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raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice
my soulless property management company even voluntarily sent a letter out saying that federal government workers wouldn't be charged late fees or considered in arrears until a month after the shutdown ended, which surprised me

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raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice
lol just did a phone screen where question 1 was typical prime number stuff and at the very end of the interview dude is like "by the way, there is a thing called a sieve of eratosthones which lets you quickly find many primes up to a given limit" and links his own github with his personal example solution

like dude i'm not gonna bust out a sieve for the first half of a 45 minute tech phone screen

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice

Ciaphas posted:

i have been utterly panicked the last day over exactly this happening, yeah

my insurance lapses tomorrow until i get my COBRA docs so i can go with either that or healthcare.gov and oh my god what if something happens before then or i can't afford it or my retirement reserves run out or or or

ugh

cobra coverage is retroactive to your qualifying event

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice

Aramoro posted:

I really hate asking for whiteboard algos in interviews because it doesn't really tell you much about the person. Like you're not going to give someone 10 mins to solve a problem in real life. As a software engineer I'm much more interested in being able to explain why your code works and how sometimes you might trade off a very very clever solution for a testable one. Started doing code reviews in interviews, just small bits. They let you demonstrate a lot of knowledge in a short space of time and it is more like something they'd be doing in their job.

can you suggest this to literally any other hiring manager

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice

DONT THREAD ON ME posted:

I wish more places would just ask for a loving code sample that we can discuss in the interview. I have a few PRs on github that demonstrate that I know what I'm doing way the gently caress better than any take home code test could.

no, you see, you could be lying about those. they can get a far better indicator of your competence by running you through a gauntlet of tests that an entire industry of studying for has sprung up around.

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice

JawnV6 posted:

which one

yes? someone was probably offering a job, not a seat in class?

it’s really impossible to judge that story without knowing the terms in question

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

never done it before, not going to start now

of course unlike a lot of posters in this thread i'm not allergic to recruiters, either

do you know a good recruiter for nyc fintech

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

no. i haven't had to do this in a long, long time.

not that i would want to know such a recruiter. lol @ "fintech"

do you have a more succinct way of describing technology in finance or

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice

Pie Colony posted:

literally who cares? that is not shady at all, nor should you feel bad for a recruiter. what most likely happened is the recruiter contacted the company, the company did actually look at your github as part of their screening, then copy-pasted you an email they send to all of their reach-outs.

this would be a substantial deviation from the way third party recruiters typically work with hiring managers. it’s not impossible but it’s abnormal.

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice

KidDynamite posted:

this is the poo poo that gets me. they obviously know the system can be gamed. why is the process still the way it is?

extremely :same:

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice
i'm pretty sure that 90% of people looking up 2d array syntax documentation are either preparing for or actually doing tech screens

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice

Rex-Goliath posted:

a 16% raise for a decrease in quality of life doesn't really sound appealing to me but i also don't know the extent of how boring your current work is

the new bonus is most likely substantially larger than the old one

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice
i got drunk and bitched to my boss that i felt underpaid and that i wasn’t learning anything in my role. he said “well you’re not wrong” and texted me a job lead the next day with a guy he knows.

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice

Cold on a Cob posted:

a rare good boss???

“boss” isn’t quite the right word, he’s the head pm for my group. so he’s still in a direct managerial capacity for me. but both him and my actual manager (who was the one who said in December that the only way I’ll get paid what I’m worth is to get a new job) are loving fantastic which makes it extra frustrating that everyone above them is such a huge moron

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice

FMguru posted:

come to rest in a better company, recruit them to come work with you

a question I’m trying to figure out how to diplomatically ask this hiring manager is “why aren’t you already employing the guy who put us in touch”

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice

Captain Foo posted:

this is a bizarre maneuver on both ends

we were all out drinking, and if I recall correctly, he actually started it? something like “now [since you’ve been interim team leading] that you have management experience you’re being super undervalued” and I said “you think I don’t know that?” and it went from there

the main project I’m working on has been so mishandled from the very top that it’s going to go down in flames, wasting something like eight developer-years, and I think this guy and my actual boss are getting into “gently caress it” mode because they know they’re gonna (unfairly) take the blame

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice
i know this gets brought up like every dozen pages but is https://www.amazon.com/Negotiating-Your-Salary-Make-Minute/dp/0931213207 the salary negotiation book or is it something else

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice
woo I got an on-site I didn’t expect. now I gotta figure out the lie for taking a day off. (not because my group is suspicious, but because we’re friendly.)

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice

idk about whether you're qualified for ~dAtA sCiEnCe~ or should get a clearance but i'll say this: a big thing you're gonna run into is the bias against people who've left academia. (this may apply less if you look for more sciency, statistical modeling-focused roles, so maybe prioritize those.) there's a substantial contingent of hiring managers out there who just assume that we're unemployable because we don't care about the quality of our work or don't know how to meet deadlines or stupid poo poo like that. (not that those people don't exist, but they exist outside of academia too, and insofar as they're more concentrated in academia they're not the ones who are leaving.

idk about salary in general or chicago specifically but i'd be astonished if you couldn't swing at least low six figgies.

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice

jesus WEP posted:

if you can’t commit to a dog, get a long doggo

even if you can commit to a dog, still get a long doggo

long boys best boys

dachshunds were specifically bred to be annoying

pet the heck out of everyone else’s dachshunds but don’t ever get your own

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice

DONT THREAD ON ME posted:

Rest of my interviews went well. I got two questions that I didn't have good answers to but I just said "I don't have a lot of knowledge but here's what I do know" and he seemed pretty satisfied.

this is a good sign

my contribution to salary survey: $150k total in nyc finance (tech not trading), after 8 years of unrelated academia + 2 years of industry (i'm a white man)

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice
bounced by another tech screen, why does this never get easier

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice

ADINSX posted:

What was the question if you don't mind my asking? I'm assuming it was one of those coding challenges on coderpad or something.

What language do you typically do those in? Most of my interview prep is doing easy and medium problems on Hackerrank in python. While its my preferred language for actual work, its especially suited for whiteboard coding or quickly creating solutions to toy problems.

“write isPrime”

i just get so loving nervous that I lock up and that takes me thirty minutes, leaving me very little time to get to the real question, which was some word counting thing with bizarrely specific output requirements that made me strongly suspect that they built a question around a solution rather than the reverse

but hey, solving toy problems under extreme time pressure with someone watching you is probably a necessary core competency for the work they do, so good thing they screened me out

and I used f#, which was a huge goddamn mistake because my interviewer also knew it and was therefore disappointed when I didn’t give him a six-line sieve

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice

Schadenboner posted:

I've come to the realization that, if I'm going to go back to school in the summer/fall while keeping my family obligations at least marginally satisfied, I'm going to need to have a job that doesn't regularly require 50 hour weeks and that probably means stepping back to desktop or even help desk.

:rip: my career.

family, school, and job can legit each be a full-time commitment, trying to do all three at once is definitely gonna require some compromises. just make sure you're happy with your priorities (and it sounds like you are) and make the best of what you got.

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice

gonadic io posted:

Just had a company take great pains to explain to me that I was not in a culture "fit" interview, but a culture "add" one

i like this idea but lol @ advertising it during an interview

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice
talked to a goog recruiter today. some highlights:

him: so we do interviews differently here than most companies
me: why do you say that, the entire industry has copied your process
him: ...yeah, but we still tell people this

him: and here's some resources for preparing for the phone screen, including this article called "hacking the google interview"
me: what do you think it says about your process that it can be "hacked"
him: ...i get that feedback a lot

my flippancy was a product of me actively trying to practice not giving a gently caress

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice

cheque_some posted:

what's people's take on vettery

one of their recruiters (as in, to actually work for vettery) was supposed to call me today but just...didn’t. so that’s a good sign.

DONT THREAD ON ME posted:

how's that going for you? i really need to get in on that

not great. it’s really hard for me. i haven’t found a good solution but “interview for jobs you know you don’t want” is my current attempt.

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice
current pet peeve - the (internal!) recruiter who betrays having read literally none of your work history by calculating your years of experience by subtracting the year of your most recent degree completion from the current year

i worked before grad school, champ, but thanks for removing all doubt that your company actually cares whatsoever about the experiences of people it hires. just gotta get them whiteboards in, that's all that matters.

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice

mekkanare posted:

What's the justification for two coding interviews by phone before an onsite with the same FANG company? Is this normal or should I ask the recruiter wtf is up.

super borderline? i had this happen at a not-faang once

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice
onsite in 15m, feels like I’m walking to my grave

why do I care so much about this

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice
i thought my onsite went good but not great, and the resulting recruiter mentions application status and next steps but notably not “we’d like to move forward” and it’s killing me not knowing what that means. i assume :rip:

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice

Ciaphas posted:

asking my interviewer for PTO deets like the OP suggests seems like an extremely forward question to ask, but I'm coming up dry for :decorum: phrasings of the question that don't miss the point

ask about actual vacations they’ve taken (when and how long)

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice

Not a Children posted:

It means they're interviewing other people and seeing how that goes before picking their faves. You're still in the running in all likelihood

unless their recruiter flat-out lied to me, their hiring pipeline is wide enough that that’s not how they work. supposedly, the hiring committee met yesterday to give a thumbs up or down, and this sure didn’t read like an “up” email.

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice

FMguru posted:

sounds like you were their second (or third) choice. theyre offering to their first choice right now - if that doesnt work out, theyll make you an offer, if it does work out youll get a "best wishes on your continued job search" email (or just be ghosted)

they’re expanding like crazy, so there’s not just one, or two, or three roles to fill. and there are two more pre-offer administrative steps after this that they couldn’t conceivably be waiting on anyone else for between today and tomorrow morning when I actually talk to the guy.

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice

Schadenboner posted:

Then you're n+1 where n is the number of roles they're looking to fill. However, if there are multiple offered roles then the chances one of their primary choices will turn them down increases so don't necessarily go and "spike their Tab with Drano" (as the kids say these days) just yet.

this stops being true once n is large enough though, right? because the company needs to pipeline the process to actually get the hiring throughput they need. like, google doesn’t have an n; you go through the gauntlet and the hiring committee gives a go or no-go without respect to who actually needs what. and they described that part of their process as identical to google’s.

ADINSX posted:

What do you think you did poorly on? At least if they say no and don't offer any feedback (I've never had a "no" offer feedback) you have something to focus on improving on... The worst is when they pass and you think you did basically everything right.

my guess is some combination of:
  • needed too much handholding for the algorithm part
  • system design didn’t do good enough error handling
  • “behavioral” was too much of me just bitching about my current job, which I knew was a risk but I think underestimated its degree

he said they give feedback on “no’s” but ngl it won’t be fun to hear

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice
that place i thought had rejected me actually wants to move forward and i just misinterpreted the recruiter's email

he volunteered ballpark comp and even the absolute lowest number is his range was a 33% bump from my current, now i gotta fight the urge to just say "YES GREAT I LOVE IT WHATEVER SOLD"

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice
that also sounds like you might have met with one of those rear end in a top hat interviewers who thinks whiteboard algorithm juggling is the final word in competency and either they or someone who disagrees with them is looking for ammunition to make a case one way or the other

in which case a failure means nothing other than that their process sucks

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice

qhat posted:

Interviewing is garbage

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice

qhat posted:

Rofl that they asked you to do iterative tree traversal. My bets are on them being a bunch of self important pricks so don't worry.

yeah that's a bad question on its face and then "now do it iteratively" is roughly equivalent to them farting in a bag and making you smell it

Ciaphas posted:

i think they just wanted me to prove that i can use binary search trees recursively and non-

that is exactly what they were doing

now ask yourself: how important is it to you that your co-workers be able to use bsts recursively and non-, under pressure? is it so important you'd blackball them if they couldn't do it? what do you think it's like to work with people for whom it is that important?

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raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice
don't apologize to them because they wasted their own time by having a poo poo process, that's not on you

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