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Feisty-Cadaver
Jun 1, 2000
The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out.
are you saying a company started 5 years ago chose loving _rails_ as the tech? on purpose?

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Feisty-Cadaver
Jun 1, 2000
The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out.

EVGA Longoria posted:

how do y'all handle recruiting while interviewing?

if you find someone amazing you keep their contact deets and try and poach them if your new job is not hot garbage

Feisty-Cadaver
Jun 1, 2000
The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out.

inset posted:

Second part is basically setting innerHTML of an element to '', ... maybe the test is bad.

if you are asking an interview question where innerHTML is at all involved in 2018, you deserve a swift kick in the genitals.

Feisty-Cadaver
Jun 1, 2000
The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out.

Captain Foo posted:

that's extremely strong gently caress-you language

yeah find a new job somewhere else holy poo poo

Feisty-Cadaver
Jun 1, 2000
The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out.
I work with a guy who quit a job on the first day (tbf he was a consultant)

he said “I asked for and require xyz to do my job” and they said “well you can’t have that”

so he was like: see ya

Feisty-Cadaver
Jun 1, 2000
The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out.
all of your questions should be geared towards answering the question:

Does this help inform me that this person will be successful in this role?

Is knowing that 8 bits are in a byte critical to that job? Good question. Otherwise: bad question and a waste time for the both of you.

Feisty-Cadaver
Jun 1, 2000
The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out.

brand engager posted:

"what do developers even do on a day to day basis"

read yospos duh

Feisty-Cadaver
Jun 1, 2000
The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out.
it is entirely possible to work for a game company in recent years and have normal hours, interesting problems to solve, and not be treated like disposable garbage.

it's also possible to have the exact opposite experience; it's highly dependent on a) your role and b) the company you work for.

Feisty-Cadaver
Jun 1, 2000
The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out.

Dirk Pitt posted:

Should engineering managers write code?

No. EMs should have a solid understanding when other devs are talking about technical garbage, but their job is to help their devs be better devs. If they wanna scratch the itch and bang out some util or w/e occasionally go for it, but that is like their last responsibility.

Dirk Pitt posted:

What do you do when a fellow engineering manager at a company of 60 says they want to focus on ‘process development’ and engineering directorship when they are only 2 months at the company?

that's kinda impossible to answer. Is your current process awesome and everyone is happy with it? do you deliver New Stuff with few bugs really fast?

they might know your SDLC is garbage compared to a good shop, but they might also be a total self-serving wanker.

Feisty-Cadaver
Jun 1, 2000
The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out.

cheque_some posted:

read the pro publica article (https://features.propublica.org/ibm/ibm-age-discrimination-american-workers/) and then ask yourself if you're currently, or some day will be old

- i've literally never met or heard of anyone using IBM's cloud

one guy on my new team had a single VM in ibmcloud hosting a tiny app.

I made him move it to AWS, where literally everything else in the company lives.

Feisty-Cadaver
Jun 1, 2000
The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out.

Pie Colony posted:

it was about how to convert a recursive program into an iterative one making use of an explicit stack

no. that’s a lovely question unless your job is 90% converting recursive functions into iterative ones. should a non-garbage programmer know how to do that? of course.

like I’ve said before, the purpose of the interview is to judge “is this person going to be successful in this role?”

judge them on poo poo they are actually going to do in their role

Feisty-Cadaver
Jun 1, 2000
The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out.

JawnV6 posted:

great idea!

ok i checked and its a bunch of proprietary garbage, and for Some Reason i can't get candidates to sign extensive NDA's for a white boarding session??

if you can't generalize what that person would do in that role with Whatever Proprietary Garbage you're using into meaningful questions, you are a bad interviewer and should practice more to get better.

and yeah, maybe the role he applied for was converting recursing functions into iterative ones for, uh performance reasons or something. in that case it's a Good Question.

Feisty-Cadaver
Jun 1, 2000
The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out.
what i am badly failing to get across is Ciaphas has, iirc, 10+ years of experience. when i interview people if i'm lucky I get 90 minutes with candidates to do tech deep dive interviews. asking basically "do you know recursion" is a waste of time. that's the sort of thing I ask juniors in college who are looking for an internship. plus stuff like how's a hashmap work, what's the diff b/w a list and a set, the sort of basic stuff that will tell you if they can maybe code their way out of a paper bag.

with people like ciaphas you want to know how far down the rabbit hole they can go in whatever tech stack. you want to find the point where they say "i don't know." e.g. if you're a good js dev you will know how webkit renders a frame in detail, and how to diagnose and fix your poo poo-slow webpack monstrosity.

maybe they did do this and i'm just reading into a bad question too much

ps. looking through hundreds and hundreds of college kids resumes after a job fair is extremely unpleasant, i don't recommend it.

Feisty-Cadaver
Jun 1, 2000
The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out.

bob dobbs is dead posted:

you don't get any fewer non-fizzbuzzers if you advertise for a senior dev position. you don't get any more than for the junior dev but you don't get any fewer. it's disappointing but it's how it is. you must give them a computer touching test, you can't avoid this

Yep agreed, and this is a great fit for a phone screen. Have a bunch of rapid-fire relatively easy to answer questions that you would expect anyone with some level of experience to know. If they flub a couple no big deal, but if they are on the strugglebus the whole time, hard pass. Spend ~45 minutes on the "are you an imposter or not" stuff, then 15 mins of letting them ask questions about the gig, concerns, or whatever. If you are the interviewee, this is a great time to ask some of the questions in the OP.

If you're asking fizz buzz in an onsite either the interview has gone drastically sideways b/c the candidate is extremely nervous, or bullshit their way this far (this has happened to me once or twice), or maybe you need to revisit what you're asking in the phone screen.

Feisty-Cadaver fucked around with this message at 08:17 on Mar 9, 2019

Feisty-Cadaver
Jun 1, 2000
The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out.

bob dobbs is dead posted:

0 work experience shouldn't mean 0 programming experience. ask about projects. school projects, side projects, whatever. also this is when those lame-rear end algorithms questions come in actually unironically handy

To add to that, having interviewed a million college kids: If they've only done school assignments, almost certainly don't hire them. Even if their side projects are silly trivial things, that's still ok. Find out what they're passionate about or interested in and see if they can apply that to whatever their day-to-day would be.

otherwise, here's a handful of stuff I'll usually ask, copy pasta'd from an old text file
CS Concepts from School: Data Structures, Algorithms, Big-O run time, recursion
How does a Set work? HashMap?
What design/coding choices make code easier to test?
How do you test performance?
Where do you normally see performance issues in the code?
How would you go about diagnosing a performance problem in an application?
What is an example of a project/code you are proud of?
What's the most difficult programming challenge you have experienced?
problems you have seen in the real world that you think you could solve
The Bank Account Concurrency problem
How could simultaneous deposits in a multi-threaded environment cause issues for maintaining an accurate balance
What are the different ways you could make this thread safe
How does Google Maps work? When I type 123 sesame st into google, how does it know what address I want?

Feisty-Cadaver
Jun 1, 2000
The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out.
college kids usually aren't quite that jaded yet

Feisty-Cadaver
Jun 1, 2000
The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out.

qhat posted:

I know people who reject PhDs just because they're PhDs. I don't blame them sometimes. Some of the absolute worst engineers I've ever known have been PhD alumni from prestigious universities.

I'd never outright reject a PhD, but I definitely put a lot more emphasis on "do you know how to write shippable maintainable code?" than I would for someone w 10 years experience working in industry.

Feisty-Cadaver
Jun 1, 2000
The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out.
oh yeah sorry - wasn't implying you were in the PHDS BAD camp.

I've hired a handful of PhDs over the years and while they have a proclivity to write Long As gently caress emails/documents, they were good people and productive members of whatever team

Feisty-Cadaver
Jun 1, 2000
The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out.
I kinda almost did that to an old coworker years ago. he didn’t give me a heads up, but he was trying to get security clearance. so I kept getting voicemails from so and so at the Navy, which I obviously ignored.

eventually navy guy showed up at my front door and said “I want to talk to you about old coworker X for xyz reasons and then it finally clicked. he got clearance in the end.

around the same time his wife was interviewing for a prof job at Virginia tech. they were touring the campus and went up the stairwell to find the next floors door locked, which was unexpected, so they left. on the news later that night they found out who locked it

Feisty-Cadaver
Jun 1, 2000
The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out.

Hughlander posted:

I once received a resume that was 34 pages long.

that dude fuckin' owns

Feisty-Cadaver
Jun 1, 2000
The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out.

Schadenboner posted:

I once had an interview where the guy sat there reading my resume then got up and walked out of the room. 15 minutes later the HR Girl came in and walked me out.

It was the most honest feedback I’ve ever gotten in a hiring process, ever.

:(

E: Including processes where I ended up getting the job!

goddamn dude. I hope it was at least a job post says we need X, engineer who actually knows what the job is says it needs Y situation

Feisty-Cadaver
Jun 1, 2000
The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out.
my favorite "quit and came back" story was a guy I worked with who left his IT gig to become a pilot full-time.

9/11 was two weeks later.

hope he did escape IT at some point, he was a good dude.

Feisty-Cadaver
Jun 1, 2000
The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out.

hobbesmaster posted:

i feel like cosmos, dynamo, cassandra, really deserve to be in a different category from mongodb when you're talking about nosql

I've posted this a couple times but mongo these days is fine if it fits your use case of "I need to store an actual json document full of business garbage and it cannot go in the clod"

it used to be the mongo case that "whoops we lost yer data sorry" was a possibility, but it's really not these days.

I'd still rather use whatever dumb data store from AWS though.

Feisty-Cadaver
Jun 1, 2000
The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out.
i used to do a lot of recruiting at universities and would occasionally gives talks about relevant tech stuff. one time during q&a some kid started a reddit thread "documenting" what i was saying.

only he was just making stuff up whole cloth, saying we were gonna cancel this and that feature or whatever, etc.

about 30 minutes afterwards i got a call from the director who was like "WTF YOU IDIOT WHY DID YOU SAY ALL THIS STUFF?" which obvs had me really confused until i figured out what had happened.

we didn't hire that particular kid.

Feisty-Cadaver
Jun 1, 2000
The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out.


ratbert90 posted:

The free IDE was netbeans LOL

gently caress me, I’d quit too.

Feisty-Cadaver
Jun 1, 2000
The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out.
brutal own by HR there

s like the Bloody situation but in reverse

Feisty-Cadaver
Jun 1, 2000
The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out.
Yeah, unless you are in imminent danger of losing your job, that is really not compelling. If you're truly interested I'd push back hard

- "you can be CTO in 5-10 years" is meaningless unless it's in writing (and then it's still meaningless)
- a whole two weeks PTO and they're gonna micromanage you taking a half day during a pandemic?
- and they're not gonna give you an allowance for a fuckin' laptop?


seconding the "I'd only do this for a huge pile of equity" sentiment

Feisty-Cadaver
Jun 1, 2000
The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out.

Achmed Jones posted:

lol please tell me where "mother tong" is a common expression

the cat thread several years ago

Feisty-Cadaver
Jun 1, 2000
The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out.

vonnegutt posted:

Google-image search the color "millennial pink"

absolutely not

Feisty-Cadaver
Jun 1, 2000
The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out.
interviewed a person today whose current job is working on the client-side licensing part of Solidworks.

I honestly kinda felt bad that I don't wanna move forward w/ them (interview went poorly), nobody deserves that sorta drudgery day to day.

goon speed mediocre programmer person, hope you find greener pastures

Feisty-Cadaver
Jun 1, 2000
The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out.

polyester concept posted:

another place sent me like an iq test, i guess to filter out the complete idiots? lol i dunno what to think about that

that's where you think i 100% do not want to work with these psychopaths

send them a scan of your skull and ask if you pass

Feisty-Cadaver
Jun 1, 2000
The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out.
does that mean you have 25 direct reports, or is there another layer in there? and you need to hire more and stuff is on fire all the time?

I don't know the EU comp situation so can't really answer your question but that is a Not Great situation to be in. Having a good mentor is nice.

Feisty-Cadaver
Jun 1, 2000
The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out.

echinopsis posted:

if there is a venn diagram of pharmacy/health and computers, I need to be in the middle of it.

my dad was a family doc for decades and in his late 50's made the switch to tech, specifically around the (un)usability of EMRs.

the EMR his private practice bought was so bad he quit his fuckin' job to try and make them suck less. he'd always been interested in computer usability stuff but still.

now he's retired and just rides his bike around everywhere.

there's prolly a pharma-adjacent angle there somewhere

Feisty-Cadaver
Jun 1, 2000
The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out.
i had a coworker years ago who would ask if i wanted to order "chink food" for lunch on a regular basis

meaning chinese food from a local place that was honestly p good but goddamn dude

Feisty-Cadaver
Jun 1, 2000
The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out.

tk posted:

Health insurance is the only reason I’m still working.

my dad kept working into his 70’s until mom ticked over the 65 line specifically for that reason

Feisty-Cadaver
Jun 1, 2000
The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out.

elbkaida posted:

I feel like the bar for not passing probation is incredibly high. A new hire would have to gently caress up in spectacular fashion to make it worth going through the hiring process again.

it’s safe to say everyone in yospos is safe but I have been given a new employee who asked how to convert an Integer to an int in Java (this was a long time ago) and needless to say they didn’t pass their prob period

Feisty-Cadaver
Jun 1, 2000
The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out.

Share Bear posted:

i get the frustration, but being both too clever (the f# example) or not doing a dumb simple thing and commenting about the limitations of the environment in a code comment, and in whatever followup there may be would be good


years ago I had a standard set of whiteboard questions that were intentionally p simple, b/c whiteboards don’t replicate actual coding envs for reasons we’ve talked about to death itt

had an obviously very bright guy come in and do it in scala, which went awful. had to fail him but both me and and my interview partner were like we gotta give him feedback and have him try again in a month or w/e

came in did it in Java and passed easily; turned out to be one of my best hires in my career

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Feisty-Cadaver
Jun 1, 2000
The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out.

CarForumPoster posted:

What’s that? interview for a VERY legacy program in defense? no problem

my uni used Ada as their teaching language cuz a lot of grads got shipped off to Boeing after graduation and good lord the verbosity was so annoying to 18 year old me, and I was fairly proficient at Java even back then in the uh 1.4 days

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