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distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


Rex-Goliath posted:

lol at trusting a recruiter with a .docx

only send out .pdfs

They copy and paste into word if you do that

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distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


Just saw "the bulk of turnover is voluntary" as an hr response to a glassdoor review about high turnover

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


Phone posted:

can I get a gut check on my pending role switch and how turboboned im potentially going to be in a few years’ time?

im switching from mainframe development (cobol) to data engineering (read: oracle dev). the new role isn’t going to be sql dev 100% of the time and I should be able to do aws stuff if i push for it.

my concern is going from incredibly specific toolset to another incredibly specific toolset and my resume is going to wind up looking like I only deal with dead or dying vendor locked environments.

This sounds fine, there's plenty of demand for good sql devs and will be for a long time. It's the cobol of the 21st century so is appropriate really.



I don't get postings asking for 5+ years of professional cj experience AND a degree in cj'ing. what does it add?

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


lancemantis posted:

in an industry whose original puzzle interview format got thrown out only recently (and still probably not universally) and whose real intention, interviewer conscious of it or not, was to see if you could confidently bullshit right to their faces and have them buy it, I don’t think openly saying “I don’t know” is a good idea

“Sounds like you’re giving up brah, not curious enough, not driven enough, not Stanford material enough”

bullshiting about something is way way worse than being able to admit you don't know (which is itself a positive!)

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


That's great

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


Just got sent a technical test which had zero overlap with the job ad or my cv. It wasn't even a bad test, short with no algorithms bullshit, it was just for a completely different job!

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


CRIP EATIN BREAD posted:

thats because the requirements of the project you'd be working on changed between now and the last time you talked to them

Maybe if I apply again next week it'll be a cool project instead of boring enterprise data app 30.4

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


thinking of giving my (3 months!) notice before having a firm job offer. Good idea y/n

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


Corla Plankun posted:

dont do this unless you work in a country where your company would extend you the same kindness

They have to unless I go swear at a customer or something, it's part of my contract.

My concern is more that time to complete job search plus 3 more months is a long time but I also don't want to give my notice then find that getting a new job is way harder than expected. I've started already and it's not as fast as last time.

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


TheFluff posted:

i did this with the same three months and it worked out fine but it was pretty stressful (i quit when i hadn't even gotten to a second interview with anyone yet, iirc). would not necessarily recommend


one to three months notice is a very common contract clause in countries other than the us, yes. goes both ways tho (for layoffs - getting fired isn't really a thing that happens)

Thanks. I think I'm going to wait until I at least have an interview with somewhere I'm enthusiastic about, so far only the more mediocre ones have responded

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


I'd be passed if I drove six hours for an interview and didn't get it.

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


I get 25 days at financial institution, and took 24.5 this year.

Just saw one place offering 30 and was like "looks great" but actually it was a scam and the 30 included public holidays.

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


As long as you are trying to test detail orientation under pressure and pronounce the words properly I think it's just about an OK question.

Ironically making the file 100MB makes it easier as it screams trick question.

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


Hired.com has some pretty decent opportunities on it in London. It's a bit slower than using a recruiter but way more pleasant. Only problem is that no one seems to read the bit on my profile about where I want to work, the just base it on my current job.

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


JawnV6 posted:

in my interview for current job at a FAANG, doing a really simple RLE encoder on a whiteboard, my big check was if (c = last_char){

for 5 minutes it sat there on the whiteboard, the silliest little mistake of = instead of ==, while we hashed out other problems in the code, until i noticed it


especially if you haven't sat on the other side of the table, EVERYONE stumbles live. it's fine. don't beat yourself up, don't stress that they're reaching the "wrong" conclusions about you

Does that sort of mistake matter at all though on a whiteboard test?

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


Cold on a Cob posted:

lol isn't their economy basically flatline? i think they already know but haven't figured out what they can do differently

It's being doing pretty well recently (by developed country with declining population standards) and the unemployment rate is incredibly low, which in a normal country would make the "you should be grateful to even have this job" unconvincing

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


Arguably the low unemployment makes the productivity numbers look worse than they should but everything I've read about the work culture makes it sound like they are correct

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


lancemantis posted:

I'm suddenly thinking of how the frat pack at theranos would paste ESPN articles into emails to make it look more like they were working and the pedo subcommander would spend all his time keeping an eye on peoples office hours

the email thing sounds like something some salaryman would do to pass the time waiting for the boss to leave, because its bad to leave before the boss leaves, even though the boss is currently sleeping off last nights hangover at his desk

I have previously seen coworkers paste articles into word/a text editor and read them there

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


Some of the take home tests I've seen are obscenely long, and are given super early in the interview process (before even speaking to someone!)

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


Went to sort of resign today but they instead immeadiately offered to make all the changes required so that I could continue to work for them (this really surprised me). So I'm no longer searching for a job, just recruiting which is nice.

Places which I have gotten interviews at/passed technical tests vs been rejected have seemed super random though. I've had interview offers from some really cool places, but also been rejected/failed tests for a real mix of places as well. There was a job for a charity I really wanted which would have been like 1/3 my current comp but they never even replied :(

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-loneliest-job-in-a-tight-labor-market-11545224400?redirect=amp#click=https://t.co/L8FFMNd8iN

Lmao.

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011



Crystal Romans, a recruiter in North Carolina, set up a face-to-face interview with a job candidate for a position at a large bank. She confirmed the time, 8:30 a.m., the night before and had a colleague stationed to walk the candidate into the room. When morning came, the candidate never showed.

Panicked, Ms. Romans sent text messages. She called. She left the applicant a voice mail. Silence.

“It’s a running joke here of the level of audacity,” Ms. Romans said of job candidates’ escalating bad behavior, which frequently includes “ghosting,” or vanishing without a trace on the people trying to hire them.

“We don’t forget these things,” Ms. Romans said. “No one forgets.”

These are trying times for the nation’s recruiters. Once as popular as prom kings and queens—and often overrun with hundreds of qualified job applications for an open position—recruiters find their standing has shifted in the booming economy. Instead of vying for their attention, would-be workers blow off recruiters’ calls and ignore their emails.

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Recruiters report they are stood up, kept waiting for appointments and regularly ridiculed online. That’s because in the tightest labor market since 1969, job seekers have the upper hand, and they know it.

Ghosting—when applicants or current employees disappear and are impossible to get ahold of—has become so pervasive in the job market that the Federal Reserve highlighted the trend in its latest Beige Book, a roundup of anecdotal information about regional economic conditions.

People who have ignored a job interview say they have reasons for doing so.

Gabrielle Papa, a 29-year-old in New York, applied for a data analyst role in January. During an initial phone screening for the position, a company representative asked for her salary history, which she declined to provide, citing local laws that make such a question illegal.

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Ms. Papa was invited to an in-person interview but decided the night before that she didn’t want to go through with it. She told the company she wanted to reschedule, and then did not return a follow-up call to set a new time. She soon got hired at a tech company.

“I felt very empowered that I knew I could walk away from something that made me feel uncomfortable, and given the market, I could stand a chance to find something else,” Ms. Papa said.



Corus360’s recruiting director, Kristin Miller, checks her LinkedIn account in her office. PHOTO: JOHNATHON KELSO FOR THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

At Corus360, a technology-services company near Atlanta, recruiters have seen an uptick in people canceling interviews at the last minute; one person canceled a phone call three minutes before it was scheduled to begin, said Kristin Miller, director of recruiting at the company. Others fail to show up to interviews or, worse, leave a job only days after starting, without giving notice.

The headaches can have financial consequences. Chris Dove Jr., a recruiter in San Antonio, lost $9,000 in commissions in recent weeks after three candidates failed to show up for their first days of work as diesel technicians. All three completed multiple interviews, got hired, filled out HR paperwork and then disappeared.

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“It’s a lot like being punched in the gut,” Mr. Dove said. “Even though I got them all the way to the [hiring] point, I get zero dollars.”

The client, Mr. Dove’s biggest, dropped him after the candidates ghosted. “Somebody has to be to blame,” he said. “It’s just unfortunate that it’s me.”

Loren Boyce, director of talent acquisition at cloud provider DigitalOcean, has been recruiting engineers since the late 1990s and said hiring now is tougher than during the dot-com boom. “You want to bang your head against the wall,” she said, stressing that companies’ hiring managers should share responsibility with recruiters for finding great people.

She says she has learned to spot when recruiters on her team have had enough, and sends them home early. “Sometimes I can just tell that they’re done,” she said.

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A decade ago, many recruiters could fill roles by contacting candidates on job boards. Many of those sources have dried up, so now they look for untraditional ways to snag potential hires. It’s rare now to catch an already-employed person with the right skill set itching for a change.

“We’ve sat at our desks before and said. ‘Are our phones even working anymore? Why is no one calling back?’ ” said Ms. Miller. “You really start to wonder.”

Keturah Melton, a recruiter in Fayetteville, N.C., hires for positions that require security clearances at defense contractors. She will send 75 to 100 emails a day to professionals who may be a fit, with maybe 10% responding to say they aren’t interested. Most stay silent.

“I would say it’s pretty lonely,” she said, adding that when potential hires do express interest, some engage in never-ending phone tag or promise updated résumés that never appear.

One candidate recently cursed Ms. Melton after she called with a job opportunity for a systems-engineering position. “I hate you people,” she said she was told. “He was just saying the ‘f’ word: ‘This is so effing annoying. I don’t know where you got my résumé.’ ”

Before Ms. Melton could apologize, he hung up.

Longtime industry veterans are quick to note that job seekers may not hold so much power forever. “We could go into a recession,” said Laura Mazzullo, owner of the New York recruiting firm East Side Staffing, “and everyone’s begging for new jobs.”

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


Trimson Grondag 3 posted:

the only use of the words salary, pay, compensation etc in that article are in the thing about asking for salary history

its actually a complete mystery why they are struggling to get candidates. no one knows. top possibilities include their phones being broken and millenials being feckless

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


CPColin posted:

The prospective boss brought up my reputation for being a cranky poo poo and I told them that it was initially well-deserved, but was hanging around much longer than it was true. I think they also brought up how I might not work as hard on poo poo I don't care about. I dunno, it was a while ago and I never asked my reference, "WHAT DID YOU DOOOOOO???"

This is an insanely bad reference. I know someone who literally a company after she left and still got a positive reference from her ex boss

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


Haha oops. Missing word was "sued"

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


CPColin posted:

I should have clarified that this was a personal reference, not a did-you-actually-work-there reference, so I was expecting them to answer questions along the line of, "What's it like to work with this person?" I think the one person got tongue-tied and over-shared a little.

One time I was applying to places, I had to scramble because I put a bunch of current coworkers as personal references and the hiring manager called my then-boss first, who told them that company policy was that current coworkers were not allowed to act as references, but could only confirm dates of employment. The hiring manager made me come up with three completely different personal references and I wanted to say, "Can you just ignore my boss and use them anyway?"

Fortunately, enough people had left that company that I was able to find three people willing to do it within a day or so.

lol what a bullshit rule

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


Asleep Style posted:

I was under the impression that asking for references (let alone actually calling them) had fallen out of favor, is that not the case?

Some hr systems ask for them beefore you've even spoken to anyone (i put in Mr On Request)

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


Acer Pilot posted:

that place I was talking about yesterday offered me almost 30k more than I’m making right now. almost as much as the salaries posted for the faang I’m hoping to get into. thanks for all the advice. not saying a number definitely works.

Congrats!

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


unpacked robinhood posted:

Started a new job today too. I haven't found a microwave and the coffee is 30 cts :argh:

wtf they make you pay for coffee

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


hobbesmaster posted:

yeah, senior developers invent other names for the etl stuff they do all day

they are working on a strategic distributed high performance data platform, the junior guys are writing scripts to run in aws and scrape competitor's prices.

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


What's the implied order of worthiness here? Citizens of USA, skilled foreigners, unskilled people?

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


Fiedler posted:

gently caress that open the borders

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


It sounds radical but the emancipation of the serfs probably sounded radical at the time as well.

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


Fiedler posted:

and one clarification: actual immigration laws are not now and have never been motivated by the plight of the unskilled laborer.


If they were they would let unskilled labourers move to high income countries.

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


Is putting dollar amounts in your cv on projects you've worked on a good idea? I've got one which has a fairly clear value attached and (for the number of people involved) quite large cost savings. idk if it seems a bit tasteless though.

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


Blinkz0rz posted:

imo estimation is fine if you can benchmark the costs beforehand

for example: "automated billing analysis process to save finance department $XXX/month in operating hours" or some such nonsense

Mine pretty similar to the second case. Thanks all for the advice, in it goes.

Another question: how do you phrase items where you did most of the development work on a project (say 70-90%), but it also had contributions from people on other teams. e.g. you designed and wrote an automated process, another dev on your team did some alerting around it, and someone in the finance department worked out how to fix their workflow so that it was automatable. At the moment I'm putting "lead developer on automation project to xxx" (no caps). I don't want them to think that was a formal title or that it was just a dev project, but do want to communicate that I took responsibility for the development part of the project and delivered on it.

distortion park fucked around with this message at 10:34 on May 28, 2019

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


qhat posted:

Show what you did rather than telling them what you did. What I mean is, saying you were "lead developer" is as you said sorta thin and leaves a lot to the imagination. You're telling them what you did and hoping they take your word for it. Mention some specific details of what did, like designed the architecture, gathered requirements from stakeholders, implemented the bulk of the code in the project, what was the result etc. Doesn't have to be longer than a Twitter post, but the details will sell it because now you're showing them what you did.

It's going to get a bit wordy if I do that for all the projects i list - I've added some words at intro paragraph for that job to try and communicate it. I like qirex's suggestion of moving to using a verb as well.

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


e: nvm

distortion park fucked around with this message at 09:47 on May 29, 2019

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


KidDynamite posted:

sent a project in a week ago and have received nothing from the recruiter to indicate that it's been received or passed on to whoever is supposed to review it. i sent a follow up email the next day. should i bother sending another one today?

this is lovely, and inconsiderate af

it's super lovely. I once got a response to a (very long) take home project of "we got loads of people to do this so won't be providing feedback and will take a while to get back to you"

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distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


i don't get explicitly paid overtime or whatever but the pay has a big performance component and I've always been happy with it - if it was bad i could leave easily enough (i realise in general this isn't a good system!).

in france you seem to accumalate extra holidays via working more than 35 hours a week. i thing it only applies to some people but it seems pretty cool to me, some people end up with 50+ days off a year if you include public holidays and their base holiday.

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