Mar 22, 2009

(_!_)
Buglord

Sapozhnik posted:

youtube comments are actually surprisingly civil nowadays and have been for a while, i have no idea what happened

I think the video authors moderate the comment sections way more actively nowadays by deleting comments and shadow banning people

this is also why it's super rare to find any criticism in the comment section now.

PIZZA.BAT
Nov 12, 2016

:cheers:

internet comment etiquette erik has shown the masses the enlightened path 🙏

Cat Face Joe
Feb 20, 2005

goth vegan crossfit mom who vapes



post hole digger posted:

ya these are all in-house recruiters at bay area tech companies of various sizes so ymmv

yeah, im considering outside recruiting. i need a change but want the stuff i know to be useful and bit starting from the very bottom

Pie Colony
Dec 8, 2006
I AM SUCH A FUCKUP THAT I CAN'T EVEN POST IN AN E/N THREAD I STARTED
well after a year of doing nothing (and loving it) i'm going back to work. offers were slightly lower than what i saw the last time around, maybe because of the economy, but i'm also going from faang to faang-lite(-lite?), and also i hosed up negotiating. still, a TC in the low 300s isn't exactly going to have me living paycheck to paycheck

rumor on blind is the job market is starting to rebound though, i'm going to continue applying to faangs while all this interview poo poo is still fresh in my mind

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

KidDynamite posted:

guess these feelings were there because i got a rejection. 3 points brought up, solution was to stateful and fragile, i tied up some writing to a persistant log and some network requests together so that would lead to a nightmare of errors, and i didn't mention resource management at all.


the last one is a huge goof that as an ios engineer i should have considered from the jump, and once i read those words i immediately came up with what i think would be an adequate solution. it's definitely better than what i came up with.


either way feels bad. i'm going to take a break and try to come up with a study plan. my job doesn't give me enough experience in certain situations and can not provide them at all for others(sole ios eng so any knowledge gained from team interactions i have to read about or recall from my previous job). maybe i'll build an app of my own to get some experience in technologies i don't touch during work.

i feel like layoffs are coming for my org so studying instead of interviewing is hard to come to terms with, but interviewing in this way has only resulted in a single offer in the past 2 years.
I find it helpful always thinking and articulating in terms of trade offs. After you mention a proposed solution you can talk about which design goals it meets, what the downsides are, and why those downsides are acceptable given the outlined scenario. If the interviewer feels differently, that the downside you mentioned isn't acceptable, they'll usually tell you and give you a chance to fix your implementation.

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Pie Colony
Dec 8, 2006
I AM SUCH A FUCKUP THAT I CAN'T EVEN POST IN AN E/N THREAD I STARTED
some other stats:

55 applications (across 4 different iterations of my resume)
10 initial phone talks
7 coding screens
5 onsites (would be 6 but i declined one)
3 offers

also, if anyone says work gaps on your resume are a problem, they're not. you can just lie about them

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