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jvick
Jun 24, 2008

WE ARE
PENN STATE


Wroughtirony posted:




12" slicer: For the big meat. If you don't do big meat, you don't need this knife.

tl;dr: If you are buying your first knives, get the Victorinox chef knife and paring knife, then add to your collection as you see a need.

Hey Guys, I'm in the market for a solid meat slicing knife. We got a Wusthoff knife set for our wedding about 3 years ago. It came with a chef's knife, bread knife, a 6-7" knife I don't know the name of and an assortment of smaller knives (pairing to steak). Missing is a good meat slicing knife. The chef knife is about 8" long, but really it gets used for so many other things it gets dull pretty quick. Mainly I'd be using the meat knife for stuff like thick tri tips, ribeyes, prime ribs, etc. It'd be used maybe once or twice per month during BBQ season at least.

Wroughtirony how satisfied are you with the knife above? Do you find it holds an edge pretty well aside from regular honing?

I'm looking to stay under $100 fwiw.

:tia:

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mindphlux
Jan 8, 2004





jvick posted:

Hey Guys, I'm in the market for a solid meat slicing knife. We got a Wusthoff knife set for our wedding about 3 years ago. It came with a chef's knife, bread knife, a 6-7" knife I don't know the name of and an assortment of smaller knives (pairing to steak). Missing is a good meat slicing knife. The chef knife is about 8" long, but really it gets used for so many other things it gets dull pretty quick. Mainly I'd be using the meat knife for stuff like thick tri tips, ribeyes, prime ribs, etc. It'd be used maybe once or twice per month during BBQ season at least.

Wroughtirony how satisfied are you with the knife above? Do you find it holds an edge pretty well aside from regular honing?

I'm looking to stay under $100 fwiw.

:tia:

what's wrong with the wusthof chef's knife for "meat cutting" ?

if it gets dull, you're more in the market for a sharpening stone or knockoff edgepro than a "meat slicing knife" imo

His Divine Shadow
Aug 7, 2000

I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do.


I prefer Victorinox knives because it's good bang for the buck, but also I like how they do business:
https://groundswell.org/meet-the-on...ff-an-employee/

Wroughtirony
May 14, 2007



jvick posted:

Hey Guys, I'm in the market for a solid meat slicing knife. We got a Wusthoff knife set for our wedding about 3 years ago. It came with a chef's knife, bread knife, a 6-7" knife I don't know the name of and an assortment of smaller knives (pairing to steak). Missing is a good meat slicing knife. The chef knife is about 8" long, but really it gets used for so many other things it gets dull pretty quick. Mainly I'd be using the meat knife for stuff like thick tri tips, ribeyes, prime ribs, etc. It'd be used maybe once or twice per month during BBQ season at least.

Wroughtirony how satisfied are you with the knife above? Do you find it holds an edge pretty well aside from regular honing?

I'm looking to stay under $100 fwiw.

:tia:

The knife pictured is a Messermeister from my culinary school knife kit. It's very comparable to a Wusthof and probably about a $100 knife. If I were buying my own, I would go with a rounded tip instead of pointed.

I agree with mindphlux that "because my chef knife is dull" is not a good reason to buy another knife, it's a good reason to keep your chef knife sharper. I obviously see the use in having a slicer, but it's not because my other knives are duller.

One of the main benefits to owning more expensive knives is that many of them will hold an edge better than a cheap knife. This is a big deal for a chef knife, less of a big deal for your non-serrated slicer, since even if you were making a roast every day, it would take a long time to get dull just from slicing meat. So if I were in your shoes, I would probably buy this knife: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005P0OOXE/

I love my German steel knives and I will probably use some of them for the rest of my life, but I don't really recommend them as new purchases to anyone because it just doesn't make sense to spend extra money on softer steel.

His Divine Shadow
Aug 7, 2000

I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do.


Those round/oval shaped diamond / ceramic 10" hones are real easy to use IMO to keep your knives sharpened.

guppy
Sep 21, 2004

sting like a byob

I also like ceramic hones, but honing and sharpening aren't the same thing.

Re: slicers, I bought the slicer Kenji recommended (this Tuo one) and I kind of hate it. I probably should have known better. Also, I think that the manufacturer thinks grantons and hollow grinds are the same thing. You are supposed to hone slicers, right?

Submarine Sandpaper
May 27, 2007

ASK ME ABOUT HOW I GHOULISHLY CELEBRATE THE DEATH OF CHILDREN TO TEACH THEIR PARENTS "A LESSON"


that one yes, it's more depending on the steel and that one in particular is 440a with an unknown hardness.

that handle though

Here's a decent cheap slicer https://www.chefknivestogo.com/toprsu24.html

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

I
ANALYZE
CARTOONS


Soiled Meat

Oh god I'm starting to see youtube ads for Kamikoto knives

Steve Yun fucked around with this message at Feb 6, 2018 around 00:23

Ranter
Jul 11, 2004



youtube has ads?

fart simpson
Jul 2, 2005



Lipstick Apathy

Ranter posted:

youtube has ads?

This.

jvick
Jun 24, 2008

WE ARE
PENN STATE


mindphlux posted:

if it gets dull, you're more in the market for a sharpening stone or knockoff edgepro than a "meat slicing knife" imo

I probably should get a sharpening stone just because. But I'm not a fan of the way the chef knife feels when I'm slicing. I do hone the knife at least every other use, and definitely before each time I cut meat. I'm sure the chef knife is dull as poo poo since we use it just about everyday on plastic, wood, and laminate (counter top) surfaces.

I also help at a fair amount of fundraisers where a group of us have to trim, and slice a few hundred chunks of meat. I think a nice slicer would hold up better in those situations.

So, with that said, what would you recommend as far as sharpening stones go?

Babylon Astronaut
Apr 19, 2012


This slicer looks cool. Has similar features to the expensive ones. I personally cannot attest to the quality, but it piqued my interest.

His Divine Shadow
Aug 7, 2000

I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do.


guppy posted:

I also like ceramic hones, but honing and sharpening aren't the same thing.

A diamond hone/sharpener like I got is coarse like a diamond plate and does actually remove material when I use it, so it sharpens in the same way a stone does. The action is not like that of a steel.

edit:
In Swedish you got "bryna" and "slipa", you hone your knives with things like oil stones and hones, then you got grinding which is basically a more coarse version that removes more material and setting of bevels. Both of these fall under the catchall term "vässning" or sharpening. I can only assume english works the same way with honing and gridning falling under the catchall term of sharpening, because both actions are basically doing that, sharpening the tool.

I both grind (on a belt grinder) and hone (loads of stones and diamond hones) my knives, chisels, plane blades etc.

edit 2: In swedish the action for using a steel is to "ståla" or to "steel" it. I was pretty sure I had heard this term in english too.

His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at Feb 6, 2018 around 10:01

guppy
Sep 21, 2004

sting like a byob

His Divine Shadow posted:

A diamond hone/sharpener like I got is coarse like a diamond plate and does actually remove material when I use it, so it sharpens in the same way a stone does. The action is not like that of a steel.

edit:
In Swedish you got "bryna" and "slipa", you hone your knives with things like oil stones and hones, then you got grinding which is basically a more coarse version that removes more material and setting of bevels. Both of these fall under the catchall term "vässning" or sharpening. I can only assume english works the same way with honing and gridning falling under the catchall term of sharpening, because both actions are basically doing that, sharpening the tool.

I both grind (on a belt grinder) and hone (loads of stones and diamond hones) my knives, chisels, plane blades etc.

edit 2: In swedish the action for using a steel is to "ståla" or to "steel" it. I was pretty sure I had heard this term in english too.

Ah, I see, I misunderstood. And yes, we do have the verb "to steel."

His Divine Shadow
Aug 7, 2000

I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do.


My post could be interpreted as a question more than a statement. i.e. "am I right in assuming this regarding the terms honing/sharpening/grinding?"

Because I've googled it today and I am more confused than when I begun, it seems there's no clear cut terminology. Some people do call what you do with a steel for honing, and using a sharpening stone for sharpening. Seems not as as clear cut as in swedish.

dead comedy forums
Oct 21, 2011


re: chinese cleavers

I got one a good while ago and it loving rocks, however, I noticed in the pics SubG posted that they are far more "straighter" than the one I got, which is slightly rounded in the middle (and actually caused me a good deal of trouble the first time I got to sharpen it). Then I started checking a few videos about sharpening those, I noticed some guys put the whole blade parallel to the stone and go back and forth (which I suppose is exactly for making extremely straight and sharp edges), so I gotta ask: are there two types of cleaver or is just a gimmick that some forges do in order to help those who do rock-chopping?

glynnenstein
Feb 18, 2014



In my experience in the US, people are very loose with the terminology in general and will conflate or not distinguish individual steps. It's all "sharpening" to lots of folks, but I've been taught that the gross shaping of the blade and bevel should be called "grinding" or "profiling." The creation of a cutting edge should be called "sharpening." The refining and polishing of the cutting edge is "honing" or "stropping."

"Honing rods," also called "kitchen steels" or just "hones," used to traditionally be not very abrasive and were expected to just be used to hone a sharp edge. That didn't stop people from saying they were sharpening their knives on one. And now that lots of those rods are very abrasive people might still call them hones even if they are using them to sharpen a blade.

Submarine Sandpaper
May 27, 2007

ASK ME ABOUT HOW I GHOULISHLY CELEBRATE THE DEATH OF CHILDREN TO TEACH THEIR PARENTS "A LESSON"


Babylon Astronaut posted:

This slicer looks cool. Has similar features to the expensive ones. I personally cannot attest to the quality, but it piqued my interest.
you should know how to sharpen and have a method to flatten your sharpening stone before getting a single bevel.

Wroughtirony
May 14, 2007



What's the deal with vanadium? Does it just sound cool or does it actually make a blade better? If so, how? All I know about vanadium is its use in batteries for storing solar power.

totalnewbie
Nov 13, 2005

I was born and raised in China, lived in Japan, and now hold a US passport.

I am wrong in every way, all the damn time.

Ask me about my tattoos.


Wroughtirony posted:

What's the deal with vanadium? Does it just sound cool or does it actually make a blade better? If so, how? All I know about vanadium is its use in batteries for storing solar power.

Yes, vanadium is a common alloying element for steel to increase hardness. But just as important as composition is the processing of steel. If it's not processed properly, you can have a steel that's too soft or too brittle.

Rotten Cookies
Nov 11, 2008

gosh! i like both the islanders and the rangers!!! :^)


Like most elements added to steel, it depends how much of it is added and what else it's combined with, and the big one, how it's heat treated and such. For knives, though, in general it lets steel be hard while also being a bit more flexible. It also sounds cool as gently caress.


I know vanadium has been used for a long while, since like the 1920s, but we've come a lot further in doping alloys and I'm pretty sure it's seeing a resurgence as materials science and metallurgy people are "rediscovering" it. Or at least a resurgence in marketing it. It's really very common in lots of steel. My friend/coworker is more the materials science guy, so I should prolly ask him.

Rotten Cookies fucked around with this message at Feb 6, 2018 around 15:04

totalnewbie
Nov 13, 2005

I was born and raised in China, lived in Japan, and now hold a US passport.

I am wrong in every way, all the damn time.

Ask me about my tattoos.


Rotten Cookies posted:

Or at least a resurgence in marketing it.

It's this. Most people who buy knives (and probably don't read this thread) couldn't tell the difference between a cheap stamped piece of sheet metal from a nice forging.

BTW I'm a material science guy :P

Rotten Cookies
Nov 11, 2008

gosh! i like both the islanders and the rangers!!! :^)


Awesome! It was one of my favorite classes in school. Never went further than that one class, though. I work as a CNC programmer/machinist so it's not exactly my wheelhouse but it's super cool poo poo. I always find it funny that there are fads and trends in materials manufacturing and poo poo. I mean, it makes perfect sense, but I still find it funny.

*Monster truck voice*
OUR CHROMIUM VANADIUM MOLYBDENUM STEEL IS THE UNBEATABLE KITCHEN KNIFE YOU NEED! DON'T MISS OUT ON THIS SPACE-GRADE TECHNOLOGY!

mindphlux
Jan 8, 2004





jvick posted:

So, with that said, what would you recommend as far as sharpening stones go?

I have a norton oilstone that works well, and also this "AGPtek" fixed angle system that works well.

you have to freehand the norton oilstone, which I thought I was messing up, so I picked up the agptek edgepro knockoff. I think now I was probably doing just fine with an oilstone freehanding, it just takes technique with either method. the edgepro style is definitely more foolproof though.

I'd spend $30 on that before spending $30 on more knives - you don't really know what you're working with in terms of your current gear, until you've given properly sharpening your existing knives a go. honing is great, but even a properly honed knife is going to lose its edge after 2-3 months of regular use - or quicker if you're cutting on glass and ceramic.

mindphlux
Jan 8, 2004





His Divine Shadow posted:

My post could be interpreted as a question more than a statement. i.e. "am I right in assuming this regarding the terms honing/sharpening/grinding?"

Because I've googled it today and I am more confused than when I begun, it seems there's no clear cut terminology. Some people do call what you do with a steel for honing, and using a sharpening stone for sharpening. Seems not as as clear cut as in swedish.

honing and steeling are the same thing in english - I think that might be the only confusing thing.

sharpening does encompass grinding and profiling. basically anything where you're removing metal from the blade is sharpening/grinding/profiling.

anything where you're resetting the sharp tip/cutting edge of the knife to the correct angle by manipulating it (but not removing large amounts of metal) is honing / polishing. stropping is just the extremely high end of polishing where you're caressing and smoothing the last little bits of the exposed blade edge into alignment with the gentleness of a freshly powdered baby's asscheek sliding across his mother's busom.

that said, all that is confounded by most people not knowing much about how knife sharpening works. so my mom would probably say 'oh I'm going to use a steel to sharpen my knife' because that's what she thinks she's doing.

mindphlux fucked around with this message at Feb 8, 2018 around 08:55

dead comedy forums
Oct 21, 2011


I really should read some profiling guides because after noticing the differences between the chinese cleavers posted here and mine, well

my cleaver looks "axe-ish" because it has a quite pronounced belly in comparison to the pics posted here, which might explain why the push-cut motion is good but not that good

Reiterpallasch
Nov 3, 2010

strength accessories?

Fun Shoe

Here's a question that I don't think has been addressed before (or at least I missed it)--what knives would you suggest for explicitly for gift purposes? By which I mean something that's:

- definitely stainless
- visually striking. Like damascus-style etching, nashiji finishes, nice wood handles, that sort of thing.
- able to hold an edge pretty well even if the owner maybe isn't getting it sharpened as often as they could be.
- still a decent value, so maybe not the DALSTRONG-style scam knives

This seems to keep coming up when people ask me for suggestions, and the best answer I've been able to give is to wait for a sale on Shun damascus stuff (I did buy a Shiro Kamo R2 for my parents a few years back, but those are a bit out of a lot of people's price ranges). Does anyone have a better idea?

mindphlux
Jan 8, 2004





if I were giving a gift, shun would be up there. they're too pricey, but they're nice knives, look fancy, have brand recognition so you aren't just giving them some rando 'hattori hanzo' steel, and they're a style of knife most people won't already own... (like, most people will have some german style knives in their kitchen, so a thinner harder blade is nice...)

guppy
Sep 21, 2004

sting like a byob

Even in a gift I don't really care about faux Damascus finishes, but yeah, I agree about Shun. I would also give MAC or even Wusthof's Classic line as a gift, but they are not lookers particularly. I have also given a Victorinox Fibrox chef's knife as a gift to a friend who will not care about fancy knives but had no decent prep knives at all and just needed something reliable.

mindphlux
Jan 8, 2004





guppy posted:

Even in a gift I don't really care about faux Damascus finishes, but yeah, I agree about Shun. I would also give MAC or even Wusthof's Classic line as a gift, but they are not lookers particularly. I have also given a Victorinox Fibrox chef's knife as a gift to a friend who will not care about fancy knives but had no decent prep knives at all and just needed something reliable.

yeah basically this 100%

victorinox make great gifts if the person you're gifting to doesn't really care, but you don't wanna give them a poo poo gift.

Oldsrocket_27
Apr 28, 2009


Reiterpallasch posted:

Here's a question that I don't think has been addressed before (or at least I missed it)--what knives would you suggest for explicitly for gift purposes? By which I mean something that's:

- definitely stainless
- visually striking. Like damascus-style etching, nashiji finishes, nice wood handles, that sort of thing.
- able to hold an edge pretty well even if the owner maybe isn't getting it sharpened as often as they could be.
- still a decent value, so maybe not the DALSTRONG-style scam knives

This seems to keep coming up when people ask me for suggestions, and the best answer I've been able to give is to wait for a sale on Shun damascus stuff (I did buy a Shiro Kamo R2 for my parents a few years back, but those are a bit out of a lot of people's price ranges). Does anyone have a better idea?

Speaking of Shiro Kame R2, it looks like CKTG is dropping them. Does anyone know if someone else in the US carries them?

Thoht
Aug 3, 2006



One nice thing about giving Shuns is the lifetime free sharpening, so they can just send them in if they're not a knife-nerd.

Submarine Sandpaper
May 27, 2007

ASK ME ABOUT HOW I GHOULISHLY CELEBRATE THE DEATH OF CHILDREN TO TEACH THEIR PARENTS "A LESSON"


It's not free anymore, like 5 bux. I gave shuns for that reason though, I don't necessarily want to be sharpening support.

Then the knives never get sent in or sharpened

SubG
Aug 19, 2004

It's a hard world for little things.


Steve Yun posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYbJnAyYIFY#t=46s

Has anyone seen this ridiculous double-sided chinese cleaver? Where does one get one like it?
If you're still in the market for one. As it turns out that's from Only You Kitchenware, which is the same aliexpress merchant we linked to earlier in the thread. If you look through their storefront it looks like they have a couple of other similar knives.

I wasn't actually on the lookout for this...apparently this poo poo just finds me.

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

I
ANALYZE
CARTOONS


Soiled Meat

YESSSSSSSS

edit: gently caress, now I'm gonna have five chinese cleavers

Submarine Sandpaper
May 27, 2007

ASK ME ABOUT HOW I GHOULISHLY CELEBRATE THE DEATH OF CHILDREN TO TEACH THEIR PARENTS "A LESSON"


Product Page posted:

Application:Chop Bone,Slice meat,Cut trees ect.

Flash Gordon Ramsay
Sep 28, 2004



Grimey Drawer

My bamboo boards have never stained. But I keep them well oiled so that may help.

edit: I apparently replied to a pretty old post.

Flash Gordon Ramsay
Sep 28, 2004



Grimey Drawer

Tell me why I shouldn't buy this knife

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00G5HBRW2

SubG
Aug 19, 2004

It's a hard world for little things.


Mechanical translation really likes throwing slaughter and eviscerate into Chinese kitchen knife descriptions. Which is metal as gently caress. `Handmade clip steel kill pig slaughter / split / eviscerate knife'. `Kitchen Chef Slaughter Knife'. `Eviscerate vegetable chef knife'.

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Submarine Sandpaper
May 27, 2007

ASK ME ABOUT HOW I GHOULISHLY CELEBRATE THE DEATH OF CHILDREN TO TEACH THEIR PARENTS "A LESSON"



it's cheaper through other vendors. I'm just about through thinning mine for fun. The grind is not as good as euro or monosteel in my experience but definitely usable. The nakiri I have of theirs has a better one. The D handle really sucks too in my opinion but new handles are worth more than the knife.

Submarine Sandpaper fucked around with this message at Feb 13, 2018 around 22:01

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