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Gravy Jones
Sep 13, 2003

I am not on your side


800peepee51doodoo posted:

This is what I'm struggling with. Its really difficult to find solid strategies because everything is situational and you kind of just have to get it. I don't know what "it" is, but I def don't get it right now.

The JoINrbs stuff is really good for this. And for me his runs really highlight the difference between how most people (including myself who is not good at this game, and Rhapsody falls in the same category) play, compared to how the people who pretty much only play A15 and go for streaks play. These are the people who will be picking a boring value card, that would be an auto-pass for me, on floor 1, based on what the first boss is, over trying to force a degenerate archetype. I've reevaluated a lot of cards based on his videos, but in general I don't really play like that. Which is probably why I'm not particularly good at the game, but at least I'm having fun.

jrm1ah is interesting in this respect because it feels like most of his stuff ends up being these crazy decks where everything just goes according to plan and he has absurdly good luck, but he streaks at A15 so it's not down to luck. Probably just selective with what he posts. His runs can be fun to watch, but I don't think they're particularly educational.

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Avasculous
Aug 30, 2008


Ultima66 posted:

There was one run that really pissed me off where he had an incredible starting Pandora's Box that gave 3 Scrapes, and then died late on floor 3 because he just absolutely refused to take any Leap/Auto Shields/Reinforced Body/Glacier/etc because they didn't cost 0 or synergize with a 0 cost deck. And he skipped like 3 Steam Barriers as well because "I only play thin decks and Steam Barrier is absolute crap in a thin deck," which isn't even true.


That's pretty asinine, especially since it's been my experience with A15 Defect that you get the All for One combo up to 150 damage in a turn or whatever, and you end up taking 25 damage in every other Act 3 fight anyways because that's still not enough to end it quickly and you can't block 40+ damage with Defends and Leaps.

If anything, the AFO deck needs stuff like Reinforced Body a lot more than any other Defect deck, because you can't count on Frost Orbs to keep you going.

The only time where I got AFO near-infinite enough to get away with basically ignoring block was when I stumbled into having two upgraded Breath of Airs (0-cost, reshuffle your deck, draw 2) and Sun Dial (+2 Energy every 3rd time you reshuffle).

Ultima66
Sep 1, 2008


FWIW I had a very smooth time of clearing up to A15 with Defect (and kind of stopped playing because I accomplished my goals of getting A15 with every class in this game). I found that Defect kind of lets you do anything you want, because with the starting Cracked Core you never get caught in the loop of "I have to spend all my mana defending every turn I can't hurt the enemies and eventually get overwhelmed/unlucky." Leap, Steam Barrier, Reinforced Body, and Glacier are all fantastic to take for anything I'm doing, and the only deck I've never really done is a deck focusing on sitting on Dark orbs. That's mainly because I always end up taking Glacier and always upgrade Zap as a first priority though, so I end up churning orbs too much.

I think as far as defending yourself on high ascensions, Ironclad tends to fall into either going deep on Exhaust or needing Barricade, and then your win condition always ends up being Body Slam. Silent's actual defensive cards don't generate a ton of block so you need to find something other than strong block cards to defend yourself (obviously Dex is the big one, but also Weakness and 0 cost spamming with After Image). Defect I think has the strongest generic block cards that you can use to carry any deck, which means it's not really restricted on what kind of win conditions you decide to go for. Hell, a lot of the high ascension runs I won didn't have "archetypes" until very late, winning fights by just having an upgraded Ball Lightning and upgraded Axe Kick to do massive damage for cheap.

RyokoTK
Feb 12, 2012

I am cool.


Well they took out Axe Kick so now you need a new strategy.

800peepee51doodoo
Feb 28, 2001

Volute the swarth, trawl betwixt phonotic
Scoff the festune


SynthesisAlpha posted:

The main advice that's been given in the thread is pretty solid. Don't aim for a specific archetype unless it falls in your lap. Each class has certain high value cards that can fit in any deck, some are one-ofs and some are grab every copy you can. Like I said, everything is situational. You might skip a card when it shows up in act 1, but grab it when it appears again 4 fights later because your deck dynamic has changed. You can't just build for the act 3 boss, you have to win every fight up to that point, and win SOUNDLY. Resting at campfires means you better have just killed an elite because otherwise you wasted a card upgrade.

In general, cards that do something and then draw cards are solid picks because they at least open up your options and you were probably going to attack/defend anyway. The counterpoint to that advice is to know what is left in your deck anytime you draw during your turn. If you know that there's 2 cost card you want to play in the next 3 cards, don't blow down to 1 energy using a Shrug it off if you had a Defend because you might be trading that 2 block for missing out on your good attack.

Never get complacent, never just toss out cards and end turn. Know your enemy, like whether it's worth using a defend vs. a Goblin Nob, or if you should pass two turns against Lagavulin to pull a power or go in on turn one. Is it better to kill the regenerating slimes to keep them from hitting you this turn or should you leave it at 1 hp so you don't have to take down another 26 hp when it revives? Does that relic at the shop really make your deck, or would you be better served with removing a strike or buying some solid bulk like a Shrug it Off? Just gotta play more and get the feel for these answers because the whole game is about adapting to the fluidity of your game state.

On the other hand, it's been pretty well established that you should take literally any energy relic offered by the first boss. MAYBE skip Velvet Choker on Silent, but the 4th point of energy is worth any drawback the relic offers.

Yeah, I've been following this kind of advice for a while and it really helped me wrap my head around the basic game. I can win pretty consistently there, its just when it starts to ramp up in Ascension that my normal strategies and plays seem to fall apart.

Gravy Jones posted:

The JoINrbs stuff is really good for this. And for me his runs really highlight the difference between how most people (including myself who is not good at this game, and Rhapsody falls in the same category) play, compared to how the people who pretty much only play A15 and go for streaks play. These are the people who will be picking a boring value card, that would be an auto-pass for me, on floor 1, based on what the first boss is, over trying to force a degenerate archetype. I've reevaluated a lot of cards based on his videos, but in general I don't really play like that. Which is probably why I'm not particularly good at the game, but at least I'm having fun.

I'll be watching more of his videos for sure and see if I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. It's really weird how a game I'm this bad at keeps its hooks in me, though. Its super fun even when I'm getting my teeth kicked in.

A Bag of Milk
Jul 3, 2007

I don't see any American dream; I see an American nightmare.


Llamadeus posted:

You might also be underprioritising act 1 elites relative to rest sites since some of these runs have zero elites in the first act. It's worth picking your first few cards entirely for fighting act 1 elites since the rewards generally outweigh the upgrades you have to pass up by resting.

From a few pages back, but this ended up being very good advice for me. I had been greatly undervaluing elites and overvaluing campfires for upgrades. Working out pathing at the beginning of each act is pretty vital on high ascension. I mostly just automatically took the path with the most fires every time, but actively considering how good your deck is against each elite, and giving yourself options in the back half of the act to take some optional elites or play it safe if necessary is really important for optimal play. I just beat silent a10 with 10 elite kills, and the relics far outweighed the damage I took.

Avasculous
Aug 30, 2008


800peepee51doodoo posted:

Yeah, I've been following this kind of advice for a while and it really helped me wrap my head around the basic game. I can win pretty consistently there, its just when it starts to ramp up in Ascension that my normal strategies and plays seem to fall apart.

Ascension has two consequences for everyone:

1. The game becomes less and less tolerant of mistakes. At normal difficulty, you can make a lot of minor errors here and there and still cruise to the finish. On high ascension, even little errors snowball into game losses an Act later, because you had to rest instead of upgrade which made you take more damage in a later fight and have to rest instead of upgrade etc.

2. Viable archetypes for each class become narrower and narrower. With any class, you can win at normal difficulty with a random pile of good cards. Someone on Reddit has even won playing all 3 classes with the starter cards only.

At Asc 15, there's really only 2-4 ways to build your deck in each class that have a good chance of winning. Playing anything else, even perfectly, is likely to fail simply because the cards/combos aren't good enough to cope.

A Bag of Milk posted:

From a few pages back, but this ended up being very good advice for me. I had been greatly undervaluing elites and overvaluing campfires for upgrades. Working out pathing at the beginning of each act is pretty vital on high ascension. I mostly just automatically took the path with the most fires every time, but actively considering how good your deck is against each elite, and giving yourself options in the back half of the act to take some optional elites or play it safe if necessary is really important for optimal play. I just beat silent a10 with 10 elite kills, and the relics far outweighed the damage I took.

It becomes really striking just how much work Relics do if you try to get the 1-relic achievement. I still don't have that or Minimalist.

Avasculous fucked around with this message at May 25, 2018 around 00:07

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RyokoTK
Feb 12, 2012

I am cool.


I heard it phrased perfectly as this: a rare card or a card upgrade only benefits you when you draw it, but most relics benefit you every hand, every fight.

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