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Nighthand posted:Outside of bosses I honestly think I only died two or three times, one of which was the final gauntlet where they require you to swap goo off an enemy, which I hadn't needed to do by that point... and actually, the first time I tried it I must have missed or something because it didn't work, so it threw me off, and at least two were drowning trying to explore the underwater area postgame. Yeah the first enemy used to demonstrate that mechanic is short so if you are on an even surface with them and aren't ducking, your shot will go over their heads. Anyways, as for the review I read it and honestly some of the criticisms are absurd or wrong. Like this. quote:One particularly infuriated me by demanding moves the game itself wasn’t fast enough to respond to (it madly disables jump while charging your electric wrench, despite requiring such a move), while at the same time signalling attacks so late that I find it physically impossible to jump before they hit. The only boss that requires you to charge your wrench is Carver and the attack that requires you to do so gives you an absolutely ludicrous amount of time. It has another attack that has a pretty short tell, but that attack is dodged simply by "walk forwards, then backwards". Saying the "game itself wasn't fast enough to respond" or "signalling attacks so late that I find it physically impossible to jump before they hit" just means that he was bad at the game and was blaming the design. quote:The farther I got in the game, the more it seemed to lose its sense of direction. So often I found myself completely unaware what it wanted me to do next (and the pause screen prompts are as ambiguous as “Chasing agent Black, you’ve been looking for the forest tower”), either because a distant area that was previously blocked off was now mysteriously opened with no warning At no point did the game ever not telegraph clearly where generally you were meant to go. When exploring a zone for the first time sure you didn't know the specific direction, but that exploration is part of the joy of metroidvania-ish games. He also complained about the writing and used incidental random NPC flavour dialogue to demonstrate, while not mentioning the fact that the actual story and main character writing is fantastic. Especially anything with Agent Black, and especially the THIS IS MY ROCKET monologue. John Walker is a bad reviewer and is bad at video games.
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Feb 4, 2018 22:02
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I don't know how intentional this is, but with regards to save slots, I was struck at how Agent Black is the only person who is used to label a save slot but doesn't join your party at any point. When you confront her at the rocket I was like "Okay; Robin, Mina, Royal, and Elro are used to label save slots, and she's used to label a save slot, so what probably happens is you talk her down and then she joins your party for the moon segment." But that's not what happens. Not at all.  Overall I was impressed with how grim the game was. Like, I wouldn't have been surprised if at the end you were supposed to sit with Elro and wait for the end of the world, because sometimes a bad situation just can't be fixed.
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Feb 4, 2018 22:23
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SirSamVimes posted:
yeah I'm around 30% too (where he quit) and have no idea what the gently caress he is talking about with most of these complaints. the things that are true like picking up boxes being a bit unnatural are just, so nitpicky...who is playing video games for the box-carrying mechanics
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Feb 4, 2018 22:29
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I disagree with most of the Walker review but am on the same page regarding dialogue. The only character that had a clear, believable voice to me was Black. Every other major character I would find myself re-reading at least one sentence during a scene since the wording/length was just a little off. I've been debating how much leeway there is to give because English isn't the dev's first language, and for the most part the story/characters shine despite the odd dialogue quirks. It absolutely could have used a pair of second eyes, though, and I'm surprised how many people say how good the moment-to-moment writing is.
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Feb 4, 2018 23:01
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I've read way too many janky-as-gently caress scanlations of manga and poo poo to even be bothered by the writing idiosyncrasies in this game. There were a couple instances that stood out, though with Myron some of it was probably intentional because he's an obtuse fucker of a boatman. An editing pass by a native speaker might have helped but overall it wasn't anywhere near that bad.
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Feb 4, 2018 23:35
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I'm pretty sure that Myron likes using words that he doesn't actually know the meaning of, e.g. microcosms instead of microorganisms.
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Feb 5, 2018 00:02
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what's the deal with the blue eye ghost looking things? Are they like controllers before the aliens? Is there a way to kill the armored lighting guys?
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Feb 5, 2018 03:56
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Just wanted to say I've been following this since Ivory Springs and wasn't let down at all. Like I even hung out in a few streams way back when and watched him work on the game. It lived up perfectly to what I expected v vAlso the heavy armor enemies cannot be killed or messed with, just gotta dodge em as far as I could ever tell. As for the other enemy are you talking about the dudes in the dark cave? I think they are just Strange Bats but I have no idea.
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Feb 5, 2018 06:14
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ThisIsACoolGuy posted:As for the other enemy are you talking about the dudes in the dark cave? I think they are just Strange Bats but I have no idea. 
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Feb 5, 2018 06:24
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Metroixer posted:I disagree with most of the Walker review but am on the same page regarding dialogue. The only character that had a clear, believable voice to me was Black. Every other major character I would find myself re-reading at least one sentence during a scene since the wording/length was just a little off. I've been debating how much leeway there is to give because English isn't the dev's first language, and for the most part the story/characters shine despite the odd dialogue quirks. It absolutely could have used a pair of second eyes, though, and I'm surprised how many people say how good the moment-to-moment writing is. I mean, I'm not sure what to say? Black is fantastic overall. Mina is pretty drat perfect and pulls of a lot of good snark moments. Royal is weird, but Royal is supposed to be weird. Elro speaks as a pretty normal character overall. Chrome is loving hilarious with his dumb speeches as I've previously talked about. The only major character I felt dropped the ball is White, because he felt a little overwrought, but whatever. The only person that felt out of place was Myron, who I think was intentional.
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Feb 5, 2018 06:33
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Rookersh posted:I mean, I'm not sure what to say? White only talks in single words pretty and was pretty funny that way. But honestly he was a pretty minor character so I don't care that he did not do much.
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Feb 5, 2018 06:41
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Re: ESL dialogue, it felt like Shakespeare to me. Not in terms of quality, of course, but how the dialogue feels a bit off at first (Black's stuff in the opening I had to re-read a little carefully) until your brain gets a hold of the "dialect". Once it clicked it felt like it flowed fine.
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Feb 5, 2018 06:47
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temple posted:what's the deal with the blue eye ghost looking things? Are they like controllers before the aliens? I don't think the blue eyeball things were ever explained in the game other than that it attaches to anything with ivory and can take control of it. Since humans come from another planet they don't get affected by it. Exception are the ones with ivoryblood. I assume they are also an artificial creation by the birdpeople to stop life from getting too advanced or something. They were taking over the One Concern base by the end of the game. Before that though, they were found by the One Concern while they were in the dark cave and then they locked it up. They only really started attacking everything after Royal blew it up and it sent the signal into space. On another note, I found it ironic that Chrome was the one who saved Elro's life only for his life to be ended by Elro who he saved earlier in the game. Every bad guy should take Black's advice and just kill them on the spot.
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Feb 5, 2018 06:53
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Velveteen posted:I don't think the blue eyeball things were ever explained in the game other than that it attaches to anything with ivory and can take control of it. Since humans come from another planet they don't get affected by it. Exception are the ones with ivoryblood. I assume they are also an artificial creation by the birdpeople to stop life from getting too advanced or something. They were taking over the One Concern base by the end of the game. Before that though, they were found by the One Concern while they were in the dark cave and then they locked it up. They only really started attacking everything after Royal blew it up and it sent the signal into space. I appreciate how Black doesn't have that issue where a recurring villain is de-fanged by being defeated over and over, since every time it's someone else that helps Robin get away, and Black's the only one who sees Robin as the threat she ultimately turns out to be.
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Feb 5, 2018 07:09
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It also helps solidify Black as the only genuinely competent member of Team Badguy.
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Feb 5, 2018 07:38
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everybody in the one concern is a self-serving hedonist with no idea what they're doing or how to fix anything, and the only exception is competent because she has an ivory tumor that makes every day a waking nightmare. the iconoclasts! e: my only disappointment with this game is that there isn't a boss battle against mr chatter and mr wink on the tower theater stage
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Feb 5, 2018 08:10
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Venuz Patrol posted:e: my only disappointment with this game is that there isn't a boss battle against mr chatter and mr wink on the tower theater stage I was seriously so bummed those guys didn't show up again, their designs were great. I imagine a boss fight against the goofy comedy duo is pretty high on the "things-to-cut" list, though.
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Feb 5, 2018 08:20
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Konjak did mention that one of his regrets is that he didn't do more with those two.
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Feb 5, 2018 08:24
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Paper Tiger posted:I don't know how intentional this is, but with regards to save slots, I was struck at how Agent Black is the only person who is used to label a save slot but doesn't join your party at any point. When you confront her at the rocket I was like "Okay; Robin, Mina, Royal, and Elro are used to label save slots, and she's used to label a save slot, so what probably happens is you talk her down and then she joins your party for the moon segment." But that's not what happens. Not at all. Watching Joakim's interview, I got the impression he definitely cared about the story of the game, and the reviews I had caught up until playing it myself intrigued me: some praising the story, others critical of the writing. I finished the game yesterday, and I'll count myself on the camp that's impressed with the storytelling, but it ultimately didn't feel like a cathartic end. Black was the stand out character, and I also took her save slot icon as a cue that there'd be a turn where she'd join Robin's party. Given that +seven years have already been dedicated to making this game, I can't imagine how much longer it would have taken to weave in alternate good end/true ends, but I was hoping to the very end for a Magus joins Crono's party moment, or even a small cutscene like seeing Misery at the end of Cave Story sneaked in. Watching Black's fate play out was a big downer. I might have missed it, but is there a clear context on how Robin's dad died, or is it just mopped up as hush-hush? If Elro is just speculating on foul play, it pisses me off more that his action precipitated in Black's flaws being aggravated. Tried to empathize with him, but gently caress him too. Going off of one the early trailers, I do feel the game was earnestly trying to tell a story with moral/philosophical heft. In this regard, I think I side with the Ars Technica review that didn't feel this aspect of its writing was a strong point, but I do feel the characterization of the cast itself was great. The reveal of the Transcender struck me as a top highlight, and doubly so when you revisit it to see firsthand the less than glorious byproduct (I remain a fan of alkaline hydrolysis). A good game coming from the soul.
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Feb 5, 2018 09:00
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Polro's death is never spelled out explicitly, but I honestly think he died in an accident working for the One Concern. They have a system in place that allows them to freely execute whoever they please, so they have no need to disguise an execution as an "accident". It couldn't have been Penance, because his house is still standing.
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Feb 5, 2018 09:35
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My only problem with the game is that the two major sidequests don't become available until the very end, and that some of the secrets are too obtuse. But that's only a problem if you want to 100% it. Loved pretty much everything about it otherwise.
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Feb 5, 2018 13:03
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I just finished the game in challenge mode and honestly, it wasn't as bad as I expected it to be. Most deaths were by bosses adding in secret projectiles that you don't expect and smacking you in the face as you try to jump over something. Gauntlet rooms are the biggest part of the frustration. You never had an issue with gauntlet rooms in easier difficulties but when you can only take one hit, a stray lightning bar during Mina's gauntlet at One Concern East or at the gauntlet at the Impact Zone are horrible. The one thing that gave me the hardest time was The fight with the starworm/birdman. The first two forms aren't so bad its just trying to conserve all iron hearts you can for the bird phase. At the bird phase, the random jumps, the fire dropping all over the floor and summoning monsters were so distracting that you're bound to get hit by something. I ended up wasting at least an hour learning every single pattern before beating it. It wasn't so hard you want to give up though. I had a lot of fun learning to do the entire game again taking minimal to no damage.M. Propagandalf posted:I might have missed it, but is there a clear context on how Robin's dad died, or is it just mopped up as hush-hush? If Elro is just speculating on foul play, it pisses me off more that his action precipitated in Black's flaws being aggravated. Tried to empathize with him, but gently caress him too. Robin's dad's death was an accident according to the reports you can read in One Concern. The agents also talk about how his death was an accident. As others have said it, he wasn't executed because his house is still standing. This all means that Elro was the one that caused everything. The reason his family was killed and the reason Robin was in trouble was because Elro one day snapped and stabbed Agent Grey while he was being, in his mind, overly friendly and condescending with him. He thought One Concern killed his dad so he was seeking revenge but it just set off a chain of murders after. I have no idea why he would return home after killing an agent as they're obviously looking for him now and sentenced his family to death. If there was one character that I didn't wish to survive at the end, it was Elro. I was so happy when Mina shot him.
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Feb 5, 2018 20:49
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Velveteen posted:I was so happy when Mina shot him. This brings up something I haven't quite figured out: after Mina shot Elro, how did they end up pressing the buttons? Is the implication that Elro just got up and did it after?
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Feb 5, 2018 20:58
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kidcoelacanth posted:This brings up something I haven't quite figured out: after Mina shot Elro, how did they end up pressing the buttons? Is the implication that Elro just got up and did it after? teegan mentions that she knows better than to ever follow elro's advice after you land back on earth. she followed him in and pressed the button for him
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Feb 5, 2018 21:01
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kidcoelacanth posted:This brings up something I haven't quite figured out: after Mina shot Elro, how did they end up pressing the buttons? Is the implication that Elro just got up and did it after? The other scientist lady, Elro's friend did it. When you get back she mentions she knows what Elro would do or "wouldn't do", so she knew Elro would refuse to go along with the plan.
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Feb 5, 2018 21:02
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Velveteen posted:I have no idea why he would return home after killing an agent as they're obviously looking for him now and sentenced his family to death. Blockrock was suffering a cold spell. He thought he could sneak a fast one by providing his family heat for the season(?) with the Ivory battery before parting for good. Still Tri-awful decision making on his part, but that's consistent with everything else he's done.
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Feb 5, 2018 21:24
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He was saying he was going to have to go away, he was probably trying to see his family one last time. Which was a terrible loving idea.
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Feb 5, 2018 21:26
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I dunno they probably would've killed his family either way. They're blowing up whole houses here.
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Feb 5, 2018 22:12
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lets hang out posted:I dunno they probably would've killed his family either way. They're blowing up whole houses here. It seems that they don't execute people who aren't complicit in the "sin". Look at Mr. Andress or whatever his name was, he wasn't executed for his wife's sins. Elro's family however were all present and watching Robin do repairs, and therefore considered to be a part of it.
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Feb 5, 2018 22:15
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Yeah, it's also heavily implied Robin and Elro were ticketholders, or would have been, because Polro and Elro were high up in the One Concern hierarchy. It's implied he was working on the Rocket so they could leave. Also if Robin hadn't gone on her adventure she likely would have been conscripted by the One Concern anyways to work on the rocket. And then also been fine. Also it's a shame that Gray genuinely seemed to be a good person. Tried to get Black on board with the idea of empathy, cared about the people around them, etc. Elro didn't even kill the lovely agent in White, he went for the good one! Like the ending to the game is better? maybe, but it's a funny thing.
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Feb 5, 2018 22:28
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Rookersh posted:Like the ending to the game is better? maybe, but it's a funny thing. That's kind of up in the air, they mentioned even in One Concern that some people had different color tickets, which implies to me that "having a ticket" and "having the right ticket where you actually get off the planet" were two different things either way, it's hard to argue that a couple of main characters get off the planet before it dissolves, and everyone on the planet dies is a better ending than the planet is accidentally boosted back up and at least has the potential not not dissolve, but some of the named characters we're introduced to die, but there's also literally nothing preventing the same thing from happening again anyways, since Isi is still mining ivory nodes as far as we know, sooo e: also even though Royal is dead and not causing issues by consuming ivory for power, A. the rest of the new agents are still running around and have the potential to cause issues, and B. isn't it implied that it's not just a gameplay mechanic and Robin is somehow able to suck ivory out of the things she kills to repair her tweaks with? it was mentioned early on so I may be misremembering the phrasing of that Ursine Catastrophe fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Feb 5, 2018 |
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Feb 5, 2018 22:51
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Rookersh posted:Also it's a shame that Gray genuinely seemed to be a good person. Tried to get Black on board with the idea of empathy, cared about the people around them, etc. Elro didn't even kill the lovely agent in White, he went for the good one! If only they had White bark down goondolences, we wouldn't have gotten into this mess. SORRY!! Your dad was a GOOD MAN...
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Feb 5, 2018 23:07
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Ursine Catastrophe posted:That's kind of up in the air, they mentioned even in One Concern that some people had different color tickets, which implies to me that "having a ticket" and "having the right ticket where you actually get off the planet" were two different things Would Royal be dead. His powers still worked so would he not just be stuck regenerating up there. Also the Reborns seemed much weaker then the other Agents as they did not have any regenerative abilities.
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Feb 5, 2018 23:21
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MonsterEnvy posted:Would Royal be dead. His powers still worked so would he not just be stuck regenerating up there. Also the Reborns seemed much weaker then the other Agents as they did not have any regenerative abilities. I would imagine the ivory in the surrounding area would run out fairly quickly. The reborns were weak because they were young and didn't know how to use their powers yet.
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Feb 5, 2018 23:34
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I mean there's an entire moon's worth of ivory so I imagine it'd take a long-rear end time for him to use it all up. Though the explosion may have sent him into the void of space so maybe he is dead. the fact that him floating dead in the void of space is the best possible outcome is a great example of how grim this game is and I love it
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Feb 5, 2018 23:36
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Question about the ending montage. I did the quest that ends with you fighting Mother's Corners. In the ending you can see what I assume is the sole surviving pupil praying. Is that scene different if you don't do the quest? I know some of the montage scenes are different depending on what you do during the game.
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Feb 5, 2018 23:41
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Renoistic posted:Question about the ending montage. I did the quest that ends with you fighting Mother's Corners. In the ending you can see what I assume is the sole surviving pupil praying. Is that scene different if you don't do the quest? I know some of the montage scenes are different depending on what you do during the game. I don't believe that changes.
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Feb 5, 2018 23:49
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Does One Concern have any actual control over the Penance? I know they use those eyePods to activate machinery, but it seems like they always just kind of stand back and let it rip.
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Feb 5, 2018 23:51
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Ursine Catastrophe posted:That's kind of up in the air, they mentioned even in One Concern that some people had different color tickets, which implies to me that "having a ticket" and "having the right ticket where you actually get off the planet" were two different things I dunno. I'd agree that the ending is better then the alternative, but we do have a serious problem with the state of the world post birb. City One is a charnel pit, the One Concern doesn't exist anymore, and most of the settlements are empty/deserted/barely holding on. The human population is incredibly focused. Yeah it's nice that the Contra is looking into electricity, but we also have to remember none of the settlements were self sufficient, and the people supplying them don't exist anymore. The only people really left are the Isi in their weird bases and a few tentative survivors worldwide. Like we don't know the actual plan One Concern was going for. If it was just straight up execs, mother, agents and like 20 kids then yeah this is better.....barely. But if they were planning to eventually get everyone from City One up there in the next 20 or so years, then that might have been a better ending. As is I don't feel like we adequately know what they were planning. For all Mother's talks about how they ruined everything and the plans were hosed, the Rocket worked and the Moon Base looked pretty done. What did they need 20 years for outside of building additional rockets/further building up the Moon Base for more people. Then again, in that future you'd still have Mother and her cronies running everything, and outside of Chrome they all seemed like jackasses.
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Feb 5, 2018 23:59
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I feel like the ending we got was terrible in the short term, but ultimately in the long term for the best. The infusion of the planet with Starworm ivory means that there's a ton of time to develop a viable alternative energy source before it runs dry again, the introduction of natural forests all over the world means there's a new resource to help rebuild, and the destruction of the One Concern allows for a less fascist government to build. It's a massive upheaval but it will benefit the world as a whole.
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Feb 6, 2018 00:05
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