Speedrunning thread 3.5: After 25 years plug in a second controller to save 20 seconds

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Speedrunning thread 3.5: After 25 years plug in a second controller to save 20 seconds

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Tweezer Reprise: Aug 6, 2013; It hasn't got six strings, but it's a lot of fun.

In the frame-perfect, subpixel-perfect world of Super Mario Bros. speedrunning, Kosmic has achieved a 4:55.6x, which has often been speculated to be where the category dies (though he doesn't think so himself). Thusly, he drops the mic on any% because the frames left to save are some bullshit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wR8x5b_ExM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDGmFveY2IA

e: ah gently caress already mentioned. analysis video is choice though

Tweezer Reprise fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Jan 29, 2020

# ¿ Jan 29, 2020 18:28

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 15:29

Tweezer Reprise: Aug 6, 2013; It hasn't got six strings, but it's a lot of fun.

Venuz Patrol posted:

does he have something set up to automatically record splits? i don't see how else he would get accurate times when the optimization is getting so specific

also, he uses a foot pedal to split, just for posterity

# ¿ Feb 2, 2020 02:29

Tweezer Reprise: Aug 6, 2013; It hasn't got six strings, but it's a lot of fun.

ilmucche posted:

Been watching some gdq videos and as much fun as the mario maker races are I think I prefer the kaizo runs more. They have a lot more humour and feel a bit less hectic.

what are your faves? i liked the GPW2 one.
e: sorry for doublepost

# ¿ Feb 2, 2020 02:33

Tweezer Reprise: Aug 6, 2013; It hasn't got six strings, but it's a lot of fun.

e: nm, don't really wanna prolong bad vibes in the thread

Tweezer Reprise fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Apr 2, 2020

# ¿ Apr 2, 2020 20:52

Tweezer Reprise: Aug 6, 2013; It hasn't got six strings, but it's a lot of fun.

Tha Cancel Grid

# ¿ Apr 13, 2020 21:06

Tweezer Reprise: Aug 6, 2013; It hasn't got six strings, but it's a lot of fun.

Here's the vid, in case you missed it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWLyvZwgD_0

# ¿ Apr 21, 2020 17:15

Tweezer Reprise: Aug 6, 2013; It hasn't got six strings, but it's a lot of fun.

i understand the impulse for purity in mind and action (or maybe 'consistency' is a better word) and i don't want to come off as saying anything like 'sometimes it's okay to champion nazis if they play video games good' or 'it doesn't matter' because it absolutely does matter, and nazis and bigots should always be hosed off and excluded!

but god, when the first question whenever a new person is discussed in here is 'are they a nazi', the atmosphere gets incredibly exhausting, incredibly quickly

e: bad take but i'll keep it here

Tweezer Reprise fucked around with this message at 00:07 on May 31, 2020

# ¿ May 30, 2020 23:45

Tweezer Reprise: Aug 6, 2013; It hasn't got six strings, but it's a lot of fun.

i guess my privilege is showing just a teensy bit, in that i do tend to view it as an abstraction like that

# ¿ May 31, 2020 00:00

Tweezer Reprise: Aug 6, 2013; It hasn't got six strings, but it's a lot of fun.

Kosmic is speedrunning every mainline mario game today!
https://twitch.tv/kosmic
https://horaro.org/mmm/schedule

# ¿ Jul 31, 2020 17:12

Tweezer Reprise: Aug 6, 2013; It hasn't got six strings, but it's a lot of fun.

Inferior Third Season posted:

What did he do compared to kosmik's run that shaved 0.2 seconds off?

saved the 8-2 framerule!

Tweezer Reprise fucked around with this message at 05:19 on Nov 14, 2020

# ¿ Nov 14, 2020 05:14

Tweezer Reprise: Aug 6, 2013; It hasn't got six strings, but it's a lot of fun.

what's wrong with emu? leaderboards allow it for a reason lol

# ¿ Nov 16, 2020 02:01

Tweezer Reprise: Aug 6, 2013; It hasn't got six strings, but it's a lot of fun.

If I had to lodge a minor complaint with SS's stuff, I think he could really use some flair in his scriptwriting. Plus, I know his are videos about playing video games fast on the internet, but his videos so often just feel like a chain of "they found this trick, and then this guy used it and took the WR, and then the other guy took it back, and here's their avatar to remind you which guy I'm talking about" delivered really dryly. I know they're a different sort of thing, but I tend to like Bismuth's videos in this vein, they flow a lot nicer to me.

I'm not sure what you would do that could massively improve this aspect, given the paltry material to build a compelling narrative from, but some better wording/phrasing/pacing could do a significant amount imo

# ¿ Jan 1, 2021 19:24

Tweezer Reprise: Aug 6, 2013; It hasn't got six strings, but it's a lot of fun.

DoctorWhat posted:

For one, by focusing on WR holders, he glosses over the collaborative aspects - glitch hunters and less successful runners who nonetheless pushed each game's times down in ways that the leaderboards don't reflect. It's a very "great man of history" approach to speedrunning.

That hits the nail on the head. Summoning Salt's approach at times almost approximates watching someone else jostle an Excel spreadsheet, dragging rows up and down, but there's so much more to the story of each game, technical or otherwise. Thing is, he's done that sort of focus in a lot of his vids, it just seems slightly inconsistent imo.

Reminds me of AverageTrey's video about Sunshine's WR history, which seemed richer on average. Helps that he was deeply embedded in the community and actually held said WR, I suppose.

# ¿ Jan 2, 2021 03:53

Tweezer Reprise: Aug 6, 2013; It hasn't got six strings, but it's a lot of fun.

I know Kosmic said the .646 was going to be beaten, and I believed him, but I can't believe less than a year out it's in third place, somehow. There are now nine people with a 4:55. Count 'em!

# ¿ Jan 3, 2021 10:00

Tweezer Reprise: Aug 6, 2013; It hasn't got six strings, but it's a lot of fun.

Johnny Joestar posted:

he's the current generic streamer that 12 y/o kids are obsessed with on twitter

predictably he's also weaponized said army of tweens against the speedrun.com mods which is a very 2010s/2020s phenomenon and i'm here for it

# ¿ Jan 3, 2021 20:40

Tweezer Reprise: Aug 6, 2013; It hasn't got six strings, but it's a lot of fun.

Shimrra Jamaane posted:

The speedrunning community has been good at spotting cheaters since runs were submitted via VHS recording being physically mailed around. How the gently caress does anyone expect to get away with stuff nowadays?

google "survivorship bias"

# ¿ Feb 11, 2021 17:26

Tweezer Reprise: Aug 6, 2013; It hasn't got six strings, but it's a lot of fun.

i do think that fun and wonder is the ultimate point of this exercise, and the fact that we care about beating games quickly is the pursuit of those two things, so i like categories that aren't exactly optimal given new insights but are still enjoyable to watch. not that we shouldn't pursue said insights, but the value is different than just forcing a category that is no longer enjoyable

# ¿ Feb 20, 2021 23:29

Tweezer Reprise: Aug 6, 2013; It hasn't got six strings, but it's a lot of fun.

i think the ACE stuff is insanely fascinating in its own right and i think in certain games and contexts can also constitute a fun speedrun but i think more accessible choices should be prioritized!

# ¿ Feb 21, 2021 00:29

Tweezer Reprise: Aug 6, 2013; It hasn't got six strings, but it's a lot of fun.

someone comes in to ask a question like that literally every other page and i changed my mind, maybe we should just have a canceled spreadsheet in the OP, actually, so that people can stop mulling over it all the time

# ¿ Feb 21, 2021 02:21

Tweezer Reprise: Aug 6, 2013; It hasn't got six strings, but it's a lot of fun.

It�s a really unfortunate situation yeah

# ¿ Feb 26, 2021 04:42

Tweezer Reprise: Aug 6, 2013; It hasn't got six strings, but it's a lot of fun.

Here's a question, then: how do runners know exactly what behavior is intended, what was unanticipated, and what lies in that liminal space between of "eh, it'll do"? Have the developers spoken at length to this level of detail? Seems like bullet lists like these are more judgement calls than anything.

# ¿ Mar 9, 2021 05:25

Tweezer Reprise: Aug 6, 2013; It hasn't got six strings, but it's a lot of fun.

site posted:

From my understanding, the community has literally gone line by line through the assembly code for red/blue

But that doesn't explain whether certain behavior was intended or not, it just defines what that behavior is. For a lot of these, it seems kinda gray-area. It's a philosophical question, I suppose.

# ¿ Mar 9, 2021 07:00

Tweezer Reprise: Aug 6, 2013; It hasn't got six strings, but it's a lot of fun.

heehee posted:

holy fuckin poo poo niftski just got a 4:54 in super mario bros

holy poo poo

# ¿ Apr 7, 2021 23:12

Tweezer Reprise: Aug 6, 2013; It hasn't got six strings, but it's a lot of fun.

Kchama posted:

Excuse loving me? Is there a video where I can watch this miracle?

He's still streaming, he got it ~40 minutes ago. https://twitch.tv/Niftski

# ¿ Apr 7, 2021 23:18

Tweezer Reprise: Aug 6, 2013; It hasn't got six strings, but it's a lot of fun.

the no U+D/L+R TAS is only like .65 seconds faster!

# ¿ Apr 8, 2021 04:28

Tweezer Reprise: Aug 6, 2013; It hasn't got six strings, but it's a lot of fun.

I mean, it seems within the realm of possibility to take it somewhere to have it actually engraved, no?

# ¿ Apr 10, 2021 03:38

Tweezer Reprise: Aug 6, 2013; It hasn't got six strings, but it's a lot of fun.

ArfJason posted:

i imagine after the quintillion channel that made 1 million subs they were like you know we could make these cheaper

I meant on summoning salt�s part! Since it�s pretty clearly important to him, nothing wrong with a little personal flair right?

# ¿ Apr 11, 2021 07:14

Tweezer Reprise: Aug 6, 2013; It hasn't got six strings, but it's a lot of fun.

oldskool posted:

i mean it totally is but it's also a p dick move to send a some-assembly-required plaque

no doubt about it! no post i ever make on this site or anywhere else should ever be interpreted as any defense, milquetoast or otherwise, of youtube

# ¿ Apr 12, 2021 03:37

Tweezer Reprise: Aug 6, 2013; It hasn't got six strings, but it's a lot of fun.

you can say the stuff you saw him do was bad and makes him a bad person without making up stuff he didn't do

# ¿ Sep 23, 2021 18:08

Tweezer Reprise: Aug 6, 2013; It hasn't got six strings, but it's a lot of fun.

From what I understand the TAS block at GDQ is a lot of people�s primary exposure to the format!

# ¿ Nov 1, 2021 04:55

Tweezer Reprise: Aug 6, 2013; It hasn't got six strings, but it's a lot of fun.

actually it's still fun to watch how it goes in the early going

# ¿ Nov 5, 2021 02:05

Tweezer Reprise: Aug 6, 2013; It hasn't got six strings, but it's a lot of fun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrt1HiTTvrU

# ¿ Nov 6, 2021 18:59

Tweezer Reprise: Aug 6, 2013; It hasn't got six strings, but it's a lot of fun.

WrightOfWay posted:

How far off is that from the TAS now?

I believe the RTA TAS is 4:54.265, so according to my math without actually checking, there are 39 frames left to save.

# ¿ Nov 6, 2021 19:06

Tweezer Reprise: Aug 6, 2013; It hasn't got six strings, but it's a lot of fun.

Carbon dioxide posted:

I am not entirely sure what is going on. Summoning Salt said 4:54.26 is the best possible, but the TAS on tasvideos.org says it sits at 4:54.03 RTA timing.
http://tasvideos.org/1715M.html

Is one of them wrong?

Basically the NES will accept both the left and right directions being held at the same time as valid input (the D-pad is secretly just an array of four buttons electronically), and this is useful (I believe for fast acceleration? I don't recall specifics) in an emulator/TAS context. You can't physically hold down both directions at the same time without modifying your controller though, so there is also a category for TASes (the RTA rules/"no left+right" category) where that input is disallowed, and that is the time it makes sense to compare RTA runs to. Left+Right input is also, obviously, disallowed on RTA runs played on an emulator.

4:54.03 is the any% TAS time
4:54.26 is the RTA rules TAS time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NYSVV5lAWg

(TASes time from power on, as opposed to RTA runs which time from the frame when the '400' first appears onscreen)

Tweezer Reprise fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Nov 6, 2021

# ¿ Nov 6, 2021 19:19

Tweezer Reprise: Aug 6, 2013; It hasn't got six strings, but it's a lot of fun.

I mean, the sensible thing to do would be to only use 1.01 if you were going to be such a jerkoff about it, right? But no!

# ¿ Nov 21, 2021 16:07

Tweezer Reprise: Aug 6, 2013; It hasn't got six strings, but it's a lot of fun.

at this point couldn�t you just run through all the permutations of button presses for X number of frames to see if any end the game quicker? mathematically prove the shortest speedrun by brute force

# ¿ Dec 2, 2021 17:32

Tweezer Reprise: Aug 6, 2013; It hasn't got six strings, but it's a lot of fun.

Oh, I didn't even think about the use of the second controller. Right, that makes sense.

# ¿ Dec 2, 2021 18:45

Tweezer Reprise: Aug 6, 2013; It hasn't got six strings, but it's a lot of fun.

Nemo2342 posted:

This is now relevant again

37!

# ¿ Dec 3, 2021 16:34

Tweezer Reprise: Aug 6, 2013; It hasn't got six strings, but it's a lot of fun.

it's an impossibly smaller impossibility! the difference between you and the diameter of betelgeuse. Math is cruel

# ¿ Dec 3, 2021 21:48

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 15:29

Tweezer Reprise: Aug 6, 2013; It hasn't got six strings, but it's a lot of fun.

the novelty is fully gone, it's purely just sort of a kooky exercise in self-sacrifice now. not to psychoanalyze anyone in particular but i imagine there's pressure to do stunts like this for audience-building/careerist purposes which is bad and not good

# ¿ Dec 7, 2021 20:21

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Speedrunning thread 3.5: After 25 years plug in a second controller to save 20 seconds

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