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Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007

Clapping Larry
just curious, do they cap like that for managers/directors etc or just for high paid individuals?

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Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007

Clapping Larry
buncha 80s neural net academics either turning in their grave or making a bunch of money i guess

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007

Clapping Larry

ThePeavstenator posted:

It's me, the recruiter calling during work hours, asking about how your new job you've been at for less than 3 months is going (I did not get this job through a recruiter, also new job owns), and wanting to talk about "local opportunities".

i think thats pretty common TBH, thats about when people figure out they made a terrible terrible mistake taking whatever job.

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007

Clapping Larry

Penisface posted:

Yes, this is what traditional work culture here is very much like. However demographics here are crashing hard - I could swear you can almost visually notice the % of foreign-looking people walking on the streets go up - and this means the work culture has to change as well, because lol if you think foreigners come here to bet on the long game of foreverially tiedup salaryman at megacorp. Standard pto vesting schedule is initially 10 days, increasing per year in increments of 1 until 20, but bear in mind this does not include the 15-16 annual public holidays.

i work for a very traditional japanese multinat outside of Japan and there is zero expectation that we will adopt japanese business culture. in japan it is pretty traditional for the natives but if I went there I wouldn't have to start drinking with the boss every night or something.

your japanese colleagues will actually take advantage of it - if they want to change something and not work through the japanese process they will get the foreigner to complain about it directly to the boss because we are outside the etiquette rules. this is sometimes described as the 'gaijin smash'.

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007

Clapping Larry
yeah unless the company has a requirement to address specific selection requirements then don’t bother.

most cover letters boil down to “despite the evidence in my resume to the contrary, this is why you should hire me”

Trimson Grondag 3 fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Mar 7, 2018

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007

Clapping Larry
it's part of the compensation discussion. I had a similar situation with some commission I'd forgo when I was leaving a job so I approached it as a 'make good' - I'm going to be out X, what's the best way of dealing with it so that I'm not out of pocket. in my case it translated to a little more base salary that would cover the gap in 18 months.

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007

Clapping Larry

uncurable mlady posted:

senior product manager, or maybe product director depending on how y'all do poo poo

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

"sales engineer" sounds like it would be equally applicable...

yep this is a hybrid between product management and sales engineering, in a larger company it would be two jobs but pretty common for them to be combined in a smaller company. id call yourself a product manager if you can.

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007

Clapping Larry

Waroduce posted:

The area I need assistance and advice on is title for my role. I discussed my role in an earlier post (quoted below bolded most relevant) and mentioned I would like a title change and some new loving business cards. Considering the advice I received earlier in the thread I asked immediately for Product Manager (former sales, I'm a big believer in asking for everything and making someone say no. Shoot your shot etc etc) and he shot it down pretty hard. Not because it's not an appropriate or doesn't describe what I do but because more senior people have asked for and have not been given it, and the CEO has made a decision that he does not want to use that title in the corporate structure. My COO said that I could come up with something else to ask for and he would consider anything but Product Manager is out. He suggested something like "Product Analyst" if I really wanted something like that as well as "Enterprise Implementation Manager", "CRM Implementation Manager" or well anything but Product Manager

so what the gently caress ya'll think I should ask for.

Head of Technology Delivery

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007

Clapping Larry

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

you get paid some amount less than the value you provide to the company. that amount is, preferably, as small as possible, in order to maximize the company's consumer surplus

plz explain the the gender pay gap in this framework

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007

Clapping Larry

Janitor Prime posted:

Don't work for them directly, they are all poo poo. Sell software/hardware/services to them to get the fat checks.

The startup I'm at is working on mobile network optimization algorithms that we deploy in their core networks. It reduces their CAPEX spending on new base stations, saving them literally billions of dollars over just 3 years. It's amazing going to all these different countries across the world, installing a server and watching their network capacity grow 30%, then coming home to a PO a few weeks later.

when i quit previous big telco I got heaps of offers from vendors to go sell back into that telco, it's basically the same as government. collect 120k redundancy from telco, go work at a vendor selling to telco, get rehired at telco three years later, repeat.

as a product guy telco has some advantages in that they have effectively infinite capital, so if you can write a business case and get it signed you can get pretty much any size project funded or go acquire a company or something. the problem is they are so slow that by the time it happens it doesn't matter any more anyway.

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007

Clapping Larry
disregard anything written by "Current Employee" pretty much.

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007

Clapping Larry
"my consulting firm believes in work live balance"

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007

Clapping Larry

Ploft-shell crab posted:

any qs you should be asking to interviewers that are specific to consultancies?

do your customer contracts give consultants a certain percentage of time offsite? or do clients expect every billable hour will be delivered on premise?

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007

Clapping Larry

Corla Plankun posted:

my corolla lease is only 200 bucks a month and its hard to imagine an amount of money i would have to make that could convince me to upgrade to anything else since i just use it to sit in traffic

i drive an unnecessarily fast car to work every day and it still makes me smile every single time i get in the thing, but even if you are a car person you shouldn't go crazy on leases.

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007

Clapping Larry
its a hard balance, it seems like going full mr moustache and attacking every expense is going to be pretty stressful for you. on the other hand getting a bit of savings under you would be of enormous benefit. gotta find that middle path.

the actual answer is go get paid more per suggestion, saving becomes a lot easier when the pile of money is bigger.

* i'm a boring straight white dude in a stable releationship who has never had mental illness challenges so probably deeply unqualified to give advice, please feel free to ignore.

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007

Clapping Larry

TheFluff posted:

new grads earn completely insane figgies in the us west coast tech hubs, yes. http://danluu.com/bimodal-compensation/

this is super interesting, thanks. reading the bit about the o ring model, seems a bit depressing that 'people are more productive when not surrounded by idiots' is still at the 'theory' stage.

edit with relevanbt quote:

danluu posted:

Another theory that I've heard a lot lately is that programmers at large companies get paid a lot because of the phenomenon described in Kremer's O-ring model. This model assumes that productivity is multiplicative. If your co-workers are better, you're more productive and produce more value. If that's the case, you expect a kind of assortive matching where you end up with high-skill firms that pay better, and low-skill firms that pay worse.

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007

Clapping Larry
yeah usually in the range of 15-30%, which is only paid if the candidate stays for a certain period (six months or so).

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007

Clapping Larry

Kevin Mitnick P.E. posted:

theres companies that make a fuckload reselling aws calling themselves msp. dont ask me how

it’s about an 8% rebate, not that exciting. you can then make another 15 to 30% on managed services

azure has better rebates which is why their growth is bonkers at the moment - they have thousands of small MSPs vacuuming up peoples two host VMware clusters into ~the cloud~

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007

Clapping Larry
the only use of the words salary, pay, compensation etc in that article are in the thing about asking for salary history

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007

Clapping Larry
I’ve been walked in Australia too, it happens.

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007

Clapping Larry
i thought the okcupid CEO told you to go gently caress yourself which would have had a nice ring to it

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007

Clapping Larry
make it automatic, tell your boss, get promoted

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007

Clapping Larry

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

MSPs are a dying business, rackspace included

you don't want to get mixed up with that poo poo

yep - I work in product at an MSP and half the poo poo we used to do as a service is now very easy to automate. we survive by building further automation on top of that and selling it to companies with stone age IT and mountains of technical debt, but that won't last for ever.

it's a good way to get exposed to a lot of different technologies but I would't recommend it long term.

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007

Clapping Larry
salary survey - 170k all in as a non software product manager in Australia. 35 year old white dude and bad poster, no degree.

seeing what a software PM makes in silica valley gives me the envy, but for non software jobs I think I’m doing okay.

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007

Clapping Larry
reassignment doesn’t mean no work - there is endless trivial poo poo to be done. you will just never get to make any sort of decision or have any influence again.

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007

Clapping Larry
also a lot of the advice here is very useful for interviewing so thats gotta be worth a few mil in productivity by not hiring deadshits

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007

Clapping Larry

Waroduce posted:

TLDR - left company to get out of sales. Got into project/product management in new company. New products not selling, being asked to do sales.

all else aside that is a poo poo compensation plan for sales and the base salary is offensively low. enterprise CRM sales in Australia is $280 to $300k OTE, $110k base at least.

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007

Clapping Larry
if you gave a dates only response to a request for a reference over here that would be about the strongest possible negative reference you could give.

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007

Clapping Larry

Rex-Goliath posted:

yup i’m aware. and that’s where i’m hoping to place my base comp at the end of this. i’m pretty confident.... i’ll put it at 70% that by the end of the summer that’s where I’ll be. if not though it’ll be time to embrace the suck again and start firing off emails.

my network is waaaaay bigger than the last time i did this though plus i actually have a lot of friends in this town so it won’t be nearly as painful as last time.

from your descriptions it sounds like your current consulting gig is pretty good in terms of conditions and support compared to what I’ve seen/experienced. I’m sure FAANGs are nice places to work and can match that + $$$ but I wouldn’t run out and get a job at Accenture or something and expect the same level of non monetary treatment. sorry if this is super obvious advice.

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007

Clapping Larry
yeah we put senior when we want to pay someone really smart and capable a bunch of money? we have junior and grad roles too.

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007

Clapping Larry

Schadenboner posted:

Juniors are hired, seniors are grown. If you need to hire someone because you can't nurture your goddamn juniors then you suck as a manager, IMO?

:shrug:

seniors are grown...somewhere else, then we harvest them, then a FAANG takes them from us. it’s the circle of life.

we heavily promote internally as well, but you gotta do both.

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007

Clapping Larry
fighting the urge to quit before new job secured, I’d get paid out eight weeks of leave and if I give eight weeks notice then that’s 16 weeks of runway before I have to touch savings. I’m a bit too risk adverse to do it though I think.

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007

Clapping Larry

Not a Children posted:

4 months is a long time

but it's shorter than you think. Get the job first.

yeah I know, it’s just toys out pram fantasy at the moment. they are merging our business so my work for the next six months is stuff I know will be thrown away but has to be done to maintain our seperate p&l till then.

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007

Clapping Larry

CLASS 2 PERVERSION posted:

i threw my toys out of the pram and quit at the start of may. the last few months i was there was one of the most miserable times in my life and i have never looked back at all and my life now is the opposite. everything is lovely now. as of now i can still live for a few months without running out of cash but the idea of not having a job in 6 months time when i really need it was stressing me out too much, so i'm back looking for stuff to do now.

I guess it depends how bad it is. maybe make a big chart on the wall where you mark how bad it is day to day.

it isn't bad in any aggressive way, there's no bullying etc and I'm well paid. its more just insane decision making, and the delicious combination of 1. constant organisational crisis mode locally + 2. glacially slow Japanese decision making globally. oh well, first interview phone screen tomorrow and I've hit up my network.

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007

Clapping Larry
got referred to the hiring manager for a FAANG job, maybe this will let me skip one of the nine interview rounds.

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007

Clapping Larry
first interview as part of project GTFO this Wednesday. More money at a smaller and middling reputation firm (as opposed to my current very large and poor reputation firm). it's really exposed a weird kind of brain worms for me - I have a lot of ego tied up in being part of a 'global business' and the opportunities for travel, work placements overseas etc. i guess the rationale is even though we are kind of poo poo in Australia there are opportunities to work in other bits of the business that might be less poo poo? hard to unpick. waiting to hear on the FAANG thing, good reputation + large in thet case but a more junior role so less cash most likely.

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007

Clapping Larry

Rude Mechanical posted:

Have you thought about jumping ship and moving or transferring overseas? Asking as a fellow Australian.

yep thats the main appeal of my current gig, using it to get on a plane at some point in the next 12 months and not come back for a few years. thats the brain worms part though, is it worth staying in a poo poo situation because of the *expat dream* or should i just go get a job that pays more at the local co. I've asked about global stuff but everything moves glacially slowly.

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007

Clapping Larry
I don’t have a degree so for me it’s an intercompany transfer if I want to go to anywhere except the UK.

anyway interview this week at smallco, FAANG screen next week. the FAANG role looks pretty amazing but the selection criteria is maybe 60% aligned with what I do. will see.

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007

Clapping Larry
had the first interview with smallco, seems like a fairly standard MSP operation. interestingly though the role actually has direct reports which I wasn’t aware of - I’d be running one of the two product dev teams but actually running it, not just in the normal product virtual team sense but as people’s manager. that’s something I’ve wanted to do for a while so that’s appealing. I’m sure there’s lovely parts to people management but I want to find that for myself. will see what they come back with $$ wise and do the second round.

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Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007

Clapping Larry
meeting a rare non poo poo recruiter is such a joy, 95% of them add no value.

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