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Eox
Jun 20, 2010

by Fluffdaddy
I know this isn't a question with a sane answer but why does the turkish government hate kurds so much? Is it land, an ancient feud with a dumbshit reason or something of the sort?

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Homeless Friend
Jul 16, 2007

the great deceiver posted:

hts = huge taco shits

read this as huge taco tits and was very pleased

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

Brother Friendship posted:

it can be both and its only theoretical at the moment but increasingly likely to occur

A plan to move in 30,000 US troops and construct a border fence through the middle of Syria isn't theoretical.


Eox posted:

I know this isn't a question with a sane answer but why does the turkish government hate kurds so much? Is it land, an ancient feud with a dumbshit reason or something of the sort?

The Turkish government hatess Kurds because they refuse to be Turks, which was a big problem for them because most other Anatolian minorities were ethnically cleansed by Ataturk to make a Turkish nation-state. The Anatolian Greeks are all gone because they either adopted Turkish names and started speaking Turkish or they fled to Greece, but the Kurds are concentrated enough to resist forced assimilation. The Turkicization campaign was so thorough, that when France forked over a big chunk of Syrian coastline as a gift to keep Turkey from joining the Axis, they went in and renamed every Arab town and street with Turkish names.

HorrificExistence
Jun 25, 2017

by Athanatos

Eox posted:

I know this isn't a question with a sane answer but why does the turkish government hate kurds so much? Is it land, an ancient feud with a dumbshit reason or something of the sort?

they only hate syrian and turkish. Iraqi kurds are puppets on the americans and trained by the turks.

HorrificExistence
Jun 25, 2017

by Athanatos

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

The Turkish government hatess Kurds because they refuse to be Turks, which was a big problem for them because most other Anatolian minorities were ethnically cleansed by Ataturk to make a Turkish nation-state. The Anatolian Greeks are all gone because they either adopted Turkish names and started speaking Turkish or they fled to Greece, but the Kurds are concentrated enough to resist forced assimilation. The Turkicization campaign was so thorough, that when France forked over a big chunk of Syrian coastline as a gift to keep Turkey from joining the Axis, they went in and renamed every Arab town and street with Turkish names.

Turkey and greece are two especially fictional nations, created by the french and british to literal larp as classical kings.

Brother Friendship
Jul 12, 2013

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

A plan to move in 30,000 US troops and construct a border fence through the middle of Syria isn't theoretical.

oh well

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

https://www.buzzfeed.com/johnhudson/tillerson-calls-for-indefinite-us-military-presence-in?utm_term=.wxVaQV3WJ8#.sgW28zy97A

quote:

Secretary of State Rex Tillerson unveiled an ambitious US strategy for ousting Syrian President Bashar al Assad on Wednesday that relies on an indefinite US military presence in the country, an insurrection within the Assad regime and a groundswell of support from the beleaguered Syrian people.

The speech represents the most comprehensive case Tillerson has ever made for a lasting US military presence in the war-torn country and marks a departure from language drafted between the US and Russian officials in Vietnam in November...

A central pillar to Tillerson’s plan, delivered in a speech at Stanford University, is a UN-supervised election that Tillerson predicted would result in new leadership.

“The United States believes that free and transparent elections … will result in the permanent departure of Assad and his family from power,” said Tillerson.

“Assad’s regime is corrupt, and his methods of governance and economic development have increasingly excluded certain ethnic and religious groups,” said Tillerson. “Such oppression cannot persist forever.”

A November joint-statement between Trump and Vladimir Putin called for “UN-monitored” elections. But Tillerson’s speech calls for “UN-supervised” elections, a process that is more invasive and includes additional requirements such as a voting populace that isn’t intimidated, fearful of arrest and has access to media.

One person familiar with the decision told BuzzFeed News the stronger language could create the conditions for dismantling Assad’s rule. The decision to approve a lasting US military presence in Syria was approved by Trump at a National Security Council meeting on Dec. 21...

“We understand that some Americans are skeptical of continued involvement in Syria and question the benefits of maintaining a presence in such a troubled country,” Tillerson said. “However, it is vital for the United States to remain engaged in Syria.”

Tillerson also linked America's troop presence to the need to curb Assad's hold on power. "A total withdrawal of American personnel at this time would restore Assad and continue his brutal treatment of his own people," he said.

Notably, Tillerson's plan for eventual regime change relies on several assumptions that are far from certain.

For instance, Tillerson says that “our expectation is that the desire for a return to normal life … will help rally the Syrian people and individuals within the regime to compel Assad to step down.”

Fallen Hamprince
Nov 12, 2016

Eox posted:

I know this isn't a question with a sane answer but why does the turkish government hate kurds so much? Is it land, an ancient feud with a dumbshit reason or something of the sort?

Turkey used to have a huge empire that got broken up after WWI, the last chunk of non-Turkish majority territory left is Turkish Kurdistan in the south-eastern corner of the country. The Kurds want out, the Turks don't want to let them leave.

Scrub-Niggurath
Nov 27, 2007


Ah yes, the sit back and wait to be greeted as liberators plan

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

If they're relying on there to be an insurrection in the Assad regime, then what do they think the last 5 years were?

paul_soccer10
Mar 28, 2016

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Assad would win a free election

HorrificExistence
Jun 25, 2017

by Athanatos

Fallen Hamprince posted:

Turkey used to have a huge empire that got broken up after WWI, the last chunk of non-Turkish majority territory left is Turkish Kurdistan in the south-eastern corner of the country. The Kurds want out, the Turks don't want to let them leave.

Why do they support Iraqi Kurds?


maybe it has something to do with communism


hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Darkman Fanpage
Jul 4, 2012
https://twitter.com/reutersworld/status/953956572610416641

Darkman Fanpage
Jul 4, 2012

HorrificExistence posted:

Why do they support Iraqi Kurds?


maybe it has something to do with communism


hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

because by supporting iraqi kurds they can simultaneously take away support for turkish kurds and syrian kurds while also loving around in iraqi internal politics.

Frijolero
Jan 24, 2009

by Nyc_Tattoo

:abuela:

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

Darkman Fanpage posted:

because by supporting iraqi kurds they can simultaneously take away support for turkish kurds and syrian kurds while also loving around in iraqi internal politics.

The Turks blockaded Iraqi Kurdistan as soon as Barzani tried to go independent. They "supported" Iraqi Kurds because they were getting cheap oil from Barzani. It was all about bizness

the great deceiver
Sep 23, 2003

why the feds worried bout me clockin on this corner/
when there's politicians out here gettin popped in arizona
k-k-k-k-kurd kurd kurd kurd is the word

Frijolero
Jan 24, 2009

by Nyc_Tattoo
Just another normal day at the war

https://twitter.com/CivilWarMap/status/954387363677040641

the great deceiver
Sep 23, 2003

why the feds worried bout me clockin on this corner/
when there's politicians out here gettin popped in arizona
multiple twitter sources sayin Deso Dogg was killed lol

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

The Turks are preparing an offensive against Afrin Canton, and have already started shelling cities with FSA skirmishing with the YPG along the border.

https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/954483591521689600

https://twitter.com/jenanmoussa/status/954454284380311552

https://twitter.com/jenanmoussa/status/954369594105397249

Getting on the bus in Al Bab, one way ticket to Afrin.

Pener Kropoopkin has issued a correction as of 04:59 on Jan 20, 2018

Ansar Santa
Jul 12, 2012

I got 4 words to say about the middle east: Nuke Ankara, reclaim Constantinople.

Peace

Breakfast All Day
Oct 21, 2004

syriasly?

Fallen Hamprince
Nov 12, 2016

wonder how long it will take for insignia-less, turkish-speaking 'Syrian rebels' wearing turkish uniforms, driving turkish vehicles, and carrying weapons to appear in extremely turkish combat against the ypg

commonly known as "the dirty donbass"

Tokamak
Dec 22, 2004

Turns out that the butthurt turk rambling on about marching into a neighbouring country to murder kurds wasn't joking.

Brother Friendship
Jul 12, 2013

it was supposed to be the us that betray the kurds for geopolitical convenience not russia and assad

who could have seen this coming

Willie Tomg
Feb 2, 2006
the US is still betraying them, its just instead of a shakespearean washing-of-hands its more like even with a couple thousand special forces on the ground the actual leadership is apparently hoping if they cover their eyes for a week the SDF can be consigned to the great big wastebasket of nice ideas that didn't sugar out.

which has to be just a faaaaaaaaaannnnnnntastic state of affairs for the special forces soldiers in question, to effectively be representing State's (utter lack of) local interests

Frijolero
Jan 24, 2009

by Nyc_Tattoo

Brother Friendship posted:

it was supposed to be the us that betray the kurds for geopolitical convenience not russia and assad

who could have seen this coming

:qq:

Brother Friendship
Jul 12, 2013

Willie Tomg posted:

the US is still betraying them, its just instead of a shakespearean washing-of-hands its more like even with a couple thousand special forces on the ground the actual leadership is apparently hoping if they cover their eyes for a week the SDF can be consigned to the great big wastebasket of nice ideas that didn't sugar out.

which has to be just a faaaaaaaaaannnnnnntastic state of affairs for the special forces soldiers in question, to effectively be representing State's (utter lack of) local interests

I genuinely believe that it's up in the air and that the US sticking with the Kurds would be on equally as convenient and cynical as abandoning them. Israel and Saudi Arabia already view Turkey as hostile and it's been years since Erdogan has made a concrete move towards the West as he consistently joins Russia and Iran. I wouldn't say that its even odds but there is an outcome where the US sticks with the East Euphrates project and new battle lines take place in the Middle East.

I wonder what will happen to Manbij. It's the same target it ever was and if a real attack occurs the US would be the power to intercede as opposed to Afrin being caught with the regime since the start.

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

The United States has more to gain from Turkey occupying those territories than the YPG, now that ISIS is basically defeated. Assad has more incentive to defend Afrin since the Turks could basically Turkicize it and there's not much they could do.

https://twitter.com/AylinaKilic/status/954806929129463810

They're pretty much on their own.

Pener Kropoopkin has issued a correction as of 23:22 on Jan 20, 2018

Jose
Jul 24, 2007

Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer
https://twitter.com/AP/status/955004020069892097

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

https://twitter.com/haskologlu/status/955013233995341825

They're calling it "Operation Olive Branch."


https://twitter.com/ZeinakhodrAljaz/status/955006381777661952

:shrug: Maybe it's just FSA.

https://twitter.com/Acemal71/status/955000602639130625

Afrin is only about 40km wide.

Pener Kropoopkin has issued a correction as of 10:59 on Jan 21, 2018

Jose
Jul 24, 2007

Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer
https://twitter.com/GebeilyM/status/954823104102064128

Michael Bayleaf
Jun 4, 2006

Tortured By Flan

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

They're calling it "Operation Olive Branch."

Oh hey that sounds pleasant

Eox
Jun 20, 2010

by Fluffdaddy
they just heard america wanted to move in and decided to clear some room

Frijolero
Jan 24, 2009

by Nyc_Tattoo
https://twitter.com/DefenseUnits/status/955097857610207232

These guys are badass

lollontee
Nov 4, 2014
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!
ist happeninggd:d:D:d:D:D

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013


They don't have as many resources or combat experience as the YPG in Rojava, but they've also had years to prepare for a Turkish attack. So long as the primary thrust is by Salafist FSA flunkies they've got a fighting chance.

Brother Friendship
Jul 12, 2013

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

They don't have as many resources or combat experience as the YPG in Rojava, but they've also had years to prepare for a Turkish attack. So long as the primary thrust is by Salafist FSA flunkies they've got a fighting chance.

without heavy weapons it'll be brutal but its still possible

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

Lastgirl
Sep 7, 1997


Good Morning!
Sunday Morning!

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Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

https://twitter.com/StefanieDekker/status/955128731273777152

https://twitter.com/Conflicts/status/955118353827487745

lmao

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