interviewing: Senior by reference, not by value

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > interviewing: Senior by reference, not by value

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Plorkyeran: Mar 21, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

i am mostly a fan of being 6-7 hours behind the rest of my team. there's a lot of downsides, but it ensures that my meetings are nicely clustered at the start of the day and then i usually don't have distractions from noon onward.

# ¿ Jan 9, 2022 02:04

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# ¿ Jan 18, 2025 17:08

Plorkyeran: Mar 21, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

Corla Plankun posted:

lol mr "didn't know what mvc was" thinks hes not getting tech jobs because he's too honest

edit to add: "I've never written production code that talks to a DB nor have I ever written production code that issues an RPC or calls an external API."

the real subject worth talking about here is how this man must have the most perfect resume on earth if he's getting interviews at facebook when it seems like he's essentially never written any code???

this might blow your mind but there's a lot of software dev that isn't just plumbing together services

# ¿ Jan 10, 2022 20:38

Plorkyeran: Mar 21, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

Quebec Bagnet posted:

i had an interview for a contract-to-hire role last week where the hiring manager said that most of his contract-to-hires were brought on permanently after 6 or 12 months and they did it that way because it was easier to get HR approval (legacy company, new team, growing fast, etc).

also apparently they're "legally prevented from having a contract-to-hire longer than 12 months", broken only in 2020 due to a pandemic hiring freeze.

idk how much to believe of any of that. they're a media conglomerate operating in california so i guess there might be some industry-specific regulation around contracts even though it's a corporate sweng job. but there's nothing stopping them from just not renewing the contract.

afaict there's an idea that 1099 misclassification is okay as long as the contract has some upper limit in length (either 9 months or 12 months depending on who you ask), similar to the whole "you must delete roms after 24 hours" thing

# ¿ Jan 13, 2022 19:23

Plorkyeran: Mar 21, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

maybe it is a very strange startup which sells exclusively to its own employees

# ¿ Jan 20, 2022 17:40

Plorkyeran: Mar 21, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

Achmed Jones posted:

everyone here understands that sometimes people overvalue non-monetary compensation. it has been said what, a dozen times in the past several posts? everyone gets it. settle down.

see that's what i thought and then there were a bunch of posts about how they don't understand that they're overvaluing non-monetary compensation

# ¿ Jan 20, 2022 21:59

Plorkyeran: Mar 21, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

tk posted:

She's happy at her job. She's not really valuing anything incorrectly because she's not really considering leaving. The mansplaining thing is the part where you mistook a polite dismissal of the suggestion ("Oh, I'm happy at my current job. I never have to cook!") for an invitation to explain why that is an objectively poor career decision.

so do you understand that when we are posting on the forums we're talking to other people who post on the forums and not some strangers who don't?

# ¿ Jan 21, 2022 00:22

Plorkyeran: Mar 21, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

or like 200k vs 500k. the spread in pay between seemingly very similar jobs is enormous at the moment, and you can be simultaneously very well paid by normal standards and still be getting ripped off.

# ¿ Jan 24, 2022 01:53

Plorkyeran: Mar 21, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

champagne posting posted:

I thought non-competes were like prenups: Ultimately unenforceable

noncompetes are very weak in california and so they're mostly not a thing for tech jobs, but that's very much california-specific and it's not the case in very many other places

# ¿ Jan 24, 2022 17:11

Plorkyeran: Mar 21, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

ultrafilter posted:

I like how they think of throwing a lot of money around before trying to be a less terrible place to work.

the basic problem with hoping for culture changes is that amazon has been very successful with their current culture. i don't think it's because of their toxic internal culture, but there are probably a lot of people inside amazon who do. becoming a less terrible place to work requires them to first have a meaningful downturn that shows that they can't just keep doing what they've been doing.

# ¿ Feb 7, 2022 22:19

Plorkyeran: Mar 21, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

raminasi posted:

seems like it doubling your headcount costs would be the kind of thing that might grab the attention of people who otherwise wouldn't care about bad internal culture

it's not that they don't care; they think it's a strength. having to double your base salary to be able to continue hire people doesn't disprove that if you continue to be profitable and growing anyway

# ¿ Feb 7, 2022 23:40

Plorkyeran: Mar 21, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

PokeJoe posted:

im interested in staying away from blockchain but would also like to hear about how dumb companies are shoehorning it into stuff for no reason

they mostly aren't actually shoehorning it in. they're just telling investors that they are and then building something which doesn't involve a blockchain

# ¿ Feb 12, 2022 03:23

Plorkyeran: Mar 21, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

actionjackson posted:

yes but once covid started didn't a lot of people leave SF because they could work remotely somewhere else that had a lower col?

also building height restrictions are also a part of the issue

the exodus from sf was extremely overblown. there were people who took advantage of being able to work remotely but it's not like the city emptied out.

# ¿ Mar 4, 2022 00:26

Plorkyeran: Mar 21, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

tk posted:

I think I made more in bonuses last year than I did my first 3-4 years out of school.

last year i made about as much as i did in my first 7 years out of school combined

# ¿ Mar 5, 2022 18:35

Plorkyeran: Mar 21, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

since skills generally degrade in value over time, "i'm offering the same skill set as i was a year ago" is an argument for a sub-inflation raise. you're supposed to be making a case that your skills are better than they were a year ago, not the same.

# ¿ Mar 11, 2022 01:36

Plorkyeran: Mar 21, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

qhat posted:

yes obviously you should be developing more skills on top of what you have but so long as you're doing you're job well that's exactly what happens naturally. if you're just slacking off each day then yes you aren't going to develop but that's a person who should be let go or looking for another job at the very least. so if your employer gives you an inflation or less pay rise, they are low key telling you that you are expendable and if you earnestly don't believe that to be the case, don't bother arguing, look for another job immediately because your days are numbered.

so you seem to be mad about the idea that having the same skill set as you did a year ago is a bad thing, but you also think that it's a sign that someone is slacking off because if they weren't they would have naturally gotten better at their job?

# ¿ Mar 11, 2022 05:25

Plorkyeran: Mar 21, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

qhat posted:

I love this.

You're acting like you're doing the employee a favour by generously offering them any raise, even if it means their purchasing power is less. You're not, and they 100% know it. If they're stagnant, why aren't you just outright calling it out in review? Is that the basis for giving them a pay cut, that they aren't progressing like they should? I mean fine, but this sounds either like someone who should be being utilized better (management problem), or someone who should be turned to generally face the door. Maybe that's what you're actually trying to do, fine, go nuts. As for someone needing to justify their value with other offers I wonder, how many candidates actually come back to you with a job offer to which you counter and they actually accept? Many? If so, then you have my blessing. I doubt it is the majority, and now you're going to have to invest effort to find and ramp someone new at a higher comp, because presumably the candidate left for a higher comp. So good job I guess.

are you pretending to be pro-worker while complaining that underperformers don't just get fired? working at up-or-out companies has always seemed like it'd be loving miserable to me.

# ¿ Mar 11, 2022 22:52

Plorkyeran: Mar 21, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

qhat posted:

I'm saying that inflation is the basis of any pay rise, unless the person is no longer performing at the level they were hired. If the person is performing as expected and doing the job they were hired to do and nothing more, that is the basis for an inflation raise at a minimum. If they're doing the same job and you give them a pay cut in real terms, the only logic for that is you believe you can replace the person at the new compensation level and without any expense to the company. If that's the case, then go ahead! If not, I would seriously rethink your logic behind giving sub-inflation pay raises, because it sounds more like you're getting woody with management philosophy at the expense of the company.

"if you pay a person X it means t you believe you can replace the person at that compensation level and without any expense to the company" is logic that is equally valid for any X, not just values that represent a pay cut. there isn't a magic breakpoint where a sub-inflation raise means that you're paying based on expected replacement costs and super-inflation raise means that you're paying based on some other criterion.

TheFluff posted:

on a philosophical or moral level, yes, tech workers are incredibly overpaid compared to most other workers (or other workers are underpaid; it's the inequality I'm getting at). in terms of market economics though they're really not. tech companies tend to get extremely high revenue per worker, but salaries are as always not proportional to revenue. there's a reason these companies are so profitable.

tech workers are overpaid vs everyone is is underpaid are very different things because one of them is arguing that the capital owners deserve a larger portion of the money.

# ¿ Mar 12, 2022 00:38

Plorkyeran: Mar 21, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

Achmed Jones posted:

ooh at the least that's gonna depend on which side of the line you consider google on.

i think dropbox pays figgies; i think microsoft/linkedin do as well and should be good on all those fronts. netflix people i know work sane hours but that'd be a far cry from optimizing for minimum work time so probably not in the running.

im sure there are a good grip of fairly boring tech companies in the bay area that'll pay 90-100% of faang but i can't name them beyond the above unfortunately

there's a bunch of bay area tech companies that'll pay >100% of faang. they aren't really the top-paying companies any more.

# ¿ Apr 1, 2022 02:32

Plorkyeran: Mar 21, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

four years post-acquisition at my current job and not a lot has changed about my job other than that they're paying me a fuckload more and we're no longer strapped for resources. we haven't had anyone leave either, although one person has very clearly checked out and is resting and vesting.

# ¿ Apr 2, 2022 21:16

Plorkyeran: Mar 21, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

we used to do in-person interviews with the interviewer coding on their personal laptop with the idea being that they're familiar with it and wouldn't have to learn some new environment during the interview. we actually bothered to tell them that in advance and offered the use of a loaner laptop when needed, though, rather than going "hope you happened to bring a laptop with a working dev environment!"

# ¿ Apr 29, 2022 16:48

Plorkyeran: Mar 21, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

Cold on a Cob posted:

some people can't use laptops op. i'm not full blown disabled but i can't use them without ending up in a shitload of pain after like 5 minutes.

not directed at you specifically but i wonder how often companies fall afoul of ada complaints for doing interviews with requirements like this?

it never came up but i can't imagine it would have been a problem if someone needed to bring their own keyboard or whatever too, and we usually plugged the laptop into an external monitor anyway so that we didn't have to peer over the person's shoulder

# ¿ Apr 29, 2022 18:28

Plorkyeran: Mar 21, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

when i am forced to interview people i am doing my best to find reasons to justify hiring them so that i don't have to interview more people.

if i had to interview people for open-ended hiring rather than filling specific positions and the result of the interview had no effect on me then i don't know how i'd ever be able to treat it as anything other than a lovely chore to be gotten over with as quickly as possible

# ¿ May 13, 2022 19:56

Plorkyeran: Mar 21, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

also worth noting that the percentage of interviewers who are assholes and percentage of interviews where the interviewer is an rear end in a top hat are very different things. if you're looking for any excuse to reject someone then you're going to interview a lot more candidates than someone who is actually trying to hire someone.

# ¿ May 13, 2022 20:44

Plorkyeran: Mar 21, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

we have official corporate values but i really don't have any clue what they're supposed to actually mean

# ¿ Jun 24, 2022 23:01

Plorkyeran: Mar 21, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

DELETE CASCADE posted:

how was it incorrect exactly? you think just talking to the hiring manager is an appropriate substitute for actually interviewing with the team?

it's garbage and you know it. there's no reason for you to defend it

you do interview with the team. team placement is basically another set of job interviews where you skip the algorithms bullshit because that was covered already, and you can spend up to a year interviewing with different teams until you find one you like. it's the most hilariously drawn out process possible, but if you can afford to talk to a bunch of teams and don't need to start asap it does work to get you into a position that's a good fit.

# ¿ Aug 6, 2022 06:31

Plorkyeran: Mar 21, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

paying twilio to send text messages for you instead of doing it yourself raises your text message expenses from basically $0 to still basically $0 even with their 10x markup

# ¿ Sep 15, 2022 21:45

Plorkyeran: Mar 21, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

The Fool posted:

I don't like that this word is catching on

i like it specifically because it's so awful

# ¿ Sep 20, 2022 19:32

Plorkyeran: Mar 21, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

"viewmodel" is what you get when you resolve a bikeshed argument by picking the obviously terrible name that someone threw out as a joke. other than the deliberately confusing name it's a reasonable way to make a gui but the name is so awful.

# ¿ Oct 17, 2022 05:30

Plorkyeran: Mar 21, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

the military as a whole is sadly not only a jobs and welfare program, but that is one of the purposes it has

# ¿ Nov 3, 2022 05:14

Plorkyeran: Mar 21, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

if you end up using it regularly you�ll need to find a better spot, but just putting it in front of your monitor for the duration of an interview is not a big deal

# ¿ Nov 13, 2022 23:36

Plorkyeran: Mar 21, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

i spent the last two months interviewing multiple people per week, and yesterday i finally talked to the first candidate that was a strong yes we must hire this person right now

today we got told that we no longer can fill the position. what an obnoxious waste of time for everyone involved.

# ¿ Dec 16, 2022 01:56

Plorkyeran: Mar 21, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

i was the last interviewer in the process and ideally we would have been extending an offer today. i absolutely do not trust the recruiter to do a good job of communicating what happened to the candidate, so emailing them personally is a good call.

# ¿ Dec 16, 2022 23:50

Plorkyeran: Mar 21, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

Sapozhnik posted:

any time i've had the misfortune of trying to source-dive golang code it's been kind of a pain in the rear end

like digging through a huge carboard box full of packing peanuts that supposedly contains a non-packing-peanut thing in there somewhere. everything's an indirection to an indirection.

people talk about how easy it is to read go but my experience with it has consistently been that that's only true if you're talking about it on the level of how easy it is to understand an individual line of code. it's very reminiscent of bad enterprise java except somehow even more verbose

# ¿ Jan 20, 2023 19:44

Plorkyeran: Mar 21, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

i've seen two hires fall through due to people going "oh btw i need a visa sponsorship" at the last minute. one we would have been perfectly happy to sponsor but they just didn't tell us that they had a deadline until after the deadline passed. the other very explicitly lied about their visa status and thought we wouldn't notice or care or something.

# ¿ Mar 22, 2023 20:37

Plorkyeran: Mar 21, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

4lokos basilisk posted:

i feel like if someone is in a situation where they are about to lose the right to stay in the country due to not having a job, you should not expect them to act rationally or be forthcoming at all. they are just attempting to not have their life hosed over by some immigration bullshit.

so what, they chose the wrong game theory move in this situation, but if they are a qualified candidate you should focus on that part

i'm not sure what's unclear about the idea that their actions made it so that we couldn't legally hire them. we still wanted to hire the person who waited too long to tell us that they needed a visa sponsorship! we just couldn't because you have to submit that paperwork before they've overstayed their visa. for a while you could get away with backdating a job offer, but they've cracked down on that. not saying anything when a proposed interview schedule extends past your hard deadline is the exact opposite of trying to not have your life hosed over by immigration bullshit.

# ¿ Mar 23, 2023 19:32

Plorkyeran: Mar 21, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

4lokos basilisk posted:

it was not clear to me reading the original post that the applicant had already overstayed their visa. so the impression i got was that for some ??? reason instead of helping the person with the visa situation, the company decided to bail on them

i - assuming this is in the united states - think the misunderstanding is due to me having personal experience with completely different immigration systems, which may be more lenient in this kind of situations.

like, for example, i would have assumed that the hiring company can solve this problem by treating the situation as if they hired the person from their country of origin, going through all the necessary bureaucracy and following the rules. in that case it would be all above board: the applicant correctly left the country and then found a new job while back in their home country. obviously i am not an immigration law knower, but i feel like there ought to be a legal process where someone whose visa has expired can get a new visa if they find a company to hire them

they were within the "get a new job or you're deported" grace period when they applied, and past it when we extended the offer. if we'd known when the deadline was we probably could have made things work. after that we started emphasizing in the phone screen that we were willing to deal with visa bullshit but we really do need to know.

the whole system is extremely hosed and is clearly designed to ensure employers can take advantage of people on work visas. i am very glad to not have to directly interact with it other than the time i wrote a letter of recommendation for a coworker (i.e. signed a letter their immigration lawyer wrote)

# ¿ Mar 24, 2023 02:49

Plorkyeran: Mar 21, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

raminasi posted:

i will admit that the only signal i feel comfortable extracting from resumes is whether the candidate is aware of standard resume lies

the main thing i get from resumes is just what i should ask them questions about, but i'm pretty comfortable with judging the candidate on if they used a spell checker on their resume

# ¿ Jun 22, 2024 17:48

Plorkyeran: Mar 21, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

KidDynamite posted:

so i got diagnosed with autism earlier this year, and i have adhd. do any of you with autism ask for interview accommodations? if so what are they?

this sounds like a great way to get a "not a good culture fit"

# ¿ Jul 10, 2024 03:02

Plorkyeran: Mar 21, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

i think the singular downside of the switch from writing code on a whiteboard to using coderpad and such was that when whiteboard coding you could declare that you were using python and then just write pythonish pseudocode and if the interviewer complained about you writing something that wasn't actually valid python you knew they'd be miserable to work with

# ¿ Jul 12, 2024 18:24

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# ¿ Jan 18, 2025 17:08

Plorkyeran: Mar 21, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

candidates are expected to use a ruler to ensure each indentation level is kept consistent. candidates should bring the ruler themselves.

# ¿ Jul 15, 2024 21:50

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > interviewing: Senior by reference, not by value

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