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Empty Sandwich posted:nah, they hosed up the steel in the first batch. my Wusthof has been handling garlic-smashing for 15 years.
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Jan 9, 2021 19:43
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djfooboo posted:I think I will choose the benringer as Asians know small cut veggies best. Thanks! the benrier is good for slicing but awful for juliannening/shredding. simply unusable.
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Jan 9, 2021 20:50
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Platystemon posted:I got my Shibazi 210-1 this week. Thanks for the recommendation, SubG. If my S210-1 came with a single bevel edge I didn't notice it, but the first thing I do after taking a new knife out of the box is put a stone to it and I pretty much always expect to have to reprofile, so maybe that's it. The other cleanup work I remember doing is just scrubbing the blade in soap and water to take off any blacking that wanted to come off anyway (so it wouldn't end up in the food later) and then slicing a couple onions and wiping but not rinsing the blade after. Kenshin posted:If you have a knife with a thick spine then sure, but if you're using anything lightweight then you'll can start putting bends in the knife over time. BraveUlysses posted:the benrier is good for slicing but awful for juliannening/shredding. simply unusable.
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Jan 9, 2021 21:15
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SubG posted:I'm trying to imagine how you're crushing garlic if you're bending your knives doing it. Are you like, I dunno, putting the tip on the board and then hitting the knife between the tip and where the garlic is? When I crush garlic with a knife the knife is never in contact with the cutting board and I have no idea how I'd bend the knife doing it even if I tried. You may just have thick knives.
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Jan 9, 2021 21:57
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I have a 13 year old Shun which is pretty thin and I’ve been hammering garlic with it since I got it. It’s fine. I also use my bench scraper which is thinner and softer than a knife and it’s also not bent.
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Jan 9, 2021 23:10
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If you're not crushing your garlic with a meat tenderizer I don't know what to tell you.
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Jan 10, 2021 00:02
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Seems like we should write to Hydraulic Press Channel and settle the matter once and for all.
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Jan 10, 2021 00:12
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The best way to cut garlic is to eat it whole
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Jan 10, 2021 00:17
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Slice it super thin with a razor blade, it'll dissolve in the pan with a little oil
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Jan 10, 2021 00:27
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I focus my mental energies and crush it with my mind, but you do you
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Jan 10, 2021 00:29
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SubG posted:I'm trying to imagine how you're crushing garlic if you're bending your knives doing it. Are you like, I dunno, putting the tip on the board and then hitting the knife between the tip and where the garlic is? When I crush garlic with a knife the knife is never in contact with the cutting board and I have no idea how I'd bend the knife doing it even if I tried. What sort of knives are you using? Something like a VG-10 Masamoto or Tojiro I think it would be pretty difficult to damage a blade by crushing garlic but something like a Yoshikane SKD it's pretty easy to imagine it happening
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Jan 10, 2021 00:45
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BraveUlysses posted:the benrier is good for slicing but awful for juliannening/shredding. simply unusable. You mean the vertical blade inserts it comes with? I use them a lot and they work pretty well for me.
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Jan 10, 2021 03:53
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Nephzinho posted:If you're not crushing your garlic with a meat tenderizer I don't know what to tell you. Vegetable cleaver. The only thing I worry about is accidentally catching my fingers on the board somehow. It's perfect and large and flat and if you catch it cleanly it will just paste it. It's very satisfying.
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Jan 10, 2021 07:25
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This will likely interest this thread: https://greenbergwoods.com/hand-forged-kitchen-knives/ This guy mainly is a supplier of stabilized woods to knifemakers (which is why I was on his website, gonna get some amboyna burl for some knives I'm working on), but: quote:This is a little different than what I normally do. For this project, I worked with a small, family run blacksmithing shop in the far Western mountains of China. They have been forging knives for over 350 years, and have never sold the knives outside of China, and infact the knives are not often sold outside of the Western regions. I had a lot of help translating to put together what we would make.
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Jan 10, 2021 07:45
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Kenshin posted:I'm not, because I don't use a knife to crush garlic. I got that advice from a book by a kitchen knife expert. I also make kitchen knives. bird with big dick posted:What sort of knives are you using? Something like a VG-10 Masamoto or Tojiro I think it would be pretty difficult to damage a blade by crushing garlic but something like a Yoshikane SKD it's pretty easy to imagine it happening I mean seriously: is this a thing anyone has actually seen happen, and if so in what circumstances. Or is this just something people hear about from their uncles who are knifemakers at Nintendo? Because if you're holding the blade parallel to the cutting board then the only way you're bending it is if it's somehow or other bending around the garlic and holy hell I want to know what you're doing if you can make that work.
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Jan 10, 2021 13:02
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 I was travelling across the eastern USA and stopped at a knife store out in the country. The worker sold me this Swiss made Victorinox. He said it was the most popular kitchen knife in the world. He at first tried to sell me the biggest one but I thought the next size down would do just fine.
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Jan 10, 2021 13:29
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I’ve heard of people breaking knives when crushing garlic, never bending them, though.
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Jan 10, 2021 13:36
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If you crush with the handle able to hit the board or counter that's how poo poo gets broke. Or generally if the knife
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Jan 10, 2021 15:56
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There's no reason to crush garlic with your knife to begin with, it's basically sabering champagne
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Jan 10, 2021 16:09
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not pulverizing it, but cracking the skins and crushing it a bit. I mean, that's how Jacques Pepin recommends doing it
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Jan 10, 2021 16:21
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Jan 10, 2021 17:13
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Platystemon posted:I’ve heard of people breaking knives when crushing garlic, never bending them, though. Where on earth are you applying force when you crush garlic? I can't imagine breaking a knife there crushing garlic as I apply all my force directly over the garlic itself. Are you slamming the blade down on the garlic or something?' maybe not "you" but "people"
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Jan 10, 2021 17:18
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Actually I am remembering someone who told me this: the local knife sharpening shop guy, during the class I took. He said that many knives he takes in have warps/bends toward one side from years of users using the same side to smash garlic. So if you're doing it rarely or you're using the spine instead of the flat it probably isn't going to hurt anything, but if you're smashing garlic every day...
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Jan 10, 2021 17:20
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Blade sharpening question I have an assortment of decent knives now and whetstone grits 400/1000/6000 available to me. I am trying to sharpen both my kitchen knives and some woodworking chisels, but I think I'm fundamentally misunderstanding something about it and I would like someone to explain to me in plain terms what I am trying to physically accomplish regarding the very tip of the blade. I can get a flat bevel, but I think I'm loving up the burr or something? Basically every sharpening explanation I find shows what you're supposed to *do* with the metal and the whetstone, but I am having difficulty getting a solid answer to connect both how and why you want to do these things, and how it works. Basically (assuming a flat grind for the sake of simplicity) the idea I have is you get the bevel of the blade good and in doing that, you generate a burr, which is in essence an untrue piece of metal hanging off the edge, which you should remove because although it feels very sharp, it will roll over back onto the edge and make it less sharp. When it comes to removing that burr, I've seen things say to move up to higher grits and polish, and I've also seen things say to finish the edge by gently grinding the edge on the whetstone lengthwise along the blade. I can get *decent* edges, but I'm not satisfied, and I feel like it's a lack of understanding. Anyone wanna correct my understanding here or point me in the direction of a thorough and good sharpening explanation? Also have any of you tried those inexpensive Daovua knives from chefknivestogo? They look like a great value to me and I really like the shape of the bunka
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Jan 10, 2021 17:38
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Have you seen the Science of Sharp’s pages? They’re illustrated with micrographs showing what the edge looks like after various processes, showing what works and how. See also the links in the first couple of paragraphs. signalnoise posted:Also have any of you tried those inexpensive Daovua knives from chefknivestogo? They look like a great value to me and I really like the shape of the bunka They are greatly overpriced for what they are. CKTG imports them and adds a large markup, and they don’t do their own quality control to justify it. They ship out some real lemons. I think they’ll return and replace, but even if you got a good one, it’s still not going to be that great.
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Jan 10, 2021 17:56
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SubG posted:According to the internet a 210mm Yoshikane SKD gyuto is 3.8mm thick at the heel its super fat initially but tapers very rapidly. I wouldn't use it to crush garlic.
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Jan 10, 2021 18:23
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Platystemon posted:Have you seen the Science of Sharp’s pages? They’re illustrated with micrographs showing what the edge looks like after various processes, showing what works and how. What a shame, also thanks for the link! This is pretty much exactly what I wanted
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Jan 10, 2021 19:08
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Kenshin posted:Actually I am remembering someone who told me this: the local knife sharpening shop guy, during the class I took. He said that many knives he takes in have warps/bends toward one side from years of users using the same side to smash garlic. I mean if you don't want to do it yourself, cool. But this is something that I have done literally tens of thousands of times and I'm not particularly graceful or dexterous or anything and I have not seen this thing that you're confidently telling me somebody else told you happens. I mean I'm not trying to argue literally nobody has ever damaged a knife crushing garlic because I'm sure somebody has managed to damage at least one kitchen knife in virtually every way imaginable, just because of the number of them out there and the number of times they're used. But given that it's such a common kitchen task if it was actually so dangerous you'd expect to find some firsthand accounts of it actually happening. bird with big dick posted:its super fat initially but tapers very rapidly. I wouldn't use it to crush garlic.
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Jan 10, 2021 20:54
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Also as we’ve been over with the tortilla chip knife chip, kitchen knives don’t really bend. Hardening steel comes at the expense of ductility. Kitchen knives chip and crack, they don’t bend.
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Jan 10, 2021 21:14
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Chemmy posted:Also as we’ve been over with the tortilla chip knife chip, kitchen knives don’t really bend. Hardening steel comes at the expense of ductility. Kitchen knives chip and crack, they don’t bend. depends on the steel. I will repeat my horror story of dropping a Wusthof point-down on concrete. it bent and I cried, but neither of us broke e: 
Empty Sandwich fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Jan 10, 2021 |
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Jan 10, 2021 22:09
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Chemmy posted:Also as we’ve been over with the tortilla chip knife chip, kitchen knives don’t really bend. Hardening steel comes at the expense of ductility. Kitchen knives chip and crack, they don’t bend. Most common stainless steels will start doing this over time while a properly heat treated high carbon knife is better at retaining its shape. EDIT: I just asked my knifemaking mentor about this and he says it mostly has to do with where people put the pressure on the blade while they are crushing garlic, and since most people have terrible knife skills and don't think about that, that's why they bend their knives. I.e. push down directly on the garlic, don't bend your knife Kenshin fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Jan 10, 2021 |
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Jan 10, 2021 23:03
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I don't really know if people know these things or if they're entirely germane to the current discussion but I figured I'd throw these out there in case there's any misconceptions for people thinking about this kind of stuff: 1. Elastic deformation. We all know that if you bend metal far enough, it plastically deforms and doesn't go back to the original shape. While you may know in the back of your mind, there is also an amount of force you can apply to metal when there is elastic deformation - it means that it 100% returns to its original shape. How much stress can be applied and stay in the elastic deformation region is called the yield strength. A hardened piece of steel, though, will have low elastic deformation before yielding but there is some. 2. Fatigue. Everyone also knows that if you bend something metal back and forth, eventually it will break. This is called fatigue. But, for some metals like steel, there is an amount of stress you can apply under which fatigue does not happen. This is called the fatigue or endurance limit. Some metals, like aluminum, do not have a fatigue limit and fatigue occurs at all stress levels, though cycles may be very, very high at low stress.
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Jan 10, 2021 23:55
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Whole lot of examples of failures being given here in this thread with absolutely no pictures or evidence or actual examples being cited. I’m open to being proven wrong but properly hardened steel generally is basically indifferent to the force a person can generate outside of very small thickness samples. Nobody is cracking their knives in fatigue, either, you’d have to smack something on the order of 10,000 cloves of garlic just right to start considering a low cycle fatigue failure.
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Jan 11, 2021 00:19
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I doubt the garlic is the culprit. It’ll be the blade nearest the spine that would bend/break if you’re leaving the handle over the board. If you’re just smashing garlic no problem unless you create a lever instead of leaving the blade flat through the handle/tang. This is the kitchen knife version of PEBCAK. Just don’t smack and bend your knife at the same time.
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Jan 11, 2021 01:19
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Lawnie posted:Whole lot of examples of failures being given here in this thread with absolutely no pictures or evidence or actual examples being cited. I’m open to being proven wrong but properly hardened steel generally is basically indifferent to the force a person can generate outside of very small thickness samples. Nobody is cracking their knives in fatigue, either, you’d have to smack something on the order of 10,000 cloves of garlic just right to start considering a low cycle fatigue failure. I generally agree. I just don't know what assumptions people like to make based on things they think they know (but don't) so I thought I'd head that off. Like I said earlier, apply force directly over the garlic. Honestly no idea how people are destroying their knives crushing garlic if the knife isn't 1) totally flawed or 2) it isn't just user error.
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Jan 11, 2021 01:39
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I snapped my Misen in fact smashing garlic. It was a super weird feeling let me tell you.Carillon posted:Whelp so much for the vaunted Misen knife lol. I was smashing garlic, old garlic too so it wasn't rock hard or anything.
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Jan 11, 2021 03:30
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Right, but that snapped it didn’t bend. That’s not a ductile failure.
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Jan 11, 2021 03:41
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And as I recall there were some serious materials issues with those, weren't there?
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Jan 11, 2021 03:52
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Yeah that's a straight up failed heat treat from the factory. That break was inevitable with any amount of bending. If you still have those pieces you'll be able to see the grain of the steel in the break--any larger grain structure or slight discolorations are signs of there being a problem with the heat treat process done on that knife.
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Jan 11, 2021 03:53
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Carillon posted:I snapped my Misen in fact smashing garlic. It was a super weird feeling let me tell you. I would love to get my hands on one of these fragments, just for curiosity’s sake. Does the fracture surface look like rock candy?
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Jan 11, 2021 16:58
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