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heehee
Sep 5, 2012

haha wow i cant believe how lucky we got to win :D
they got credit warp ace in paper mario 64

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Inferior Third Season
Jan 15, 2005

I don't like how it is assumed that "accessing the credit sequence" is equivalent to "completing the game".

Like, in a lot of games, the last thing the credits sequence does is launch the title screen. That should mean whoever can access the title screen fastest should be the any% WR holder, according to the same logic.

I vastly prefer the older generally assumed concept of "final button press of the final boss fight or final dialog box" as the event to signify game completion.

I realize most of these things get split off into separate categories, but it still annoys me a bit.

heehee
Sep 5, 2012

haha wow i cant believe how lucky we got to win :D
shut up beyatch!

flatluigi
Apr 23, 2008

here come the planes

Inferior Third Season posted:

I don't like how it is assumed that "accessing the credit sequence" is equivalent to "completing the game".

Like, in a lot of games, the last thing the credits sequence does is launch the title screen. That should mean whoever can access the title screen fastest should be the any% WR holder, according to the same logic.

I vastly prefer the older generally assumed concept of "final button press of the final boss fight or final dialog box" as the event to signify game completion.

I realize most of these things get split off into separate categories, but it still annoys me a bit.

every speedrun category in every game is delineated by the community that runs it. there's some generic categories you see across games, but even where those stop and end is decided on by the community.

what this means is that if people are running a category they're the people who are both most directly affected by the choices about where the lines are drawn, and if they don't like it they'll just run a different category that they like better. alternatively, in some cases the category just ends up being dead and people will bring it up in the community and see if there's things that can be done to make the category more fun and populated. this is how you get stuff like save files that begin after an opening 10 minute cutscene, or that one game that had a community-accepted mod to make one item always drop since nobody wanted to run the game and have the run die to it not dropping

is this weird if you're not in the community? yeah or this conversation wouldn't keep coming up. should people care so much if they're not the people actively running the games and deciding on what makes poo poo fun for them? absolutely not


really though, if it makes you feel better, compare it to runs that also have an 'end point' that's not "the real end of the game," like the runs that stop when you pick up a specific item, or when you hit a certain score threshold, or hell even old standbys like individual level/one-lap runs. it's just a different marker of where the run ends, and that's fine

Inferior Third Season
Jan 15, 2005

I'm mostly talking about how somebody announces they've found a way to trigger credits, and it is generally regarded immediately as an acceptable way to claim the any% WR, and only later does the community maybe go back and make it a special category and add "no credit warping" to the any% category rules.

SeXReX
Jan 9, 2009

I drink, mostly.
And get mad at people on the internet


:emptyquote:
No one should play video games at all just to be safe

flatluigi
Apr 23, 2008

here come the planes

Inferior Third Season posted:

I'm mostly talking about how somebody announces they've found a way to trigger credits, and it is generally regarded immediately as an acceptable way to claim the any% WR, and only later does the community maybe go back and make it a special category and add "no credit warping" to the any% category rules.

i don't think i've seen a game where that 'later' hasn't been a conversation that starts immediately when the new trick gets found (since, yknow, it's a new trick). finding a credits warp is a prompt to refine what the "any%" category means, since by default it's always 'finish the game as fast as possible' and caveats get added as they get decided upon

if your complaint is more that everyone doesn't go 'gently caress off, that doesn't count, go away' as soon as it gets found, well, that's a lovely way to participate in a community

Inferior Third Season
Jan 15, 2005

SeXReX posted:

No one should play video games at all just to be safe
:hmmyes:

In other news, some guy is working on some new program that will display live head-to-head SMB1 speedruns on a single screen.

https://youtu.be/18fbp9H89Xg

Obviously, it can also display recorded runs, like this video shows. It seems he's also worked in a way to retroactively get the controller inputs from recorded sessions (even Miniland's, which was on a CRT).

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009



Credit warp categories for any game are usually interesting because it almost always involves some kind of bug-stacking and/or arbitrary code execution, which is just loving rad as hell from a technical perspective, because it's basically the same thing as when hackers use chain exploits ROP, remote execution, sandbox escapes, privilege escalation, and others.

Does it make for a great viewing experience? The first time, if it's properly explained by a runner who knows their poo poo, it can be great.
After that the novelty kind of wears off, unless you're insanely into a particular game or until someone else finds a new way to do it and can elucidate the differences.

Boogalo
Jul 8, 2012

Meep Meep




My favorite Any% credits warps are FF6 and Dragon view. Both take around an hour so there's still a bunch of game you have to play. In one case you still have to execute everything properly and time an input for it to work, and in the other case you have to do all of that and also get incalculably lucky.

Shimrra Jamaane
Aug 10, 2007

Obscure to all except those well-versed in Yuuzhan Vong lore.
It’s literally a matter of time in OoT before they figure out how to warp to the credits by leaving Link’s tree house.

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012
Also the Dragon View one can overheat the cart so badly that it can cause permanent damage. And has only been successfully completed once afaik.

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S

fool of sound posted:

Also the Dragon View one can overheat the cart so badly that it can cause permanent damage. And has only been successfully completed once afaik.

PJ has completed the credits warp via Grand Memory Clobber twice, but as far as I know only one of them was deliberate.

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012

King of Solomon posted:

PJ has completed the credits warp via Grand Memory Clobber twice, but as far as I know only one of them was deliberate.

One of them was on a flashcart, which apparently has a better track record of not crashing that original hardware.

Boogalo
Jul 8, 2012

Meep Meep




He's done it a bunch on emulator but only once on actual hardware.

Dragon view even erased the saves of his drakken cart when inserted and booted up after a clobber to sanitize system memory.

It's pure chaos.

Boogalo fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Feb 20, 2021

voiceless anal fricative
May 6, 2007

It does occasionally happen that a category that's great to watch changes and isnt good to watch anymore, which is a shame for viewers. It's usually when a route changes, especially to one that involves huge amounts of favourable RNG to complete, or heaps of unskippable cutscene. But that kinda comes with the territory, they're called speedruns not execute-a-series-of-glitches-that-are-fun-to-watchruns

Carbon dioxide
Oct 9, 2012

bike tory posted:

It does occasionally happen that a category that's great to watch changes and isnt good to watch anymore, which is a shame for viewers. It's usually when a route changes, especially to one that involves huge amounts of favourable RNG to complete, or heaps of unskippable cutscene. But that kinda comes with the territory, they're called speedruns not execute-a-series-of-glitches-that-are-fun-to-watchruns

low% runs when they find a way to skip one more item but the way is incredibly annoying and tedious.

Mario Odyssey minimal captures comes to mind.

big deal
Sep 10, 2017

Carbon dioxide posted:

low% runs when they find a way to skip one more item but the way is incredibly annoying and tedious.

https://youtu.be/gXjYs7-rydA

Tweezer Reprise
Aug 6, 2013

It hasn't got six strings, but it's a lot of fun.
i do think that fun and wonder is the ultimate point of this exercise, and the fact that we care about beating games quickly is the pursuit of those two things, so i like categories that aren't exactly optimal given new insights but are still enjoyable to watch. not that we shouldn't pursue said insights, but the value is different than just forcing a category that is no longer enjoyable

Shimrra Jamaane
Aug 10, 2007

Obscure to all except those well-versed in Yuuzhan Vong lore.
I completely lost interest in OoT speed running when they figured out how to do this poo poo with messing with the game’s code. It’s not a coincidence that OoT has slowly plummeted from its heights as a speed game in 2012 as more and more complicated game breaking tricks have been discovered that basically require you to have an encyclopedic knowledge of how the game works.

heehee
Sep 5, 2012

haha wow i cant believe how lucky we got to win :D
there's a billion oot categories that have various restrictions dude. it's still a hoiype as balls speedgame

SeXReX
Jan 9, 2009

I drink, mostly.
And get mad at people on the internet


:emptyquote:

heehee posted:

there's a billion oot categories that have various restrictions dude. it's still a hoiype as balls speedgame

yet still no Cow in house RTA

heehee
Sep 5, 2012

haha wow i cant believe how lucky we got to win :D
Cow in House SRM | Cow in House No SRM

site
Apr 6, 2007

Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch
It's funny because the only oot category that I haven't seen that I still want to is just running the game pure vanilla as fast as possible, not even nmg just no tricks whatsoever in the intended dungeon order, but no one has done that for like 15 years

heehee
Sep 5, 2012

haha wow i cant believe how lucky we got to win :D
https://www.speedrun.com/oot#Glitchless

site
Apr 6, 2007

Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch
Perhaps you have should view the rules and take a look at the extensive list of allowed tricks in glitchless before posting a link as if I have not seen it

SeXReX
Jan 9, 2009

I drink, mostly.
And get mad at people on the internet


:emptyquote:

heehee posted:

Cow in House SRM | Cow in House No SRM

I think they said during the hundo reroute that there might actually be a few frames of cow in house included in one of the setups

Tweezer Reprise
Aug 6, 2013

It hasn't got six strings, but it's a lot of fun.
i think the ACE stuff is insanely fascinating in its own right and i think in certain games and contexts can also constitute a fun speedrun but i think more accessible choices should be prioritized!

heehee
Sep 5, 2012

haha wow i cant believe how lucky we got to win :D

site posted:

Perhaps you have should view the rules and take a look at the extensive list of allowed tricks in glitchless before posting a link as if I have not seen it

:qq:

DEEP STATE PLOT
Aug 13, 2008

Yes...Ha ha ha...YES!



for most games i want a decent mix of glitches and regular play but for oot specifically i want runs to be as busted and bonkers as possible and i am endlessly pleased that basically every year some new weird major poo poo is found and incorporated into at least one category

SeXReX
Jan 9, 2009

I drink, mostly.
And get mad at people on the internet


:emptyquote:
obviously more games need to have Nintendo Power% like Super Metroid

site
Apr 6, 2007

Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch

I don't really understand what you're trying to do here. I lamented a run that no longer exists, you posted something incorrect, and now your qqing because I told you it was incorrect

Solarin
Nov 15, 2007

rename all glitchless categories to glitchlite so this never happens again

voiceless anal fricative
May 6, 2007

give me OOT cow in house dank% please, I don't care what SRM or ACE shenanigans are involved

SeXReX
Jan 9, 2009

I drink, mostly.
And get mad at people on the internet


:emptyquote:

bike tory posted:

give me OOT cow in house dank% please, I don't care what SRM or ACE shenanigans are involved

Getting the cow in the house and then duplicating it to have 420 of them?

dirby
Sep 21, 2004


Helping goons with math

Inferior Third Season posted:

:hmmyes:

In other news, some guy is working on some new program that will display live head-to-head SMB1 speedruns on a single screen.

https://youtu.be/18fbp9H89Xg

Obviously, it can also display recorded runs, like this video shows. It seems he's also worked in a way to retroactively get the controller inputs from recorded sessions (even Miniland's, which was on a CRT).

This was really amazing to watch. Embedding so more people see it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18fbp9H89Xg

LordSaturn
Aug 12, 2007

sadly unfunny

is summoningsalt fash or what, that's like the only speedrunning content I regularly consume

DEEP STATE PLOT
Aug 13, 2008

Yes...Ha ha ha...YES!



LordSaturn posted:

is summoningsalt fash or what, that's like the only speedrunning content I regularly consume

nope he's good

you should also check out lowest percent

Tweezer Reprise
Aug 6, 2013

It hasn't got six strings, but it's a lot of fun.
someone comes in to ask a question like that literally every other page and i changed my mind, maybe we should just have a canceled spreadsheet in the OP, actually, so that people can stop mulling over it all the time

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site
Apr 6, 2007

Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch

timp posted:

https://twitter.com/XQEWSME/status/1362429766658367490

Very glad that wqqqqwrt doesn't have this record anymore :unsmith:

It makes me feel a little better, hearing his commentary in the first ten minutes about how he's kinda starting to hate grinding this game and wants to quit for a while, that it ends with a wr

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