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OK, crash course in metallurgy. There's two basic types of stainless steel, austenitic and martensitic. Austenitic is very corrosion resistant and not magnetic; it's also not very hard. They're alloys like the 300 series (304, etc) stainless. Martensitic is less corrosion resistant and are at least kind of magnetic if not as magnetic as some carbon steels, an example alloy is 440C but there's lots of others. Any proper stainless kitchen knife will be martensitic stainless. edit: Or true enough for the purposes of explaining.
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Apr 11, 2018 11:34
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All of my stainless steel knives are magnetic.
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Apr 11, 2018 11:42
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mekilljoydammit already said it but yeah, any actual knife steel is magnetic enough to be used with magnetic knife holders, the only time I see austenitic steel used in good knives is if they are using cladding, but knives clad in soft steel are still magnetic enough to be used with magnetic knife holders because of the core steel that actually forms the edge of the knife is plenty magnetic enough on its own.
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Apr 11, 2018 13:02
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Conclusion: the message is not "stainless knives do not stick to magnets," but, "if your knife is not sticking to a magnet, it is probably made from the wrong type of stainless steel, and you should replace it with a good knife."
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Apr 11, 2018 15:39
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I have several speed openers from Winco, some have STAINLESS STEEL stamped on them and they don't stick to magnets, some say 301 and stick to magnets. Magnets on speed openers is great because you can stick them on your refrigerator door
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Apr 11, 2018 18:03
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301 stainless is austenitic but is also high work-hardening. Austenitic stainless steels can gain magnetism through work-hardening. This is due to partial transformation of austenite in the annealed condition to martensite after strain. If you stick it in the oven during its self-clean cycle (or an 800 C furnace if you've got one) you can probably anneal it and make it lose its magnetism. 301 stainless is a natural choice for your speed opener because you want something that's relatively hard but minimize heat treat for hardness. Work hardening is a good process to achieve this because you'll roll out your plates to make plates of the correct thickness, but 301 retains enough ductility to be stamped or otherwise formed into the final shape. But 301 stainless hardness tops out at 40ish HRC while 420 stainless can achieve up to 50 with proper heat treat, etc. You sacrifice corrosion resistance in the 420 but you don't need all that much corrosion resistance in a knife (against water, and mild acids is really what you need, especially if you keep your knives clean and don't let food sit on it). Something like a 440C is even better for hardness, with 60HRC achievable in those. But you can hit even higher hardnesses by switching away from stainless steels altogether, though I'm not really sure what steels are used in carbon steel or if any tool steel knives exist (maybe/probably?). totalnewbie fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Apr 11, 2018 |
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Apr 11, 2018 19:01
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Most mismatched username/post combo
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Apr 11, 2018 19:28
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totalnewbie posted:But you can hit even higher hardnesses by switching away from stainless steels altogether, though I'm not really sure what steels are used in carbon steel or if any tool steel knives exist (maybe/probably?). A lot of tool steels ("stainless" or not) get used for higher end pocket knives and stuff. Good points on work hardening with 300-series steels - I was trying to give a high-level, pre-coffee overview. 
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Apr 11, 2018 19:57
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totalnewbie posted:301 stainless is austenitic but is also high work-hardening. Austenitic stainless steels can gain magnetism through work-hardening. Tool steel and carbon steel knives are pretty common up to 63HRC or so, 65+ in some extremely well tempered knives. ZDP189 knives are getting more common for instance, and offer high hardness (on par with Blue Super or White #2) along with good durability (comparable with or better than VG10). Tool steels offer the best of both worlds, but the price is accordingly higher.
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Apr 11, 2018 19:58
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This is a highly rated sharpener that's on sale at Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/ChefsChoice-Sharpening-Euro-American-100-percent-Hone-polish/dp/B007IVBET0/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8 Anyone used this or a similar model? Would you recommend it?
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Apr 12, 2018 15:23
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Those things gently caress up your knives.
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Apr 12, 2018 15:39
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FordCQC posted:This is a highly rated sharpener that's on sale at Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/ChefsChoice-Sharpening-Euro-American-100-percent-Hone-polish/dp/B007IVBET0/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8 Pull through sharpeners rip apart the edge of the knife, by mangling the edge it basically makes the knife finely serrated, but the knife will dull in a few minutes of use afterwards because the torn up edge breaks down very quickly. If you want something simple and hard to screw up I would go with a ceramic rod, though eventually any knife needs a proper resharpening.
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Apr 12, 2018 15:45
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mekilljoydammit posted:A lot of tool steels ("stainless" or not) get used for higher end pocket knives and stuff. Good points on work hardening with 300-series steels - I was trying to give a high-level, pre-coffee overview. Oh for sure, but people love to generalize (e.g. "magnetic = ferritic = hard!") so I really wanted to steer people away from that generalization. Non-magnetic knives are probably guaranteed crap, though. SymmetryrtemmyS posted:Tool steel and carbon steel knives are pretty common up to 63HRC or so, 65+ in some extremely well tempered knives. ZDP189 knives are getting more common for instance, and offer high hardness (on par with Blue Super or White #2) along with good durability (comparable with or better than VG10). Tool steels offer the best of both worlds, but the price is accordingly higher. Yeah, I meant I don't know which grades of those particular steels are used. It's annoying that the knife industry hides their compositions behind proprietary steel grades because it makes it difficult to judge which knives are even worth testing for the high end stuff. Also, there's so much dependence on heat treat, etc. that maybe it's not even worth worrying about it and the real test should just be microhardness testing on the blade. That said, I'm not entirely confident in the ability of knife reviewers to properly assess the hardness of knife blades, as you really want to test the knife edge (not the bulk of the blade), but microharness testing is sensitive to specimen preparation, etc that people who aren't familiar (or aren't in a qualified lab) wouldn't necessarily know or be able to do properly. For example, see here for an article about proper microhardness testing of cutting blades: https://www.qualitymag.com/articles/93790-cutting-edge-hardness-testing Steve Yun posted:Most mismatched username/post combo I know a few things. Just a few. totalnewbie fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Apr 12, 2018 |
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Apr 12, 2018 16:04
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FordCQC posted:This is a highly rated sharpener that's on sale at Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/ChefsChoice-Sharpening-Euro-American-100-percent-Hone-polish/dp/B007IVBET0/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
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Apr 12, 2018 16:09
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:Pull through sharpeners rip apart the edge of the knife, by mangling the edge it basically makes the knife finely serrated, but the knife will dull in a few minutes of use afterwards because the torn up edge breaks down very quickly. If you want something simple and hard to screw up I would go with a ceramic rod, though eventually any knife needs a proper resharpening. Good to know. I actually have access to professional knife sharpening at a reasonable price, but the turnaround is a little long for my taste. I was hoping to find an easy in-home solution but this is probably one of those things you can't really shortcut I guess.
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Apr 12, 2018 16:17
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Grab like a king 800 from amazon for ~20 bucks and use it twice a year. It won't work well for a major edge repair but is fine enough to not need another stone for a generic kitchen knife.
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Apr 12, 2018 16:30
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totalnewbie posted:Yeah, I meant I don't know which grades of those particular steels are used. It's annoying that the knife industry hides their compositions behind proprietary steel grades because it makes it difficult to judge which knives are even worth testing for the high end stuff. Also, there's so much dependence on heat treat, etc. that maybe it's not even worth worrying about it and the real test should just be microhardness testing on the blade. That said, I'm not entirely confident in the ability of knife reviewers to properly assess the hardness of knife blades, as you really want to test the knife edge (not the bulk of the blade), but microharness testing is sensitive to specimen preparation, etc that people who aren't familiar (or aren't in a qualified lab) wouldn't necessarily know or be able to do properly. What's your industry? I'm a mechanical engineer doing testing stuff in small engines, but knives are interesting to me. You're completely right about some of the "proprietary" grades, but truth to tell if you do some digging, most of the really high end knife makers are using off-the-shelf grades. A lot of the CPM tool steels are popular for various uses - some of the blends may be proprietary to Crucible but they publish heat treat guides. If you're know about microhardness testing and stuff, I'm willing to bet that you know where to dig for alloy composition - Rockwell C around 60-62 after tempering, various carbide forming alloying elements help with wear resistance, some balance to avoid too low of toughness. And yeah, heat treat is going to be a bugaboo... some of the steels that people are trying to make knives out of end up with such a fiddly heat treat schedule that it's probably pointless. It's fun to figure out though.
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Apr 12, 2018 17:01
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mekilljoydammit posted:What's your industry? I'm a mechanical engineer doing testing stuff in small engines, but knives are interesting to me. I work for an automotive supplier but have a degree in materials engineering. But I'm an engineer, so things like doing HRC testing on the blade bulk rather than the knife edge annoys me, because it leaves open the possibility of poor heat dissipation/cooling during grinding causing your edge to lose a lot of the hardness it would otherwise have. While I'm willing to be that it's NOT the case that the edge is significantly softer than the bulk material, I hate leaving open that possibility, right? FYI for others: Grinding causes heat and insufficient cooling means the edge of your blade gets hot; hot = transformation of hard martensite to soft austenite. Therefore, it's possible for bulk blade to be harder than the edge.
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Apr 12, 2018 18:08
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A group of friends clubbed together a while back for my 30th and got me a set of Pro Cook X100 knives (3.5in paring knife, 5in utility knife, 8in chefs knife) and was wondering what the general consensus is on how good they are. From my own research hardened steel is long lasting but quite brittle, does this mean that I'm at more risk of messing them up trying to sharpen on stones by myself?
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Apr 17, 2018 14:29
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You're good, it's vg10. It's just brittle in the sense that you shouldn't chop bones or the like with it.
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Apr 17, 2018 14:46
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I got a $50 Williams Sonoma gift card from work and I noticed they're doing a cutlery sale right now. Is there a nice nakiri I could get there that will come to less than three figures after the card and wouldn't be cheaper somewhere else, or should I just get a pot or something and save my money?
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May 3, 2018 20:23
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AnonSpore posted:I got a $50 Williams Sonoma gift card from work and I noticed they're doing a cutlery sale right now. Is there a nice nakiri I could get there that will come to less than three figures after the card and wouldn't be cheaper somewhere else, or should I just get a pot or something and save my money? For $50 you can get some nice artisanal hot chocolate mix
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May 3, 2018 21:00
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https://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/kai-nakiri-knife/?pkey=csale-cutlery&isx=0.0.1900 you'll need diamond to sharpen it t hough /e nvm guess it isn't ceramic
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May 3, 2018 21:04
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AnonSpore posted:I got a $50 Williams Sonoma gift card from work and I noticed they're doing a cutlery sale right now. Is there a nice nakiri I could get there that will come to less than three figures after the card and wouldn't be cheaper somewhere else, or should I just get a pot or something and save my money? The Wusthof Classic nakiris are well reviewed
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May 3, 2018 21:35
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AnonSpore posted:I got a $50 Williams Sonoma gift card from work and I noticed they're doing a cutlery sale right now. Is there a nice nakiri I could get there that will come to less than three figures after the card and wouldn't be cheaper somewhere else, or should I just get a pot or something and save my money? Flash Gordon Ramsay posted:For $50 you can get some nice artisanal hot chocolate mix Ignore the trolls. Go to W&S and find one that feels right in your hand.
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May 6, 2018 05:58
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AnonSpore posted:I got a $50 Williams Sonoma gift card from work and I noticed they're doing a cutlery sale right now. Is there a nice nakiri I could get there that will come to less than three figures after the card and wouldn't be cheaper somewhere else, or should I just get a pot or something and save my money?
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May 10, 2018 10:07
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I want to purchase a sharpening stone to practice on my crappy kitchen knives. I'm thinking about purchasing a King KW65 or a Sheshi 1k/3k; which one of these should I purchase? In terms of brands, which are the "go-to" brands? I literally have no experience in sharpening at all. Also, do I need this?
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May 11, 2018 21:36
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depending how crappy you may be grinding away a lot with a 1k to set the bevel. IMHO get the 1k/6k king and the king 300 or get https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008FU42TW/ref=psdc_289867_t1_B0050ADA2U unless you have carbon/hard knives you really don't need the 6k tbh /e- I did not enjoy sharpening without a stand but the kings come with one to get your feet wet
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May 11, 2018 21:46
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:depending how crappy you may be grinding away a lot with a 1k to set the bevel. IMHO get the 1k/6k king and the king 300 or get https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008FU42TW/ref=psdc_289867_t1_B0050ADA2U Thanks for the suggestion, is King the brand I typically want to stick with?
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May 11, 2018 21:52
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For budget there's them and another company that makes a series of combo stones that run 220-8k grit. Starts with a n or c I think. I do not really like the king 220 compared to 300, the 800 and most of their 1ks are good. I like suhero stones more but that's a bit more expensive. /e- nvm I haven't used the king 220. The 250 is a total loving turd though, don't get the 250/1k combo.Norton is the other budget combo maker that's popular. Submarine Sandpaper fucked around with this message at 22:03 on May 11, 2018 |
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May 11, 2018 21:58
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:For budget there's them and another company that makes a series of combo stones that run 220-8k grit. Starts with a n or c I think. I do not really like the king 220 compared to 300, the 800 and most of their 1ks are good. I like suhero stones more but that's a bit more expensive. Thanks, I'll take a look at the Nortons too. Any suggestions for a strop?
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May 11, 2018 22:23
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I'm relatively ignorant with strops. I only use one for my razor and tend to hone my knives for practice with a cheap jnat when they need a strop. It's very important for paper cut tests though!
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May 12, 2018 22:17
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I use a bench strop personally.
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May 13, 2018 09:13
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obi_ant posted:I want to purchase a sharpening stone to practice on my crappy kitchen knives. I'm thinking about purchasing a King KW65 or a Sheshi 1k/3k; which one of these should I purchase? In terms of brands, which are the "go-to" brands? I literally have no experience in sharpening at all. Also, do I need this? IMO don't get a combo stone; it sounds better in theory than it really is in practice. I would rather get two separate stones. If you use only one side of a single grit stone your base side will always be flat. On a combo stone both sides are used so in order to have a flat (stable) base you flatten the stone more often than a single grit stone. Mud from one side will run down onto the other side. Depending on what you're doing this kinda sucks to varying degrees. Generally speaking, the coarse side is going to wear faster than the finer side, so you're going to wear out one side before the other (if that matters to you) in the long run. I don't have one and haven't used one, but the King 1000 is often said to wear fast and sharpen relatively slowly. You'll want a way to flatten the stones, and you'll probably want a holder/base like the one you linked. Some stones come with a base; for example the Shapton Pro (Ha No Kuromaku) have holding cases that double as bases. Suehiro has a similar type of universal stone holder that's a single rod design instead of double like the generic one you linked. Seems like lots of people like it, but it's about 2x the price. And don't get one of those random Chinese brands off Amazon; stick with a brand that's known to make quality stones.
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May 13, 2018 11:02
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You only truly need flat stones for single bevel, razors, or chissels. It's easy to dump a lot of money into rocks. I think you should see if you enjoy sharpening first and a combo is the cheapest way of doing that. The king 1k is a fine stone for the price. I got a restaurant brick sized one for 40. If you slurry up some mud first it isn't slow cutting. The mud doesn't feel as good as others but isn't bad and it's sound isn't gross or grating. You can permasoak them too. The red brick on cktg is better, however I haven't tried the newest king 1k formula (there are like 4 now, avoid the 12$ ones)
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May 13, 2018 13:17
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I need to make a knife set. I saw something like Chinese cleaver, victorinox pairing knife and gyuto of my choice?
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May 18, 2018 18:51
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Gyuto and paring knife are required, but feel free to sub any other all purpose knife for the gyuto, like a Chinese cleaver. From there, consider what you cook most often. Fish? Filet knife. Roasts or bone in meat? Boner. Etc. You can do almost everything with just two knives, so anything extra should really count. Or just throw a dozen knives in a roll and hope for the best, you'll be covered for anything.
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May 18, 2018 19:00
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barkbell posted:I need to make a knife set. I saw something like Chinese cleaver, victorinox pairing knife and gyuto of my choice? What SymmetryrtemmyS said. Also, if this is your first pair of knives I'd get the OP suggestions of Victorinox for both the chef knife and paring knife. They are good and cheap, and once you get a better idea of what you want from a knife you can buy something nicer. Though I would suggest going with the sheep's foot shape paring knife vs the spear point. I find the Sheep's foot shape more useful in a paring knife. Sheep's foot: https://www.amazon.com/Victorinox-Paring-Sheeps-Polypropylene-Handle/dp/B000BYLA36/ Spear Point: https://www.amazon.com/Victorinox-Paring-Knife-Straight-Spear/dp/B0019WXPQY/
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May 18, 2018 19:30
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Nah I’ve got a big rocker Mercer for a decade and it works alright but I wanted to try something less rocky. I do lots of vegetables, meat, fish whatever. I had a set of wustof classics but I gave them to my sister as a housewarming gift. I just wanted a sick $200 gyuto E: how’s the masamoto HC 240 or misono swedish barkbell fucked around with this message at 22:15 on May 18, 2018 |
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May 18, 2018 20:03
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.Z. posted:What SymmetryrtemmyS said. I would strongly recommend a Kuma chef's knife over a Victorinox. It has a bolster, but is otherwise great bang for buck. I agree that sheepsfoot paring knives are great, but I also find a lot of use for my bird's beak parer. Not a fan of spear points though, they just don't make much sense for most paring knife jobs.
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May 18, 2018 23:43
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