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Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


forgot we had a jobseeking thread

my job is less and less attractive as time goes on and i wish for a change, with the remote dream of leaving las vegas (i say dream because i'm terrified of uprooting)

it's been a long time, is handing my resume to a recruiter a thing to do? or do i just listlessly apply at whatever local companies have an opening that i might be able to squeeze my programmer chops into, until either hell freezes or i give up?

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Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


Kilometres Davis posted:

Applying to postings and using recruiters can work but it loving sucks.

Try contacting ex-coworkers you had a good relationship with and see if they can put you in touch with anyone decent that's hiring.

It's a good idea to get along and catch up with the more capable contractors that come into your org for <6 months because they bounce around enough to know who needs people and also which places are garbage fires.

Our brains are hosed and referrals are valued way more highly than they should be.

leaves me nicely in the lurch because I know no one

literally

here and work and direct family are, quite literally, the only people I interact with

but I also cannot stay with current job forever. so.

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


Fiedler posted:

Apply to one of the tech giants as they'll pay relocation.

funny, i never thought to look for openings at the likes of microsoft or google or whoever, thanks for the reminder :v:

not sure about google though, i've Heard Things about their work hours and culture, but hey, let he who lives in a glass house shut the gently caress up and all

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


Kilometres Davis posted:

After your interview, before leaving the building, always take a poo poo.

I have more tolerance for a messy codebase than a messy bathroom. YMMV

first read this as a traditional shitpost, but on reflection that's legit good advice :cheers:

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


i'm still incredibly upset about my rejection yesterday

my phone interview question was, given a list of integers, return a list of those integers whose negatives are also present in the list (3 & -3, etc)

my first solution--and i said so on the phone--was the naive two-loop n2 way, we talked for a while about why i did that and what i'd do to improve it, talked about his job, hung up

rejection 2 days later

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


ten years in programming and i cant do better tthan that? god i'm a loving dingdong

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


probably sort by magnitude and check adjacent nodes, idk

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


i mean yeah that's a perfectly sensible answer too--and the very first thing i said was 'if I had my full IDE and stuff I'd think for a minute and probably LINQ statement this sort of thing because how am I supposed to know if this is even a performance pinch point or not'

but, well, guess that's not good enough anymore

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


Xarn posted:

Literally use a hash set and walk the input once. :shrug:

this is what's loving frustrating me and still leaving me visibly upset today

i have no loving idea what the problem was

was the problem my usual programming approach, which is to make something that works asap (without making fundamental errors like bad organization ofc) then make it performant if necessary?

was it that my first solution was the naive one rather than a hash set or a linq statement?

did i not ask enough questions about initial requirements? did i not spot a trick in the problem statement and it was secretly a test of my critical analysis skills?

did i just sound like a complete oval office, somehow???

i have no idea and i'm pissed off because what do i improve?

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


qhat posted:

The Microsoft was the red flag. Hth

it was on coderpad, i had my choice of language and the interviewer expressed no preference

also said interviewer is apparently a smart person because he's one of my referrer's contacts (and said referrer indicates said interviewer is a smart dude) so the usual excuses of 'gently caress the other guy anyway' don't work

(e) and finally the lack of feedback is apparently company policy

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


i mean the thing is that's what i did, mononcqc, right up to saying 'i guess for large inputs it'd be better to sort magnitude then check adjacency'

i even said aloud 'ok this is kind of a crappy naive solution but it'll work fine on the quick for short inputs' or something very to that effect

so i don't know. was i just totally outclassed by my competition, did i speak badly, um and ah too much, did i show too little confidence, hosed if i know, and even with a massive amount of weed i seem to be unable to fuckin let it go :smith:

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


it was a wide interview across four potential positions i had applied for, not even just one visible/competitive position, and i still managed to blow it before i even met anyone face to face

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


GenJoe posted:

i would probably red-flag a candidate if their answer to "how can you make this algorithm better?" is "I need an IDE so I can do linq statements." they were just looking for you to spitball a few basic CS solutions (hash-sets, sorting) and were seeing if you could talk competently about how they would impact the time/space requirements of the algorithm

this question was also simple enough that you probably should have started right away with one of the better solutions (but let them know that if the actual problem space is trivial then you would consider just looping twice because that's easy to understand and hard to introduce bugs with). the "start with easy solution, iterate on a more advanced algorithm once you get something down" approach is a good approach when you aren't exactly sure from the start what a better algorithm would be, but I would expect an intermediate candidate to know right away what a few of the o(nlogn) (or n + n space) solutions to this problem are

fair enough. i don't like that at all because it runs completely counter to what 10 years employment have taught me*, but fair enough. i'll re-assess how little i actually know after all this time i guess

*that being that optimization questions are always so domain specific that instead code should isolated in a way that can be optimized later, when it becomes necessary (which is just good writing practice anyway); that first-time code should be absolutely clear to the lowest common denominator of coder, where possible; and that often optimization can come down less to complexity analysis and more to guess-and-check in the loving profiler. i believe i said as much during the interview but i don't remember anymore

Ciaphas fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Sep 13, 2018

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


GenJoe posted:

you're not wrong on that at all, but the point of a CS algorithm question is for you to demonstrate competency with basic areas of CS, like data structures and time/space requirements. It's not a deep dive into software engineering best practices like you're turning it into. Just take the whiteboard question at face value and demonstrate that you understand how to solve it.

still definitely bring up those points about optimization while you're going through the problem, though. it will tell them that you understand how things actually work on the software engineering side, and depending on how they react it'll also give you a feel if they're the kind of developers who have to optimize /everything/ (this isn't uncommon), in which case you've gotten some useful information and can walk away

in that case, yeah, fair enough again, i got the wrong context on things. guess proving i know what i'm doing well enough to iteratively talk things out isn't what they're looking for at that point.

maybe next time, however many bloody months away that'll be.

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


Bloody posted:

my 2 hours with triplebyte turned into talks with like 5 companies and on-sites with 2 before the interviewing i was doing for my current job won out. they did good work to get me opportunities that matched up well w/ my skillset

tbf now i wish i had thought to go looking for something like this while i had so much free time

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


I got a thing to go to tonight, I'm just gonna quote the intro part of the email:

quote:

Thank you for your interest and applying to roles at Aristocrat! We are reaching out to you since we kept your profile on file, as promised. We would like to connect live with you at our hiring event on Wednesday, September 19th from 4:00 pm - 7:00pm. This Hiring Event is deemed as a casual conversation with our Leaders to learn more about current and future opportunities, so please come as you are. This event is in conjunction with Boyd so you may find opportunities within either organization now that we are partners in the industry! Please reply back to me directly if you are able to come to meet the team.

The roles we are hiring for this event:
And then they go into the roles they're hiring rn, one of which I'm an almost-fit for (close enough to warrant applying in the first place, anyway)

So question since I've never even heard of a "hiring event" (it's at a meeting room in a local hotel, the Gold Coast): is this probably something worth going to? I have an easy excuse to get out with if i'd just be wasting my time

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


Rex-Goliath posted:

sounds like worst case scenario they have free drinks and snacks

kinda my reckon as well but it's a fantastically lovely drive

probably a moot point, might not get done with work in time to go see anyone anyway, but we'll see

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


the idea of pair programming being A Thing spooks the poo poo out of me as i go to interviews because oh my loving stars and daughters i'm an anxious socially dead boy

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


DELETE CASCADE posted:

pair programming is a good thing to do for like 2 hours once a month

i mean yeah i don't mind at all sitting with a coworker for an hour or two to hash out something, but not as a regular thing

i'd simply run out of gas, it takes constant sustained effort for me to be sociable and i wish i was exaggerating

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


JawnV6 posted:

why are y'all asking for feedback

what's the best case result from that

i was gonna answer "to have a better idea what to improve/focus on for the next interview" but then i thought about that answer for a bit

there is no point, huh. jeez. :smith:

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


meh, two more "sorry-not-sorry"s from companies i had an inside referral at, and now i'm out of potential employers with refs

haven't even heard so much as a callback from anyone i've applied for on my own

hunt has barely even started and i'm already feeling despondent :smith:

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


Lord Stimperor posted:

Tried out any recruiters? Few friends of mine found their jobs that way and are very happy. Has to be a decent one though that does face to face interviews to determine what you need.

not yet, idk what makes a reputable recruiter vs one who's just going to add to my ever growing list of reasons to take a hammer to first my phone, then my head

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


qhat posted:

Your resume is highly likely in need of review if you're literally not getting any callbacks. I see bad resumes all the time and if I'm not hooked within 30 seconds, sometimes less if it's particularly lovely, then it's already a no.

That or you're not applying to enough places.

probably both but i'll be damned if i can do much to fix the former

i've only had the one job and i talk about what i do and how slick i am as hard as i can without being a loving prat, but i'm limited by classification (e: and quite frankly devastatingly low sense of self-worth)

[side note: $CURRENT_EMPLOYER insists we're only allowed to write resumes on work network, print them, and submit them to security for review before you can take the printed copy home to retype. get bent, asswipes]

Ciaphas fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Oct 3, 2018

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


if i posted a de-doxxed (censored? whatever) version of my resume later, would anyone here care to read it and tell me why i'm such a fuckup so far or is that really kind of a professional service

never worked that out

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


anyone who wanted to hurt me could probably figure out who and where i am without any effort at this point

probably true for 90% of posters itt

that said, point taken, nevermind, i'll go without

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


raminasi posted:

every good third-party recruiter will volunteer the company they're trying to place for and will only apply you for positions you're qualified for (this last one seems obvious but plenty of recruiters are, in fact, that bad)

how do i know which ones 'will' do that without taking a chance on one, is my question

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


EVGA Longoria posted:

What are you afraid of happening with a bad recruiter? What's the scenario where you find out a recruiter is bad that is preventing you from even trying?

If they gently caress up, you can tell them you're done, or block the number and ghost them. Don't sign anything, that's a scam.

i guess if that's all i need to know, then... nothing! :shrug: I'll check around.

Speaking of checking around, fair enough, here, feel free to make fun of my resume (or give feedback)

(e) though i'll say in advance I have no idea why it's scrunched up to the top like that in the goog view, the first page is much more fully spaced out in libre

or why the pagination is wrong (or rather why i put in pagination for a 2pg doc in the first place lmao)

Ciaphas fucked around with this message at 04:53 on Oct 4, 2018

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


oops. yep i can see that. i came at that line from the 'go getter addaptable to adversity like tight customer schedules or the whole no internet at desk thing but uh, drat :sigh:

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


thanks for all the feedback it frankly sounds like a rewrite is in order so Iíll sit down and have a second go this weekend

itís kind of hard to mix in details without risking crossing the classification line (despite hating helljob I do take that seriously) but Iíll work on adding some pizazz

yíall mentioned impact of my work though and that is something Iíve never thought about, mostly because I did it because thatís what needed to be done for the mission to succeed, as it were? touting that as something incredibly special never felt right, which is why I didnít. (not really arguing, just telling my view)

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


qhat posted:

That's because you currently work there. It's special to be someone who consistently does not blow projects to hell and understands the impact of the work they do.

fair point

i'm still going to have difficulties teasing out a useful way to state my impact without running afoul of the law though, i'm sorry i keep harping on that but :shrug:

Bloody posted:

I will never stop stanning for Triplebyte they got me many interviews and now do more than literally just San Francisco so if you want a recruiter give them a shot it might suck rear end or it might be really good

thanks, i'll open a tab. lmk if you want me to put in some referral info or anything, i have to redo the resume this weekend first so it'll be a bit

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


oooookay, as promised i just finished spending a few hours on resume and i think it's a lot better but i could use feedback on a couple things

- i have no idea how to "jazz" it up further or what, my sense of style has abandoned me. i wonder if a bit of blue on key phrases would be good or something?
- That second page is loving dire, should I just delete it or just trim down to one page (what should i wipe out in this case)
- other feedback?

there were a couple more things i wanted to slip in but couldn't really justify their presence, namely that i've got instincts like whoa for memory problems and debugging in general, but i guess i can bring those up at interviews instead

Ciaphas fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Oct 7, 2018

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


qhat posted:

You've wasted a lot of white space at the top on your address. Shove it on to one line, or better yet, remove it entirely. They only really care about your email and phone number. It looks like you could definitely get this cleanly onto one page, rather than one and a quarter awkward pages.

i was kinda wondering about that but hemmed toward tradition. But yeah with a couple extra lines and some language fuckery I should be able to get it down to 1

thanks for the feedback again y'all, i'll take another swing at it later today i reckon and send it to triplebyte etc before tomorrow

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


i got down to one page with better language (i think...) and just striking my dumb first job since it's nothing really relevant except as a look-at-me, and figured i'd ask for one last bit of feedback

also i did a draw :3:

(feel like there's more fiddling with spacing i can do and the like but i'm kinda shrugging at this point)

Ciaphas fucked around with this message at 02:17 on Oct 8, 2018

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


i wasn't sure about that either so I'll probably just steal qhat's font choices if I'm honest

not shallow at all, if it bugs the eye that's all the more incentive to pass it over

sorry/thanks qhat? :v:

Ciaphas fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Oct 8, 2018

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


for some reason at 2am the whim took me to go ahead and do the triplebyte signup and send my fixed up resume out, programming quiz included. said i did 'exceptionally well' despite a couple best guesses and four outright idk's out of 35

guess i'm talking to someone on hangouts this afternoon to see if they like me or not and want to send me on somewhere

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


Had that triplebyte phone interview

Not sure I did great, I think I talked the talk ok but when it came to walking the walk I barely got halfway through both the new code (tic tac toe) and maintenance (buggy web scraper) timed tests :\

Guess we'll see in 48hrs but all that newfound confidence gonna leak like a sieve if this falls flat :ohdear:

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


Kevin Mitnick P.E. posted:

this i can understand. a way around the federal requirement that all exempt employees receive the same benefits

i don't get unlimited pto (12hrs accrued/month) and I get 0 sick leave as an overtime-exempt salaried employee

When I'm out of PTO and work less than 40 hours a week I either have to make it up the next week if its the first week of the pay period (2 weeks), or forfeit it on the leave form as LWOP (Leave Without Pay)

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


between those, taking $1600 of medical benefits away from us over the last summer, cutting our retirement match by a quarter, my anemic raises and the Internet Free Zone nature of the workplace I'm still considering taking $10k cash out of retirement and just loving quitting until YOTJ happens on its own, even if it means forfeiture of unemployment and insurance for a while

being here makes me loving cross and mentally upset as we know by now

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


(by the way I work for a contractor that works for the air force so the feds are drat well aware I'm not getting the spirit of the FLSA benefits--they just unsurprisingly don't care)

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Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


prisoner of waffles posted:

don't. don't?

try to find a way to continue being employed without going nuts. having a job sends a signal about you to potential employers. you want them to get that signal. you don't want them to get the other signal.

yeah I just need to stop thinking about it, reflection is what really gets me upset I think

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