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rotor
Jun 11, 2001

Official Carrier of the Neil Bush torch
How has taught me that maintainable code is just another word for "code I wrote"

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rotor
Jun 11, 2001

Official Carrier of the Neil Bush torch
I've given my boss month+ warning that I'm looking for another position but it was because we'd had a lot of history together and I trusted him not to gently caress me over and because replacing me wasn't really possible.

It's ok to do it imo but be verrrry careful. Even if you trust your boss, do you trust his boss not to gently caress you over? How about his boss's boss? Because they'll hear about it and they can gently caress you over too.

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

Official Carrier of the Neil Bush torch

qirex posted:

I just remembered that rms opposed annual raises for fsf employees because he thought if instituted they would eventually earn infinity dollars

its factually true and when we're all immortal this post is gonna look really stupid qirex

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

Official Carrier of the Neil Bush torch

CarForumPoster posted:

man I gotta defend qhat AND say someones being too hard on facebook? I dislike posts from both those things!

I (very briefly) worked on some poo poo at a defense co once that I have some regrets over. facebook aint poo poo compared to things that are designed to or do kill thousands of innocents like smoking or bombs. I dislike and no longer use facebook, there are plenty of good things that came from it, perhaps at a cost to society that is unpalatable.

building and renting out the worlds most powerful propaganda engine to the worst people on earth is not identical to but is just as bad as building bombs.


I dont post in this thread but I popped in to say that I view working at Facebook to be immoral unless you're there to deliberately sabotage it. It's been apparent for many years who upper management is and they wont have their minds changed by people inside. You may not be pushing people into the ovens, but you're alphabetizing the victim lists.

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

Official Carrier of the Neil Bush torch

Aramoro posted:

Are folk seriously discussing the objective morality of working for different companies in a thread dedicated to getting payed hundreds of thousands of dollars for little work?

Yes. The idea that I can't find facebooks actions immoral because i'm paid well strikes me as odd. Do only baristas get to think facebook is evil?

quote:

I do love a little holocaust comparison in the interviewing thread.

when the shoe fuckin fits

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

Official Carrier of the Neil Bush torch

Aramoro posted:

You absolutely can, it's just that every FAANG company and most other companies paying big numbers are also immoral, just in different ways. Is Facebook worse than Apple? Probably, both are still bad though.

Sure, every company is immoral but some are far far moreso than others. Last I checked, Netflix was not facilitating genocides.

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

Official Carrier of the Neil Bush torch

PokeJoe posted:

Yeah you can draw the line in the sand wherever you want and if it's just $BIG you're after you don't have to do war crimes and make a propaganda horror machine to do it

Exactly. Facebook doesnt pay THAT MUCH more than its competitors. If you can get a senior engineer job at fb, you can do it most other places and make more or less the same money. The "but i need money" argument doesnt hold water. Simply get your money elsewhere. Or just say "i dont care/prefer to remain deliberately ignorant."

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

Official Carrier of the Neil Bush torch

Pie Colony posted:

comparing fb to the holocaust or even weapons companies is exactly what i was talking about. like fb/ig/wa has some baseline amount of value. my friend went from being broke as poo poo to being a "content creator" on ig for example. i use ig to look at animal photos while i wait for the subway and wa whenever i travel

the rise of computer mediated communication was going to happen with or without fb the company. i'm also not gonna pretend that my work has much more value, and i don't think anyone else here in big tech should either

btw to that one guy, netflix absolutely experiments on engagement lol

do you honestly think "experiments on engagement" is the same as "facilitating genocide?"


the rest of your post boils down to the dril tweet about how its impossible to tell if drunk driving is bad or not

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

Official Carrier of the Neil Bush torch

KidDynamite posted:

they know i have a job and am not in a rush. why not just reject me and move on?

it sounds like their intentions changed in the middle of your interview cycle but want to keep you in the loop at some point in the unspecified future for when they might be hiring again. Which is like a 80% rejection but not 100%.

They might also be fishing for a willingness to relocate to NY.

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

Official Carrier of the Neil Bush torch

tk posted:

They may actually get back to you but I'd forget about it.

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

Official Carrier of the Neil Bush torch

KidDynamite posted:

it's apple.

i just want to know if i passed because i can't take more hits to my confidence.

apple would just tell you if they rejected you. this sounds like you passed but someone lost headcount, which happens.

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

Official Carrier of the Neil Bush torch

hahahaha

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

Official Carrier of the Neil Bush torch

Rudest Buddhist posted:

gently caress I said a number

godDAMMIT

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

Official Carrier of the Neil Bush torch

Achmed Jones posted:

well there's oldjob but they only hired ninjas and rockstars, not wizards, so idk if it's a good fit

and the console cowboys? what of them?

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

Official Carrier of the Neil Bush torch

CPColin posted:

Every time someone tries to get me to "familiarize" myself with AWS I flatly refuse

this thing where software engineering has become 80% configuring existing software packages is bullshit and i hate it

the minute i see or hear the word "kubernetes" I check out of the convo and start thinking about the weekend

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

Official Carrier of the Neil Bush torch

my homie dhall posted:

you guys ever reject someone with the right skills just because they seem like they would be annoying personality-wise to work with?

100% yes

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

Official Carrier of the Neil Bush torch

my homie dhall posted:

how do you word those concerns in the post-interview meeting? bad culture fit?

"doesnt seem like someone who would get along well with the team"

"Feels like interactions would be high-friction and cause problems"

"Unnecessarily combative and antagonistic"

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

Official Carrier of the Neil Bush torch

Achmed Jones posted:

"seemed like an rear end in a top hat due to X"

depending on how formal your interview debriefs are, this is good too

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

Official Carrier of the Neil Bush torch

my homie dhall posted:

what if they aren’t really an rear end in a top hat, but they just constantly made reddit jokes the entire interview or otherwise seemed to lack self-awareness in a way that was not necessarily evil or even would impede them at their job, but you would find annoying dealing with day to day? thinking like John Candy in Planes, Trains, and Automobiles

do you reject those guys?

i mean idk how bad it is but if theyre just real abrasive with no social skills, yes. If theyre just kinda unfunny dorks, no.

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

Official Carrier of the Neil Bush torch

4lokos basilisk posted:

how to not say bad things about current company and answer the question of “why do you want to find a new job”? i think i was even asked “why i want to leave my current company” which seems like a curveball with no good answers

because if i am giving the impression that what i currently do is big impact, complex, and i take quality seriously then what would be the valid reason to leave that is not “company sucks”

on the other hand if i say that my current job is not big impact and its easy and quality is not a goal then this makes me look like someone who is not worth hiring

dont talk poo poo about your current job unless there's something flagrant like "I've had 4 managers so far this year" or the company is clearly circling the drain.

generally you want to just say noncomittal bullshit things like "I feel like I'm ready for new challenges" or "I'm trying to realign my career to do X and I think this position is much closer to what I can find at my current company" or even something as pedestrian as "your company is about an hour closer to me than my current place - that commute is killing me"

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

Official Carrier of the Neil Bush torch
my number one piece of career advice (for everyone) is: do lots of interviews. Do them every 6 months to stay in practice. If you dont actually want the job you're interviewing for that's even better. Because when you see a job you DO want, that is not the interview you want to be your first interview in 8 years.

It will help you get past all the bullshit and the fear and anxiety and all the rest, it'll get you experience on what people will ask and what people will say, and it will even broaden your professional network. Interviewing for jobs you dont want is cool and good and everyone should do it WAY more than they do.

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

Official Carrier of the Neil Bush torch
if you're saying to yourself "oh i dont want to waste their time" gently caress them, waste that hour of their day, they're getting paid for it.

if you're saying to yourself "oh i dont want to waste my time" gently caress that, 12 hours of your time every six months to a year is not that valuable when compared to the career advancement benefits it pays.

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

Official Carrier of the Neil Bush torch

nudgenudgetilt posted:

you went back to 2004, registered an account as jawnv6, then kept doing your thing for almost 20 years

jesus christ

jawn you gonna just sit there and take this poo poo??

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

Official Carrier of the Neil Bush torch

kitten emergency posted:

do you think people describe themselves as, like, tomcat devs?

uhhh [raises paw]

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

Official Carrier of the Neil Bush torch

dioxazine posted:

i was being sarcastic!

I ... I dont think we allow that any more, do we?

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

Official Carrier of the Neil Bush torch

dioxazine posted:

i hope this doesn't happen consistently

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

Official Carrier of the Neil Bush torch
apply to google, as a joke

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

Official Carrier of the Neil Bush torch

hobbesmaster posted:

oh I should totally reply to that recruiter (er sourcer) that sent me an email last Tuesday and see what they say

lol you should

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

Official Carrier of the Neil Bush torch

go play outside Skyler posted:


interviewing out of curiosity is really fun.

this is what i keep sayin

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

Official Carrier of the Neil Bush torch

nudgenudgetilt posted:

i just had an interview where i'm 99% certain the candidate was being coached. they had lots of weird audio issues getting going, lots of weird pauses before answering, and the kicker: after giving me a vague description of a past gig, the candidate said "you should explain that more", then went on to poorly expand on what they'd said.

my favorite was the interviewee was really struggling with this basic question, then suddenly dropped, then came back after 5 minutes saying their internet had died and finished up the question rapidly and with no questions.

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

Official Carrier of the Neil Bush torch
for longer coding interviews my goto used to be "write console-mode minesweeper" until i started getting a bunch of people who'd never fuckin heard of minesweeper

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

Official Carrier of the Neil Bush torch

champagne posting posted:

I dislike fizzbuzz. it tells me nothing as an interviewer and even less as an interviewee

give me a problem that contains something your team use a lot. call an api and do a thing, transform some data, make a website show A Thing

alternative have some code prepared and have your interviewee tell you what is happening in said code. I tried this once and it sparked good conversation

i love fizzbuzz because it tells me within 15 minutes whether its worth carrying on with the rest of the interview.

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

Official Carrier of the Neil Bush torch
like idk maybe you guys dont have this issue, but around half of the people I interview cannot do a fizzbuzz without a lot of coaching. One person tried to argue with me about how if statements worked.

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

Official Carrier of the Neil Bush torch
yeah like i get it, interviews are stressful but I can only lower the bar so far. Like i dont even insist you get fizzbuzz perfectly right, but you cant struggle with syntax and you cant be confused about how if works vs if/else.

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

Official Carrier of the Neil Bush torch
programmer interviews are bad, especially on the low end, because its a lucrative field without any real accreditation body or process. So its flooded, especially at the low end, with people trying to fake it until they make it.

edit: and i mean god bless those people, i wish them the best of luck, but if you cant do a fizzbuzz you aren't doing a good enough job of faking it.

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

Official Carrier of the Neil Bush torch

Quackles posted:

I actually saw an opinion article in the Journal of the ACM (Association for Computing Machinery for those who don’t know— basically IEEE for programmers) suggesting that programming is a profession, like being a lawyer or a doctor, and needs a professional organization and accreditation process. The article made a convincing case.

yes, i strongly agree with this or a union or fuckin something

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

Official Carrier of the Neil Bush torch

Pie Colony posted:

guy who asks fizzbuzz in interviews:





i can't believe this keeps happening!

the dudes are not good, my dude

the partial explanation is that my org is QA, and QA typically does not attract the best of the best.

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

Official Carrier of the Neil Bush torch

Pie Colony posted:

fizzbuzz is fundamentally worthless because it gives you ZERO signal if the interviewee gets it right

you don't know whether they can do the job or whether they are a first-year programmer

ask a question that actually matters, if someone would have failed fizzbuzz, they would fail that one too

I use fizzbuzz to rapidly winnow through candidates. You are correct inasmuch as you get zero signal if the interviewee gets it right, but as I mentioned before, it rapidly tells you who you can safely pass on. Its the first gate, not the only gate.

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

Official Carrier of the Neil Bush torch

Pie Colony posted:

you would have 200 more seconds for the good (doesn’t have to be hard) question is my point. the only way asking fizzbuzz is more efficient is if you walk out your candidates immediately after failing fizzbuzz, which i wouldn’t recommend for basic decency reasons

I absolutely will do this. There is no sense wasting everyones time and it gives the interviewee a strong signal where they hosed up and how they hosed up without having to explicitly provide that feedback which my company policy prevents me from doing. In addition doesnt give them any false hope about maybe this job will come through. It may seem ~indecent~ to you or whatever but it is the kindest thing I can do in the position i am in.

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rotor
Jun 11, 2001

Official Carrier of the Neil Bush torch

PokeJoe posted:

it would make software a lot better and we would get paid more, on the other hand I don't like jumping through hoops 🤔

me neither and yet thats basically all i do all day any more so why not one more

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