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Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice
i was going through The Questions and i made a few personal additions i plan on asking next go-round, feedback welcome!

- when was the last time you missed a meal with your family or a personal event because you were stuck at work?
Translation: variation on the “do people have good work/life balance at your company” type question.

- what are some of the tools (software, hardware) you have been provided with that help you do your job?
Translation: oblique way of asking “are you provided with the best tools to do your job?”

- do you fix bugs before you write new code? How do you decide what a bug is?
Translation: do you take software quality seriously, or do you just try to push as much crap out the door as possible?

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Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice

Rex-Goliath posted:

the last two are pretty good idk if i’d phrase the first one like that

yeah i need a more oblique and less aggressive way to ask that

e: aggressive is the wrong word but i think you get my point

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice
how about "when was the last time you had to work overtime?"

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice

Ploft-shell crab posted:

re: salary negotiation

my idiot hell fucker external recruiter has apparently been relaying every single internal thought I've mentioned about the two places i'm receiving offers from to those places themselves. it's wonderful to hear the place you're trying to sell yourself to say to you "so we heard you thought our tech stack was a little old". one place was waiting on the other to make an offer and he relayed that information to the other, causing them to delay + weaken *their* offer. what a loving genius (i am for talking to an external recruiter)!

never use an external recruiter!!!

lmfao can his rear end immediately if you don't take either of these jobs

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice
Roughly half of my jobs were via referrals and the interviews were either skipped or a formality.

MononcQc posted:

In some cases you might even be able to bypass interview processes altogether because someone vouched for you very hard (though that might be a red flag, you want to interview them as well).

Agreed, if there is no formal interview you still want to ask your questions about the company before accepting any offers!

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice
I'm extremely bad at networking too :(

In addition to making it hard to job hunt it makes it hard to hire more people.

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice
that's a good question, how much of a gap do y'all consider "safe"?

i've seriously debated taking 6 months off work to travel but it's also something i worry about a bit

i have a friend that did it a few times and didn't seem to hurt his career vOv

i guess i could keep my consulting business active during that time and do a bit of freelance work, so i actually wouldn't have a gap...

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice
thanks, will do, assuming i can tear myself away from the exciting world of overpaid computer touching

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice

qhat posted:

I took 9 months off to do just that and I struggled to get in the front door at a lot of places when I came back. Just be prepared for a prolonged job hunt, many HR and recruiter will assume you are broken goods with a large gap, but it's okay because at the end of the day you're not and you only need to succeed at one interview to be able to go to work everyday.

yeah i definitely wasn't thinking 9 months, i was thinking more like 2 months off and then start looking.

but i'm changing my mind.

i'm about to hit my peak earning years so time to really put in the hours

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice

pointsofdata posted:

They have to unless I go swear at a customer or something, it's part of my contract.

My concern is more that time to complete job search plus 3 more months is a long time but I also don't want to give my notice then find that getting a new job is way harder than expected. I've started already and it's not as fast as last time.

i was gonna say no

but

you're required to give 3 months notice before you leave?

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice
i mean i sorta gave 6 months notice, as in i quit because they refused to budge on a raise i wanted

so my employer asked if i'd take a 6 month contract at rates far above what my desired raise is

vOv

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice

Kevin Mitnick P.E. posted:

i like salad. according to the internet dietary vitamin k has no toxicity at any dose so i figure im good

get the caesar, it comes with a free colon cleansing treatment

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice

TheFluff posted:

one to three months notice is a very common contract clause in countries other than the us, yes. goes both ways tho (for layoffs - getting fired isn't really a thing that happens)

crazy

i'm in canada and i don't have to (legally) give any notice at all (convention is 2 weeks though)

employer has to give me notice though, depending on how long i've been a full-time employee

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice
Anyone got some good resume templates for developers?

re: summaries

i have a "Highlights" section up front.

as someone that reads a lot of resumes during hiring i kinda like them, if their summary sucks i bin the resume.

i also put in soft-skills there, which is something i look for with senior/lead positions and rarely comes out in the work experience section

then again maybe i like summaries because i get so many resumes that are more than 2 pages (and i NEVER read past page 2)

i guess a case could be made that you're repeating your cover letter with one, but do people even do cover letters anymore? the resumes that get passed to me for review never have them

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice
opinion check - as a developer, should you list skills you haven't used in years? how about skills you haven't used professionally?

my current rule of thumb is list things i've done professionally from most to least experienced and leave off anything i never want to do again or haven't touched in 10 or more years

i wonder if i'm shooting myself in the foot a bit by leaving off things i've learned and messed around with but never used at work

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice

ADINSX posted:

I don't have a skills section, I prefer to list the technologies used at various projects in bullet points under my work experience.

that's something i'm struggling with - including technology used within professional experience blurbs vs having a skills summary up top. i'm doing both now, partly because when i scan a resume i love having that summary up top but it is nice having it in context as well. this gets repetitive though

i've given up trying to fit into one page, i'm pushing 20 years experience now so i think two pages is reasonable as long as i make the first half of the first page really pop

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice

ADINSX posted:

Yeah I do two pages as well, with the knowledge that the second page will likely not be read (its just older jobs and my education/awards section).

Its interesting that you scan the skills section, I usually don't bother with that, mostly because people stuff insane amounts of crap in there so they get keyword matches I guess? Its pretty low signal to noise for me

I typically read the blurbs about their last few jobs, mostly as jumping off points to talk about in the interview. I'm not super picky about specific skills, I'm more interested if someone can clearly explain what they did and prove to me they had a critical role (if that's what they're claiming, which should probably be the case if its on your resume)

scan is the operative word, i don't spend a lot of time in there. i'm more interested in what they put at the top of the heap

i also read their experience section obviously

for resumes that don't have skill section or put it near the bottom i won't see it and skip straight to the experience blurbs

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

you want a double match between the body text and the "skills" section at the bottom, in order for the "applicant management system" to flag you

this is my understanding as well

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice
i've had interviews where it was just "we just want to put a face to the name, you've already got the job" and there was still pressure, if only because i still had to judge the company i was potentially joining

(and i didn't do so hot there, tbh)

admittedly a different kind of pressure, but still valid, as anyone that's joined a poo poo company can tell you

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice

Feisty-Cadaver posted:

all of your questions should be geared towards answering the question:

Does this help inform me that this person will be successful in this role?

Is knowing that 8 bits are in a byte critical to that job? Good question. Otherwise: bad question and a waste time for the both of you.

this

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice

Ciaphas posted:

it's statements like this that remind me i'm not as much of an impostor as i think

poo poo, maybe i should interview a candidate one of these days, give me a fresh perspective on my own level if nothing else

well all have our blind spots my dude.

just keep interviewing, keep studying, and you'll get a new job eventually

e: also yeah i'm pretty convinced that having interviewed devs for the last 8 years or so has made being interviewed a lot easier. easy for me to say since i haven't been interviewed in 3+ years but still....

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice

Pollyanna posted:

graphs!!!! god I loving love graphs!!!!! they are everything in the world!!! everything is a graph!! crush them up and snort them and do a million knight moves theory problems in 15 minutes!!! universal constant!!!!!!! hail graphs!!!!!!!! shove a graph up my butt!!!!! depth first depth first depth first depth first depth first depth first depth first depth first depth first a* depth first


Pollyanna posted:

nobody loving uses or gives a poo poo about graphs, graphs are a solved problem. no one loving cares. stop asking graph theory questions. god drat.

b& for mod sass

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice

Captain Foo posted:

The Bloody Maneuver?

Instead of sending your resignation to your boss and HR, you accidentally send them a copy of your signed offer letter

lol, amazing

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice
when i'm doing leetcode type stuff i write my code out as a comment first, write a quick little test harness to verify expected inputs+outputs, and then start writing the function to be invoked

seems like this might be the way to approach that sort of interview? speaking hypothetically as i haven't done one myself.

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice

Penisface posted:

i just wonder how long they think their machine keeps ticking along before it becomes obvious that man-butt-hours are a really bad measure of productivity

lol isn't their economy basically flatline? i think they already know but haven't figured out what they can do differently

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice
maybe they're doing this because you're leaving?

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice

Penisface posted:

i did not ask but i am pretty sure that the number rhymes with hero :)


Penisface posted:

basically not worth it to pick this hill to die on?

lol just say no, wtf is wrong with you

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

a background check would be 100% useless if it could be evaded by changing your name, and 99% useless if it could be evaded by changing your sex

perhaps obviously no one involved has any incentive whatsoever to care about your privacy

how the gently caress do you get "evaded" from what jbt posted?

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice

raminasi posted:

my reading was that jbt's objection was to the background check company revealing her deadname to the hiring company, not knowing it themselves

exactly

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice

Chalks posted:

background checks are literally the act of looking at who you were in the past

jfc

verification of employment, educational, and criminal history does not require sharing prior religion, gender, political affiliations, or pretty much anything that can lead to discrimination

i get if you're walking into a NATIONAL SECURITY situation where blackmail is a possibility but we are absolutely not talking about that here

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice
while we're at it, for ordinary jobs credit checks shouldn't be allowed either :colbert:

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice

Chalks posted:

there's a pretty big terminology blur here when it comes to background checks vs checking references and i'm just kinda riding the wave

there is no blur at all, you're the only one who doesn't seem to understand what a background check is. nobody said anything about reference checks.

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice
i'm not even trying to be a dick, i'm gonna lay it out: a reference check is often, but not always, part of a background check

other things that may be part of a background check:
* employment history
* financial/credit information
* academic records
* military records
* criminal records
* arrest records
* sex offender status
* citizenship/immigration status
* driving records
* medical records
* character reference checks

and probably more i am forgetting

not all of these can be legally requested for all types of jobs, but it all falls under the umbrella of "background checks"

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice

Chalks posted:

well, i did when i said i considered checking someone's qualifications to be a reference check rather than a background check, in response to someone talking about those things, but who's counting or indeed reading

ok then, everyone but you, the person that said we were wrong because you didn't understand what background checks are

feel better?

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice

Mao Zedong Thot posted:

background checks are pretty dumb

which isnt suprising because interviewing and recruiting is pretty dumb

agreedo

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice

Chalks posted:

yeah, i think i'm clearer on this now. it's a US/UK confusion thing, where in the UK all of that is illegal unless you're mandated by law to do a criminal records check.

here, if you were an employer trying to find out about someone's qualifications it would be because those qualifications were on their CV and you were doing a reference check so when someone talked about the employer doing it without knowing the name of the person they were checking i was confused.

the whole idea of these background check companies in the US sounds pretty horrible and i'm sorry for anyone who has to deal with this level of bullshit when getting a job

it's hella hosed up and i'm honestly surprised the uk hasn't managed to make it a thing

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice

Penisface posted:

thanks for the advice, i will ask them about this definitely and let’s see how it goes

the reason i am reluctant to pick a fight on this thing is that i am not an expert on Japanese law and there may be something in there which will side with the employer

in your regular professional business none of this stuff would be a surprise, but unfortunately my current job is a clown shoes operation run by dunning kruger phds who simply do not know anything about professional courtesy and everything that goes with it. japanese work culture is basically “make boss feel good” so they have had years to simmer in their own poo poo and the possibility that they may be doing things wrong is just inconceivable

so when i say i refuse the non compete i honestly believe they may get a lawyer or something and instead of just quitting a lovely job i have to spend my time money and energy dealing with this poo poo on and on and on

and just as a remark it’s not even a 100% Japanese company as 2/3 of the founders are foreign and so is half the workforce. i find myself often thinking that it can’t be real and i must be explaining it wrong

oh yeah, i forgot where you are

idk japanese law at all but even if they can somehow compel you to sign... this seems like something you'd ask in a "foreigners in japan" type forum?

i mean i'm sure we have our fair share of weeaboos here but we're going to have a pretty heavy western culture and law knowledge bias here

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

people itt talking about what a background check firm “needs” to provide fundamentally don’t get it

the employer is the paying customer, not the applicant. the background check people will provide anything and everything asked for, including your past aliases. your privacy is irrelevant and they don’t care how uncomfortable it is — you ain’t the one paying the bill.

most companies really only care about salary history and any relevant crimes (e.g. wire fraud, hacking charges, embezzlement) but they will dig up everything in that process

in other countries this poo poo is handled by government bureaus, to avoid the privacy nightmare, but this is the USA, so instead every employer rummages through your private life for fun



p.s. my last two (2) jobs, their background check firms demanded my freaking tax returns. that is public info in many countries but sensitive as hell in the u.s.

boy howdy was I pissed about it, but what was I gonna do? walk, after accepting an offer and resigning my prior job?

they have got you by the short and curlies and they know it

people aren't complaining because they think it's illegal, they are complaining because it SHOULD be illegal

hth

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice

Mahatma Goonsay posted:

i managed to negotiate myself a signing bonus. thanks everybody!

nice

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice
idk if i mentioned it in this thread but earlier this year we passed on someone because he wouldn't give us salary expectations. like, outright refused. i guess he read everyone's favourite salary negotiation article.

he would have been better off just firing off a nice high number tbh, at least then we would have countered with something

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Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice
funny because my boss assumed the guy wasn't that interested in us if he wouldn't give us a number and we had 6 other interviews that day so vOv

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