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Minrad
Sep 26, 2007

I will never forget your smiles. I feel like I saved the world today. Just feeling like that is enough for me.



Honestly Silent is just a little underpowered. They should start with an 11 or 10 card deck, or just get a better starting relic (maybe 1 extra card per turn if they wanna leave em with the 12 card deck)

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IcePhoenix
Sep 18, 2005

You're tense, I'm calm. You apply excessive force, I
*snap*
OHHHH HECKUMS


GrandpaPants posted:

I find that the issue with Silent is that there are a lot more enemies that counter its playstyles vs. the Ironclad. Like, really, the Ironclad can do pretty well with just getting good new cards and dumping the starting ones.

The main Silent builds get hosed by certain enemies. Artifacts make Poison buildup even slower, and some bosses purge Poison and gently caress your victory condition. This is somewhat balanced out by the fact that most enemies don't do anything against Skills (Chosen and that Act 1 Elite), whereas there's plenty of poo poo that Weaken, have Plated Armor, are Malleable, or whatever. It does suck rear end with AOE unless you get Corpse Explosion, though, and even then it's not like, fast about it.

The combo deck type, which I would classify Shiv and Bullet Time decks as, get absolutely hosed by status effects. I lost a run strictly because I went up against a group of two Repulsors and the explodey bot and thorny bot and those Dazes absolutely hosed my deck that was weak in pieces, but aggregated to a poo poo ton because I would draw and then Bullet Time.

That kinda sucks. I might just have to grind out all the silent unlocks so the relics get added to the pool and then play ironclad until the third class gets released/silent gets balanced.

Last night I had a really good start (or at least I felt like it was) for a silent deck and I still died at the first boss, which I followed up with a terrible Ironclad run that made it to the third floor.

The worst part about the Silent is that if you don't make it to the first boss (at least half my runs so far) the Whale won't let you change anything at the start

Fano
Oct 20, 2010


Got my second win with each respective character last night, this game is so addicting.


I think one of the worst parts is that when you've got a good and strong deck going, the game is already over and you don't get to keep playing the crazy combo you've built up over the last hour.

Sloober
Apr 1, 2011


Minrad posted:

Honestly Silent is just a little underpowered. They should start with an 11 or 10 card deck, or just get a better starting relic (maybe 1 extra card per turn if they wanna leave em with the 12 card deck)

Changing her start relic to +1 card/turn would be a good change. I do think she's underpowered, she has powerful combos available but it takes more work to get to them

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012


The Silent is fine, he has a lot of tools to give himself extra cards and energy. Compared to the ironclad it's not as important to thin your deck, as it's really easy to get some cycling abilities. Pretty much always take backflip for example. +1 card/turn would make her way stronger than ironclad (not that the characters need to perfectly balanced).

I personally think poison sucks and is a bit of a trap, but apparently some people can make it work. In my experience it's just way easier to make a build around spamming tons of low cost cards each round (shivs/agony/deflect/heel hook/slice) and abusing it with finisher/thousand cuts/afterimage.

please knock Mom!
Nov 9, 2011

Goddomme Jan!



The silent relic is made for trading in tho

Eraflure
Oct 12, 2012


GrandpaPants posted:

I find that the issue with Silent is that there are a lot more enemies that counter its playstyles vs. the Ironclad. Like, really, the Ironclad can do pretty well with just getting good new cards and dumping the starting ones.

So can the Silent, she has very high value cards. You don't need to go for any archetype to win with her.

A Large Mealworm
Jan 26, 2018


Just finished a pretty bonkers run with Ironclad. And I now have a new favorite card for him:

Final Relics: https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd....B3C16D7B04D718/

Cards:

Strike x5
Defend x3
Bash+ x1
Pommel Strike+ x1
Headbutt x2
Cleave x1
Perfected Strike+ x4
Shrug it off+ x1
Wild Strike + x2
Battle Trance x1
Reaper+ x1
Twin Strike x2
Clash x1
Double Tap+ x2
Madness x2

Perfected Strikes is just too good if you aren't going for a thin deck. In a perfect world this just needed an Evolve to help the free cycle with the wounds from Wild Strikes. But the Necronomicon x Perfected Strike combo out of the gate for near 90 damage was just too good. Starting the battle with the extra energy from Runic D20 allowed me to get off 5 Perfected Strikes turn one for near 250 damage.

My next goal is to try to win with a super thin desk, <15 cards for a rampage/strength build.

golden bubble
Jun 3, 2011


GrandpaPants posted:

I find that the issue with Silent is that there are a lot more enemies that counter its playstyles vs. the Ironclad. Like, really, the Ironclad can do pretty well with just getting good new cards and dumping the starting ones.

Is there anything close to the Sphinx enemy type in Dream Quest? I'm on the fence with this game, but I'd be willing to spring $20 for Dream Quest without Sphinx level bullshit.

A Large Mealworm
Jan 26, 2018


golden bubble posted:

Is there anything close to the Sphinx enemy type in Dream Quest? I'm on the fence with this game, but I'd be willing to spring $20 for Dream Quest without Sphinx level bullshit.

There are quite a few types of "debuffs" in the game, but nothing that works along the same line as the Sphinx. The debuffs also aren't as devastating as that, and are pretty balanced between being a nuisance for that fight/encounter without ruining the fight and ending your run.

DrManiac
Feb 29, 2012


It turns out that you can check the map before picking your starting bonus. Being able to get to an elite makes the 'first 3 encounters start at 1 hp' way more worth it.

A Large Mealworm
Jan 26, 2018


DrManiac posted:

It turns out that you can check the map before picking your starting bonus. Being able to get to an elite makes the 'first 3 encounters start at 1 hp' way more worth it.

I've never seen a starting map with an elite 3 battles away. I think the devs knew that going in... Sneaky devils.

Cinara
Jul 15, 2007


A Large Mealworm posted:

I've never seen a starting map with an elite 3 battles away. I think the devs knew that going in... Sneaky devils.

With ? stages you can get elites sometimes in your first 3, I had one super lucky game where I got two.

Also Ascension mode makes that starting option way stronger, more elites and way harder enemies.

CharlieFoxtrot
Mar 26, 2007




I have now lost with the Ironclad 15 times in a row.

This time it was with a Barricade-Body Blow deck that was doing really well until I ran into a nemesis and I was just not able to attack him for more than 1 damage until my deck was 60 cards with 40 of those being Burn+

IcePhoenix
Sep 18, 2005

You're tense, I'm calm. You apply excessive force, I
*snap*
OHHHH HECKUMS


Cinara posted:

With ? stages you can get elites sometimes in your first 3, I had one super lucky game where I got two.

This explains so much.

Beasteh
Feb 12, 2012

I'M QUESTIONING MY EXISTENCE AND THIS IDIOT JUST WANTS TO PEE OFF A WALL


I'm loving fat value Ironclad decks where I follow these basic principles:

- Always ship strikes
- Draft as many Shrug if Offs and Iron Waves as possible, take and upgrade Body Slam
- Grab Demon Form/Rampage as a win condition, Barricade is icing on the fatty cake
- Evolve once upgraded turns wounds into a reliable draw engine
- Keep the deck slim, good one ofs include Double Tap, Battle Trance, Seeing Red, Whirlwind/Cleave/Reap
- Look for shovel/thread and needle/+energy relics

ZypherIM
Nov 8, 2010

"I want to see what she's in love with."



CharlieFoxtrot posted:

I have now lost with the Ironclad 15 times in a row.

This time it was with a Barricade-Body Blow deck that was doing really well until I ran into a nemesis and I was just not able to attack him for more than 1 damage until my deck was 60 cards with 40 of those being Burn+

Stop trying to fight elites on map 3.


Personally I really like the silent's starting relic, it lowers a ton of first round variance on random encounters. I'd take throwing away or transforming a card over trading the relic every time.

Ultra-thin synergy decks are king, but they aren't the only valid way to push a build. A ton of relics open up other styles of decks, but it is a good rule of thumb to be a bit picky. I've had plenty of success saving all my money for relics and leaving starter card removal to luck at events. Not all cards are unlocked at the start, so I'd make sure to try to build thin decks until you unlock evolve for ironclad and acro/prepared for silent.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?


ZypherIM posted:

Stop trying to fight elites on map 3.

Only the Nemesis is that rough. I still always fight elites on the third area, simply because relics are strong and you're more likely to have Black Star by that point in the run, which makes fighting elites way higher value.

ZypherIM
Nov 8, 2010

"I want to see what she's in love with."



Relics are strong but by that point your deck shouldn't live or die to the boss by a relic you're missing. If he is having trouble getting wins, dodging elites and improving his deck is a way better choice than trying to beat them with a poor deck.

IcePhoenix
Sep 18, 2005

You're tense, I'm calm. You apply excessive force, I
*snap*
OHHHH HECKUMS


I'm starting to get better with the silent. I've started building HEAVY card draw into most of my decks (the amount that the silent has available to her vs what the ironclad has is immense), now I just need to figure out how and what to start thinning out of them. My last three runs all ended in the third area because of not getting the cards I need.

Beasteh
Feb 12, 2012

I'M QUESTIONING MY EXISTENCE AND THIS IDIOT JUST WANTS TO PEE OFF A WALL


Double tap body slammed the blue bird boss for 567 x2

CharlieFoxtrot
Mar 26, 2007




ZypherIM posted:

Relics are strong but by that point your deck shouldn't live or die to the boss by a relic you're missing. If he is having trouble getting wins, dodging elites and improving his deck is a way better choice than trying to beat them with a poor deck.

I couldn't get out of fighting an elite since there was one blocking every path, but thanks for the "Git gud" I guess

Beasteh
Feb 12, 2012

I'M QUESTIONING MY EXISTENCE AND THIS IDIOT JUST WANTS TO PEE OFF A WALL


By your own admission you've lost with Ironclad 15 times in a row

This is literally a case where 'get good' is a valid response, couched in positive language

Watch some Twitch VODs, Dolphinchemist is a failed Ben Brode clone on his way to Reunion and Celerity is a super snarky former MTG/poker pro

Both are very good and consistent at completing runs

Learn, get better at drafting/routing, start winning

CharlieFoxtrot
Mar 26, 2007




Eh I just think I'll unbookmark this thread and go on with my day.

Game is still fun though

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?


CharlieFoxtrot posted:

I am bad at the game.

ZypherIM posted:

Advice and discussion that is helpful.

CharlieFoxtrot posted:

Advice didn't apply in this one edge case. I am now deeply insulted.

Beasteh posted:

Further advice.

CharlieFoxtrot posted:

I will not take your advice. Goodbye.

Yep, sounds about right.

GrandpaPants
Feb 13, 2006

Free to roam the heavens in man's noble quest to investigate the weirdness of the universe!

There are some times where I just can't help but go "What's their problem?" and this is one of those times.

Have the devs said what their development plan for this was leading up to 1.0 besides the third character and probably stuff like more relics? Like, are they planning more acts/encounters/characters beyond the third even though I assume it takes a decent amount of time to create a card set for these characters? One thing that I liked about Monster Slayers is that there were a lot of different character types that did play differently, even if, admittedly, the strategies for each character were shallow as hell.

SSJ_naruto_2003
Oct 12, 2012



Well the ascension mode is coming soon which is currently a 6 level run with ramping difficulty. I think an infinite mode/expanding ascension is coming sometime as well.

KataraniSword
Apr 22, 2008

but at least I don't have
a MLP or MSPA avatar.
I am my own man.

Been playing this about a week, have something like 10 wins between the two classes (more consistently with Ironchad than Shush), and been trying my best to thin decks while still getting the cards I actually need.

I noticed in either this newest update or the one before it, Remove 2 Cards gets consistently paired with "Lose 50% Current HP" as opposed to "Lose 7 Max HP". Is it worth it to go for in that case? I've been getting wrecked early on when I get a whale like that.

Slime
Jan 3, 2007

by Lowtax


KataraniSword posted:

Been playing this about a week, have something like 10 wins between the two classes (more consistently with Ironchad than Shush), and been trying my best to thin decks while still getting the cards I actually need.

I noticed in either this newest update or the one before it, Remove 2 Cards gets consistently paired with "Lose 50% Current HP" as opposed to "Lose 7 Max HP". Is it worth it to go for in that case? I've been getting wrecked early on when I get a whale like that.

Lose 50% current HP is generally fine on Ironclad if you play conservatively at first, since his +6hp per fight relic will let him stay topped up or even get his health back up if you perfect a few fights.

GrandpaPants
Feb 13, 2006

Free to roam the heavens in man's noble quest to investigate the weirdness of the universe!

Even if you have to use a campfire to rest instead of upgrading something, it's still probably worth it.

foutre
Sep 4, 2011

RIP ZEEZ


Just finished an absurd ironclad run. I went all in on pommel strike, the one that does more damage off of strikes, double taps, and the strength synergy cards for an ironclad run. Got some relics that gave me block every turn and just stripped the deck of defense cards entirely.

Found a relic that didn't let me see intent, but gave me an extra energy and decided to just go for it.

I actually made it to the last elite before the act 3 boss, just cycling through ~60 damage turns. Ended up going against the elite with incorporeal, and couldn't deal with ~6 turns of 1 damage a hit on him.

It was still a really fun run (kind of validates that ironclad you can kind of do whatever on, relative to silent). I thought I'd get bored of this game fairrrly quickly/there wouldn't be enough variety but that's definitely not been the case.

I've won four Ironclad runs, but still have yet to get one on silent. Possibly doing things like stacking strikes is part of why that hasn't happened, to be fair. Excited for the third class, and whatever else they add, this game's great.

Aside from dungeon runs in HS and Dream Quest, are there any similar games y'all would recommend?

Fellis
Feb 14, 2012

Kid, don't threaten me. There are worse things than death, and uh, I can do all of them.


Ham Wrangler

HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:

Yep, sounds about right.

You can lead a poster to gud, but you canít make him git

ZypherIM
Nov 8, 2010

"I want to see what she's in love with."



I'm not a fan of taking the HP hits on the whale, I'd rather push to fight another elite on map 1 and the basic options tend to be pretty solid. Some of the deck setups are a lot harder to make work until you've unlocked some of the card/relic options as well. The best example is evolve for the ironclad makes every +wound effect read "draw an extra card", which immediately makes those cards crazy good (cards that give you wounds already are better than others for either stats or cost).

Maybe I'll sit down and make out a decent game-plan for the base card options.

Beasteh
Feb 12, 2012

I'M QUESTIONING MY EXISTENCE AND THIS IDIOT JUST WANTS TO PEE OFF A WALL


Upgraded evolve and a power through are all you need to generate an absurd amount of card draw for fast cycling to get your powers online

Stallion Cabana
Feb 14, 2012
1; Get into Grad School

2; Become better at playing Tabletop, both as a player and as a GM/ST/W/E

3; Get rid of this goddamn avatar.

the Ironclad's unlocks are all really good.

I had my third win, and my first that wasn't using the standard Perfect Strike deck, on a super defensive Ironclad who had Barricade and Entrench with Ethereal Armor; Barricade is like his 3rd or 4th unlock and Entrench and Ethereal Armor are his last. His other last Unlock is that Carnage card, the 2 energy Ethereal that does like 20 damage. I can understand why the Ethereal cards are last since they require a bit more thought, but Ethereal Armor is just a really good card and at 1 cost for 13 or 18 block I don't know when you wouldn't play it; if you aren't relying on Wound Cycling it's just a better Power Through.



I didn't get the Power Through until the last floor, and since I didn't really have any way to remove the wounds I avoided using it (Ethereal Armor was just better in context) and I got pretty lucky and removed literally all of my strikes; the top row that's missing there is just Blocks (I think Block+ because I got the event to upgrade them) and Juggernaut +, dealing 5 damage every time I gained armor . With all of the Powers and Exhausts I could cycle my deck really hard so I would gain 30-40 armor per turn and just turtle until I drew Body Slam while slowly wearing them down with Juggernaut. Bosses were the Form Shifty Thing, the Champ, and Donu and Deca, none of them were really a problem. I got to 1000 armor at one point during a random encounter just because my cycling wasn't working out great.

I wanna say the Silent's unlocks are decent too maybe? I think Accuracy and Steel Storm are her 4th unlocks, so those are important for the shiv deck but I think the Poison deck works from the start.

ZypherIM
Nov 8, 2010

"I want to see what she's in love with."



I think noxious fumes is an unlock, which by itself turns a poison deck from "kind of mediocre poison options you'll need several of and maybe a relic" to "get a noxious+". She might have some discard relic unlocks that really make that style of deck go crazy (tough bandages is an unlock i think), along with the "only does something on discard" cards.

IcePhoenix
Sep 18, 2005

You're tense, I'm calm. You apply excessive force, I
*snap*
OHHHH HECKUMS


I finally got a silent win

Traded my starting relic for the pyramid that allows you to keep your entire hand but lowers your start of turn draw, got a ton of other card draw, and loaded up on a lot of block and poison. Also managed to keep my deck at a reasonable size (27 cards at the end with four powers).

It's also the only deck I've ever run where I even got halfway through the third floor with only three base energy, so that was neat.

I still feel a bit like my runs are relic dependent (I picked up some very good relics for my already committed to deck along the way) so I need to get over that, but progress!

please knock Mom!
Nov 9, 2011

Goddomme Jan!



Snecko Eye + 7 card deck + Bludgeon + Dual Wield = ???

KataraniSword
Apr 22, 2008

but at least I don't have
a MLP or MSPA avatar.
I am my own man.

Beasteh posted:

Upgraded evolve and a power through are all you need to generate an absurd amount of card draw for fast cycling to get your powers online

Disclaimer: If you get Upgraded Evolve and a Mark of Pain, don't be afraid to add a LITTLE thickness to your deck. My last run I had a 14 card deck with Evolve in it and the good news was I would draw my entire deck, every turn!

The bad news is it would all happen at once and you have a maximum hand size so a chunk of my deck would just fall into the discard every turn. It's the only time I've capped my hand with Ironchad.

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Stallion Cabana
Feb 14, 2012
1; Get into Grad School

2; Become better at playing Tabletop, both as a player and as a GM/ST/W/E

3; Get rid of this goddamn avatar.

please knock Mom! posted:

Snecko Eye + 7 card deck + Bludgeon + Dual Wield = ???



I've been trying to figure out how you get Bludgeon to click for awhile and I'm still not sure.

I guess if you get a +1 Energy then a Double Tap + Bludgeon lets you get rid of every other attack card in your deck but I honestly can't think of many situations beyond that where it'd earn a permanent slot in your deck. This was obviously a good one though, Snecko Eye is great with it since it can only make the cost go down.

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