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TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE
finding a job I'm interested in actually applying for is really hard when most of the companies around here exclusively do poo poo garbage for idiots

spotify is the usual monopoly-seeking poo poo and i have it on good account that they are mainly growing their developer force to pad their valuation
anything martech or fintech is right out
i will never volountarily work at an agency or a consultancy again
literal blockchain startups? gently caress off
"online doctor" startups focusing on lucrative and mostly healthy patients? gently caress off
tiny dumb "obvious thing with an app" startups with like five developers? gently caress off
some tv streaming poo poo that's competing with the channels' own platforms not to mention netflix? gently caress off
online casinos? gently caress off
the loving "natural cycles" rhythm method contraception app startup? gently caress off

seriously, loving google is starting to look like one of the least bad options at this point. i think i'll apply to paradox entertainment first though because video games are merely stupid rather than morally unacceptable

i know, i know, there is no ethical consumption nor any ethical labor under late capitalism but at least let me pretend for a moment

TheFluff fucked around with this message at 18:25 on May 29, 2018

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TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE

Janitor Prime posted:

You didn't mention telecom, but there is a lot going on in that space that is pretty stable and isn't as shady as some of the stuff you mentioned.

mm, good point. there's a few of those around, worth a look

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE
sent resume for a senior position that's out of my league, to an actual engineering company that does actual manufacturing of actual high-tech things - metal cutting tools, mining and construction equipment, special steels, that kind of thing - and expected it to be a very long shot

they actually responded though and want to talk to me. I don't even have a degree in computer touching, much less engineering. impostering the hell out of myself rn

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE
went and talked to a big newspaper publishing company since the recruiter made it sound kinda interesting (although he was vague about it). turns out the position is on the website team for one of the dumber tabloids, generating html server-side with vanilla js in node with handlebars from elastic search. the frontpage has so much third party marketing junk that all of their own first party frontend js is just vanilla, no frameworks at all. they also almost exclusively do pair programming and didn't seem to approve of the pull request/code review flow when I mentioned that's what I was used to. how about nope, then?

they did also mention that their backend team doing things in scala were looking for people too, but then the guy mentioned that despite having worked a lot in erlang and liking functional programming he wasn't a big fan of expressive type systems since he didn't like the compiler getting in his way. so, yeah, don't think i'll bite there either. i just want to write software that works, god drat it

gonna interview with the engineering guys on monday, hopefully their poo poo is more interesting

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE

exactly my reaction

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE
talked to some fintech guys on the phone today. they were looking for people interested in functional programming and it actually seemed like a pretty cool place to be to actually get better at programming, but ugh, fintech. they did send a small homework test though, said it'd take about 1 to 1.5 hours but no time limit, most common languages allowed. they also said it was more about clarity and simplicity than about performance, but to feel free to use functional patters where it was appropriate. three small tasks, two of them trivial, third was to implement a very small and trivial RPN expression evaluator. I did in in python and the idiomatic way is to just have a simple for loop and use a list as a stack, but since they said to use functional programming I ended up doing it with reduce instead and it was much uglier. well, idk. guess I'll see if they get back and maybe talk to them some more.

TheFluff fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Jun 8, 2018

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE

Symbolic Butt posted:

yeah python is a tough one for demonstrating functional style. I'd have used haskell or sml for that because it's a kind of cliche problem to solve in a language like that to demonstrate pattern matching and recursion

for anything trickier than that I'd go back to python lol

I don't know either of those though :negative:
They're explicitly not looking for people with actual professional experience in functional languages though, an interest and some familiarity with the concepts is enough, or so they claim

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE
current interviewing status: talked to the engineering company. sounded interesting, but I probably bombed it, welp

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE
it was going pretty good and i mentioned a clever solution i came up with to a particular problem a few years ago, and the interviewer asked "what kind of data structure would you have used to solve that problem today" and i was just like uuuuuuuuh data structures????? they specifically asked for good working knowledge of common data structures or some poo poo like that in the ad.

several hours later while thinking back on it i of course remembered all of the reasons why i solved it the way i did and that it was really more of a database consistency problem than a keep-state-in-a-datastructure problem and and and fffffffff

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE

homercles posted:

If the question was such a parity mismatch why not mention it to the interviewer? Why do you subject us to your worst moments?!?

It's like watching Wonder Years in VR. No.

:negative:

i did hear back from three other places i've been having short interviews (30-60 mins) with though and they were all positive :unsmith:

TheFluff fucked around with this message at 14:00 on Jun 12, 2018

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE
talked to some fintech dudes, i think it went okay. seemed interesting technically and it'd be nice to work with people a lot smarter than i am for a change, but ugh, i'm really not too big of a fan of the company

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE

Diva Cupcake posted:

companies are universally terrible, especially in finance. work for figgies instead which finance has a lot of.

i know, i know, but self-suggestion is one hell of a drug

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE
what do you say when the interviewer asks what you're an expert at? i'm not a loving expert at anything, i just know enough about a lot of things to not shoot myself in the foot, and i'm good at learning to understand what i'm doing before i do it so keep not shooting myself in the foot. i can write purely functional code if i try but i'm certainly not some kind of haskell nerd. i can write object oriented code with abstract classes and interfaces and virtual methods if i try but most of the time i don't. i can write c and c++ without shooting myself in the foot too much but i'm not too familiar with the new c++11 stuff. i've worked a lot with web stuff and databases (relational and no) and i know a vast catalog of common pitfalls, but i learn new things all the time. i have seven years of experience during which i've tried a whole lot of different poo poo, so i'm definitely the generalist kind of guy, not an expert at any particular thing.

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

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thanks for the advice, y'all

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE
when i started looking around for a new job and going to interviews a few weeks ago i felt really confident in myself as a programmer, that i was really starting to feel like i could rely on myself to tackle almost any problem

now i feel like poo poo and like im at the edge of a nervous breakdown and i have absolutely no confidence i will get any decent job at all, i'll be stuck writing garbage tier broken webapps in javascript for eternity

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE
i have an excellent response rate on my resume but i keep loving up interviews in various ways

i think i've learned from my mistakes though, so that is something :unsmith:

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
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heard back from an edtech company i thought i bombed the interview for and they want to meet me again, so that's cool i guess

also went to talk to a business intelligence/marketing tech company that claimed to have implemented their own datastore on amazon s3 using amazon lambdas for querying. is this as much of a red flag as it smells like to me?

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

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as far as i understood it, it was the realtime backend for some kind of advertising stats tool. he mentioned it was "cool for a startup to be able to throw 1000 cores at a query for two seconds"

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

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NoneMoreNegative posted:

we do Ďprobationaryí periods for new starters - gives new hires six months to their first proper evaluation and if theyíre not measuring up contract says we can let them go. ok itís a bit longer than Ďa month or two at mostí but it still gives you a written-down Ďoutí that you canít really lawyer against.

This is how it generally works in some countries with legally mandated job security (that is, if you're a full time permanent employee, as long as you show up to work and at least try to do your job, it's borderline impossible to fire you - you can get laid off if the company is downsizing, though). For the first six months as a full time employee, the contract is close to how it works in the US - two weeks notice from the employer, no formal notice legally needed from the employee. After those six months though the company needs to decide if they want to get rid of you, and if they don't, the contract automatically converts from a probationary one to a permanent one.

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE

Rex-Goliath posted:

iím dead loving serious if you fancy yourself a computer touched and canít even type/touch computers effectively i will judge you super harshly

i think i've worked with like three people ever who actually touch type properly lol
like, i myself don't look at the keys but i don't use all fingers properly and i know very few people who do. nobody teaches that poo poo here and it's not a thing you pick up on your own unless you are a real turbosperg

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE
Went in for third interview for some adtech startup, unexpectedly walked out with a preliminary offer for 35% more than my current figgies (which are low tho) plus better benefits to boot. They havenít even talked to my references yet, so this gives me some odd vibes - theyíre a bit suspiciously eager. I donít even want to work in adtech, so I think Iíll pass, but itís nice to have the offer as leverage for other positions.

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
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OF WEALTH AND TASTE
how do I get out of webdev

i'm mostly a python guy (also forced into js). i've done some C and C++ but hobbyist stuff only, no professional experience. been doing web stuff for about 7 years now

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
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OF WEALTH AND TASTE

Boiled Water posted:

I would apply for positions that arenít webdev

yeah but like everything that isn't webdev asks for very specific things like "at least four years of experience working with embedded systems and particularly these three specific hardware things" or "at least three years of experience with unity" which is kinda discouraging

doesn't cost me a lot to send out a resume tho, i guess

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
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OF WEALTH AND TASTE
sent in a resume to a place that seemed really cool back in like, late may or something, and figured i was a great fit, but i never heard back. suddenly they popped up yesterday though and were like "sorry, summer holidays and all that, are you still interested" and yea i guess i am! thought that boat had sailed ages ago.

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE
the resume thread in BFC is very good, but really, i think the best advice is be specific about what you did, and make sure to highlight a few of the things they're asking for in the ad at the very top, in the summary part. when i talked to some consulting sharks about selling resources using resumes, they pretty much said that if the hr person doesn't see the right keywords in like the first few lines, you're getting passed over. i brushed up mine with the advice from that thread and my response rate has been through the roof since.

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE
i use garamond because i like to pretend i'm an intellectual

c i&r s:

quote:

I hope you are well. I wanted to reach out to you about the chance to become an integral part of the development team working on a game-changing IoT/M2M connected car platform in Stockholm!

... start-up building pioneering smart human interfaces for IoT-apps and specialize in M2M & mobile product development ...
... building advanced, scalable systems for a SaaS platform which refines data collection from the car & service providers to revolutionise car ownership! ...
... microservice architecture primarily using Node.js (they are looking for skilled developers with experience in any server-side language but who have an interest in working with NodeJS & other languages for different components), JavaScript (ES6/7), AWS, MongoDB ...

saints preserve us all, i didn't realize internet of poo poo was recruiting here

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE
accepted an offer at a medium sized edtech company after some minor negotiation. ended up with +25% over current figgies plus better benefits. very down-to-earth feeling, it's a pretty uncomplicated product and they don't do any grandstanding about ~d i s r u p t i o n~. also very good feeling about the team and the development process, no "move fast and break things" poo poo.

the last three months of job searching and interviewing has sucked so much rear end and has had me on the edge of a nervous breakdown several times. i'm so glad to have it done. fuckkkk this poo poo.

TheFluff fucked around with this message at 15:22 on Sep 6, 2018

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
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new grads earn completely insane figgies in the us west coast tech hubs, yes. http://danluu.com/bimodal-compensation/

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE
interviewing is hell. this was me this summer:

TheFluff posted:

when i started looking around for a new job and going to interviews a few weeks ago i felt really confident in myself as a programmer, that i was really starting to feel like i could rely on myself to tackle almost any problem

now i feel like poo poo and like im at the edge of a nervous breakdown and i have absolutely no confidence i will get any decent job at all, i'll be stuck writing garbage tier broken webapps in javascript for eternity

that was posted after I felt like I hosed up on a videoconferencing coding session with the tech lead at a medium sized edtech company. I ran out of time, probably because I went for an overly complicated solution. he was very nice about it though, and so was everyone else at the company, and I eventually ended up getting hired. I started this tuesday and so far it seems like I made the right choice.

hang in there, goons. learning what to say in interviews took me a lot of loving up, and even then, a lot of the time you get rejected for basically no reason at all. don't let it get to you.

dan luu's blog is great btw, he has both quite interesting post about various nerdery but also some great career advice and stories about how basically every company is weird as gently caress in one way or another.

TheFluff fucked around with this message at 07:54 on Oct 12, 2018

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE

dan luu posted:

At the last conference I attended, I asked most people I met two questions:

1) Do you know of any companies that aren't highly dysfunctional?
2) Do you know of any particular teams that are great and are hiring?

Not one single person told me that their company meets the criteria in (1). A few people suggested that, maybe, Dropbox is ok, or that, maybe, Jane Street is ok, but the answers were of the form "I know a few people there and I haven't heard any terrible horror stories yet, plus I sometimes hear good stories", not "that company is great and you should definitely work there". Most people said that they didn't know of any companies that weren't a total mess.

A few people had suggestions for (2), but the most common answer was something like "LOL no, if I knew that I'd go work there". The second most common answer was of the form "I know some people on the Google Brain team and it sounds great". There are a few teams that are well known for being great places to work, but the fact that they're so few and far between that it's basically impossible to get a job on one of those teams. A few people knew of actual teams that they'd strongly recommend who were hiring, but that was rare. Much rarer than finding a developer who I'd want to work with who would consider moving. If I flipped the question around and asked if they knew of any good developers who were looking for work, the answer was usually "yes".

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

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there's a computer toucher shortage in europe and there are definitely companies willing to sponsor visas. stockholm is full of computer touching expats. on my team we have people from croatia, brazil, india, the philippines, russia and scotland. mostly pretty ordinary web programmers too with a few years of experience, not senior level.

TheFluff fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Oct 13, 2018

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

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qhat posted:

Europe pays bad and is expensive so it can't be that short. Or am I just thinking about London?

well, yeah, everyone pays bad compared to the us, and london was a terrible place with absurd costs of living even before brexit. stockholm also has high costs of living but at least you still get stuff for your taxes, especially if you have kids. only reason I brought stockholm up though was because that's where I am.

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE
wages being absurdly high in the us is kind of an academic point if you're not already living there though because who in their right mind would want to voluntarily move to the dystopian hellscape that is modern america? there is no amount of money in the world that could motivate that, and it's not like you can get a visa these days anyway

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
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OF WEALTH AND TASTE

Shaggar posted:

SQL Server has always been a better option than oracle unless you needed to light some money on fire to hit your budget goals. since like 2008 or 2012 or whenever ssis and ssrs started coming with sql server its been far and away the best db option

as irritating and as expensive as it is, you're probably right. postgres is very good and does some things better but sql server has a few killer features, like system-versioned tables (there's a postgres extension for this but it uses triggers and is kinda janky) and columnstore indexes.

e: sql server only gaining utf8 support in the 2019 release is laffo tho

TheFluff fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Oct 30, 2018

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

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i've only been here for a month now but i'm pretty sure joining a company with a zero tolerance for toxic dudebros and a soft-spoken and helpful engineering culture was the best thing i ever done

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE

Gazpacho posted:

just to be clear you're not going to double a $160k salary as a bay area computer toucher at a tech giant, they pay market rates and immigrants will eat your lunch

Dan Luu wrote in 2016:

quote:

The numbers will vary depending on circumstances, but we can do a back of the envelope calculation and adjust for circumstances afterwards. Median income in the U.S. is about $30k/yr. The somewhat bogus zeroth order lifetime earnings approximation I'll use is $30k * 40 = $1.2M. A new grad at Google/FB/Amazon with a lowball offer will have a total comp (salary + bonus + equity) of $130k/yr. According to glassdoor's current numbers, someone who makes it to T5/senior at Google should have a total comp of around $250k/yr. These are fairly conservative numbers (1).

Someone who's not particularly successful, but not particularly unsuccessful will probably make senior in five years. For our conservative baseline, let's assume that we'll never make it past senior, into the pay grades where compensation really skyrockets.

[...]

(1): In particular, the Glassdoor numbers seem low for an average. I suspect that's because their average is weighed down by older numbers, while compensation has skyrocketed the past seven years. The average numbers on Glassdoor don't even match the average numbers I heard from other people in my Midwestern satellite office in a large town two years ago, and the market has gone up sharply since then. More recently, on the upper end, I know someone fresh out of school who has a total comp of almost $250k/yr ($350k equity over four years, a $50k signing bonus, plus a generous salary). As is normal, they got a number of offers with varying compensation levels, and then Facebook came in and bid him up. The companies that are serious about competing for people matched the offers, and that was that. This included bids in Seattle and Austin that matched the bids in SV. If you're negotiating an offer, the thing that's critical isn't to be some kind of super genius. It's enough to be pretty good, know what the market is paying, and have multiple offers. This person was worth every penny, which is why he got his offers, but I know several people who are just as good who make half as much just because they only got a single offer and had no leverage.

Anyway, the point of this footnote is just that the total comp for experienced engineers can go way above the numbers mentioned in the post. In the analysis that follows, keep in mind that I'm using conservative numbers and that an aggressive estimate for experienced engineers would be much higher. Just for example, at Google, senior is level 5 out of 11 on a scale that effectively starts at 3. At Microsoft, it's 63 out of a weirdo scale that starts at 59 and goes to 70-something and then jumps up to 80 (or something like that, I always forget the details because the scale is so silly). Senior isn't a particularly high band, and people at senior often have total comp substantially greater than $250k/yr. Note that these numbers also don't include the above market rate of stock growth at trendy large companies in the past few years. If you've actually taken this deal, your RSUs have likely appreciated substantially.

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

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I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE
i realize the uk with brexit looming seems bad but moving to the us really isn't going to make anything better

also don't get fooled by the figgies, there are lots of expenses you'll have that simply don't exist in europe, such as contributing significant amounts of money to political campaigning to try to maybe hopefully avoid actual nazis getting elected for public office

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

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OF WEALTH AND TASTE

bob dobbs is dead posted:

these jobs dont exist outside the sfba seattle and some other points of non-crap in the republican darkness

yea but congress

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
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OF WEALTH AND TASTE
the eu blue card (work visa for highly qualified professionals) is dual intent but the amount of time you need to wait for citizenship varies a lot

in sweden regular work visas (for people who do not qualify for the blue card) are dual intent and you can apply for citizenship after five years of residency. allows dual citizenship too. better be sure you're taking all of your vacation days tho - you get 25 days a year by law and you must use at least 20 - and make sure your employer is doing their pension contributions right or the immigration board will revoke your visa on the grounds that you are unfair competition in the work market

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TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
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we get 30 days (6 weeks) of paid vacation a year at my new job and i was feeling kinda eh about that because it was the same as i had at the previous place. we can take three more weeks unpaid tho if we want. probably gonna use all of that too. it was also p funny to sit in orientation and see one of the hr ladies very explicitly spell out for the expats that you have to take at least 20 days a year by law and please don't make trouble for us by not doing it. owns.

TheFluff fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Nov 19, 2018

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