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iospace posted:Applying the death penalty, or any significant punishment, to the MSU gymnastics program will have only one effect: Who cares. It’s not like the gymnastics program is some inalienable right.
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Aug 30, 2018 21:05
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Calling what the NCAA did punishing is a bit a atretch
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Aug 31, 2018 15:35
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iospace posted:So basically, now that I stepped away to grind some coffee and thought about it for a few minutes, you're saying that people are going to go to the school to spite those who say you shouldn't because of the coverup? He’s saying that taking away titles and wins doesn’t mean anything. They still happened, most aren’t gonna care that they aren’t in an official record book.
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Aug 31, 2018 21:41
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iospace posted:I know. I don't feel right though, personally, punishing students and athletes for poo poo they didn't do. And I understand some people probably did go to MSU under the pretense that the university was better than that, and people will continue to do so, unfortunately. Punishment of anything bigger than one person is gonna effect others, maybe even innocent people. You have to accept that or just not bother doing anything.
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Aug 31, 2018 21:52
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Lockback posted:What? Our legal system is built on the idea that it is far more important to let guilty people go than punish an innocent. "You gotta hurt innocents to maybe hurt guilty people" is total garbage. That isn’t really true or there would be no laws. It’s literally unavoidable. SEC busts a company doing lovely things and fines them to oblivion? Well you are now punishing a ton of people who worked for the company, who most likely had nothing to do with their bosses lovely practices. Punishment of anything bigger than one person is gonna effect others you can’t avoid that. You can say that argument is silly to make and to broad a definition of punishing the innocent but that is where we are. CharlestheHammer fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Aug 31, 2018 |
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Aug 31, 2018 22:09
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iospace posted:Yes, because a corporation is the same thing as a public education institution. I mean yeah they are especially modern universities but let’s get more personal If you commit a murder but have a wife and child, would not punishing you also be punishing them? The kid loses a father and the wife loses her husband and an income source, which could lead to instability. You literally can not punish one person and have it only effect that person. Every action is going to have an unattended effect. CharlestheHammer fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Aug 31, 2018 |
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Aug 31, 2018 22:46
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iospace posted:So you're telling me that you want the victims to be punished now. Lovely. Sigh, you have no real interest in engaging what I’ve said do you. You just want to be self righteous. Well you do you.
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Aug 31, 2018 23:00
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Lessail posted:That's not what I've said at all It’s okay he’s just flailing about at this point just disengage. He isn’t interested in arguments at this point. He has made up his mind and won’t listen to anything else.
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Aug 31, 2018 23:07
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iospace posted:For the record, she. Sigh I will rengage if you address even one of my points and not handwave them away as they cause your entire point to collapse. Like not one of your last four points addressed to me have actually contained an argument. Explain how the example I gave is wrong if your so interested in arguing. I can’t engage something that doesn’t exist.
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Aug 31, 2018 23:36
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iospace posted:You said even innocents get punished by the guilty party being punished by collateral damage, per se. I pointed out that the innocents in this case also include the victims, and I don't like that fact they also may get "punished" in this situation, and thus I can't support any broad stroke punishment. You did not counter this specific point or address it. I would like you to do so. Okay? Literally any punishment is going to end up “punishing” the victims unless you either do nothing or specifically avoid punishing the programs that participated in the problem. Even then you can’t control how the university will react, maybe punishing them themselves out of anger at the inconvenience. I didn’t address it as it’s meaningless. Granted this still doesn’t really have much to do with what I said so I guess it’s your turn.
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Aug 31, 2018 23:53
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iospace posted:One last thing so we're on the same page: what punishment do you want the NCAA to do? The death penalty would be ideal, force them to basically restart the program from scratch like SMU was forced to do. It’s the easiest way to fix the program.
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Sep 1, 2018 00:53
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iospace posted:Even with all the people involved with the coverup fired at this point (I believe at this point that is the case, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here)? Restarted down the line is fine, also allow the students involved to transfer out if need be. If they use it as an excuse to axe the program that’s fine. They don’t have any particular need to have the program exist and it’s ultimately their choice.
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Sep 1, 2018 01:03
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