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cheque_some
Dec 6, 2006
The Wizard of Menlo Park
i get all my jobs on angelfire

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cheque_some
Dec 6, 2006
The Wizard of Menlo Park
internal transfers suck because you always end up still getting called for help from your previous group

cheque_some
Dec 6, 2006
The Wizard of Menlo Park

Achmed Jones posted:

this was not my experience, maybe your immune system is a pos

:same:

cheque_some
Dec 6, 2006
The Wizard of Menlo Park

Pollyanna posted:

i wonder if its possible to be the opposite of the usual "terrible at interviewing, good at actually working" thing

^--- most of the people in this thread

cheque_some
Dec 6, 2006
The Wizard of Menlo Park
once interviewed a guy that seemed pretty knowledgeable and got all of our questions right, but he didn't have a lot of experience in the specific job functions. my director said since we only had one opening we should hold out for someone "expert level".

I don't think they ever found anyone, because expert level people weren't willing to work there

cheque_some
Dec 6, 2006
The Wizard of Menlo Park
bonuses sometimes get withheld at a higher marginal rate because they're extrapolated out as if they're one paycheck for a full year salary instead of a one-time bonus

there's no special tax rate for bonuses, they're just taxed as regular income, that's the point

cheque_some
Dec 6, 2006
The Wizard of Menlo Park

Mao Zedong Thot posted:

agree that CoL in middle america is not vastly different than the coasts, the rent thing is blown wayyyyyy out of proportion, there are a lot of other things people spend money on and they vary less, or not at all.

but you completely misunderstand remote comp. it is a giant loving red flag if your remote job comps you based on where you live. because of what we just both agreed on that CoL is not as wildly variant as people like to trot out -- there are a lot of employers that understand this (and plenty that don't). you also misunderstand remote work in general: you say its inefficient or less productive and also assert remote employees are competing with whoever-is-cheapest offshoring type work. one of those things is optional, and the other is causally linked to the first. guess which is which.

your entire thesis boils down to 'if you hire bad people and have bad communication tooling and processes work is actually not very efficient' well no poo poo. IRL gives you a bit of latitude for hiring bad people and having bad communication tooling and processes, but that's loving stupid anyway, and you will still have a bad time, even if you get 5% more play in 'how bad can we be without overt impact'.

GitLab's workforce is fully remote, and they put their entire employee handbook online, which was pretty interesting. Apparently they pay based on where you live, and they include a git repo with all their scaling factors. Apparently if you move some where cheaper, they dock your pay. It looked like New York City is high CoL according to them, but Boston is at the national average.

quote:

At the time of the location update, we will take into consideration your new metro region when making a salary offer for continued employment.

At the onset, this practice sounds harsh when moving to a lower paid region. One might argue that it seems unfair for the organization to pay someone less for the same work in the same role, regardless of where they go. However, if you look at it from another angle for a minute and compare this practice to what most companies do, it should make more sense.

https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/people-operations/global-compensation/

At the very least, at least interesting to see what one company is doing in practice.

cheque_some
Dec 6, 2006
The Wizard of Menlo Park

Mao Zedong Thot posted:

the more i think about it, the funnier it gets

they couldn't even be assed to come up with a reason other than 'gently caress you' so just assert that actually if you think about it its fair <exercise left to reader>

tho honestly, it is fair, because i would just get another job that didnt do that so whatever gently caress them

tbf the explanation did go on, but I didn't post it all because it's a lot of words

quote:

At the onset, this practice sounds harsh when moving to a lower paid region. One might argue that it seems unfair for the organization to pay someone less for the same work in the same role, regardless of where they go. However, if you look at it from another angle for a minute and compare this practice to what most companies do, it should make more sense. For example, say you work for a company with physical locations and say they haven't accepted that remote work is as productive as coming into the office yet. If you wanted to pack up and move to a location where they did not have a physical site, you would have no alternative but to resign and seek new employment in your new location. You would find quickly that companies in the area pay at local employment market rates.

Now, let's say the company did have a site in your new location and they offered the flexibility to transfer. If they did not have a similar position open, you would have to either apply for a different open position in the same company or resign and apply externally (back to the realization that other companies will pay at local market rates). If you were lucky enough that they did have a similar role in the new location, a transfer would come with a pay rate based on the local market to ensure equity across all incumbents (people in the job) by location.

Adjusting pay according to the local market in all cases is fair to everyone. We can't remain consistent if we make exceptions to the policy and allow someone to make greater than local market rate for the same work others in that region are doing (or will be hired to do). We realize we might lose a few good people over this pay policy, but being fair to all team members is not negotiable. It is a value we stand behind and take very seriously.

So basically they want everyone in a region to be paid the same, but they don't really ever explain their base assumption that people in areas with lower rent should be paid less

The nice thing about them posting all their polices publically is you can avoid it if they would drive you crazy before you start

Like they go on and on about how they'll reimburse you for all your equipment for your home office EXCEPT FOR WINDOWS COMPUTERS because "git doesn't work on Windows and PCs get lots of viruses" or something, which just sounds like something an apple fan would say in 2006

cheque_some
Dec 6, 2006
The Wizard of Menlo Park
I'd definitely have second thoughts about working for a company that livestreamed my ineptitude with computers across the Internet

cheque_some
Dec 6, 2006
The Wizard of Menlo Park

qhat posted:

110-120k for Amazon is standard for SDE 2. If you're senior you're looking at 150+.

Source: my friend who works at Amazon Vancouver.

are these in dollars or "dollars"

cheque_some
Dec 6, 2006
The Wizard of Menlo Park

PokeJoe posted:

post the memes

cheque_some
Dec 6, 2006
The Wizard of Menlo Park
I've seen a place make you pick a salary range from a dropdown and not let you proceed without it. What do you do in that case?

cheque_some
Dec 6, 2006
The Wizard of Menlo Park

hobbesmaster posted:

people technology sounds like a dumb name for hr

this was my thought
"we're a tech company, everything has to be technology!"

cheque_some
Dec 6, 2006
The Wizard of Menlo Park
There has to be some kind of economic indicator of how many recruiter messages you get in a day. I think I got 5 in the last 24 hours.

One of them said they were looking for PHP developers who could be trained on Golang, and that this would help me build my resume and find a great job. I couldn't tell if they were trying to hire me for a job, or sell me training. Also it was sent to my work e-mail. Apparently they were a "Food tech" company. What is that, like, an app for delivering food or something?

cheque_some
Dec 6, 2006
The Wizard of Menlo Park
if you have lots of friends of the opposite sex, do they count that against you for a programming job?

cheque_some
Dec 6, 2006
The Wizard of Menlo Park
I feel like a good way to switch specializations is to set your sights lower as far as company. One of the big name or cool companies isn't going to want some web developer working on their embedded systems, but smallscrubco may just be happy to have an applicant. You could also try applying for some kind of hybrid position, where they want both web development experience for front-end and Java or something for backend. Then you could just work your way more into enterprise app development, which would open up some different areas.

cheque_some
Dec 6, 2006
The Wizard of Menlo Park

meatpotato posted:

I have one. An old friend worked at a toy robot startup and she told me they needed somebody to write firmware. They wanted to hire full-time, but I didn't want to quit my job, mostly because the commute to the toy robot place would be awful

i offered to contract as-needed instead of being full-time and after a few months of silence they asked if I was available for a few projects. I asked for $130/hour (multiplied my annual salary by 100 after inflating it a bit) and they said yes without hesitating, so I probably should have asked for more.

Anyway, they let me work remotely and I had a pretty consistent 10-20 hours of work a week on top of my regular job, which was a little stressful for a while until I quit my full-time job and did a month of just contracting, then it was really nice.

im really sorry to hear your salary is only $1.30. sad member of the one figgy club :smith:

cheque_some
Dec 6, 2006
The Wizard of Menlo Park
For example, me messing me a recruiter who had the balls to e-mail me at work:

cheque_some
Dec 6, 2006
The Wizard of Menlo Park

Glorgnole posted:

i have a bud who works for IBM in cambridge

that's that company that puts people out to pasture when they get old, right

cheque_some
Dec 6, 2006
The Wizard of Menlo Park
This one time years ago I had a recruiter (company recruiter, not like some third party one) say they wanted me to interview for this job that looked like i was totally not qualified for and wasn't even really related to what i did

I asked her about it and she said it was the hiring manager who wanted to interview me so I figured maybe it was one of those cases where the job description just didn't match well worth the actual job so I said ok

The first time he was supposed to call me, he never did

The second time he was supposed to call me I got an email right before saying he wasn't going to make it

The third time, he actually called me and started asking me all these questions and I was like, sorry I don't have experience with any of that. And he was like, don't you have a computer science degree? And i was like, nope, have you seen my resume? And he was like, oh woops this says bachelor of science not, computer science. Nevermind.


Welp that's my story, hope u enjoyed :)

Crazy thing was I had also applied to a bunch of positions after that where I had exactly the experience they were looking for and they never got back to me, to the point that i thought maybe they had a no poaching clause with my employer, who was one of their biggest customers. Maybe they just blacklisted me after that experience

cheque_some
Dec 6, 2006
The Wizard of Menlo Park

EnergizerFellow posted:

so are suits still a thing east of the mississippi? at least for architect/manager level outside finance?


not super common, but their incidence does increase as you go up the corporate ladder, imho. still very dependent on the company culture, though.


Also a reminder that when a west coast tech company says "we don't care what you wear" they mean "We will judge you if you're not wearing casual clothes"

cheque_some
Dec 6, 2006
The Wizard of Menlo Park

SardonicTyrant posted:

I wear a dress shirt and pants because I want to. :colbert:

"You know we have a casual dress code, right?"


I used to work in finance and had this director that would wear a suit with no tie every day. Once in a while I'd wear a tie just because I felt like it and he would say, "You know wearing a tie is optional, right?". I 'd confirm that I knew that, I just wanted to and he would be like, "I just wanted you to know that wearing a tie is OPTIONAL"


One time, when we had a meeting scheduled with him, I got my entire team to wear ties just to see what he would do. My manager, who usually tried to get away with jeans and sneakers, showed up to the meeting in a suit. As I recall, the director bellowed "WHAT IS EVERYONE SO DRESSED UP FOR?!" and slammed the table.


Now imagine if you did that in sillycon valley!

cheque_some
Dec 6, 2006
The Wizard of Menlo Park
Best bet is probably to get job in London then try to transfer to New York

cheque_some
Dec 6, 2006
The Wizard of Menlo Park

pointsofdata posted:

This sort of works but is still a big pain. Have to justify why you can't hire an American or something

But if it's a big firm and they like you they'll take care of this for you. C/p your resume and call it "job requirements", boom, can't find any one that meets them

A couple years ago I saw a classified ad for a Quantitative Analyst at a top investment bank in the classified ads of am New York, in with all the ads for maids, security guards, and massage parlors

"we ran an ad for a month in the highest circulation newspaper in Manhattan and found no one qualified, we gotta transfer someone in from Frankfurt"


pointsofdata posted:

Have you considered getting a job in London and just being paid a lot less?
Or this

Edit: crap, beaten

cheque_some fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Nov 8, 2018

cheque_some
Dec 6, 2006
The Wizard of Menlo Park

Achmed Jones posted:

lol I just noped a palantir recruiter hard, they're on the prowl

I make sure to reply to Palantir recruiters. Make sure to tell them how immoral what their company does and enables is.

cheque_some
Dec 6, 2006
The Wizard of Menlo Park
is it possible to get some company to fly you out to an on-site just to get a free mini-vacation

what's the sweet spot for bay area companies where they're small enough to be desperate but big enough to pay for that


i mean I know google or someone would pay for that, but not worth it to go through 10 google interviews first

also i'm a terrible programmer, lol

cheque_some
Dec 6, 2006
The Wizard of Menlo Park

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

most companies will pay for it, whether small or big

but is it worth the hassle? you're still going to have to pay for a hotel in the most expensive market in america

they won't pay for the hotel? or you mean if I wanted to extend the trip out a few extra days?

cheque_some
Dec 6, 2006
The Wizard of Menlo Park

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

the latter.

if they pay for a hotel at all, it will be for one night. (I've had companies try to book me for double red-eyes to avoid paying for a hotel!)


double red-eyes, that's messed up

i've found you can get surprisingly good hotel rates if you stay at a business-oriented hotel in the fiDi on the weekends, though

or just repeat this 5x and use the resulting points and miles to book your own trip not built around an interview


yes, that sounds like a good use of time

cheque_some
Dec 6, 2006
The Wizard of Menlo Park
are there any big/household name tech companies that meet these three requirements:

1) pays well
2) located in a major urban center
3) not evil


like, you've got

Apple
Pay: Pretty good, I hear
Evil level: Mild -- privacy advocation, but also love to replace industry standard stuff with proprietary junk
Location: More like Cuperti-no. Or I guess now unincorporated Travis County or something

Amazon
Pay: Pretty solid, although I hear the stock grants are kinda handcuff-y
Evil level: Moderate. -- Dying fulfillment workers and putting lots of people out of a job and companies out of business.
Location: Seattle, or New York City

Facebook
Pay: Pretty great from what I hear
Evil level: High. Harvesting your recovery phone number for advertising purposes, scraping address books to build shadow profiles on every person alive, shady marketing, the list goes on.
Location: Silicon Valley (Palo Alto?), but at least they have a big office in New York

Google
Pay: Pretty good.
Evil level: Moderate. Tracking location info even if you turn it off. Basically an ad company.
Location: Mountain View is lame, but at least their second largest office is in NYC.

Microsoft
Pay: Good, I think?
Evil level: Mild. Less monopoly stuff these days, probably the only big company advocating for more oversight of AI. Windows Server licensing is still annoying, I guess.
Location: Redmond? I am not aware of them having any big offices outside this, just lots of tiny sales offices all over.


Maybe Dropbox? I hear they pay well, and have offices in SF/NY. But I'm not clear how they make money when they're competing with Apple/Microsoft/Google, who are largely just bundling storage with their products.

cheque_some
Dec 6, 2006
The Wizard of Menlo Park

Schadenboner posted:

Back when my wife and I were students at the .edu we went to she marked me as a "no rehire" which has since been put into the big-boy HR database there.

I'm not even loving kidding, either.

That being said, there's another .edu (a better one) in town as well and they're maybe looking?

I saw a job posting at Northwestern mutual in MKE on stack overflow the other day, I assume you've already applied there?

this is probably like asking someone in madison if they've applied at epic, right

cheque_some
Dec 6, 2006
The Wizard of Menlo Park
what's people's take on vettery

i think i remember some guy on here said he used it, but they made you add a photo or something which seems weird

their people are now so desperate for signups they're offering to create a profile for me if i send them a resume, and then i will have companies just throwing job offers at me or something. like some kind of weird dating site

cheque_some
Dec 6, 2006
The Wizard of Menlo Park

Rex-Goliath posted:

as a white male dude if a recruiting site asks for a headshot iím not using it

every time I go on linked in it's like "WHY WON'T YOU ADD A PROFILE PICTURE??? :qq: "

cheque_some
Dec 6, 2006
The Wizard of Menlo Park

jesus WEP posted:

working for IBM: bad idea or terrible idea?

read the pro publica article (https://features.propublica.org/ibm/ibm-age-discrimination-american-workers/) and then ask yourself if you're currently, or some day will be old

and then try to figure out how IBM makes money
- mainframes are niche
- lotus notes is dying off
- i've literally never met or heard of anyone using IBM's cloud
- watson hasn't lived up to expectations
- not sure IBM's consulting arm has any real reason to use it over Bain/BCG/McKinsey or other big 4 type places (or Dell, Xerox, or all the other 'big tech' places trying to get into the game)

and it's no wonder they are trying to squeeze margins by moving all jobs to India. They have way more people in India than in the US at this point

nbsd probably has some good comments, he was dunking on ibm in the thread a couple months ago

cheque_some
Dec 6, 2006
The Wizard of Menlo Park
also a vettery person just sent me an e-mail with a 5 MB inline gif of her dancing with a sign

boy are they desperate or what

cheque_some
Dec 6, 2006
The Wizard of Menlo Park

CPColin posted:

I had one that gave me a loving MacBook and I had to stop every two seconds to ask how to do esoteric tasks like "hit F12."

I had this happen to me, and I looked like an idiot being like, Alright, how do I open a web browser and a terminal?

Pretty sure it was part of why they decided to pass on me. Culture fit!!

cheque_some
Dec 6, 2006
The Wizard of Menlo Park
when I was interviewing at my current job they insisted on doing all of this over the phone

So they'd call me at work and I'd be like, Sorry can't talk, let me call you back in an hour
in an hour I'd call and they wouldn't be there, so I'd leave a message saying, Maybe you can just e-mail me?
Then in another hour they'd call back and be like, sorry this wasn't something we can discuss over e-mail! And it would be like, "Hey we wanted to offer you $X and so many days of vacation"

And when I was like, let me think that over, do you mind e-mailing me a copy of that so I have it in writing and can look it over she was all, "I don't know why you need it in an e-mail when I just told you everything!"

it was very odd

cheque_some
Dec 6, 2006
The Wizard of Menlo Park

mekkanare posted:

I got hit up by a fb recruiter about two weeks ago wanted to talk to me about a position by phone. I said to email me more information about it, and she replied "Well we're looking for X years of experience and you only have Y."

Recruiter negging, nice

cheque_some
Dec 6, 2006
The Wizard of Menlo Park

Rex-Goliath posted:

The best part about being gainfully employed in a job you like is you can call this poo poo out

Out of all the faang I am not surprised that it's FB adopting sleazy PUA tactics

cheque_some
Dec 6, 2006
The Wizard of Menlo Park

ProSlayer posted:

Cross-posting from the Oldies thread:


I've been lucky enough to receive offers from Indeed and Wayfair. I was hoping to hear other people's feedback on comparing them, especially from those who have worked at these two companies or lived in Austin/Boston.

Background on myself: 4 YoE as a full stack developer + CSE undergrad. In a weird situation where I decided to go full time to business school (graduating in May) but preferred SWE to PM, so looking to return to a SWE role.

Offer from Indeed (Austin, TX): Technical Business Analyst (80% coding), TC: $97k: $85k base + up to 15% bonus.

Offer from Wayfair (Boston, MA): SWE2, TC: $160k: $125k base + $7k relo + RSUs

What is important to me:
- Living w/o roommates
- Short commute (15 minutes <)

I was leaning towards Indeed since CoL is cheaper in that area versus Wayfair. It looks like I'd have to pay around $1.3k in Austin for an apartment versus $2.6k in Boston. On the other hand, the Wayfair position is closer to what I would want to be doing career wise. I've read the horror stories about Wayfair, but the team I'm isn't customer-facing, so I don't think I'd need to deal with it. Even if I did, I feel like I've grown accustomed to working in companies with terrible engineering practices with my previous experience.

Any advice?

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I see this line of thinking a lot and don't really understand it.

So your apartment would be $1300 more in Boston than Austin. That's $1300 x 12 = $15600 a year, say $25,000 pre-tax. So you're basically going to be giving up $50K a year in compensation to get a cheaper apartment? Most stuff is going to cost similar amounts between Boston and Austin.

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cheque_some
Dec 6, 2006
The Wizard of Menlo Park
salary question for crazy hiring process at a faang/big4 tech co:

I have evaded the salary questions thus far through the initial phone screen, phone interview, an on-site interview, and now they're asking for my compensation expectations in writing before submitting my application to the final "hiring committee". is this the point where I should give in and just throw the high end of what paysa shows? Or should I try to stall again? Or demand the range under California law since the job opening is in the bay area?

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