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ToxicAcne
May 25, 2014


How religious is the avergage Iranian? Growing up, my South Asian parents were always shocked at how secular Iranian Canadians were, but I'm guessing that the Diaspora doesn't completely reflect the average Iranian.

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Zedhe Khoja
Nov 10, 2017

Truth Shines, Comrades!


Depends on where you are, but I'd say fairly religious. In Tehran and the northern green belt they can be pretty lax but everywhere else it's serious business.

Death By The Blues
Oct 30, 2011


ToxicAcne posted:

How religious is the avergage Iranian? Growing up, my South Asian parents were always shocked at how secular Iranian Canadians were, but I'm guessing that the Diaspora doesn't completely reflect the average Iranian.

Most of the diaspora is lax, but they can be religious. Majority of my family is pretty stringent Atheists, while my family in Iran tends to be more religious or not mention their religion at all. I would say they are less religious then Arabs and a large chunk would prefer a secular society. The major issue is age, the population doubled (big baby boom), post revolution, so none of them had a say in the current Islamic Republic. Then they had two large scale protests (2009 and 2018) be horribly depressed, so also can see some nihilism.

Speaking of which is this the thread to discuss the potential civil war in Pakistan and them collapsing into further religious fundamentalism, which ain't great.

Plutonis
Mar 25, 2011


Death By The Blues posted:

Speaking of which is this the thread to discuss the potential civil war in Pakistan and them collapsing into further religious fundamentalism, which ain't great.

Can you post about it? I wasn't aware of this at all.

brotha from anatha
Mar 24, 2021
Probation
Can't post for 14 days!


Plutonis posted:

Can you post about it? I wasn't aware of this at all.

pakistan has been the supporting base of the afghan taliban for a reason; plenty of people believe in the wahhabist ideology, and it has been gaining a whole lot of ground as a reaction to the american invasions

or at least, thats what my afghan comrades have been telling me

ToxicAcne
May 25, 2014


brotha from anatha posted:

pakistan has been the supporting base of the afghan taliban for a reason; plenty of people believe in the wahhabist ideology, and it has been gaining a whole lot of ground as a reaction to the american invasions

or at least, thats what my afghan comrades have been telling me

The current stuff going on right now with the TLP is different. Their base is mostly Barelvi (Sufi Oriented), and most of Pakistan is Barelvi. These guys seem to have a more popular base and they really hate Salfafis. I guess it goes to show that even traditional sunnism can devolve into extremism as well.

Zedhe Khoja
Nov 10, 2017

Truth Shines, Comrades!


and even most of the extremists in that region are the super xenophobic strain of deobandi the brits promoted to gently caress over indian independence. they suck but they're most definitely not wahhabists.

ToxicAcne
May 25, 2014


Zedhe Khoja posted:

and even most of the extremists in that region are the super xenophobic strain of deobandi the brits promoted to gently caress over indian independence. they suck but they're most definitely not wahhabists.

It's not really the case now, but around when Independence was happening, the Deobandis were the ones vehemently against Partition while the Barelvis were for it. It's important to realize that alot of Fundamentalists are pretty Quietist.

Edit: A common conspiracy theory in Pakistan is that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was a British collaborator who founded Ahmadism to gently caress over independence.

Zedhe Khoja
Nov 10, 2017

Truth Shines, Comrades!


I don't actually know where I got the idea deobandis were the pro-partition faction. I think it just emerged from a flawed combination of ideas about who the kind of pro/anti partition factions must have been.

ToxicAcne posted:

Edit: A common theory in Pakistan is gently caress Ahmadism

seriously every Pakistani internet space i've stumbled into is usually wall to wall antiahmadist stuff and they're like 2% of the pop. It's like reading an early 30's german newspaper.

i say swears online
Mar 4, 2005

medio de fonte leporum surgo amariter




Zedhe Khoja posted:

I don't actually know where I got the idea deobandis were the pro-partition faction. I think it just emerged from a flawed combination of ideas about who the kind of pro/anti partition factions must have been.

it's all confusing as hell. for a long time i thought the taliban was an explicitly pashtun organization until i looked at a dang map of control

ToxicAcne
May 25, 2014


Zedhe Khoja posted:

I don't actually know where I got the idea deobandis were the pro-partition faction. I think it just emerged from a flawed combination of ideas about who the kind of pro/anti partition factions must have been.


seriously every Pakistani internet space i've stumbled into is usually wall to wall antiahmadist stuff and they're like 2% of the pop. It's like reading an early 30's german newspaper.

Yeah the Anti Ahmadism stuff is deranged. Especially when you consider that the equivalent of the Nuremberg laws have been in place for decades.

I think the confusion about Deobandis and Barelvis comes from the characterization of Sufi Mysticism as good and Orthodox Islam as bad, which is something I've had to grapple with the past few years. The Anti-Blasphemy killings are always spearheaded by Barelvis, as is much of the Anti Ahmadism

Zedhe Khoja
Nov 10, 2017

Truth Shines, Comrades!


I think I was just connecting the "taliban sect" to partitianism arbitrarily of my own accord. I mostly forget that pakistan is sufi-city unless I'm actively reading about it.

I have seen weird sufi=socialists comments a couple times on the forums, and I don't really get how you make that kind of connection, but there are definitely strange thoughts about sufism going around the internet.

brotha from anatha
Mar 24, 2021
Probation
Can't post for 14 days!


i just believe that cultural cross-pollination occurs without respect for religious borders, especially when it comes to extremist interpretations of cultural heritage as justification for fascist movements. if those bastards over in that neighbourhood are going fasc, im gonna go fasc too!

ToxicAcne
May 25, 2014


Ya Sufism is really interesting but it can easily devolve into really reactionary, culty behaviour.

For what it's worth the Pakistani diaspora is overwhelmingly Deobandi/Salafi which is why I found the secularism of my Iranian friends really interesting. I think Pakistan could use alot more of that kind of thinking.

I have seen some Iranians take it onto a really wierd direction though with the reverence for the Shah, or obsession with Zoroastrianism.

i say swears online
Mar 4, 2005

medio de fonte leporum surgo amariter




ToxicAcne posted:

Ya Sufism is really interesting but it can easily devolve into really reactionary, culty behaviour.

For what it's worth the Pakistani diaspora is overwhelmingly Deobandi/Salafi which is why I found the secularism of my Iranian friends really interesting. I think Pakistan could use alot more of that kind of thinking.

I have seen some Iranians take it onto a really wierd direction though with the reverence for the Shah, or obsession with Zoroastrianism.

that's because a lot of the iranian diaspora went into exile around the revolution, so they're usually either secular or monarchists or both. similar with vietnamese immigrants being largely anticommunist

ToxicAcne
May 25, 2014


Alot of them are leftists too no? For a while the leader of the leftist party in Quebec was Iranian.

i say swears online
Mar 4, 2005

medio de fonte leporum surgo amariter




maybe, but probably less so nowadays and/or recruited by CIA

Death By The Blues
Oct 30, 2011


ToxicAcne posted:

Ya Sufism is really interesting but it can easily devolve into really reactionary, culty behaviour.

For what it's worth the Pakistani diaspora is overwhelmingly Deobandi/Salafi which is why I found the secularism of my Iranian friends really interesting. I think Pakistan could use alot more of that kind of thinking.

I have seen some Iranians take it onto a really wierd direction though with the reverence for the Shah, or obsession with Zoroastrianism.

Iranians generally have a thing for leaders in their literature and movements, hence why a movement like the Arab Spring is kind of trickier to pull off their. They need a figure head to kind of point too, like Mousavi in 2009. The revolution in 79 had actually a bunch of different groups, however, the Ayatollah become the leader of one movement and the rest is history.

PawParole
Nov 16, 2019





yeah the whole “sufis” are “spiritual and not religious” or whatever white people believe about it rn is like the whole Buddhists don’t believe in god shtick, which would not be true if you went to like Myanmar or smthimg.


ToxicAcne posted:

A common conspiracy theory in Pakistan is that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was a British collaborator who founded Ahmadism to gently caress over independence.

don’t the ahmedis also claim that their prophet is after Muhammad but that they’re also Muslims? I can see why a majority Muslim population would view those claims as anathema, and the belief you wrote about would also help cause tension.

PawParole has issued a correction as of 19:42 on Apr 18, 2021

PawParole
Nov 16, 2019





https://mobile.twitter.com/MapEthiopia/status/1383817433996173315

https://mobile.twitter.com/MapEthiopia/status/1383512228985413636

ToxicAcne
May 25, 2014


PawParole posted:

yeah the whole “sufis” are “spiritual and not religious” or whatever white people believe about it rn is like the whole Buddhists don’t believe in god shtick, which would not be true if you went to like Myanmar or smthimg.


don’t the ahmedis also claim that their prophet is after Muhammad but that they’re also Muslims? I can see why a majority Muslim population would view those claims as anathema, and the belief you wrote about would also help cause tension.

That is true, but Pakistani history since Independence has been basically capitulation after capitulation to Islamists. Ironically the Ahmadis were one of the groups most in favour of Partition and Pakistan's first foreign minister was Ahmadi as well. The first real Anti-Ahmadi Laws were put in place by Zulfikar Ali Bhutto the (extremely flawed) social democratic prime minister.

Edit: Also the Muslim League's strongest support came from Bengal... Basically many of the groups who were most in favour of partition were the ones most burned by it.

ToxicAcne has issued a correction as of 20:00 on Apr 18, 2021

PawParole
Nov 16, 2019





every country in the world has become more religiously fundamentalist and right wing since 1970ish. the reagan revolution was worldwide

PawParole
Nov 16, 2019





https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/4/19/ethiopia-declares-state-of-emergency-in-amhara-amid-violence

Ethiopia declare state of emergency in Amhara region after 5 days of ethnic clashes.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ma_h_der/status/1383813250060492808

NAMA Press Release in a nutshell: "NAMA believes that PM Abiy and OPP enabled and are behind the current State-sponsored terrorism

The Amhara regional government wants UN peacekeepers to intervene

PawParole has issued a correction as of 04:16 on Apr 20, 2021

Jose
Jul 24, 2007





lmao

https://twitter.com/YWN/status/1384481805588320259?s=20

OhFunny
Jun 26, 2013

EXTREMELY PISSED AT THE DNC


https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/1384465461274980355?s=19

Ruled Chad for 30 years. His son will govern for now.

Archduke Frantz Fanon
Sep 7, 2004




does this mean hes still immune to prosecution or is he going to explode into a million corruption cases

BrutalistMcDonalds
Oct 4, 2012




Lipstick Apathy

OhFunny posted:

Ruled Chad for 30 years. His son will govern for now.
he died "in clashes with rebels"

Mr. Lobe
Feb 23, 2007

... Dry bones...




Archduke Frantz Fanon posted:

does this mean hes still immune to prosecution or is he going to explode into a million corruption cases

I speak without expertise but I suspect a lot of that corruption is load-bearing for the state at this juncture

Wraith of J.O.I.
Jan 24, 2012

Not a-mew-sing.


https://twitter.com/ASBMilitary/status/1384917404795523078
https://twitter.com/ASBMilitary/status/1384921960455540736

paul_soccer12
Jan 5, 2020



Coolest poo poo I ever saw

genericnick
Dec 26, 2012




Real satisfying sound, I wonder if they added it afterwards.

Plutonis
Mar 25, 2011


What was the last time the US lost a carrier, WW2?

Al-Saqr
Nov 11, 2007

The Islamic Orb Illuminati.


Lol holy poo poo

THS
Sep 15, 2017



the international equivalent of sending someone a videotape of themselves undressing through a back window

BrutalistMcDonalds
Oct 4, 2012




Lipstick Apathy

i haven't seen anyone else reporting that the son was taken out yet but it sounds like a circular firing squad

https://twitter.com/RYP__/status/1384939841092194304

PawParole
Nov 16, 2019






stop sharing these creepshots

PawParole
Nov 16, 2019





PawParole posted:

stop sharing these creepshots

Non consensual pics are never okay to share.

Atrocious Joe
Sep 2, 2011

I'll leave the past in the past, tomorrow's not promised
And today's just an anime titty I guess that's why it's the present







https://twitter.com/RFJ_USA/status/1384492344641265666?s=20
https://twitter.com/KhosroKalbasi/status/1384450357821116417?s=20

MI6 heads served as 'privy councillors' in Oman until at least 2019
https://twitter.com/pmillerinfo/status/1384429988540190721?s=20

paul_soccer12
Jan 5, 2020




i know where he is but im not going to tell them

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Wraith of J.O.I.
Jan 24, 2012

Not a-mew-sing.


hmmm..........

https://twitter.com/falasteen47/status/1385015058527305734
https://twitter.com/Conflicts/status/1385015471267790849

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