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Submarine Sandpaper
May 27, 2007

ASK ME ABOUT HOW I GHOULISHLY CELEBRATE THE DEATH OF CHILDREN TO TEACH THEIR PARENTS "A LESSON"


Steve Yun posted:

It's nice to have a steel mill nearby. I had a 9.5 inch chinese cleaver and now I have a 7.5 inch one. $5 and ten seconds of work!



Should I put wood oil on the handle or not bother

I like bee's wax but no reason not to bother with anything, else you'll have to sand someday. You may want to round that top for rocking as the tempering close to the cut was likely hosed.

Submarine Sandpaper fucked around with this message at Jan 31, 2018 around 20:58

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Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

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Soiled Meat

Yeah I'm gonna sand/file around it.

Hey, I noticed the edge is slightly wavy/crooked. What's the best way to straighten it?

Submarine Sandpaper
May 27, 2007

ASK ME ABOUT HOW I GHOULISHLY CELEBRATE THE DEATH OF CHILDREN TO TEACH THEIR PARENTS "A LESSON"


depending on how severe you'll need to thin the wide bevel but you may just be able to recreate the edge.

This is a feature of cheap Chinese cleavers though. I did a dumb thing and have been taking off metal with sandpaper to try and straighten and smooth mine out. I've shaved off more than a mm and now know to just buy a better knife.

SubG
Aug 19, 2004

It's a hard world for little things.


Steve Yun posted:

Yeah I'm gonna sand/file around it.

Hey, I noticed the edge is slightly wavy/crooked. What's the best way to straighten it?
Like small enough you could fix them with a rod or stropping? If so, then with a rod or stropping.

If it still has the factory edge I'd probably just re-profile it anyway. I think every cheap Chinese cleaver I've bought (and I've bought a lot) has come with a factory edge that looked like it had been made by someone on a fentanyl binge with an angle grinder.

For edges that are approximately right I usually use a Norton medium stone. For really pathological cases I'll just use like 80 grit sandpaper to get the basic bevel I want, then switch to stones to pretty it up. For most sharpening I just freehand it, because I'm old and I've been doing this roughly forever. For serious re-profiling I'll use a platform angled to whatever bevel I want (so you just have to keep the blade parallel to the table or whatever). I think I've posted the setup roughly a billion times before so you've already seen it, but I can repost if you want. Anyway, if you're re-profiling with sandpaper you can just wrap the paper around a stone and then use whatever system you'd use to maintain a constant angle anyway.

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

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Soiled Meat

Part of why I picked an $8 piece of poo poo was because I wanted to learn some of this stuff, thanks guys.

It is kind of cool that this design is sort of a blank slate to do whatever the hell you want to it.

SubG
Aug 19, 2004

It's a hard world for little things.


Yeah. I'll point out again that you can get a totally not-piece-of-poo poo for like US$20.

The CCK that most people are talking about when they talk about a CCK is the small slicer, the KF130x line. The one that ck2g sells is the KF1303, the smallest of that line (#1 is 24 cm, #2 is 21, and #3 is 20). Ck2g currently wants US$80 for one of 'em.

Any day of the week you can get a Shi Ba Zi S210-x straight from China for like US$20 shipped. I've got a CCK KF1301 and a SBZ S210-1 and most people would find it difficult to tell the difference. The SBZ is like a couple mm shorter (tip to heel), has a very slightly different handle, and weighs a couple g more. And apart from the brand markings you'd have a hard time telling them apart.

I can do some side-by-side pics if anyone's interested. But seriously. I've owned a CCK for years and years and love it and it's the knife I use the most. But there are absolutely other options out there for people scared away by the price the CCKs are currently commanding in the States.

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

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Soiled Meat

SubG posted:

Any day of the week you can get a Shi Ba Zi S210-x straight from China for like US$20 shipped.

This one?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/11-...iceBeautifyAB=0

Steve Yun fucked around with this message at Jan 31, 2018 around 23:52

SubG
Aug 19, 2004

It's a hard world for little things.


Steve Yun posted:

Link? I found one for $30
There's a seller on aliexpress here is selling the S210-1 for US$22.62 and the S210-2 for US$22.12. This is listed as a 49% off sale that ends in a few hours, but when it expires there will be another `sale' at approximately the same price.

That's the seller I bought mine off of (via aliexpress) several months ago (for the same price). Didn't have any problems with them, but buying poo poo off aliexpress is like buying poo poo off eBay---most of the time there are no problems, but occasionally you get a dodgy seller.

Anyway, I threw the CCK and SBZ on the table and took some pics and measurements. Click for big:



The more patina'd one top right is the CCK KF1301 (the real tell here is that CCK's phone number is stamped into the blade, which is true for most CCK knives). The one lower left is the SBZ S210-1. Individual examples of both vary a little, but the CCK is 232 x 101 mm, 2.79 mm thick at the spine, and weighs 367 g. The SBZ is 228 x 95 mm, 2.67 mm at the spine, and weighs 421 g. In the hand they're more or less identical. Like I've been using that CCK more or less daily for like a loving decade so I can (or I think I can) tell there's a small difference, but that would probably be true if you just gave me a different CCK KF1301.

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

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Soiled Meat

Hmm, looks good but I think as I'm handling 4 different chinese cleavers right now, I think I prefer them being under 8 inches and weighing less than 10 ounces because of my weak puny hands

Thanks for the info though because so many chinese knife shops have so little info on dimensions/weight

SubG
Aug 19, 2004

It's a hard world for little things.


Steve Yun posted:

Hmm, looks good but I think as I'm handling 4 different chinese cleavers right now, I think I prefer them being under 8 inches and weighing less than 10 ounces because of my weak puny hands

Thanks for the info though because so many chinese knife shops have so little info on dimensions/weight
Around that size my favourite Chinese cleaver is a Deng:



It's right at 195 mm (or about 7.6") tip to heel and weighs around 345 g (or ~12 oz). Unlike the CCK and SBZ I posted earlier, the thickness is not even across the blade. The one pictured above is around 1.65 mm across the flat before the primary bevel (where the black part meets the part that looks like bare metal) but at the spine it's like 6.5 mm. I couldn't get a good photo to illustrate this, but you can kinda see it by the shadow along the spine. Where it flares it is sorta scalloped---it's not a flat bevel, like near the edge, but rather a concave curve. This makes it really comfortable in a pinch grip (at least for me) and makes it really loving well balanced. Like even though it's way thicker at the spine than anything other than my bone cleavers, it feels more...I dunno...responsive?...than any other cleaver I have.

I was a total impulse buy---I definitely prefer cleavers around 230mm---but I really dig it.

Edit: I just noticed that I got a page on kashrut. I just flipped it open to a random page, hahaha.

SubG fucked around with this message at Feb 1, 2018 around 15:51

wormil
Sep 12, 2002

Hulk will smoke you!

No doubt a dumb question but how are you guys using the cleavers? Chopping obviously but more specifically? The blades look very thick.

SubG
Aug 19, 2004

It's a hard world for little things.


wormil posted:

No doubt a dumb question but how are you guys using the cleavers? Chopping obviously but more specifically? The blades look very thick.
Everything but chopping, unless you count push cutting as chopping. They're general-purpose chef's knives. They're not built at all like a Western butcher's/bone cleaver.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


wormil posted:

No doubt a dumb question but how are you guys using the cleavers? Chopping obviously but more specifically? The blades look very thick.
The profile is actually very thin. The knife is probably half the thickness of your average German knife - it's about as thick as the victorinox chef knife/tojiro chef knife/my japanese slicer.

I like it because you can cut vegetables with it and then move the pieces around easily. You also don't have to clear as much space in front of your cutting board vs a normal chef's knife.

No Wave fucked around with this message at Feb 1, 2018 around 03:47

wormil
Sep 12, 2002

Hulk will smoke you!

No Wave posted:

The profile is actually very thin. The knife is probably half the thickness of your average German knife - it's about as thick as the victorinox chef knife/tojiro chef knife/my japanese slicer.

I like it because you can cut vegetables with it and then move the pieces around easily. You also don't have to clear as much space in front of your cutting board vs a normal chef's knife.

Ah, the pictures gave the impression they were thick blades. So it's not a cleaver at all, it's a big square knife. That would be handy.

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.


wormil posted:

Ah, the pictures gave the impression they were thick blades. So it's not a cleaver at all, it's a big square knife. That would be handy.

Yeah, they are like a heavy, straight edged chef's knife and excel at scooping up lots of stuff you just cut up and moving it to a pot or whatever, very useful.

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

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Soiled Meat

Hey if my POS knife is crooked and curved can I just beat it flat with a hammer

Knucklebear
Apr 19, 2005


Anyone have experience with Misen knives?

The internet has been raving about them since they seem to be great bang for your buck.

SymmetryrtemmyS
Jul 13, 2013



Knucklebear posted:

Anyone have experience with Misen knives?

The internet has been raving about them since they seem to be great bang for your buck.

I was also curious about the same thing when buying a knife for my sister, who has about half a dozen dollar store kitchen knives. I did lots of research and read dozens of reviews, and Kuma seems to be the better cheapo option.

Or go to Chinatown and buy a CCK.

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

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Soiled Meat

Knucklebear posted:

Anyone have experience with Misen knives?

The internet has been raving about them since they seem to be great bang for your buck.

There was a bit of a scandal with the kickstarter supporters because somebody did a rockwell hardness test on it and found it to be below what they advertised. Misen investigated the issue and it turned out that the factory in China was taking shortcuts for tempering the steel.

I have no idea if they fixed the issue.

edit: https://www.wired.com/2016/10/review-misen-chefs-knife/

HRC 56 is still acceptable if you're used to western knives. I think most of my Henckels are 57-58. But I guess it left a bad taste in people's mouths

Steve Yun fucked around with this message at Feb 2, 2018 around 00:00

Carillon
May 9, 2014



I'm someone (maybe a sucker) who preordered one, mainly based off of Kenji's recommendations. I haven't had any emails about any sort of fix and nothing officially from them about the problem. It's ok, I got a Zhen about 6 months later as a gift that I like a lot more and use a lot more, and if not using that will be using my wusthoff instead. It's fine, better than the victorinex my parents had, but I certainly don't rave about it.

Knucklebear
Apr 19, 2005


Thanks for the Misen info.

I've got a Global knife that I really like but it's getting long in the tooth and I haven't always been nice to it so it's pretty dull now. I should get it sharpened but the last time I took a knife to a local guy it came back dull. So, i'm debating whether to find a better place to get it sharpened, buy a whetstone and sharpen it myself or just buy a new knife.

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

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Soiled Meat

Take it to anew guy, it should be like $8, right?

If you're learning to sharpen I'd suggest getting a $30 chinese knockoff edge pro first before learning to freehand

Steve Yun fucked around with this message at Feb 2, 2018 around 00:35

veiled boner fuel
Oct 21, 2015


BrianBoitano posted:

Let's start the thread with . I use the dishwasher for our stainless knives which have resin handles, when my wife isn't looking

My dishwasher has two sheaths specifically for large chef's knives. Yours probably does too. The three dangers of dish washing:

1. Chipping / dulling when the knife rattles around & against other things in your washer. Sheath thingie prevents that.
2. Rust / patina on non-stainless knives
3. Wooden handles warping

Don't get me wrong, I hand wash 90% of the time because I'll need the knife sooner than I'll run the dishwasher.

Of course otoh our carbon steel knife gets the royal treatment.

I thought it was:

1. Wooden handles get destroyed
2. Dish washer detergent is abrasive as poo poo so it dulls your knives rapidly.

I don't think I've ever had a dishwasher with a chef knife sheath though so....????

e: four posts later I see you've already been corrected. Maybe consider editing your original post.

veiled boner fuel fucked around with this message at Feb 2, 2018 around 04:57

Submarine Sandpaper
May 27, 2007

ASK ME ABOUT HOW I GHOULISHLY CELEBRATE THE DEATH OF CHILDREN TO TEACH THEIR PARENTS "A LESSON"


Steve Yun posted:

Hey if my POS knife is crooked and curved can I just beat it flat with a hammer

check with DIY, there's a knife making thread (who knows if anyone hammers them out), but I want to say not without heat.

How do you find your local guys? The only one I know of in NE OH just goes to a farmers market on occasion. I wouldn't mind sharpening for some cash myself but shipping to my residential leads to missing packages about .5% of the time.

Jhet
Jun 3, 2013


Submarine Sandpaper posted:

check with DIY, there's a knife making thread (who knows if anyone hammers them out), but I want to say not without heat.

How do you find your local guys? The only one I know of in NE OH just goes to a farmers market on occasion. I wouldn't mind sharpening for some cash myself but shipping to my residential leads to missing packages about .5% of the time.

If you can't find them on the internet, then you pretty much have to talk to people who also have nice knives that don't sharpen them by themselves (but actually get them sharpened).

In my case, I was complaining about knives going dull and someone sent me to a restaurant supply store that also happens to sharpen knives. I wouldn't take them expensive knives that need hand sharpening, but for my nothing special knives, they do the job and they're cheap.

Submarine Sandpaper
May 27, 2007

ASK ME ABOUT HOW I GHOULISHLY CELEBRATE THE DEATH OF CHILDREN TO TEACH THEIR PARENTS "A LESSON"


Ah my bet is that they just ran it through one of those electronic diamond sharpeners, my condolences, a global can get a good edge. I'll just try to get word of mouth out via coworkers/friends.

Jhet
Jun 3, 2013


Submarine Sandpaper posted:

Ah my bet is that they just ran it through one of those electronic diamond sharpeners, my condolences, a global can get a good edge. I'll just try to get word of mouth out via coworkers/friends.

Maybe. I honestly never used them and just bought a water stone to do it myself as I needed it to sharpen woodworking blades anyway. The basic sharpening equipment turned out to be less expensive and gives me the opportunity to practice before buying nicer stones and blades.

wormil
Sep 12, 2002

Hulk will smoke you!

Many cities have a company that sharpens things for other businesses (and probably walk ins) and often will sharpen almost anything... saw blades, guillotine blades, jointer and planer blades, sometimes even knives and hand saws. They may or may not advertise to the public because they are primarily B2B (business to business). If you don't find one in the yellow pages, call a local cabinet shop or print shop and ask where they get blades sharpened.

Ranter
Jul 11, 2004



kamikoto worth picking up?

https://www.amazon.com/Kamikoto-144...t/dp/B011LBF5H4 but they have a coupon code for $272

Scott808
Jul 11, 2001


Ranter posted:

kamikoto worth picking up?

https://www.amazon.com/Kamikoto-144...t/dp/B011LBF5H4 but they have a coupon code for $272

No.

Why are people so intrigued by these pieces of poo poo that just scream scam? These come up constantly on the internet, and I've run into people asking about them in real life too. A lady at work told me she was going to get them and I talked her out of it. Another lady at work has a family member who bought them and won't use them because they're too expensive and nice. FFS.

https://youarenotsosmart.com/2010/0...choring-effect/

Ranter
Jul 11, 2004



The amazon reviews I guess? Wondering if $280 is good value for 3 japanese steel knives. Am well aware of the sale/discount trick.

glynnenstein
Feb 18, 2014



I can't even tell if it's even actually Japanese steel. They don't identify what steel it is or how hard it's treated on amazon or on their website. Steer clear. These might be $20 knives.

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.


Ranter posted:

The amazon reviews I guess? Wondering if $280 is good value for 3 japanese steel knives. Am well aware of the sale/discount trick.

They are trash, "japanese steel" means nothing without saying what steel it is and how hard it is. You can get a set of 3 knives from an actual reputable brand for $130.

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

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Soiled Meat

It's manufactured in China. They let slip in an email to a customer that the HRC was 53 +/-2. That's the hardness of a wood axe.

Edit LOL the steel is so soft a scouring pad will make it foggy:
https://cheftalk.com/threads/kamiko...es.91253/page-2

Steve Yun fucked around with this message at Feb 4, 2018 around 08:05

guppy
Sep 21, 2004

sting like a byob

Ranter posted:

The amazon reviews I guess? Wondering if $280 is good value for 3 japanese steel knives. Am well aware of the sale/discount trick.

Knives are one of those things where I don't put any stock in Amazon reviews because your average Amazoner writing reviews doesn't know anything about knives. Amazon also has lots of scammers writing positive reviews for themselves.

I'm not seeing a coupon code, I see a price of $1295. Are you saying that they have a coupon to make the entire set of 3 almost 80% off? If so, that should be a red flag right there. If you're saying it's $272 a knife, here are 3 links to some superb MAC knives:

Chef's knife, $145 - https://www.amazon.com/Mac-Knife-Pr...+chef%27s+knife

Paring knife, $52 - https://www.amazon.com/Mac-Knife-Pr...al+paring+knife

Nakiri, $85 - https://www.chefknivestogo.com/navekn6.html (Amazon didn't have it, this site is reputable; they have the others too but they are more expensive)

These are from one of MAC's high-end lines. They are all actually made in Japan with actual Japanese steel with an actual acceptable hardness rating (per their website, between 59 and 61 for all knives). The price for all 3 together is $282. And while I love MACs personally, you do not actually need to drop this kind of money if you don't want to -- you can get some very good knives for less.

Submarine Sandpaper
May 27, 2007

ASK ME ABOUT HOW I GHOULISHLY CELEBRATE THE DEATH OF CHILDREN TO TEACH THEIR PARENTS "A LESSON"


Lol fakespot doesn't even ID the reviews as absolutely terrible.

Wroughtirony
May 14, 2007



guppy posted:

[...]
Paring knife, $52 - https://www.amazon.com/Mac-Knife-Pr...al+paring+knife

[...]
And while I love MACs personally, you do not actually need to drop this kind of money if you don't want to -- you can get some very good knives for less.


Unless you're doing garde manger competitions professionally, I don't see the benefit of ever having a paring knife that nice/expensive. It's the knife you're most likely to drop or gently caress up, and you're not ever using it for prep on a massive scale. I get that you recognize that spending this much isn't necessary, but for a paring knife specifically... I guess if it brings you $52 worth of joy, that's great? If I'm missing something, tell me.

guppy
Sep 21, 2004

sting like a byob

Wroughtirony posted:

Unless you're doing garde manger competitions professionally, I don't see the benefit of ever having a paring knife that nice/expensive. It's the knife you're most likely to drop or gently caress up, and you're not ever using it for prep on a massive scale. I get that you recognize that spending this much isn't necessary, but for a paring knife specifically... I guess if it brings you $52 worth of joy, that's great? If I'm missing something, tell me.

I own four of the $6 Victorinoxes. I've never been moved to drop that much on a paring knife, I'm just trying to compare apples to apples.

Wroughtirony
May 14, 2007



guppy posted:

I own four of the $6 Victorinoxes. I've never been moved to drop that much on a paring knife, I'm just trying to compare apples to apples.

Okay, that makes sense now. I was confused and thought you were suggesting someone actually buy a $50 paring knife. Carry on.

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Ranter
Jul 11, 2004



Cool glad I asked here before wasting money.

I have a tojiro santoku that I picked up a few years ago for $60 based on recommendations in this thread a few years ago. So thanks twice.

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