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Slime
Jan 3, 2007


Got my first win with a Silent deck. I traded my starting relic (due to its relative weakness) for a random boss relic...and got the sneck eye. "poo poo." I thought. "I'm hosed."

But I managed to keep it together and built around the confusion effect of the sneck eye. I went for stuff like thousand cuts, wraith form, a whole ton of draw cards and...bullet time. Bullet time carried that run. See, since I was constantly confused, my card costs were randomized upon drawing them. Bullet time costs 3 energy, so it would only ever be made cheaper. So there I went, using my draw to fish for bullet time and then unloading my entire hand on enemies. And then since I had so much draw, it wasn't long before I was ready to do it again.

I am so very glad I didn't come up against the time eater as my final boss.

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Bleu
Jul 19, 2006



I'm glad that Dream Quest finally has a UI that can get people to play it.

Spikey
May 12, 2001

From my cold, dead hands!

Fellis posted:

What are some of the followup encounters? I donít think Iíve ever had golden idol or red mask when I needed them for their specific encounters.

The Golden Idol turns into the Bloody Idol which heals you for 5 every time you gain gold.

Insurrectionist
May 21, 2007


Just got Thread and Needle for the first time, jesus is this relic obscenely overpowered early on, free metalisize++ from turn 1 yes please

Slime
Jan 3, 2007


Insurrectionist posted:

Just got Thread and Needle for the first time, jesus is this relic obscenely overpowered early on, free metalisize++ from turn 1 yes please

Get it alongside orichalcum. Orichalcum gives you 6 block if you end your turn with no block, but it triggers /before/ plate armour from thread and needle does. So you get a free 11 block at the end of your turn to keep the low damage off of you, and you only need to defend on particularly hard hits.

Sokani
Jul 20, 2006

Bison


Got my first win off the back of the trinket that prevents you from discarding cards at the end of the turn. I always had what I needed built up from previous turns and could handle anything.

Insurrectionist
May 21, 2007


I haven't seen Orichalcum anywhere yet (not even when I couldn't afford it) but it's still pretty ridiculous. Only finished the first two parts before I had to quit now but I never went below 67 HP once so far. Only drawback is I haven't been able to prune my deck much yet, not gotten enough gold to do it every store and not gotten more than one non-store chance either. Still, I have most of my cards upgraded and a good poison package with block cards and some 0 mana cycles and I've tanked some 50 damage attacks already so should be fine. I also got the relic that transfers poison count when an enemy dies which makes groups a piece of cake.

Zerilan
Jan 11, 2008


Is there any controller support, or would I just need to use steam settings to make the mouse movement on analog stick and bind some mouse buttons to controller buttons?

ten_twentyfour
Jan 24, 2008



If this game was on mobile I would both never get any work done and never stop pooping.

Cinara
Jul 15, 2007


The Silent win streak continues, this time on the back of a Shiv deck that had almost no relevant relics. Started off with a Storm of Steel and grabbed two Accuracy and the one that gives a Shiv every turn. Built into a few more Shiv based cards and then added in a ton of draw cycling and a few of the cards that give more cards/energy when you discard them. Let me cycle my deck every turn and build up to a mega Storm of Steel turn that did 200+ damage end game.

Something like a Kunai or ANY of the relics that gave a bonus on discard would have made it straight insane, but I kept getting complete trash.

Beasteh
Feb 12, 2012

I'M QUESTIONING MY EXISTENCE AND THIS IDIOT JUST WANTS TO PEE OFF A WALL


Exhaust Ironclad is super fun

Corruption, Dark Embrace, Exhume, and all the exhaust synergy stuff is a ridiculous value machine when you get it running with stuff like Feel No Pain/Disarm/Seeing Red/Shockwave/double tap Rampage

Also see: Offering, Impervious, Reaper

PS an upgraded Armaments is a must have in any deck

Beasteh fucked around with this message at Jan 24, 2018 around 02:00

GrandpaPants
Feb 13, 2006

Free to roam the heavens in man's noble quest to investigate the weirdness of the universe!

Unless you can get an apotheosis. I love that card.

Cinara
Jul 15, 2007


Yea Apotheosis is nuts, there's several of the gold colorless cards that can completely make a deck. I can't remember the name but the one that does 10 damage if you play 5 cards in a turn is crazy strong for just about any Silent deck.

Beasteh
Feb 12, 2012

I'M QUESTIONING MY EXISTENCE AND THIS IDIOT JUST WANTS TO PEE OFF A WALL


Artelier
Jan 23, 2015


Took Silent for another run and easily won with a Poison Silent deck. All the draw, two of the bouncing poison things, a relic that increases poison by 1 each time you apply poison, two relics that increased actions and just cycle forever. Also removed every attack card, except for the free shivs I get each turn.

Zerilan
Jan 11, 2008


Lost track of time playing this poo poo all night after finally getting into it. Have one victory each as both Ironclad and Silent.

Fat Samurai
Feb 16, 2011

To go quickly is foolish. To go slowly is prudent. Not to go; that is wisdom.


I've been watching streams to see the amount of content available, and I'm very surprised at how little streamers thin their decks. I understand that relics are cool and good, but boardgaming has taught me that 9 mediocre and 1 good cards are way, way better than 10 mediocre and 2 good cards. Specially with the energy mechanic and how cheap removing cards at merchants is.

Insurrectionist
May 21, 2007


Part of it is people only playing cardgames through online CCGs like Hearthstone where deck size is static and not really something people engage with on a deckbuilding level (even in Magic you just cut poo poo until you have 60 in every practical deck even if you can take more so it feels kinda the same) so they don't think about how important it is.

But honestly part of it is just that it can get loving boring to have the same turn over and over and over and over again for dozens of fights every run.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


Fat Samurai posted:

but boardgaming has taught me that 9 mediocre and 1 good cards are way, way better than 10 mediocre and 2 good cards.
I don't understand why that is. If my choice early on as ironclad is buy double tap or remove a card I'm probably taking the tap. Is that incorrect/if so i don't get the reasoning.

Artelier
Jan 23, 2015


No Wave posted:

I don't understand why that is. If my choice early on as ironclad is buy double tap or remove a card I'm probably taking the tap. Is that incorrect/if so i don't get the reasoning.

You want the highest ratio of good cards to total deck size while keeping it as small as possible. The reason you want to keep the deck size small is so that you will always draw the cards you need, when you need it. You want your best (aka win condition) cards to keep coming back to you after every hand, and the bigger the deck, the longer it takes to guarantee to get back to you. Even a difference of one card can be a big deal between getting combo and having to hope for another round of cards, because some enemies (bosses/elites only, I think?) have the ability to deny you one card draw.

As for whether your example is correct, Double Tap could be your win condition (to combo with another strong cards), in which case taking it is correct. Even if you don't have a good card to combo it with there and then, you will be on the lookout for something good for it later down the line.

However, if you're middling/towards the end, and you see Double Tap, but you have nothing good to combo it with, then it's just clutter, and taking it would be a Bad Idea.

EDIT: Generally, I will always prioritise dropping cards (priority to Strikes over Defend, because Strikes are really weak over time but Defend can always help against strong attacks) over getting a great but not directly contributing to my gameplan card. I also like going on those ? spots and hoping for an event that discards a card. There's quite a few of them: faeries and falling down are the ones I've gotten the most.

Artelier fucked around with this message at Jan 24, 2018 around 12:12

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


Yeah but the post i quoted said mediocre: good 9:1 is way, way better than 10:2 which I didn't (don't) get.

I certainly understand that 6:4 is much better than 12:9 ofc because you'll pretty consistently have all the cards you want and no weird hands.

Artelier
Jan 23, 2015


Depends on your deck, but in my experience the mediocre:good 9:1 would be better than the 10:2, because there's two cards less. You get them both in two full turns, yes, but depending on how you built your deck, it can make a big difference.

Do any of those cards combo? The smaller the deck, the faster you hit the combo. In this game, you (typically) don't hang onto your hand at the end of the turn, so if your combo pieces are separated, then it's weaker. Cutting cards increases the chances.

If you cycle a lot too, then you'll be constantly drawing into the good cards/combo.

But! That's assuming the 2 good cards are equal to the strength of the 1 good card. It's hard to say. If those 2 cards produce an overpowered effect then despite the mediocrity of other cards that get in the way, I could see the 10:2 being better.

I think someone could probably do the Math explanation but I am not the person for that, sorry.

Insurrectionist
May 21, 2007


I don't understand how people thin their decks so much. I completed my Silent run and it was really easy because my deck was great. But I still had 4 of my lovely starting cards left in the deck (+ the non-lovely 0-mana goodness) at the final boss even though I hit up every single store I could find and avoided wasting gold on cards/relics throughout. And three of the cards I cut stuck around a decent way into the final climb too, so by the second boss I had only managed to remove a whole four of my starting cards total. Obviously with the right random events and relics it's very doable but I barely ever see those so it doesn't seem remotely viable to plan your run around that.

Fat Samurai
Feb 16, 2011

To go quickly is foolish. To go slowly is prudent. Not to go; that is wisdom.


No Wave posted:

Yeah but the post i quoted said mediocre: good 9:1 is way, way better than 10:2 which I didn't (don't) get.

I certainly understand that 6:4 is much better than 12:9 ofc because you'll pretty consistently have all the cards you want and no weird hands.
An exaggeration to illustrate a point, I didnít want to include a bunch of conditionals and exceptions while posting on a phone.

Point is, the streamers Iíve watched have no idea that thinning the deck is a good thing.

Minrad
Sep 26, 2007

I will never forget your smiles. I feel like I saved the world today. Just feeling like that is enough for me.



Yeah. If I have a dropkick and the merchant has double tap on sell, you better believe I'll pass on that opportunity to thin. But after that, and in In most other scenarios? Thinning is king. Even with that given example, the less cards in deck, the much more likely it is that I can set up an infinite turn combo. Too many cards and you can't even hold your entire deck in your hand to go infinite.

Lone Goat
Apr 16, 2003

When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.



No Wave posted:

Yeah but the post i quoted said mediocre: good 9:1 is way, way better than 10:2 which I didn't (don't) get.

The person that said that is bad at math, or exaggerating terribly.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly representing vanilla legends 1994-2014


Eraflure posted:

There are three different books.

Other followup stuff also includes the blood vial if you meet the blood enthusiasts.

Which can (and should) be ditched instead of losing 30% Max HP if you meet the vampires. Replacing all your Strikes with five higher damage versions that also restore health is really good.

Minrad
Sep 26, 2007

I will never forget your smiles. I feel like I saved the world today. Just feeling like that is enough for me.



Lone Goat posted:

The person that said that is bad at math, or exaggerating terribly.

in like 90% of scenarios, removing a card is better than adding a card. he's right.

IcePhoenix
Sep 18, 2005

You're tense, I'm calm. You apply excessive force, I
*snap*
OHHHH HECKUMS


Sometimes "deck thinning" can just be being really picky about adding cards, too. Just because you had one card that was awesome on a different run doesn't mean it'll be the same on another.

I had an awesome Ironclad run last night that came up one turn short on the final boss and it's entirely because I had multiple cards that I had taken earlier without thinking about how they worked with my current deck, because they had done so well for me on a different one.

Minrad
Sep 26, 2007

I will never forget your smiles. I feel like I saved the world today. Just feeling like that is enough for me.



Yeah, that's why it's important to distinguish the Good poo poo cards that are good in virtually all archetypes (mostly the strongest 2 attack cards and anything 1 power that cycles like backflip, shrug it off, etc) so you can nab them early and let them carry you for the first dozen floors until you can see what gimmicks you might be able to piece together, rather than trying to grab anything that might be key for anything and just hoping.

The GIG
Jun 28, 2011

Yeah, I say "Shit" a shit-ton of times. What of it, shithead?


With enough cantrips and draw, every deck is a thin deck when you think about it.

CharlieFoxtrot
Mar 26, 2007




Definitely make sure you have strictly better replacements before you thin out your basic cards though, my runs that bomb out on the first boss or midway through act 2 are usually because I focused on getting rid of basics but did not have powerful enough replacements to punch through tough enemies

please knock Mom!
Nov 9, 2011

Goddomme Jan!



nothing worse than ending up fighting the 2 muggers with a slow deck tbh

Lakitu7
Jul 10, 2001

Watch for spinys

Fighting the 3 cultists with a slow deck, perhaps?


To answer my own question from pages ago, this does run well on a Win8-era laptop with integrated graphics.

GrandpaPants
Feb 13, 2006

Free to roam the heavens in man's noble quest to investigate the weirdness of the universe!

Silent really needs a way to do AOE besides Corpse Explosion. I think I grab a Whirlwind every Ironclad run just for those loving 3 cultists.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


Diediedie and that dagger aoe that hit twice aren't too bad. It just hurts more having cards that don't contribute to your win con with silent. Ironchad can just load up on dece cards and win.

Lone Goat
Apr 16, 2003

When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.



Minrad posted:

in like 90% of scenarios, removing a card is better than adding a card. he's right.

A deck with 1 good card and 9 bad cards: goodness ratio 10%
A deck with 2 good cards and 10 bad cards: goodness ratio 16.7%

Reiterpallasch
Nov 3, 2010

strength accessories?

Fun Shoe

itt people going through the "why would you ever buy Chapel" > "how'd i lose by like 40 points to the guy who opened Chapel on 3/4" > "isn't this disgustingly overpowered" > "actually, trashing being incredible keeps bullshit variance down" stages of acceptance, in hyper-speed

Ithle01
May 28, 2013


Just got this last night and wow this is really good. Almost won on my first try with Ironclad when I died on the Awakened One because I was 5hp shy of living to kill it in the next round. The next two runs were disasters where I couldn't get any cards and all the encounters were screwing me over so I got crushed, but I pulled a win on the fourth run with a fat-as-gently caress deck that somehow worked anyway because I had about ten cantrip and exhaust cards in it with lots of card draw. A weird combination of multiple Offerings, Flex+, and three Pummels for getting kills. On the Shapes I managed to throw about 150 damage on the first round through Infernal Weapon gifting my a Mindblast.

I'd say there are situations where you can get a thicker deck to work, but yeah deck thinning is a big deal. Unless the rng just completely fucks you and you get literally nothing good repeatedly. Then again, there are cards like Pommel Strike or Headbutt that make deck-thinning not as necessary for the Ironclad. Looking forward to trying Silent tonight.

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LifeLynx
Feb 27, 2001

Dang so this is like looking over his shoulder in real-time

Grimey Drawer

Bleu posted:

I'm glad that Dream Quest finally has a UI that can get people to play it.

I played the heck out of this game when I used to take the train to work every day. Stick figure art or not, the game was fun, and the only thing I miss about not having an iPhone anymore.

Once Slay the Spire comes out on Android phones, I'll be playing non-stop. I broke down and got it on PC and can't stop.

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