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meatpotato posted:lol they came back today and said "actually, we can only do <way less than before>", which is about 10% more than my last job but the additional commute or moving expenses would completely negate and likely exceed the increase in salary :/ Jesus that's some serious cajones for them to come back with a ~25% swing downward Keep at it. It's a numbers game, 100%.
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Sep 28, 2018 02:27
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The trick I always used before a big interview was taking a day off before to write out questions and having half a bottle of wine to help me sleep Another thing I've learned -- Always be casually interviewing, even if you don't need a job. Interviews are a lot easier once your answers become rote and the interview itself isn't a Culminating Experience of some sort This goes double if you work in an At Will state. Might as well use that poo poo-for-brains policy to your advantage
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Mar 6, 2019 18:07
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raminasi posted:i thought my onsite went good but not great, and the resulting recruiter mentions application status and next steps but notably not “we’d like to move forward” and it’s killing me not knowing what that means. i assume It means they're interviewing other people and seeing how that goes before picking their faves. You're still in the running in all likelihood Ciaphas posted:asking my interviewer for PTO deets like the OP suggests seems like an extremely forward question to ask, but I'm coming up dry for Don't ask directly about benefits or pay during an interview, they will tell you about them whenever they've decided they want you. You want to keep them in the dark about your expectations as long as possible so they're invested once you've wowed them enough to spend money on you. If you simply must know, raminasi's advice holds true. Ask about anecdotal experiences, it gets you information without making it look like you're pumping them for raw information (and sometimes they'll take the hint and cough up the policy info)
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Mar 6, 2019 18:47
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phrasings of the question that don't miss the point
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From where I see it you're stressing out about a thing that is wholly outside your control now. No amount of fretting or analyzing is gonna make a difference, so chill out and focus your attention on other things. That said: Handholding on algs is expected. Most people don't perform well when put on the spot, but your ability to work collaboratively and synthesize information quick is A Big Deal If you did complain about your current job a lot (and the temptation is always strong, don't get me wrong), that usually is not great. An interview is about what you bring to the table for the potential employer, not about the circumstances that led you to needing to interview (or worse, your inability to deal with those circumstances). Even the dead-eye question of "so why are you looking" should be met with nonchalance and absolute positivity; you can always handwave it as "just wanted to see what was out there." Take it as a learning experience and do better next time, regardless of outcome.
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Mar 6, 2019 19:52
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lmao this morning I had a recruiter ask me if I'd stop interviewing with other companies if I received an offer from the one he's representing Yeah sure dude let me just chop off some of my BATNA just for you it'd be my pleasure raminasi posted:that place i thought had rejected me actually wants to move forward and i just misinterpreted the recruiter's email Congrats dude. Rex is right, there's zero disadvantage to playing it slow Ciaphas posted:i regret that i volunteered salary requirements first yesterday, and the only number i thought of was my no-go minimum (old *1.05) poo poo happens, nerves get in the way esp when you're not super used to interviewing. Learn and do better next time. At the very least, your fumbled salary requirement should be old*1.3 unless you're dying to make a change Don't ever question your worthiness when it comes to salary. We live in a capitalist world -- You Are Worth As Much As You Can Negotiate. Employers know that on several levels and will use it like a bludgeon to keep you second guessing your self-advocacy. Never forget. Not a Children fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Mar 7, 2019 |
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Mar 7, 2019 16:03
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Ciaphas posted:My logic at the time was that as I'm unemployed I'd rather increase my chances of landing a job I am actually sort of interested in, and 100k felt like such a hard--greedy? not true obv but it's what i was thinking--stop Being unemployed does change the dynamic a fair bit, esp psychologically, but even if they know you are out of work you should play it like you're free to take your time and be discerning with offers. When they ask what you want, tell them you're more concerned at the moment whether the position is a good fit and that you need to know more about the day-to-day, benefits, etc before you're ready to put a number forth. If they're insistent, you have two choices -- be willing to walk away (this is most effective if you've made it past at least one interview) or throw out a number on the upper end of a researched range (or higher if you're feeling bold). Again, don't sweat it. Just learn from the experience. It took me several interviews to become comfortable with stonewalling on salary.
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Mar 7, 2019 16:24
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That sounds like a great way to kill time w/cold calling recruiters Too bad I don't live in a protected state. Still might be fun to put that stipulation forward and just sandbag 'em when they ask
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Mar 7, 2019 16:46
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qhat posted:Cold calling recruiters don't have any lucrative jobs anyway. And its sometimes okay to tell the third party recruiter because your motivation to get paid as much as possible aligns with their motivation to get the highest possible commission. I agree with this to an extent, but esp if you’re getting underpaid and want to reach market parity (or beyond), I think it pays to keep your numbers close to your chest until there’s an offer in front of you. You have to assume every bit of information you get is being passed on to the person potentially paying them (hint it’s not you) because their #1 goal is to get you placed; actual compensation is secondary. You force their interests to align with yours if you get them to invest time in that placement and get to “I’ll take this offer if they meet x y and z” instead of giving them a chance to talk you down several steps beforehand. If you’re already making good money then yeah they’ve really got nothing to offer you so you may as well save your time and moonshot em
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Mar 7, 2019 17:03
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raminasi posted:that also sounds like you might have met with one of those rear end in a top hat interviewers who thinks whiteboard algorithm juggling is the final word in competency and either they or someone who disagrees with them is looking for ammunition to make a case one way or the other Naw they wouldn't waste time on a 3rd interview if they were just looking to poke holes Now if it was a 1st interview, a solid amount of those are just self-back-patting extravaganzas
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Mar 7, 2019 18:30
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It happens dude. Can't control the other people in the process Keep interviewing. It's like with houses or apartment hunting -- it can be disappointing to miss out on one you really, really thought you'd like, but there are plenty out there and you'll find another that stokes the same excitement if you keep looking.
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Mar 13, 2019 17:29
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CLASS 2 PERVERSION posted:see, I worry about this, because according to my calculations I am way the heck overpaid right now for someone with my experience and people are going to look at me funny when I say I want double of what they expect to pay me You are worth what you can negotiate and not a penny less In fact, once you have the outlandish salary it's easier
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Mar 19, 2019 00:17
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raminasi posted:lol the recruiter just got back to me with "i'll try to get the increase you asked for, but to be totally transparent, i've never heard of an adjustment that significant." Hahahaha a $7k adjustment is beyond the pale for them? They're puttin' you on On the other hand I've had a company abruptly stop negotiations and rescind a verbal offer when I asked for $5k over their offer (or, barring that, a weekend to consider) so what do I know
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Mar 19, 2019 14:53
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ratbert90 posted:You know that was a trash company and gently caress them. Oh yes. Besides that, they were originally interviewing me for a senior position with a higher salary on offer but they pulled the bait and switch on me when I told them I would want some time to learn their processes and standards before I'd be comfortable stamping their drawings, saying that I didn't have enough experience for the senior role but I could totally get there soon!!!! I had sketch vibes the whole way through, so they probably did me a favor by yanking the offer raminasi posted:the only thing I can think of is that the counter was so little of an increase that they knew it was a token and I didn’t actually care Pulling an offer for something like that is a grade-A-moron shoot-themselves-in-the-dick power play. If they do, gently caress 'em.
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Mar 19, 2019 15:33
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Last time I saw a form that asked "what was your salary in your last position" I answered "Decent, but not as good as the salary in my current position" gently caress anyone who tries to bilk information out of you e: No, I did not get a call back
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Mar 25, 2019 20:55
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cheque_some posted:when I was interviewing at my current job they insisted on doing all of this over the phone In my experience companies and even recruiters are very loathe to send you anything in writing until they think you're a lock these days I wonder if it's because they're worried you'll bounce your offers off someone else? But you can do that anyway so I don't really see the point.
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Mar 26, 2019 11:22
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I guess it's to get you more sunk-cost in terms of time when you're dealing with that Joke's on them once people catch on though, once you lose any sense of shame about lying to recruiters they're just wasting their own time
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Mar 26, 2019 19:20
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Scionix posted:Where/how do yall practice for interview poo poo? Im gonna start job hunting in ~1 yr and I am very out of practice because my last 3 years of work has been a lot of janitoring other peoples code and not thinking about new problems. Interview a bunch. Like take any interview you can get. Set your linkedin to Looking and go nuts on recruiters trying to get at you.
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Mar 27, 2019 18:12
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the talent deficit posted:all of it
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Mar 30, 2019 16:22
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lol just lol that anyone would offer their skills as at a level of less than 100% competence on a resume, the very first thing the person making a hiring decision seesFlat Daddy posted:I didn’t practice my salary range avoidance lines and ended up hemming and hawing so bad over the phone in a initial recruiter call when asked (“they won’t take applicants without a number”). at least it ended with me just not giving an answer rather than me farting out a low number and feeling like a dick hole afterward, like I’ve done before Practice is 90% of the game when it comes to this. They do it all day. You do it when you are forced to. Equalize the playing field and just practice practice practice. Doesn't matter if you use rote responses with recruiters, you're trying to win, not to impress. Shrug it off and find another position to try again
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Apr 10, 2019 17:45
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Always possible that that line is a gambit to get you to react with "well anything in the blahblah area would be fine." It's a way for them to gauge your interest in the position and whether they can play it against you. It's dumb but possible.
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Apr 12, 2019 13:33
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Mao Zedong Thot posted:knowing what you want/can get and asking for it > not saying anything > not knowing what you want/can get and saying something I'd personally disagree. I'd always try to get them to state a number first because, hey, their budget and expectations could be beyond yours. Ask for more than what you want if you're gonna ask because until you know the budget you're at an informational disadvantage. I'd say if you're gonna ask for a number shoot for the highest number you can say with a straight face and uncracked voice. If they really want you they'll still make their offer. If they were otherwise hiring you on the basis that you were cheaper than the next guy, what do you think your coworkers/work environment will be like? And seriously, if you don't know, you don't know. Don't feel like you've got to say a number just because they put you on the spot.
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Apr 24, 2019 02:16
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Scott Baio Nudes posted:still have ~year of college and no discernable skill or talent. how do i land a job? i dont have any friends in computers You have a year to write a resume and start applying for jobs. So uh... get on it. Start the applying 4 or more months before you graduate. Better yet, start going to field-relevant meetups, groups, and social events and you'll form the connections you need organically. That will get you waaaay better prospects than playing resume roulette.
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Apr 24, 2019 02:27
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Acer Pilot posted:that place I was talking about yesterday offered me almost 30k more than I’m making right now. almost as much as the salaries posted for the faang I’m hoping to get into. thanks for all the advice. not saying a number definitely works. Hell yes dude. Play it cool, wait for the other offer to roll in, freak out for a bit over your decisions, and then enjoy your new job and figgies
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Apr 25, 2019 13:25
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Acer Pilot posted:Ok. At this point I'm just gonna ask for more money and treat this like the only offer. Doesn't hurt to name my price after their initial offer at this stage, right? yup, negotiate with them per normal. at will employment works both ways, don’t hesitate to write your dear john letter if the faang offer blows them out of the water.
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May 1, 2019 03:29
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pointsofdata posted:wtf they make you pay for coffee guillotine
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May 13, 2019 18:09
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Hughlander posted:Had what could only be described as an 'adversarial' interview yesterday. Rather than a conversation interviewer needling in a raising tone looking for specific 'right' answers. Really sucks because A) He's the VP. B) Every other session went great. But even if offered I don't think i'd want to work under someone like that. The only correct response to an adversarial interview is to call them on their bullshit and/or walk out If this is how they treat a stranger they're ostensibly trying to impress, how do you think they'll treat you once you're in the fold?
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May 15, 2019 16:27
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Hughlander posted:What's some good ways to approach a negotiation on salary? They put their number forth first. That's good! Now tell them what you want. They'll say yes, no, or something different. It's really that easy. If they reject you for trying to negotitate, you didn't want to work for them anyway; if that's how they treat someone they want to entice, just wait til you see how they treat someone they already have in the fold. It does help to have another offer on the table that you'd be willing to take. Even if it's not better, it's easier to stick to your guns psychologically.
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May 24, 2019 21:13
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Captain Foo posted:correctly built in a bunch of extra travel time to the schedule which I of course didn't end up needing so now I'm sitting at a nearby cafe anxiously watching the clock and posting Better than the alternative. my very first job interview I showed up 3 hours early Just relax and enjoy your coffee. Splurge on a sandwich, even
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Jun 17, 2019 13:29
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My favorite is being contacted by a recruiter, filling out whatever BS questionnaire, stonewalling them on salary, getting them to cough up their range (which tops out at a figure $25k under my current mark), saying "nah son," then getting asked "would you like to make a counteroffer for their consideration" Dude you came to ME and haven't told me dick about the position, so of course I'm not
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Jun 25, 2019 19:23
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hobbesmaster posted:did you at least say you weren't going to take a massive pay cut for that position so they could confirm that yes their offered salary is trash? I told them that their quoted max was below market, and I would not be interested in that salary. Polite, but firm. Scott Baio Nudes posted:i live in ca but they responded with just a base. this would be a career change so honestly the base is ~okay~ but if my current employer counter offers than id be throwing away too much. is there a good way to answer without closing the figgies ceiling Drop it til after the interview. Wow them, then engage
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Jun 25, 2019 20:05
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KidDynamite posted:i’m hoping and feeling like i might get the figgie call today. i’m having trouble thinking of words I can string together that amount to no you give figgie first. please provide safe wisdom. I have the following in mind. If you're far into the process and you know an offer is imminent, you can more or less force their hand if you want to. "I'd like to evaluate the offer as a whole, including salary, benefits, and leave time. Please send me all available information and we can discuss after I've had a chance to review all aspects of compensation." or "I don't have a number in mind, but will consider any reasonable offer. I'm sure we can come to a mutually satisfying agreement." If you're feeling bold you can always say "Just let me know what your budget is and I'll let you know if we can come to an agreement." Or if you just want to go scorched earth you can always go "I dunno, what does the supervisor for this position make?" and ask for that
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Jun 27, 2019 11:25
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The Clowner posted:what do you say to recruiters who are really insistent on getting a number? do I tell him a bullshit number to start and go up when I get the offer, or do I just outright say get hosed? TwoQuestions posted:Lol I've had recruiters refuse to email me, they only will communicate verbally, and wouldn't give any info about the job until they heard how much I would do it for. Definitely not sketchy at all. They do this because a) they know people feel more pressured to capitulate on the phone and b) they want to filter/push you through as quickly as possible The more placements they make, the more commission they make. They may or may not be affected by the salary they manage to negotiate for you, but always know that they're more focused on making multiple connections than one big one. They are trying to work numbers, and to turn that against them you need to be enough of a shoo-in placement that you can make them put up with actual negotiating skills
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Jul 2, 2019 17:10
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Frustration is temporary but figgies are forever (until they aren't) Anyway good luck
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Jul 11, 2019 00:03
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pathetic little tramp posted:Is relocation just impossible these days? My company moved me to Florida and I just loving hate it here, but even with 12 years experience as a full stack I get to the phone interview and the conversation is just about how ridiculous it is to expect me to move. I'm not even getting to the tech interview these days because they don't want to move me. I've got to start lowering my price or explicitly saying I'm not expecting them to cover the move. I just can't take living in this fuckhole of a state anymore. This seems really weird to me, in my experience HR practically clacks its heels when you say you're open to relocation. Maybe let the issue sit until you're at the offer stage?
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Jul 11, 2019 13:41
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pathetic little tramp posted:That's been my experience before too. When I worked in Kentucky and San Diego, I got relocation offers. It's only ever since I've gotten to Florida. I literally replaced the part of my resume that shows my current location with Current Location | Available to Relocate. I would just take location off of your resume altogether, and let the whole relocation thing be an incidental footnote when you apply. You want to get as far into the process as possible without digging into the details on that one. If you adequately entice them, your relocation should be an afterthought. If you're truly desperate to get out, you may end up having to eat that cost, unfortunately.
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Jul 11, 2019 15:02
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HR doesn't make company decisions outside of "how do we best legally protect the company and get workers what they need (besides money) to make the company more money" Your boss referring to HR is blatant cowardice, if not contempt for you and your request
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Jul 11, 2019 19:08
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4 months is a long time but it's shorter than you think. Get the job first.
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Jul 17, 2019 01:49
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TimWinter posted:I interviewed someone today who asked me, rapid fire, questions about our testing stack and then retracted his offer mid interview. His reason was "your stack isn't wrong, but it's more trouble than it's worth to maintain". Beautiful
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Jul 18, 2019 15:03
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pathetic little tramp posted:A company got in touch with me yesterday and I saw that it was contract, but I let them call me anyway and after their spiel I got to pull a "Oh this is contract? Oh I'm sorry, I don't do contract work." on em. There's no insurance, 900 miles away with no relocation cost, the contract is 2(!) months and 32/hr for full stack? Hell loving no what is wrong with you. This was for a senior developer. I was flabbergasted. holy poo poo, takes balls just to make that phone call I'm not sure what the hell they were thinking. maybe that they'll strike gold if they just call enough people?
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Jul 24, 2019 16:22
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This is one of those situations where the base salary kinda matters. Re: base comp going up 70%, Are we talking like 80k -> 135k or 200k -> 340k? One offers a substantially different quality of life, the other is obviously very good but is of relatively less marginal utility. Doesn't sound like you're super hung up on making ALL THE MONEY so getting to 6.5 figgies might matter less to you than being challenged at your job It kinda sounds like you're fed up with your current job, which plays into that as well. Do you realistically think they'd bring you to parity if you got to have the comp reevaluation? Do you think you'd get a counter if you tried to leave (and more to the point, would you realistically even consider taking it)? Do you see a way out of the logistical aspects of the job that are wearing thin?
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Jul 26, 2019 15:51
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