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GulagDolls
Jun 4, 2011



we should have one designated game per mafia year where you are allowed to be as much of a monster as you wish but during all other games you must be a n angel

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Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy


GulagDolls posted:

we should have one designated game per mafia year where you are allowed to be as much of a monster as you wish but during all other games you must be a n angel

Pre-sign for "get modkilled for saying something nice" mafia.

50 pounds of bread
Sep 27, 2006



Yeah, I talk to people who aren't in the game about active games all the time.

It's a suggestion in my eyes.

I also never take mafia seriously, which isn't to say I don't try. It just means that I am assuming people will be poo poo to one another and let everything roll off of me.

At the same time, people need to do two things that are important.

#1 Don't be a loving rear end in a top hat. Personal attacks are not cool, don't make them. Things like "you're being an idiot" are fine, things like "you must have been dropped on your head as a baby" are not.

#2 Don't connect your cases to your person. If someone disagrees with you or tears down your case, don't take it as a personal attack. Whenever this bullshit happens, I see the person lash out at the person who tore down their case with words that get closer and closer to personal attacks. It gets to the point where this downward spiral stops being about the game, and just turns into people being assholes to each other for no reason.

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.


So this game.

In terms of balance I'm happy. I always try to make roles that align with flavour and are interesting within the game and I think town and scum stacked up well against each other here. A wrinkle I think some people probably might have missed is that most scum abilities had a one day cooldown time which meant I could up their power accordingly. Part of scum's skilled play this game was electing to use their night actions sparingly and holding things back for an opportune moment. If it felt like scum rolled you as town, they were on the razor's edge for all of it to fall apart at any moment.

A big shoutout to Rex who imo played an absolutely phenomenal scum game, especially considering this was his first game of mafia. EA was intended as effectively a suicide vig since it would obviously out Gilgamesh and I genuinely thought the moment he used it he'd be dead to rights, but the narrative that he crafted around his 3P role was really compelling. Well done on that.

I'm most pleased that the game was robust against unexpected situations like Saber dying very early.

In terms of feelings.

I'm not going to lie, a little part of me was chuckling away when I made the game knowing that people would have to go through what I did in Shine.

But crucially I made this game before the tail end of Shine where I felt awful and posted and approved it in the postgame where Bif took everything incredibly well and we remained friends.

I regret my decision on how I set up the game in that regard now. I feel like the setup is fine when people expect to be betrayed and are generally suspicious, but I don't think it works as pleasantly for newer players. As a rule, more than anything else, I want my mafia games to be ones where people can laugh at all the silly stuff that's happening, do stuff like RP as their characters and feel like they can contribute even if they're new or not feeling confident. I don't think this game achieved that for a lot of us.

Additionally I think the presence of multiple masonries makes the endgame a lot worse because the persuasive aspect of the endgame in the thread itself is so strongly mitigated by masonry chats. It means everyone later on feels like they're screaming into a void of nobody listening to them and they're right, because people are chatting away in their masonries.

In all, I don't think the game was a mistake, the setup was interesting and I'd like to explore something similar again. The game itself was balanced so there wasn't a design flaw as such. But I think I've learned an important lesson about trying to ensure that people feel they have agency in mafia games, even as the setup itself breaks down.

I maintain though, holy poo poo was it great to watch.

SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005


I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!




Fallen Rib

Natural 20 posted:

I maintain though, holy poo poo was it great to watch.

I think it must have been amazing to watch MMT and Rex just doing work.

Bifauxnen
Aug 11, 2010

HOPE IS BACK, BABY
(GEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEENS)


Natural 20 posted:

I maintain though, holy poo poo was it great to watch.

It really was, this was a very close nailbiter of a game and all the drama and intrigue (and even roleplaying!) was just great.

Tobbs Gnawed posted:

Pre-sign for "get modkilled for saying something nice" mafia.

I would seriously run this game if I wasn't too torn by the thought of being unable to play in it.

KhediveRex
Jul 11, 2016

A poster to surpass Bifauxnen!


I just wanted to thank everyone for all the kind words. Reading through spectator chat was a pleasure, getting a call out from the Mod was heartwarming, you all have just been great.

I don't have much to compare this experience to, but I really thought this game was exceptional. And I'll be shocked if my next mafia is as suspenseful and entertaining. So, thanks Nat20 for running the whole experience. And for giving a total novice, like me, so much agency and room to screw up. I had the time of my life scumming this game.

Especially with Murmur and B-, I couldn't have asked for a better team. You both were cordial, clever and on task the whole time. I've been on a few teams with Murmur in the past but this was the first one where we got to chat out of character and that was a lot of fun. Working with and getting to know B- was equally great. I'm hoping all three of us end up on a team again some day. Because the synergy there was Palpable.

Bread, I thought you were hilarious. And if there's a style of play I'm gonna try to mimic in future games, it's yours.

Bif, I regretted us killing you immediately the next day. The thread seemed so quiet without you. However, reading through spectator chat and seeing you repeatedly calling out my Gilgamesh gambit as unsupportable lunacy made me really happy you weren't still in the game.

Tobbs, I think you were honestly the closest to calling me on my bullshit in a way the thread would believe. I really enjoyed sparring with you and for silly sentimental reasons I wish we'd been able to keep you till the end game. You were just way too scary to leave floating.

Prince, it broke my heart killing you. I thought of us as almost on the same team, "Awesome Novices" or whatever. Even once I knew we couldn't both win, I was rooting for you man. Novices playing against veterans ain't easy, you made it look easy. Keep being great.

Gulag, I don't think I ever actually legitimately got under your skin but If I did, sorry about that. Nature of the game and everything. You and Mona really were destroying my talking points over the last two days and it was awkward trying to keep it up. Now that the games over though, I can say in full honesty that getting past you and Mona was the real, actual final boss of this game. You were great man.

Mona, I think I did get under your skin a little bit, and I'm especially sorry about that. I hope we get to play again so I can be a little less of a feckless idiot next time. I think if we hadn't been on opposite teams, we'd have been good buddies. Next time I suppose.

Sal, you were the star of this game. You gave the thread empathy and emotional depth, you were the only person who was actually nice, the whole time. I just think you're great and I wouldn't have had a quarter as much fun if you hadn't been here. I know this game got a little intensely personal, and I'm very sorry for my part of that. But I really hope to see you again. One day, you and me, we'll be scum buddies together. Calling it now.

Thanks again to everyone! You're all beautiful people, and I look forward to meeting you all again in the next bloodbath.

KhediveRex
Jul 11, 2016

A poster to surpass Bifauxnen!


Also, whoever gifted me this avatar -

Really. Thank you. I love it. I was never gonna buy one of these things, I'd just accepted that my image would be the "Trump Lover" thing forever. I'm really glad you stepped in to prevent that future from happening.

So, I don't know if you even played in the game or not but, you get a shout out too. Thanks for being! I like the way you are.

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011


KhediveRex posted:

Mona, I think I did get under your skin a little bit, and I'm especially sorry about that. I hope we get to play again so I can be a little less of a feckless idiot next time. I think if we hadn't been on opposite teams, we'd have been good buddies. Next time I suppose.

Only near the end, where I had failed to convince Sal when I was in full teardown mode of every arguement you guys put forward. You were extraordinarily good at coming up with bullshit in such a way that I thought you were extremely dumb 3p and not scum, which was legitimately frustrating me even though I knew you were almost certainly the other scum by the end

I'd enjoy playing with you in another game! Ideally in one where we can bounce ideas off each other and I dont have to feel like i'm headbutting a brick wall :v:

GulagDolls
Jun 4, 2011



i think the only time something got under my skin was the quid/bif fight because i witnessed something similiar in ff6 and it was just like, god drat why is this happening again.

sal you characterized me as a frustrated townie but honestly I don't think I was invested in the game to that degree. like I said I was frustrated during the quid/bif thing but i think a lot of what you were picking up on is just uhhh. how me talk. i don't think/mean for it to come off as aggressive either so x_x; i was suffering from a lack of sleep during the final days so i did end up invoking the dread word 'bruh'

also it was a good game. thanks nat20

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SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005


I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!




Fallen Rib

GulagDolls posted:

i think the only time something got under my skin was the quid/bif fight because i witnessed something similiar in ff6 and it was just like, god drat why is this happening again.

sal you characterized me as a frustrated townie but honestly I don't think I was invested in the game to that degree. like I said I was frustrated during the quid/bif thing but i think a lot of what you were picking up on is just uhhh. how me talk. i don't think/mean for it to come off as aggressive either so x_x; i was suffering from a lack of sleep during the final days so i did end up invoking the dread word 'bruh'

also it was a good game. thanks nat20

It's fine. I understand completely (I swear a lot which can come off as hostile.) Again I tend to trend sensitive (to a fault) so I'm sure that was just me interpreting things. Also that last game day I was having a real crisis between my head (##Vote MMT) and my heart (##Vote Gulag) so that wasn't doing me any favors either.

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