Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

actually, second really hard rule: if you do have to say a number, don't make it a loving *range*. you are allowed to leave it as understood that you'll accept infinity figgies if it comes to that.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

the one thing i've learned from setting exams for students is that you can 99% of the time tell who is going to fail and who is going to pass by looking at the first 1-2 answers. pretty sure very elaborate interview processes is artificial busywork for those conducting them.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

advisory roles can be real sweet deals, if its your actual area of expertise you may mostly find yourself surprised how you can make some good money for rattling off stuff that takes a minimum of effort on your part but adds a lot of value for them.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

money is good either way. i have never made the real big figgies, but made more than i need and when i had my then-current angle on my career ground to a halt two years ago i just quit and have mostly been loving around with whatever i like since then. don't have the money to retire (and looks like a proper job in an entirely different direction is now on the horizon again), but the flexibility where i can decide to just not earn any money for a couple of years is pretty sweet.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

i really don't think there is any real disagreement happening here tbqh. ultimatums are certainly bad strategy in general.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

yeah, sure sounds like it, but are you somehow dependent on this being that or is it already on paper something you'd take on or what?

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

in that case: congratulations!

i have been hired a couple of times to positions where the ad just has kind of nonsense almost-contradictory requirements to single me out. ethically dubious but sometimes circumstances kind of call for it, and i think you should view it as pretty flattering.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

but i think buff has already said that they are ok even with what they are on paper being hired into, which would make this conversation largely academic.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

fourwood posted:

otoh telling someone their throw-away small talk anecdote is wrong in an interview is also some pretty weird poo poo tho so really nobody looks good here

this pretty much, no real shade on op, but this was two-sided weird.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

i do a bit of contract work making decent (though not great) money on the side, and the real upside there is that i can be a bit picky about the causes i support. currently one for (state, public) medical research and one in environmentally conscious energy trading (pricing environmental effects)

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

Workaday Wizard posted:

so... how does that work exactly? are you a company of one?

presumably so, i am and it is pretty common. there's both fairly light "personal" companies (i believe this is the case in all of scandinavia at least) for the purpose, but it is not that rare to do something with proper limited liability for this stuff. good since you can get hosed over a bit on software, even with appropriate insurance. plus some tax advantages at the cost of a bit more admin (not very hard either way though, as a one-man software outfit it is not like you'll have inventory or relevant depreciating assets or such stuff which otherwise make things messy).

Cybernetic Vermin fucked around with this message at 11:53 on Aug 17, 2021

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

yeah, there's a lot of value in working fewer hours, and i think it almost invariably turns out healthier than the other computer toucher dream of retiring early.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

DELETE CASCADE posted:

"i put barely any thought into my moderation activities" isn't the slam dunk you think it is

i mean, it should fall under the schadenboner rule, where it is rightly bannable to make up dumb words and force them into every post as if that in itself is comedy.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

i have never been in a good agile project and i *still* think the vague efforts to be agile were largely forces for good.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

sounds like a good thing, but it is impossible to know, and while you shouldn't overthink it i think it might be one of the following 37 reasons: 1) the boss is actually you from the future, in past loops future you offered you the job immediately, but getting back to his time machine he looked in the mirror and found his entire face was ravaged by horrific scars and wh

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

KidDynamite posted:

holy poo poo you are a champion.

"champion" was not the word i reached for, but it is impressive nonetheless

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

shaggar was right?!

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

also hash tables is a kind of unfriendly case to start out with, since it involves assuming a good hash function exists (i.e. everything gets distributed randomishly), the amortization of resizing (so either a complicated distribution of the work or some ops sometimes being linear), a constant key size (i.e. the '1' here involves hashing the key you're indexing with, so if the key is large that should be counted), and arguably some potential bad constants (stuffing a cryptographic hash function into things gives you pretty certain randomness, but it'll be quite slow in practice).

hash tables are a bit abused even in theory, where people will slot a O(1) into their algorithm without commenting on the hash function, and in theory of course even a cryptographic hash can cause unbounded collisions in bad cases.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

tk posted:

Early on in my career I learned that if you explain this to an interviewer who is just looking for O(1) as the answer that you won’t get the job.

otoh for the best-paying job i've gotten i got into a shouting match with the interviewer about some tree balancing detail. (i do not advice this approach)

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

Corla Plankun posted:

DS/ML feels like a super big bubble to me so I got away from putting it on my resume. its only a matter of time before business people figure out you can ask an intern to clone DS repos to mmuch the same result

otoh one would have thought so about a lot of computer touching things you can now get paid all the money in the world for

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

KidDynamite posted:

was asking the dev interviewing me questions at the end of a tech screen "... so how does company x do that?" "i don't know how many other interviews you're on but this is for company y"

loving woof. i got both questions correct so if i don't get it going to say it's entirely on that.

in which case good riddance, what kind of idiot would think less of you as a candidate for that really?

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

jesus WEP posted:

an hour of your day not spent cooking is a bigger bennie than the 5k

the comparison should be what it would cost to just pay for those same deliveries, in which case if you really use all 520 a year it is probably a bit low, but, eh, i'd have to agree it seems a kind of dubious benefit since i doubt you *should* (or even want) to eat 10 delivery meals a week.

real easy to start liking this kind of benefit, which is why companies keep offering them, but all the more reason to remind oneself that they are invariably way worse than just getting a bit more cash.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

i mean, all the reasons other than not paying for food she could no doubt pay for with a fraction of a raise are perfectly fine.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

ultrafilter posted:

If you live in SF or NYC your kitchen probably sucks--or you may not even have one--so the appeal is bigger there.

"the comparison should be what it would cost to just pay for those same deliveries", i am not telling anyone who doesn't feel like it to cook, just don't count getting the food for free as a bigger benefit than what it would cost to pay for exactly the same thing (and people very often do attach themselves to that kind of stuff to an extent way beyond the monetary value).

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

Corla Plankun posted:

if the meals are pre planned they're worth more than the cost of the food delivery though

when i say "cost of those same deliveries" i don't mean cost of transport, i mean total cost of making the food be a thing you own in your house. i apparently expressed this in a very bad way, because i don't think it is a fundamentally complex idea.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

Asleep Style posted:

I understand logically that the meals are probably worth less than the cash that could be had elsewhere, but if I were in her position I'd find it really hard to leave

yeah, if she likes the job and the real benefits (money, wfh, tasks, etc.) then cool on all that, people often get real stupid about some pretty worthless benefits though.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

bob dobbs is dead posted:

theres a reason why i use the word figgieland

because you're a huge weirdo in that way?

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

tk posted:

I very much disagree that making decisions based on factors that are important to you is not a mature thing to do.

sure, but it is dumb to make decisions based on what you think is important to you without very careful examination. otherwise the boss will just say "we're all family here" once a week and then go on to gently caress you over for the rest of your life using that hook.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

tk posted:

You’re always going to get hosed over. Stop chasing that dragon.

at least make it clear in your future posts that you're management and speaking accordingly.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

tk posted:

Line of conversation is that somebody doesn’t want to leave their current job that they’re happy at in order to chase more dollars. That is a good decision.

no one has argued against this supposed "line of conversation", we're currently on valuing economic benefits correctly.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

ultimately what i am saying is: never value anything that can be bought on an open market higher than at its sticker price.

which should be obvious, but lots of people do. including good friends of mine sticking at jobs they mostly dislike because it does poo poo like buy them food and drink which they can trivially afford themselves anyway.

arguably you should most of the time value it way closer to at-cost, but baby steps.

Cybernetic Vermin fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Jan 20, 2022

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

tk posted:

She's happy at her job. She's not really valuing anything incorrectly because she's not really considering leaving. The mansplaining thing is the part where you mistook a polite dismissal of the suggestion ("Oh, I'm happy at my current job. I never have to cook!") for an invitation to explain why that is an objectively poor career decision.

and again i will point out that this is an idiotic statement, if you're making 135k you already don't *need* to cook, if the statement is "i am happy at my job" fine, stop throwing in "i get food".

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

do you mean "more powerful" in that the psychology is different? in that case you are indeed correct, and is why company management loves random little perks which tie into stuff with emotional basis, e.g. food, vague organizational loyalty, family, and such.

don't embrace that though, just as you shouldn't go around imagining your boss if your very good friend you shouldn't attach outsized value to the company feeding you. money can indeed buy goods and services, and you should to not set yourself up for exploitation value goods and services at most at sticker price.

e: and just to be clear your post is not literally meant to say "money is a poor indicator of wealth, healthy meal deliveries from Freshly Inc. will save you the most precious resource, time"?

Cybernetic Vermin fucked around with this message at 14:27 on Jan 21, 2022

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

tk posted:

I’d love to see the perks evaluation spreadsheet you made last time you considered changing positions.

is this meant to suggest that your approach is to see what the compensation package makes you feel like when ignoring all numbers, and that this is the advisable way to do things?

for the record i have typically gone with multiplying everything not salary or time off by zero, but that's the luxury of getting paid enough that i don't want to expect that ill choose the company perks over choosing something myself (e.g. current place pays for a gym membership, which on paper has some value, but the gym is located across town so i pay for one near my house instead). a bit extreme, but applying some number is good.

Cybernetic Vermin fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Jan 21, 2022

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

PIZZA.BAT posted:

my point is that people are discounting the cognitive load of making the choice between cooking for yourself vs. just having a service that covers it for you. yes you can assign a dollar value to how much that delivery service is worth BUT then you're the one who has to make that call and decide which they want to go with

therefore if someone is making more than enough money to cover all their bases and they have time-saving perks stacked on top of it AND they are genuinely content with the job- it's really not a big head scratcher as to why they'd be complacent

the super cushy devil you know vs the one you don't and all that

sure, but in any evaluation, and you should judge compensation with some care now and then, you really should suppress these biases and be prepared to pay for the thing you love. and in fact with this threads defense of this perk, let me remind everyone that if you think it'd be nice and save your important time, just buy this (or any other) service.

it is not like people are living in company towns (well, for the most part), but it is bad both for labor broadly and individuals narrowly to embrace the company gaming your biases.

also separate is just enjoying your job, which is weird, but allowed.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

i think when the argument gets to be that the stresses of work and reality makes it important for someone to have their job take some of the decisions out of feeding oneself we have rather moved on from whether this kind of perk is good. obviously great to make sure people get food without too much anguish, but kind of downstream from the issue of the stresses overall.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

Achmed Jones posted:

i think i spy some utilitarians itt

from my viewpoint this is a labor issue, management loves nothing more than making wages incomparable, whether it is options, promises about the future, claims about culture and loyalty, or perks. it sticks in my craw when people explicitly reject comparing compensation (those available to oneself here, but also to others), and more so when they freely let value that they create accumulate in the pockets of the wealthy.

at some point everyone gets to decide what is important to them of course, but from my perspective the baseline advice should always be to compare, consider and squeeze the system for all it can give you, with the assumption being that the value will be better used by you and that it will cause better circumstances for those around you. even better if you can do it in collaboration with others. in many systems it doesn't matter too much, but e.g. where i work there is absolutely a curve to be pushed around, and i think even where it is not very obvious it is still a good thing to try.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

Xarn posted:

I disagree. You should value it at what it costs you to get the same thing-or-equivalent, even if your potential employer could get it for half the price because they are negotiating for 10k employees at once, because the fact that your employer can get it for half the price doesn't change your price.

so i should credit my employer at full cost for the gym membership i don't use (since i use a different more convenient gym)?

i *also* think that you should take into account what these things actually cost the employer (about 25% of the "normal" price i believe), what with obfuscating compensation, post above somewhere. the point of saying *at most*, however, is that it is kind of rare to be 100% sure you would and will always otherwise buy the exact same thing yourself.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

another reason to eye perks with suspicion is how normative they can be. e.g. company giving things relevant primarily to young white single techbros. we've not talked too much about anything *clearly* falling in that category, but even e.g. free food will often not be set up in a way that works for families, then amounting to stealthily paying some people less (possibly intentionally discriminating).

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

carry on then posted:

this one got the hiring company to pass on the candidate so it doesn't matter :rip:

yeah, i think this kind of effective collusion is the way non-competes are almost always expected to "work".

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply