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Tonetta posted:yeah I mean it's okay but taking it to the heart is a net negative. unless you can exhaust down to 1 full hand after getting pumped full of status cards AND don't already have an infinite, it's just worse than not taking it. it would help slightly against the time lord in that circumstance, which I took Choke for (acrobat into choke looped in this build) Ehh if I have either 2-3 card draw manipulators/retain effects I can usually add it starting in the second half of act 1 and then reliably pop it off every 2-3 turns. Then it's just a race to get it off ever 1 turn or even twice in a turn and use that to steamroll act 2 and get a huge advantage to steamroll act 3. Even then it is still just a novelty act against the heart, although I've dropped ~250 against the heart in A20 in 4 turns with it But I also got it off 4 times vs Bronze Tomato before hyperbeam yet still lost the fight which probably took another 500-1000 hours for me to get past emotionally to the point where I started letting it into my decks on a trial basis. I recently had a 5 run sample where an early (once floor 0) dramatic entrance twice paved a road to a heartkill, so that card and I are finally good again. Ironically, Choke is the Silent card I never, ever take outside of a potion option Drunk Nerds fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Apr 19, 2024 |
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Apr 19, 2024 02:30
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Pander posted:Really the big problem with grand finale is that conceptually it's a card that requires some level of card manipulation that makes it too hard to use in act 1, and by the time you hit act 3 you probably have an engine of death that doesn't need it or a deck not constructed to make it viable. It's only useful for certain deck types in act 2 (let's just go ahead and say it, it's for killing slavers). the big problem with grand finale is that it sucks.
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Apr 19, 2024 07:31
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Grand Finale is one of the few cards that's worse than a basic Strike or Defend. It's on par with a curse on fast I want to remove it from my deck after a transform.
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Apr 19, 2024 07:33
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I think I've voluntarily picked choke once, when I had a bunch of shivs and energy but no real damage scaling. It was still kinda bad iirc. It really shouldn't cost 2 energy. Reduce the numbers a little bit and make it 1 energy and I'll pick it occasionally.
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Apr 19, 2024 08:56
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Zore posted:Ironclad made a deal with a demon to be the strongest in his clan that ended up with the demon killing his clan. In the spire for vengeance.
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Apr 19, 2024 09:38
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Zephro posted:I mean he should really be taking vengeance on himself lol 
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Apr 19, 2024 10:13
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I love grand finale and used to take it all the time, but it requires a *kinda* specific type of deck. Someone mentioned it earlier but eviscerate does 90% of what you want grand finale to do with the same deck. Buuuut, I think trying to get it to work is good practice for how to build discard synergy. It teaches you how much draw/discard you can get away with, gives you a sense on how fast you can move through your deck with the cards you have, how much you need to remove, etc.
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Apr 19, 2024 12:15
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Zephro posted:I mean he should really be taking vengeance on himself lol I doubt he'd appreciate that suggestion. He's the ironclad, not the ironyclad!
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Apr 19, 2024 12:22
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Is the idea that he went to the Spire for vengeance actually supported anywhere? I can't think of anything within the Spire that resembles the demon or even anything that seems linked to it other than the Ironclad's own cards.
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Apr 19, 2024 12:26
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playing ironclad drives me nuts. I’ve beaten the heart with silent and defect multiple times but my ironclad is stuck at 15. the only build I can ever make work on him is corruption/dead branch. usually make it to act 3 and take a shitload of damage from the head or Tangela and the run turns sour.
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Apr 19, 2024 15:01
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As far as I know, the best look we get at any character's motivation is from the Sensory Stone event, which has this for Ironclad:quote:FEAR. The only other glimpse into motives is on the character screen, but that's really only for Watcher, who "has come to 'Evaluate' the Spire." Ironclad is "The remaining soldier of the Ironclads. Sold his soul to harness demonic energies."
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Apr 19, 2024 15:49
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Ghislaine of YOSPOS posted:playing ironclad drives me nuts. I’ve beaten the heart with silent and defect multiple times but my ironclad is stuck at 15. the only build I can ever make work on him is corruption/dead branch. usually make it to act 3 and take a shitload of damage from the head or Tangela and the run turns sour. But yeah, try playing more aggressively than you would on the other two. You also can't go too far wrong with picking up every FNP you see, a Dark Embrace, and all the cards with "exhaust" written on them. That's another tip actually - don't be afraid of exhausting cards. It makes your deck smaller, meaning you can play the non-exhausted stuff more often. It is possible to die by exhausting all your good cards but it's harder than you think.
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Apr 19, 2024 15:52
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Zephro posted:I remember a useful mindset switch when I started doing higher ascensions on Ironclad, which was to take much less block than you think you'll need and rely on killing stuff fast to stay alive. You can go much more attack heavy on him than you can on either Silent or Defect. Partly that's thanks to Burning Blood, which gives a huge amount of sustain. You also take less damage when you end fights quickly. The hardest part ironclad is imo balancing the need to take damage cards without slowing down too much with too many damage commons. You survive act 1 only, die in act 2 because you're just too slow. The easy part is snatching up any dark embraces that come your way. Beyond that, whirlwind or immolation are great AoE options. Also, my advice is try to always have a couple hundred gold going into any store in case medkit is there. Medkit enables so many shenanigans with IC, my fav being turning Power Through from an A- card to S-tier.
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Apr 19, 2024 16:15
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I've had four consecutive heart kills (Silent A6 and A7 and Defect A7 and A8). I'm feeling rather proud of this streak I'm on. When I started a new file I cycled through characters (clad, silent, defect, watcher, repeat). I had a run of consecutive heart kills from Watcher A0 ending on Watcher A2, probably because I was up too late and playing sloppy. A3 is where I first noticed the difficulty creep. Starting this game over is one of the most interesting video game experiences I've ever had. I've also been turning on Baalorlord almost every night while I do the evening kitchen chores. This game is so good and I got into at the point in my life most well suited to hunkering down with one video game and learning the hell out of it. All of my gaming time since December has gone into this game and I don't know when that'll change. I've never spent this much time focused on a single game. The other times I've done this were Binding of Isaac, Monster Hunter Rise, and Stardew, the most of which was MHR, but by now I've blown past that with StS. How do you all manage your gaming time? Do you try to play other stuff or are we all busy adults that have embraced the spire with our limited time?
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Apr 19, 2024 18:01
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Wildtortilla posted:I've had four consecutive heart kills (Silent A6 and A7 and Defect A7 and A8). I'm feeling rather proud of this streak I'm on. I tend to play Spire almost ... exclusively. Nearly three years now. I've never had this experience with a game before. It's easily the best game I've ever played in my life. But, when switching to action-based stuff, I still run some Cuphead too. I've deviated and ... finally played through Celeste recently. I played a few runs of Monster Train and started to understand it. However, most of the time if I'm playing another game I'm usually thinking "man, I sure wish I was playing Slay right now".
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Apr 19, 2024 18:37
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Yeah spire is really fulfilling and hard to pass up for other things, and I have really good games waiting to be played :x And I just cracked open Downfall and unlocked all the characters and I'm addicted to Snecko and want to do more Collector runs, but also want to play everything to get all the unlocks done It's a good problem to have but drat, what is it about this game? My best friend did a similar fixation but with Spelunky
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Apr 19, 2024 19:38
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The Spire board game has arrived in my hands, it seems pretty great at first glance. Trying to round up a few mates to sit down for like five hours to play through it is gonna take a while, but I'll report back. It has locked packs for unlockable cards and ascensions and act IV. Why does the Act IV boss deck have as many cards as acts 1-3 combined? I am excited to find out.
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Apr 19, 2024 19:57
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I got mine, too, and was impressed by the number of cards and the quality of everything - well, except the add on for the merchant's mat - it seems inferior to the cardboard version to me. Spent like three hours putting cards into sleeves with my partner, and I'm excited to play it this weekend. Feels good to have everything sleeved and sorted and in the little slots they provided, though! Damned thing weighs around ten pounds though, it's crazy.
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Apr 20, 2024 06:30
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Yeah it’s easily the second heaviest board game I own (the first is Scythe with all of its expansions and metal coins and everything packed into a single box) Sleeves as a game mechanic is not something I’ve seen before (it’s how upgraded cards get handled) Bless every board game that has an organizer built in to the box by default, but it’s definitely a little rough getting everything packed neatly when it’s sleeved but there’s still the sealed card packs in there that can’t neatly distribute out Also the first time I’ve seen a game provide a clean way to “””save””” your progress mid-game Do you know what the four character compartments in the upper clear tray are for? Is that just for stashing the save-game baggies?
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Apr 20, 2024 14:38
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regarding grand finale,,,ixo posted:
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Apr 20, 2024 16:13
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I think it's for stashing the character bags. Unfortunately, they don't really fit well regardless - it's kind of wasted space it seems to me. Not like the bags take up much space regardless. Anyone play it yet? It looks really fun, but haven't had a chance to sit down with it. My partner was going to set it up this morning to surprise me, but wasn't able to get to it due to my parents stopping by.
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Apr 20, 2024 19:36
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ixo posted:regarding grand finale,,, hah, I assume nightmare is one of the cards in the exhaust pile and you weren't risking the most ironically embarassing opening hand of all time?
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Apr 20, 2024 23:13
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Sockser posted:Also the first time I’ve seen a game provide a clean way to “””save””” your progress mid-game It's not common, but it's not unique to STSTBG either. Hoplomachus Victorum is a solo game that is actually quite reminiscent of Spire, except you have open world movement and the combats are gladiator fights on one of eight hex grid arenas. It takes six hours to play a full game, so it was designed to be played across four sessions and has both instructions and specialised components for storing your game state.
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Apr 21, 2024 16:26
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If you want to preview the board game, there are free versions for both Tabletop Simulator and STS in their respective Steam Workshops. The STS mod is less clunky, but the TTS mod is more true to the boardgame and less glitchy (gameplay-wise, it's easier to make a TTS mod of a board game than to make STS play nicely with a board game's rules). It's good poo poo, so far! It feels like STS, but they retooled basically everything to be more tabletop-friendly (fewer counters, lower numbers all around, etc.). It's a new STS experience that also feels completely familiar. I love that it's co-op, too. Anyway, I'm enjoying the previews and I'm hella looking forward to getting my physical copy and hosting some game nights.
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Apr 21, 2024 19:41
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Main tip for IC is that evolve is low key one of his best powers since upgraded it turns status/curse cards draw positive. Combine with exhaust powers and its great fun.
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Apr 22, 2024 12:03
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massive spider posted:Main tip for IC is that evolve is low key one of his best powers since upgraded it turns status/curse cards draw positive. Combine with exhaust powers and its great fun. Evolve does ball in so many ways.
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Apr 22, 2024 20:20
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EconDad posted:Evolve does ball in so many ways. I remember seeing Baalorlord putting status cards from the discard pile with stuff like headbutt to keep triggering Evolve+ and it blew my mind
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Apr 23, 2024 02:27
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Drunk Nerds posted:I remember seeing Baalorlord putting status cards from the discard pile with stuff like headbutt to keep triggering Evolve+ and it blew my mind It’s discovering things like this that keeps me coming back to the game. I remember thinking ‘ah ha!’ when I realised everything works on mechanisms to enact what the card says. Like Flex saying “Gain 2 Strength. At the end of this turn, lose 2 Strength.” Doesn’t literally mean “At the end of this turn, lose 2 Strength.”, it really means “at the end of this turn, apply a Strength Down debuff”, so if you have e.g. artifact or play orange pellets you can keep the strength. And then dying horribly to Blasphemy because ‘die next term’ is technically coded as a buff. and then realising that you don’t technically die next term, you take a huge amount of damage, so two intangible stacks or a well timed Incense Burner will negate even that. I love the richness of this game.
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Apr 23, 2024 02:41
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Speaking of richness, my 4 game Silent streak ended vs A10 Tim. Specifically I learned exactly the implications of that jerk gaining strength when he does his time stuff. I anticipating playing my 12th card, surviving with 1 hp, and ending the fight the following turn. But when I played that last card, my turn ended and his attack damage jumped up. I was toast. Now I will never forget* that Tim gains strength over the course of that fight. A rich lesson indeed. *lol
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Apr 23, 2024 03:22
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Drunk Nerds posted:I remember seeing Baalorlord putting status cards from the discard pile with stuff like headbutt to keep triggering Evolve+ and it blew my mind The game is so often... truthfully... about draw. "it is a card game after all" I say to myself... every few minutes or so when playing the game. Runic Cube is another one of those things that seemed so bad at first... but now a well-picked Runic Cube is a seriously powerful boss relic pick. It's got to be "right time" though, for it.
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Apr 23, 2024 05:39
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Drunk Nerds posted:I remember seeing Baalorlord putting status cards from the discard pile with stuff like headbutt to keep triggering Evolve+ and it blew my mind
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Apr 23, 2024 08:13
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Still waiting on my package, but I messed with STS: The Board Game in Tabletop Simulator last year, and played more tonight with the STS:TBG PC mod. I like the changes they made to streamline the game. It'll make it a better tabletop experience without needing to increment Ink Bottle and similar counters. Co-op is dope and I can't wait to have my game group over for a round. Cards have gotten a complete rework and generally feel more useful, which rebalances the game in a way that I think many would appreciate. The numbers have all been scaled way down, which simplifies power comparisons. Strike does 1 damage, Defend blocks 1 damage. That means nothing can be weaker than that (Claw, FTL, etc. deal at least 1), and anything more powerful is at least twice as powerful. This also makes upgrading a big deal, since that attack that is worth two Strikes upgrades to be worth four Strikes. Likewise, full damage mitigation is more important now that the smallest chip damage is 10% or more of your health.  If you have Tabletop Simulator, I suggest trying that instead of the STS mod, since its "actual board game pieces" nature means you can follow the game rules precisely and see all the information you're meant to see. Enemy behavior cards and poo poo. If you play the PC mod, I suggest reading and keeping handy a copy of the board game's manual, or else several gameplay changes won't be super obvious. There are also several little bugs with the mod and certain TBG rules. Still, I enjoyed the PC mod as a way to play some rounds quickly and get a better idea of how to build characters in TBG. It'd be a great mod in its own right, even if one never plays the board game. Game good. Can't wait until my physical copy arrives.
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Apr 23, 2024 08:29
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charging extra for a beta art deck is a pro strategy ngl
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Apr 23, 2024 08:33
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I was able to play the board game with my partner on Sunday night and a bit today. It's really a lot of fun but takes a big time investment. To be fair, a lot of that is my autistic partner - she thinks of every possible solution before playing her cards (the first time she played the PC game she won, but it took her over six hours). It took us about nine hours to complete all three acts, though act 3 was pretty fast and it was our first time playing the BG. The rebalances are interesting, since some cards become very different. Strength maxes at 8, but find weakness can give strength to the other player(s), so that can make for some interesting combos. Deck building is a bit harder - in your whole deck of card selections, you've got two of each common, one uncommon, and a single rare (you can unlock a second later). With shorter acts, you get fewer selections, too. Shops only show 3 random cards as well, rather than an attack, skill, power, etc. One thing I don't like is that there are fewer viable decks themes, since some are simplified away. Still, it's a lot of fun and I'd originally thought that my partner would play once for me and then probably never again and I'd be playing solo. Instead, she absolutely loves it, and we'll probably be playing this quite a bit going forward. Coop is honestly just an absolute blast, aside from waiting for her to just play her damned cards already, lol. Highly recommend, if it's still available in any way to pick up!
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Apr 23, 2024 08:46
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Red Oktober posted:
The thing that made my tiny mind explode was realising that the timing of artifact can let it block multiple versions of flex wearing off as both the initial effect and when that effect takes place at the end of turn are debuffs.
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Apr 23, 2024 08:47
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viriditas posted:The thing that made my tiny mind explode was realising that the timing of artifact can let it block multiple versions of flex wearing off as both the initial effect and when that effect takes place at the end of turn are debuffs. Oh. Like the application of the debuff and the execution of the debuff are two different events - that also makes sense!
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Apr 23, 2024 09:21
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Most relevant for something like Biased Cognition. Artifact first and you'll avoid the entire -1 focus per turn debuff, artifact after will only block one instance of the -1.
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Apr 23, 2024 12:43
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