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Murgos
Oct 21, 2010


Llamadeus posted:

The recent runs are mostly in the 2-2.5 hour range, they're on Twitch but get automatically removed after a few months

https://www.twitch.tv/lifecoach1981/videos

Thanks. I watched the first of his iron clad runs. His debating with chat style is much better for explaining the thought process than Jorbs ďIím so clever, watch thisĒ style which can be really hard to follow if you donít already see the trick coming.

2 hours is still a lot to dedicate, even more so when itís across dozens of episodes, but it seems worth it to watch a few of them.

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GlyphGryph
Jun 23, 2013


Sometimes the best defense is 8 meteor hammers

GlyphGryph
Jun 23, 2013


I will never actually be good at this game because I refuse to do math, make plans, or learn enemy patterns, but even I've managed to beat A20 so I'm pretty sure everyone can

Edit: And I'm still seeing nee stuff apparently, I don't think I've ever gotten this "Champion Belt" relic before, it seems very nice.

GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 12:40 on Sep 25, 2021

the holy poopacy
May 16, 2009



Fun Shoe

Murgos posted:

My first wins came from recognizing that defense is usually more important than offense. Making defense focused decks will vastly reduce variance. You really, only need one or two good attacks to dominate a game and having more than that can make your whole deck weaker.

This feels like a bad habit tbh? I felt the same early on and to be fair most of my earliest wins came from this sort of strategy but over-reliance on defense seems like a common newbie trap. Most encounters are designed to punish stalling and trying to block all incoming damage can cause you to wind up losing more health in the long run.

Having a defense engine is extremely useful and important. But a big part of the reason for that is that it frees you up to play more attacks. (Conversely, an offense or scaling engine does let you get away with just sitting back and focusing on defense, but there are relatively few options for that which will easily carry a deck. Mostly poison.)

Kheldarn
Feb 17, 2011




drrockso20 posted:

I have to ask how many runs did it take you guys to first successfully complete a run, cause this is run 20 now and it's starting to just plain be frustrating, doesn't help that most of my losses don't feel like I lost because of some great error on my part but rather just bad RNG and unfair game design, or that since at this point I usually can make it to somewhere in Act 2 before something screws me over that means at least a half hour to two hours of my time gets consumed for no tangible results

So maybe I'm reading this wrong, but it sounds to me like you're a new player.

If that's correct, you're pretty much going to lose a lot at first. There are a lot of good Cards and Relics that aren't available until you've played enough games and unlocked them. Each time you finish a game (win or lose), your Score is added to a bar that, when full, will unlock more things.

Once you have everything unlocked, you'll start to get the tools you need to start winning more frequently.

Unless, of course, you're like me, and Bad At Video Games™. I can't beat A1. On any character. :downs:

Just keep trying, and feel free to share seeds and result screens. There are plenty of goons here who will give you great advice!

Murgos
Oct 21, 2010


the holy poopacy posted:

This feels like a bad habit tbh? I felt the same early on and to be fair most of my earliest wins came from this sort of strategy but over-reliance on defense seems like a common newbie trap. Most encounters are designed to punish stalling and trying to block all incoming damage can cause you to wind up losing more health in the long run.

Having a defense engine is extremely useful and important. But a big part of the reason for that is that it frees you up to play more attacks. (Conversely, an offense or scaling engine does let you get away with just sitting back and focusing on defense, but there are relatively few options for that which will easily carry a deck. Mostly poison.)

Sorry, yes. I meant this as a method to make progress, get unlocks and learn the game. Not a long term strategy.

That said, all the top streamers still basically settle for one good attack for act one unless some confluence of synergies opens the game up early. Even later on you still are really looking for scaling or utility more than just card with raw big number.

Jorbs and life coach have both made this point multiple times.

the holy poopacy
May 16, 2009



Fun Shoe

Murgos posted:

Sorry, yes. I meant this as a method to make progress, get unlocks and learn the game. Not a long term strategy.

That said, all the top streamers still basically settle for one good attack for act one unless some confluence of synergies opens the game up early. Even later on you still are really looking for scaling or utility more than just card with raw big number.

Jorbs and life coach have both made this point multiple times.

Oh, I took "you only need one or two good attacks" to mean "you only need to take one or two attacks." Yeah, you don't need to be looking to take a bunch of big flagship attacks, but you do want some filler/utility attacks to tide you along.

Walla
Sep 17, 2017




drrockso20 posted:

I have to ask how many runs did it take you guys to first successfully complete a run, cause this is run 20 now and it's starting to just plain be frustrating, doesn't help that most of my losses don't feel like I lost because of some great error on my part but rather just bad RNG and unfair game design, or that since at this point I usually can make it to somewhere in Act 2 before something screws me over that means at least a half hour to two hours of my time gets consumed for no tangible results

After I had everyone unlocked I did about 10 runs with each character just beating Act 1. I wanted to get a good handle on what it takes to get through the first part of the game in terms of elites, pathing and cards.

Now 200 hours later I still suck but at least I know why I suck. My Silent is on A9, Watcher on A7, Defect on A6 and Ironclad on A5.

With the Silent in particular it helps to not build focused decks in Act 1. She struggles to deal damage so just grab that.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014



Murgos posted:

Thanks. I watched the first of his iron clad runs. His debating with chat style is much better for explaining the thought process than Jorbs ďIím so clever, watch thisĒ style which can be really hard to follow if you donít already see the trick coming.

2 hours is still a lot to dedicate, even more so when itís across dozens of episodes, but it seems worth it to watch a few of them.

Lifecoach is much more watchable live, because the gameplay gets broken up with conversations about non-game subjects and, when chat suggests something dumb, the sickest burns laid down in a German-speaking country since the Allied bombing of Dresden. You also get occasional side events such as stream invasions from the Lifekids or LC demonstrating one of his many other talents. The other day he was juggling, and one time we got an impromptu piano concerto where he played a piece of his own composition.

Deckit
Sep 1, 2012



drrockso20 posted:

Well on the first one where I was initially doing good, like I said the mistake was doing the Vampire deal as I wasn't paying attention and didn't realize that it would cost me a significant amount of health* nor did I realize that it would give me bite cards equivalent to the starting amount of Strike cards not my current amount(I had ditched at least two) and combined those both threw off my play and screwed me over when I ran into what's probably one of the worst things a Silent can run into; a multiple enemy encounter composed of multiple high health and highly aggressive enemies

As for the seed; ZZXG7G5ZTW1P

*as I had only encountered it before on Ironclad runs where I had a Perfected Strike in my deck so I would immediately say no as it would gimp one of my strongest attacks

Oh maybe I misread but I did it as Silent instead of IC. Died at the heart but ended up with a sweet Shiv-lite deck.

Deckit posted:

It's 1am but I'm sure as poo poo gonna play that seed before I go to bed.

Sure as poo poo played for 10 minutes then went to bed.

drrockso20
May 6, 2013

Has Not Actually Done Cocaine


Deckit posted:

Oh maybe I misread but I did it as Silent instead of IC. Died at the heart but ended up with a sweet Shiv-lite deck.

Sure as poo poo played for 10 minutes then went to bed.

Nah it was a Silent run, I just mentioned the Ironclad runs as being my previous encounter with the Vampire event(which thinking it over really would make more sense as an early Act 1 event as there's probably no real benefit to it by the point in Act 2 you usually encounter it, while it could have been useful if you were to get it at the very beginning of a run instead)

Yoshi Wins
Jul 14, 2013



Misrouted in act 3 so I couldn't do the burning elite. First time in probably more than a thousand runs that I've done that. And on the previous floor I had just bought Pellets, bought a Bottled Tornado and bottled Biased Cognition, and removed Pain, which was extra good because I had Helix. Oh, and I had Mummified Hand too.

Waaahhhh

Walla
Sep 17, 2017




Don't feel bad. I had a great Ironclad run that made it to Time Eater with double FnP, Imperviousness, and a bunch of strength and I died because I didn't pay attention to his counter.

ASAPRockySituation
May 9, 2010



Itís funny you say that because I had time eater at 2 hp last night on an IC run and died because he hit turn 12 because I was being careless and played a defend the turn before when I didnít need to.

ASAPRockySituation fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Sep 25, 2021

Drunk Nerds
Jan 25, 2011

Just close your eyes

Fun Shoe

drrockso20 posted:

Nah it was a Silent run, I just mentioned the Ironclad runs as being my previous encounter with the Vampire event(which thinking it over really would make more sense as an early Act 1 event as there's probably no real benefit to it by the point in Act 2 you usually encounter it, while it could have been useful if you were to get it at the very beginning

My stream cut out halfway through so I don't have a link now, but we just finished this run and are uploading the recording to YT. Should be ready in a couple hours and I'll link it.

Edit: Oh wait you can watch the first 90 minutes while we wait. Ignore the title, I'm not sure why it kept the title from my other Twitch account's last broadcast.


https://twitch.tv/videos/1159130862


Edit: Full video should be ready in 15 minutes here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QKCNGEoQWY

Drunk Nerds fucked around with this message at 00:43 on Sep 26, 2021

Drunk Nerds
Jan 25, 2011

Just close your eyes

Fun Shoe

drrockso20 posted:

Nah it was a Silent run, I just mentioned the Ironclad runs as being my previous encounter with the Vampire event(which thinking it over really would make more sense as an early Act 1 event as there's probably no real benefit to it by the point in Act 2 you usually encounter it, while it could have been useful if you were to get it at the very beginning of a run instead)

Fun fact: If you have the relic blood vial, you get the option of offering that instead of losing max health.

We did not have blood vial in our run, though

Walla
Sep 17, 2017




ASAPRockySituation posted:

It’s funny you say that because I had time eater at 2 hp last night on an IC run and died because he hit turn 12 because I was being careless and played a defend the turn before when I didn’t need to.



Mine was below half HP after his heal and I boosted my strength when a single defend would have kept me alive long enough for the kill. I might just redo the seed since I've been struggling with Ironclad lately.

Drunk Nerds
Jan 25, 2011

Just close your eyes

Fun Shoe

Drunk Nerds posted:

My stream cut out halfway through so I don't have a link now, but we just finished this run and are uploading the recording to YT. Should be ready in a couple hours and I'll link it.

Edit: Oh wait you can watch the first 90 minutes while we wait. Ignore the title, I'm not sure why it kept the title from my other Twitch account's last broadcast.


https://twitch.tv/videos/1159130862


Edit: Full video should be ready in 15 minutes here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QKCNGEoQWY

Rewatching this, I can see how it can make a newer player feel it's a RNG issue. The game never consistently gave us cards that fit a particular theme or archetype. But by considering what we needed to beat upcoming elites and bosses plus utterly overworking key rares like Hand of Greed, adrenaline, and nightmare we were able to overcome any shortcomings using a metric poo poo ton of Cardplay strategy.

NihilCredo
Jun 6, 2011

iram omni possibili modo preme:
plus una illa te diffamabit, quam multæ virtutes commendabunt



drrockso20 posted:

Nah it was a Silent run, I just mentioned the Ironclad runs as being my previous encounter with the Vampire event(which thinking it over really would make more sense as an early Act 1 event as there's probably no real benefit to it by the point in Act 2 you usually encounter it, while it could have been useful if you were to get it at the very beginning of a run instead)

I rarely take the Vampire event but a few days ago I had a fun Silent A4 run where I got Coffe Dripper from Neo, struggled a bit in Act 1, then in Act 2 I took both the Apparition event to stop the bleeding and the Vampire event to gradually heal back up (I'd prolong fights just so I could cast more Bites).

Fun and different from the usual, unfortunately the Heart managed to attack me on a no-Apparition turn and well, I didn't have enough block to keep any of my whopping 24 HP :v:

curiousCat
Sep 23, 2012

Does this look like the face of mercy, kupo?


The real sweet spot for the vampire event is when you have molten egg already

drrockso20
May 6, 2013

Has Not Actually Done Cocaine


curiousCat posted:

The real sweet spot for the vampire event is when you have molten egg already

That's one of the reasons I had accepted the deal, I had Molten Egg so since I hadn't paid attention and hadn't noticed either the health loss or it being exactly five cards added I thought it would just be a nice way to trade out the remaining couple Strike cards for something stronger

I imagine an early Act 1 Molten Egg is one of those relics that can just make things a lot easier since it frees up your upgrades for your skills and powers, not to mention a sizable boost to your overall damage output

Yoshi Wins
Jul 14, 2013



Early eggs rule. Early Molten Egg is really nice on everyone because of how important frontloaded damage is early. Early Toxic Egg on Silent and early Frozen Egg on Defect are nutty strong as well. But really, any early egg is great.

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NihilCredo
Jun 6, 2011

iram omni possibili modo preme:
plus una illa te diffamabit, quam multæ virtutes commendabunt



Goddamn it, the most broken Snecko swap run I've had so far and I still died like a chump to turn 3 Heart because I had no way out of Wrath and I could only block up to a total of ~110 effective HP and I needed to tank 120.

Still, from Act 2 it was super fun and from Act 3 it was utterly hilarious. Plenty of turn 1 kills including Spear, thanks to Necronomicon and like four different gold attacks, Ragnarok being the champ. Eruption/Indignation plus a 2cc Ragnarok+ = 144 damage right there, before vulns and other attacks. Then Meditate+ to repeat the exact same combo next round if necessary.

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