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As a final minor correction I believe it was Ner’zhul and not Gul’dan the demons were initially interested in. This is because Ner’zhul was trusted and seen as wisest of all Shamans at the time, so his words would be able to convince all Orcs of the Demon’s lies being true, especially when Ner’zhul himself believed what the Demons showed him whilst pretending to be his dead wife’s spirit. It’s only after he realises the demon’s duplicity that Ner’zhul is removed and Gul’dan starts being the liaison between the Orcs be the Demons. Gul’dan having known the truth quicker and being all in on the Demon following gig.
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Jan 26, 2018 07:39
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Like DotA? Or Tower Defence? We played the hell out of DotA at the office. (Well, not the developers, they played Counter Strike, Dust2, with the understanding that everyone would only go around in one direction. No other map, no other mode. Devs were weird.) But yeah, lots of DotA. I wasn't very good, though I did enjoy playing the Agility heroes, particularly... what was that guy's name, it's been ages? Troll guy, had two axes, could switch between ranged and melee... I think we should leave that to the end. I want to see a complete WarCraft III LP without the poor LPer burning out part way. And I like how DoubleNegative's started out.
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Jan 26, 2018 07:42
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painedforever posted:Like DotA? Or Tower Defence? I agree that it should be at the end. Probably because I was a kid, but I always liked some of the "RPGs" they had. Mostly just grinding in retrospect. I still want to get a game of dark deeds going again.
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Jan 26, 2018 13:25
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There is actually a fully playable version of the Lord of the Clans out there somewhere. Hopefully, its not  to talk about an almost 20 years old game that is never to going to be released.
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Jan 26, 2018 13:48
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One last note on Grom, the novel that served as Thrall's intro to the series (to replace the cancelled game) portrayed Grom as a lot calmer, more clever, and less murder-lust-y; the one big thing I remember is him scolding his warriors for kidnapping a human child, and ordering them to return him to his village unharmed, so as to minimize risk of human soldiers searching for them and retaliating. I've personally always attributed his behavior in this game, as we'll see later down the road, to the circumstances of the plot, rather than simply how he's been since the end of the Second War.
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Jan 26, 2018 14:02
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Did someone say Grom Hellscream? I really miss the narration before missions in WC2.
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Jan 26, 2018 15:06
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Lord_Magmar posted:As a final minor correction I believe it was Ner’zhul and not Gul’dan the demons were initially interested in. This is because Ner’zhul was trusted and seen as wisest of all Shamans at the time, so his words would be able to convince all Orcs of the Demon’s lies being true, especially when Ner’zhul himself believed what the Demons showed him whilst pretending to be his dead wife’s spirit. Yeah, though Gul’dan was the better student and was kept waiting in the wings just in case from early on. The Warcraft 2 manual orc section is written from Gul’dan’s perspective and it seems he was the favored student even before the switch but that might have been his own hubris. Kil’jaeden (demon lord) saw Gul’dan as more dangerous and easier to manipulate. Ner’zhul sort of repented when he found out how far he had fallen but the demons just elevated Gul’dan and kept on trucking. Ner’zhul was kept on ceremonially in the Warlock Shadow Council that secretly manipulated the Horde and he was the one who anonymously told Durotan not to drink the demon blood. That being said, Ner’Zhul was not a hero. He stayed on Draenor in the Second War and was there when the portal was destroyed (and was wounded in the explosion). He sought to open even more portals and acquired the skull of Gul’dan to hell open it and the remains of his old apprentice spoke to him and further corrupted him. As his ultimate fate plays into the larger story of Warcraft 3 I will shut up now.
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Jan 26, 2018 16:07
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IShallRiseAgain posted:There is actually a fully playable version of the Lord of the Clans out there somewhere. Hopefully, its not There is but I do not think the cinematic are synched in right. You can find them on YouTube but the story can be hard to follow. Maybe someone has fixed it since I played with it. Most of the game is no longer canon. While the story is broadly similar they leave out Thrall’s young human friend that helped him escape and gave him some sympathy and mercy towards the humans. Deathwing is also portrayed as the child of Alexstraza and is killed in the game when both were later made to be one of the Five Dragon Aspects. The gap between shamanism and warlock magic are also left much more nebulous in the game as if they are linked when later they are completely opposed. Finally, the reason for the orcish malaise in the internment camps is a black ale created by the human Blackmoore (raised Thrall) in league with the orcish sons of Blackhand. They leave out the demon blood aspect entirely. Thrall and Grom defeat this plot to save the orcs.
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Jan 26, 2018 16:19
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Also of interest, Warcraft 3 was where the clans and kingdoms started to get really defined, unique personalities and cultures. Back in WC2 they were mainly just the names of the different colors a given faction on a map might have. The human kingdoms in WC2, for example, had only a little bit character: Blue = Stormwind, the humans from WC1 who were crushed by the Horde. Red = Stromgarde, a fierce warrior kingdom that repeatedly warred with the trolls. Green = Kul Tiras, an island kingdom known for its powerful navy. Orange = Alterac, a small and weak kingdom of traders and merchants. Purple = Dalaran, a kingdom famous for its many and powerful mages. White = Lordaeron, the largest and most powerful kingdom, also the most religious. Black = Gilneas, a remote and rugged kingdom with a powerful army and stubborn streak of independence. Nowadays, of course, all of them have pretty distinct cultures and character. Except Alterac, which was destroyed in WC2, and Stormwind, which remains Generic Fantasy Humans.
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Jan 26, 2018 19:22
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In case anyone was worried that I'm not going to show off extra stuff... The mission takes 48 minutes. Fully half of that is getting to this one secret.
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Jan 27, 2018 22:53
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Least the next campaign's variant will go faster. Actually, can wood harvesters even attack trees in campaign?
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Jan 28, 2018 04:30
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I think he mentioned that. Workers can attack trees, but it wastes the resource.
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Jan 28, 2018 05:02
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Chapter IV - The Warning Hello everyone, welcome back to Warcraft III. Today's update starts the Human campaign with the cinematic "The Warning". There aren't too many more of these in the game, so enjoy them while they last! Indeed, this is the last time (until the expansion) that a cinematic will introduce a campaign.  Click Here for Video    The Prophet is busy flying across a lot of terrain to reach the capital city. While there's no desert canyons between the Arathi Highlands and the Capital City, there are if you come up from the far south of the continent. So I like to think the Prophet made this journey before he contacted Thrall. Makes sense at least. He was human, so he claimed, at one point.  I love the design of the capital city here. With the minarets, the vaguely desert landscape, and the dome in the center left, the city looks like it's Middle Eastern in design. Then gameplay and WoW happens and it's just a generic fantasy city in the forest with none of the desert inspired themes. Tell me this couldn't have been a shot of Lut Gholein from Diablo II.   : We've received reports that the orcs are regrouping.  : Certainly the recent attacks against the internment camps are evidence enough.  : Agreed, the Horde is on the move! : This is absurd. My nation will not stand by and watch as the Horde masses on our very doorstep!  : The orcs are not our primary concern here. How many times must I repeat myself?  : King Terenas, you must heed my warning! This plague that has gripped the northlands could have dire ramifications... King Terenas notices the shadow of the Prophet pass by overhead and looks up.  : Plague? You wizards are just being paranoid!   : Let's keep all this in perspective. Even if this plague does pose a threat to us, what are you proposing that we do?: It is simple. As I have said, the Kirin Tor are already prepared to place the villages under strict quarantine...   : I will not institute quarantine without proof of your claims, ambassador.  : The people of Lordaeron have suffered enough without becoming prisoners in their own lands.      : Yet prisoners they are, good King. : What is the meaning of this? Who are you? : Humanity is in peril! The tides of darkness have come again, and the whole world is poised upon the brink of war! : Enough of this! Guards, remove this madman!   : Hear me! The only hope for your people is to travel west, to the forgotten lands of Kalimdor!: Travel west? Are you mad!?  : Hold, ambassador. I don't know who you are or what you believe, but this is not the time for rambling prophets!  : Our lands are beset by conflict, but it shall be we who decide how best to protect our people, not you! Now, begone!  : I failed humanity once before, and I will not do so again. : If you can not take up this cup, then I shall find another who will.   : The warning has been given. Their fate is now their own.So much bloodshed, heartache, and grief could have been avoided had Terenas only listened. Also here's a fun thought for you... there's no doubt the Kirin Tor ambassador could feel just how powerful the Prophet is. So a lot of what's going to come also gets laid at his feet too. NEXT TIME: The Defense of Strahnbrad
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Jan 29, 2018 20:27
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He just shows up out of nowhere and starts rambling vague warnings with no context or explanations and expects them to listen? And instead of trying to actually convince them he just walks away and smugly comments that everything that happens to them will be their own fault? He is TERRIBLE at his one job. Maybe if he had told them what the orcs were really up to (since he was kinda responsible) and the whole approaching demon thing.
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Jan 29, 2018 21:19
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Fun fact: Many years later (several expansions into WoW, when things can no longer be considered spoilers for this game), Khadgar does this exact same thing to King Varian Wrynn down south in Stormwind. Instead of vague doomsaying however, Khadgar gets right to the point: "The Burning Legion has returned." Bam, job done, Varian jumps into action.
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Jan 29, 2018 21:33
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Damnit, I'm currently playing through WC2, and this thread just makes me want to replay WC3 for the millionth time. As opposed to WC2 for the billionth.
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Jan 29, 2018 23:15
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No LP of WC3 would be complete without the peanut gallery gallery complaining just how useless of a warning that was, because it was terrible. The cinematic was great though.
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Jan 29, 2018 23:33
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I've never liked Terenas' face in WC3. He looks a bit too low quality, like he showed up from the Diablo 2 set. Also, have the videos always looked so foggy? It's like Bink has some compability issues with newer operating systems, but I honestly don't recall if it has just always looked like this.
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Jan 29, 2018 23:39
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THE BAR posted:I've never liked Terenas' face in WC3. He looks a bit too low quality, like he showed up from the Diablo 2 set. I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume that it's just because it's a prerendered cinematic from 2002. The screenshots look approximately how they look in VLC, with a little jpg artifacting. If it's the actual video I linked to, that's just some random dude on youtube. Like all Blizzard games from the turn of the millennium, the cinematics are incredibly hard to record. When it comes time to play them, the game actually minimizes itself and opens an external player that self terminates once it finishes. As you can imagine, this plays twenty different types of hell with recording software. So all the cutscenes I've taken screenshots of have been playing the .mpq files in VLC and using the "snapshot every xx frames" tool. If you're curious, I documented my list of troubles getting this LP up off the ground. It's a wonder that it even works! https://twitter.com/_doublenegative/status/947143893409202176
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Jan 30, 2018 00:00
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That sounds incredible obnoxious. 
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Jan 30, 2018 00:10
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I prefer the Terenas we can see briefly in Warcraft 2 to this one. Check out this video about a minute in- spoiler warnings, this is the Orc Campaign Ending from Warcraft 2. Most Pathetic Human King Ever!  Good luck continuing the LP and I hope your troubles do not return.
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Jan 30, 2018 00:17
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I'm pretty sure blizzard pit out a e'll somewhere that got those working on a modern os that I found on my last play through. Also, the prophet being terrible at his job and only convincing people to gtfo when they already want out of town is both in character and great.
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Jan 30, 2018 00:46
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Does shadowplay work? That should just record what you see.
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Jan 30, 2018 00:53
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Poil posted:He just shows up out of nowhere and starts rambling vague warnings with no context or explanations and expects them to listen? And instead of trying to actually convince them he just walks away and smugly comments that everything that happens to them will be their own fault? He is TERRIBLE at his one job. Maybe if he had told them what the orcs were really up to (since he was kinda responsible) and the whole approaching demon thing. Given who this guy is, him being an incompetent fuckup is honestly probably the best result anyone could hope for. If he did try to tell everyone who he was and how he knows what he does, everyone's reaction would be "Oh Christ kill this lunatic before he dooms us all!" Cythereal fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Jan 30, 2018 |
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Jan 30, 2018 01:01
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A not-bad cinematic, nice and dramatic. It's just that when you sit down and analyse it, you think, "Wow, that actually a pretty terrible warning." So, y'know, just sit back down and enjoy the show. Most of the cinematics show up at the end of campaigns. This is probably the weakest of them all, but it's just supposed to set the stage. It doesn't introduce any major in-game characters, but does introduce the current state of the human kingdoms. They're bickering, each faction is pushing their own agenda. The King, Terenas, I don't know if he's meant to look that way, but he seemed almost asleep when the Prophet flies in, bored with what's happening. He's dismissive of the Mage representative, and dismissive of the Prophet's warnings. The only thing that gets a rise out of him is anyone suggesting that he take any action. The human kingdoms are rotting from the inside out.
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Jan 30, 2018 01:26
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I do like his line, "I failed humanity once, I won't do so again!" followed by "Oh well, I tried..."
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Jan 30, 2018 01:38
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Looking back on this 15+ years later, I do agree that King Terenas' 3D model has oh so definitely not aged well. Woof. I do however like his body language during the cinematic; Terenas gives the impression that the debate has either been going on for way too long, or this is the millionth debate on this matter in the past week, and he is absolutely done with this poo poo. Which is why when the Prophet shows up out of the blue, Terenas looks at this as a way out of the tedium. Sadly, the Prophet's ramblings do not help matters and probably makes Terenas even more irritated, leading to his angry outburst that drives the Prophet away to find someone else.
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Jan 30, 2018 05:24
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BlazetheInferno posted:Fun fact: Many years later (several expansions into WoW, when things can no longer be considered spoilers for this game), Khadgar does this exact same thing to King Varian Wrynn down south in Stormwind. The problem with that is, Khadgar is a well known and respected man famous for his integrity, wisdom, and magical ability. The Prophet is none of that, and if he revealed his name the reaction of everyone present would be to freak the gently caress out because this is a man with a history in Warcraft, none of it good or associated with wise decisions. Lordaeron is complacent, yes, but the Prophet is also utterly the wrong person to deliver this warning.
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Jan 30, 2018 05:39
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Had the Prophet just worded it as something along the lines of “seriously, listen to the guy who’s talking about quarantines, ‘cause you are REALLY gonna wish you had,” he might’ve had a chance of salvaging his introduction and having the desired effect on the assembled statesmen. Especially since just about every other thing he could have said would’ve either seen him dismissed as a loon or “upgraded” to kill-on-sight.
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Jan 30, 2018 10:23
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Yeah, this is an incredibly ineffective warning but no warning would've been effective at this point for the Prophet. Like, I cannot think of anyway for him to effectively warn people, at least none that aren't dubiously ethical.
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Jan 30, 2018 12:29
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Lord_Magmar posted:Yeah, this is an incredibly ineffective warning but no warning would've been effective at this point for the Prophet. If he'd been smarter (again, this is not a guy anyone's ever associated with good choices), he probably wouldn't have approached Terenas first. Why yes, going straight to the king of the largest, most prosperous, most militarily powerful nation on the planet and telling him that his kingdom is doomed and he needs to evacuate his people west across an ocean no one has ever voyaged across in recorded history to a forgotten land is bound to succeed. A better choice probably would have been going to someone more credulous, like Antonidas (the ruler of Dalaran, the mage kingdom) or perhaps Katherine Proudmoore, queen of Kul Tiras - If the new WoW expansion is anything to go by, Kul Tiras is used to seeing weird poo poo.
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Jan 30, 2018 14:29
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Or, heck, try doing anything other than crash an important quorum between important heads of state like some kind of lunatic with at best sketchy motives and at worst plans to kill the bunch of them. Maybe approach one of them, in private, and bring some evidence. Have a conversation with someone. I love that this LP exists, by the way. But it also makes me feel old. I played this game when I was in high school so to me it feels modern and new and how come people don't know the story of this new and popular game surely everyone has played? But... no, the game came out almost 16 years ago. There is an entire generation of new gamers that were too young to play this game in the first place and only vaguely know it exists because of WoW and Hearthstone.
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Jan 30, 2018 14:35
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Cythereal posted:If he'd been smarter (again, this is not a guy anyone's ever associated with good choices), he probably wouldn't have approached Terenas first. Why yes, going straight to the king of the largest, most prosperous, most militarily powerful nation on the planet and telling him that his kingdom is doomed and he needs to evacuate his people west across an ocean no one has ever voyaged across in recorded history to a forgotten land is bound to succeed. I think the problem with going to Katherine is that you then have to convince Daelin it's a good idea, and he's notably pigheaded and stubborn. Antonidas seems like the best bet, but I can think of two reasons it absolutely would not work.
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Jan 30, 2018 15:32
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Lord_Magmar posted:I think the problem with going to Katherine is that you then have to convince Daelin it's a good idea, and he's notably pigheaded and stubborn. Daelin would probably listen to the Cthulu priests, though, who are notably opposed to the Burning Legion. The death druids would probably also concur. Really, it's hard to think of any force in the Alliance that would be inclined to listen to the Prophet. Gilneas? Genn Greymane is possibly the only Alliance leader even more stubborn and willing to fight a hopeless battle than Daelin Proudmoore. Arathor? They're a warrior kingdom, running from an enemy is utterly unlike them. Stormwind? Busy rebuilding from the First and Second Wars, they're not about to leave. The remnants of Alterac, perhaps, but they've never gotten any characterization. Quel'Thalas? Even more arrogant than Lordaeron. The Bronzebeard clan? They're not ones to run from anyone. The Dark Irons? In league with forces older than the Burning Legion and probably confident they can handle this. Possibly the Wildhammer Clan and the gnomes might listen to the Prophet, but both groups get at most a token reference in this game. Thrall listened to the Prophet because he and the Horde had nothing to lose and nowhere else to go.
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Jan 30, 2018 15:43
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And also because the prophet didn't just barge into a meeting between Thrall and the clan leaders and shouted nonsense. 
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Jan 30, 2018 16:08
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So... the identity of the Prophet. Any particular reason we're dancing around it? Does it come up during the game? I mean, I know that it has significance in the backstory, but does it ever become relevant? Because honestly, all I knew of the backstory of WC3 was out of the manual; I hadn't realized WC2 had any lore to speak of.
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Jan 30, 2018 17:59
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This is a rough game for the Alliance in general. Also, we could play the "spot the geographic inconsistencies in the map when compared to World of Warcrafts map" but that would kill all of the readers before the first campaign is done.
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Jan 30, 2018 17:59
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painedforever posted:So... the identity of the Prophet. Any particular reason we're dancing around it? Does it come up during the game? I mean, I know that it has significance in the backstory, but does it ever become relevant? Because honestly, all I knew of the backstory of WC3 was out of the manual; I hadn't realized WC2 had any lore to speak of. 
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Jan 30, 2018 18:01
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Klaus88 posted:This is a rough game for the Alliance in general. It does end on a hopeful note, with the beginnings of a new human nation under a certain archmage and finally burying the axe between the Alliance and Horde, but... then WoW happened.
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Jan 30, 2018 18:22
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Cythereal posted:It does end on a hopeful note, with the beginnings of a new human nation under a certain archmage and finally burying the axe between the Alliance and Horde, but... then WoW happened. In short, reality ensues. Average people have a very hard time letting go of strong grudges and old hatreds, no matter how hard their leaders try to work together. Hell, the Rexxar campaign in Frozen Throne already starts to show how shaky that "peace" is.
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Jan 30, 2018 21:46
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