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Megazver
Jan 13, 2006


Super Rad posted:

Wonder what his skeleton looks like

Hugging a second skeleton, I imagine.

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Flesh Forge
Jan 31, 2011

LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT MY DOG BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

Stuffed into a toilet

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004

Delicious and Nutritious



Fun Shoe

Sitting in a chair facing the door, in a party hat and sunglasses.

Edit: But only if you noclip into the room. If you walk in normally you bump a piece of trash on the floor that touches him and causes his bones to catapult around the room.

Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at Oct 20, 2018 around 19:19

Tei
Feb 19, 2011



So


I dont understand.


Is this game withouth NPC's ... or.. it have npcs?

Dongicus
Jun 11, 2015


Tei posted:

So


I dont understand.


Is this game withouth NPC's ... or.. it have npcs?

the only NPCs in fallout 76 are the people behind the keyboard

Fair Bear Maiden
Jun 17, 2013


Tei posted:

So


I dont understand.


Is this game withouth NPC's ... or.. it have npcs?

Sounds like they're hyping up the audio logs and radio stations as if they were NPCs. It's... certainly a marketing tactic.

Lunatic Sledge
Jun 8, 2013

DIE DIE DIETO



if I recall correctly, the lady at The Top of the World seems to actually recognize someone has shown up, so she's probably not just a tape recorder

but you also don't get to actually see her, from the gameplay I saw she seemed to just be a voice beyond the door / might be a brain in a jar or something I have no idea.

Also there's definitely NPCs, just not human ones--there's a super mutant running around that'll sell you poo poo, at least. Why there's robot and super mutant NPCs but they drew the line at "definitely no visible human NPCs" is still a puzzle unto itself

GI_Clutch
Aug 22, 2000
Where is he? Where's who? Your leader! He's...to the east. Thanks for the infor...MATION!

Dinosaur Gum

These seem to just be photo mode pictures as both that dude and the raider are wearing pipboys. It feels more like a combo of here's some backstory along with here's some outfits you can get in game.

Megazver
Jan 13, 2006


Lunatic Sledge posted:


Also there's definitely NPCs, just not human ones--there's a super mutant running around that'll sell you poo poo, at least. Why there's robot and super mutant NPCs but they drew the line at "definitely no visible human NPCs" is still a puzzle unto itself

The mutant, at least, has no actual dialogue. He just has (somewhat amusing the first time you hear them) barks and a trade menu. I am reluctant to call that an 'NPC'.

Father Wendigo
Sep 28, 2005
This is, sadly, more important to me than bettering myself.

GI_Clutch posted:

These seem to just be photo mode pictures as both that dude and the raider are wearing pipboys. It feels more like a combo of here's some backstory along with here's some outfits you can get in game.

There's that, and the Selfie Frames are quest rewards for completing something for the respective factions.

goatsestretchgoals
Jun 4, 2011

in soviet russia, you shove robot

Republic of Virginia Dave

Lunatic Sledge
Jun 8, 2013

DIE DIE DIETO



Megazver posted:

The mutant, at least, has no actual dialogue. He just has (somewhat amusing the first time you hear them) barks and a trade menu. I am reluctant to call that an 'NPC'.

assuming we're both talking about (Legendary?) Grahm, his lines are pretty scarce but he does actually talk--he references both his cow and a possible stash he left somewhere

(admittedly this is hard to notice in most of the footage I've seen of him, because youtubers can't shut up for five seconds)

Arcsquad12
Mar 4, 2013

I Love Satan


I wonder if the cows will be two headed yet or if the mutations take generations, like Doctor Duff says in fallout 4 about bloatflies. Who am I kidding if they can reuse an FO4 asset they will.

Lunatic Sledge
Jun 8, 2013

DIE DIE DIETO



Arcsquad12 posted:

I wonder if the cows will be two headed yet or if the mutations take generations, like Doctor Duff says in fallout 4 about bloatflies. Who am I kidding if they can reuse an FO4 asset they will.

the one cow I saw is definitely of the recycled two headed variety

Megazver
Jan 13, 2006


Lunatic Sledge posted:

assuming we're both talking about (Legendary?) Grahm, his lines are pretty scarce but he does actually talk--he references both his cow and a possible stash he left somewhere

(admittedly this is hard to notice in most of the footage I've seen of him, because youtubers can't shut up for five seconds)

Yes, that's what a 'bark' is, it's the gamedev term for lines NPCs say when you're nearby or activate them in some manner that isn't actually engaging in proper dialogue. ""I used to be an adventurer like you, then I took an arrow in the knee," "Khajiit has wares if you have coin", etc. Article about them.

Mr Hootington
Jul 24, 2008


Lunatic Sledge posted:

if I recall correctly, the lady at The Top of the World seems to actually recognize someone has shown up, so she's probably not just a tape recorder

but you also don't get to actually see her, from the gameplay I saw she seemed to just be a voice beyond the door / might be a brain in a jar or something I have no idea.

Also there's definitely NPCs, just not human ones--there's a super mutant running around that'll sell you poo poo, at least. Why there's robot and super mutant NPCs but they drew the line at "definitely no visible human NPCs" is still a puzzle unto itself

The no human npcs has to do with the main story. Something is killing wveryone.

CharlestonJew
Jul 7, 2011

Your next post will be "im gay"


Illegal Hen

Mr Hootington posted:

The no human npcs has to do with the main story. Something is killing wveryone.

spoilers its the other players

Rincewinds
Jul 30, 2014

MEAT IS MEAT


Yes, I think part of the no npc stick was the realization that the first thing that would happen once players exited the vaults would be that some many all most players would head over to the nearest npc camp to butcher them, before heading over to the next camp to try out their new poo poo and get more shines, rapidly outgearing the players searching dumpsters.

Then you would get people complaining about missing npcs and failed quests, and if they made npcs essential, people complain that they could not loot them and the lack of repercussions, so no npcs ever.

Rincewinds fucked around with this message at Oct 20, 2018 around 23:00

Rinkles
Oct 24, 2010

What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?


Fair Bear Maiden posted:

Sounds like they're hyping up the audio logs and radio stations as if they were NPCs. It's... certainly a marketing tactic.

It seems very misleading.

Lunatic Sledge
Jun 8, 2013

DIE DIE DIETO



Rincewinds posted:

Yes, I think part of the no npc stick was the realization that the first thing that would happen once players exited the vaults would be that some many all most players would head over to the nearest npc camp to butcher them, before heading over to the next camp to try out their new poo poo and get more shines, rapidly outgearing the players searching dumpsters.

Then you would get people complaining about missing npcs and failed quests, and if they made npcs essential, people complain that they could not loot them and the lack of repercussions, so no npcs ever.

it's weird, though, because the half-assed NPCs they have (robot vendors, Grahm) are already not-killable

like, they put in NPCs and made them immortal to prevent griefing

but instead of adding immortal humans they just don't have humans

it's a really strange, specific line for Bethesda to draw

Paul Zuvella
Dec 7, 2011



Lunatic Sledge posted:

it's weird, though, because the half-assed NPCs they have (robot vendors, Grahm) are already not-killable

like, they put in NPCs and made them immortal to prevent griefing

but instead of adding immortal humans they just don't have humans

it's a really strange, specific line for Bethesda to draw

Clearly the answer is that Bethesda cares too much about lore.

Lunatic Sledge
Jun 8, 2013

DIE DIE DIETO



Paul Zuvella posted:

Clearly the answer is that Bethesda cares too much about lore.

a series of holotapes / notes suggesting West Virginia was hit with a Soviet bioweapon, which killed all the humans but made robots and super mutants immune to grenades

Sydney Bottocks
Oct 15, 2004

Eh.


Liquid Cannibalism posted:

Sitting in a chair facing the door, in a party hat and sunglasses.

Edit: But only if you noclip into the room. If you walk in normally you bump a piece of trash on the floor that touches him and causes his bones to catapult around the room.

This reminds me of when I was playing FO4 not that long ago, and after shooting some dudes I bumped into one of their corpses, and motherfucker immediately started doing cartwheels all over the place.

Literally like this:



but in an almost infinite loop.

deathbagel
Jun 10, 2008



Megazver posted:

Yes, that's what a 'bark' is, it's the gamedev term for lines NPCs say when you're nearby or activate them in some manner that isn't actually engaging in proper dialogue. ""I used to be an adventurer like you, then I took an arrow in the knee," "Khajiit has wares if you have coin", etc. Article about them.

This disappoints me. I was REALLY looking forward to trading with a super mutant who thinks he was part (hopefully mostly) dog. They need to add dog boys to the Fallout series. Really, they just need to steal a bunch of the lore from Rifts since that game has a really amazing setting, but absolutely terrible game mechanics.

Lunatic Sledge
Jun 8, 2013

DIE DIE DIETO



deathbagel posted:

This disappoints me. I was REALLY looking forward to trading with a super mutant who thinks he was part (hopefully mostly) dog. They need to add dog boys to the Fallout series. Really, they just need to steal a bunch of the lore from Rifts since that game has a really amazing setting, but absolutely terrible game mechanics.

not going to lie, I also kind of hoped we were just talking about two different super mutant vendors and one of them talked in dog noises

goatsestretchgoals
Jun 4, 2011

in soviet russia, you shove robot

Rincewinds posted:

Yes, I think part of the no npc stick was the realization that the first thing that would happen once players exited the vaults would be that some many all most players would head over to the nearest npc camp to butcher them, before heading over to the next camp to try out their new poo poo and get more shines, rapidly outgearing the players searching dumpsters.

Then you would get people complaining about missing npcs and failed quests, and if they made npcs essential, people complain that they could not loot them and the lack of repercussions, so no npcs ever.

Counterpoint: Flick is unkillable, but he still drops a good pistol.

Tei
Feb 19, 2011



Rinkles posted:

It seems very misleading.

yea, they need to add a asterisk "* not actually ingame". Showing something draw with the engine that is not in the game (and made sense to be in the game) is supermisleading.

Wolfsheim
Dec 23, 2003

His ugliness was the
stuff of legend.

In an age of affordable beauty,
there was something heraldic
about his lack of it.

Lunatic Sledge posted:

it's weird, though, because the half-assed NPCs they have (robot vendors, Grahm) are already not-killable

like, they put in NPCs and made them immortal to prevent griefing

but instead of adding immortal humans they just don't have humans

it's a really strange, specific line for Bethesda to draw

I never cared as much as everyone else about not being able to haphazardly kill every NPC I see (like, it's funny in New Vegas but only as a dumb gimmick, it's not really fun from a gameplay or story perspective), so the idea of having trader towns and such wouldn't bother me at all.

I also just assumed the concept for 76 was gonna be 'there are no humans because this is so soon after the bombs went off that everyone not in the shelter died so only monsters and robots are left' but now it sounds like there's a mystery plot about humans who were there but left? Sounds like kind of a mess!

EDIT: I also liked that glitch in 3 where if you enslave that one guy for Paradise Falls his partner, the other weapons trader guy of Rivet City, basically changes his script to travel between his shop and the guy's cage. But because he's a high-level trader they made him essential, so this basically turns him into an unstoppable one-man gay revenge mission, killing everything in his path with a crappy sawed-off by sheer attrition.

Wolfsheim fucked around with this message at Oct 21, 2018 around 03:56

Rinkles
Oct 24, 2010

What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?


the significance to most players' experience lies less in being able to kill everybody, and more in being able to kill anybody.

Wolfsheim
Dec 23, 2003

His ugliness was the
stuff of legend.

In an age of affordable beauty,
there was something heraldic
about his lack of it.

Rinkles posted:

the significance to most players' experience lies less in being able to kill everybody, and more in being able to kill anybody.

I just don't see the value of being able to kill, like, essential traders and such. Like New Vegas did it with the Vendortron behind bulletproof glass but that's functionally identical to 'this character is unconscious' messages

Honestly it's so far from the biggest problem in Bethesda games (especially a shitshow like 76) but people always sound off on it.

Tei
Feb 19, 2011



Wolfsheim posted:

I just don't see the value of being able to kill, like, essential traders and such. Like New Vegas did it with the Vendortron behind bulletproof glass but that's functionally identical to 'this character is unconscious' messages

is a matter of player agenda and meaning.

if you can kill the leader of a faction early, that faction story from that point has to change. In a reactive game thats how it work ( Fallout New Vegas, Alpha Protocol)

for people that like this, it feels like high quality ... is hard to translate. It made me really happy to see leaders of the factions where labeled in Assasin Creed Odyssey.
I never actually tried to kill one and probably the game is not reactive, but only the label already make me feel I am on a world where my actions matter.

Is very hard to make a game where everything has to take into account the murdering of npcs, so few games do. Games like Skyrim solve it by making unimportant npcs killable, but important npcs not killable. I think is a good compromise, since theres so few people that can make reactive games.

Tei fucked around with this message at Oct 21, 2018 around 04:15

Lunatic Sledge
Jun 8, 2013

DIE DIE DIETO



yeah, like, I wouldn't mind if they put in invincible humans, it just feels like a half measure to have invincible robots and invincible super mutants but no humans at all

likewise, I wouldn't care if they got rid of VATS, but right now it feels like a half measure where they TOTALLY GOTTA HAVE IT but its implementation is just "timeslow:off"

there's a lot of really weak compromises in the design, instead of just saying "it's a new type of game, gently caress off" and committing to changes

Wolfsheim
Dec 23, 2003

His ugliness was the
stuff of legend.

In an age of affordable beauty,
there was something heraldic
about his lack of it.

Tei posted:

is a matter of player agenda and meaning.

if you can kill the leader of a faction early, that faction story from that point has to change. In a reactive game thats how it work ( Fallout New Vegas, Alpha Protocol)

for people that like this, it feels like high quality ... is hard to translate. It made me really happy to see leaders of the factions where labeled in Assasin Creed Odyssey.
I never actually tried to kill one and probably the game is not reactive, but only the label already make me feel I am on a world where my actions matter.

Is very hard to make a game where everything has to take into account the murdering of npcs, so few games do. Games like Skyrim solve it by making unimportant npcs killable, but important npcs not killable. I think is a good compromise, since theres so few people that can make reactive games.

Yeeeeeah but 'I randomly walked up and killed a guy then ran away' is on the same level as 'look at the stories that come out of building a settlement and doing radiant quests' unless the game really reacts to it. Like, killing Maxson in F4 because you abused the physics engine to slowly push him off the walkway to plummet to his death isn't real storytelling, that's just the engine being bad. Getting a quest to sneak aboard the Prydwen under a fake identity and kill Maxson because he's trying to kill off the Railroad is an actual consequence of plot decisions you made and is cool (and one of the few good examples of strong reactivity in F4).

Alpha Protocol (which is amazing) doesn't really have this problem because anyone you kill is gonna be a deliberate scripted choice in a game all about reactivity and scripted choices, you can't accidentally kill your love interest with a chair because Gamebryo freaked out and launched it at her head at 300 mph because you picked up a piece of cheese nearby.

I guess I'm saying it's weird to balance the demands of having real quests and such with 'go anywhere, do anything, hoard cheese in your house' that Bethesda does, but you go too far in either direction and it falls flat. If someone else was doing it better (outside of exactly one example, New Vegas) I'd probably cut them less slack but it's a tough issue from a design perspective.

A Sometimes Food
Dec 8, 2010

I'm kidding



Wolfsheim posted:

Yeeeeeah but 'I randomly walked up and killed a guy then ran away' is on the same level as 'look at the stories that come out of building a settlement and doing radiant quests' unless the game really reacts to it. Like, killing Maxson in F4 because you abused the physics engine to slowly push him off the walkway to plummet to his death isn't real storytelling, that's just the engine being bad. Getting a quest to sneak aboard the Prydwen under a fake identity and kill Maxson because he's trying to kill off the Railroad is an actual consequence of plot decisions you made and is cool (and one of the few good examples of strong reactivity in F4).


Yeah but like "kill Maxxon early so now the Brotherhood is lashing out but aimless and maybe has succession issues" would be a rad outcome. That's what people want. I don't think most people want "kill maxxon early through glitches and the bos storyline breaks" people want "kill Maxxon early and the game acknowledges and reacts to it somewhat interestingly". Like even just a New Vegas style "this faction is perma hostile and there's npc barks and companion dialogue about offing them" would be fine in most cases.

And like, Fallout 4 was mostly a step up in this regard, there were a lot more options for reactivity and a lot less infuriating "you must do incredibly stupid thing" than in Skyrim in spite of all the Sean stuff. Like I can't think of anything in Fallout 4 as annoying as the Thieves Guild in Skyrim for example.

Clawtopsy
Dec 17, 2009

Whassup! My homies!
Vive la France!


the fact that the synth with the minigun had a scripted death annoyed me to no end

Father Wendigo
Sep 28, 2005
This is, sadly, more important to me than bettering myself.

Clawtopsy posted:

the fact that the synth with the minigun had a scripted death annoyed me to no end

It hurt even more because her VA is one of the few engaging voices in the game, and Glory's gritty 'keep it professional and matter-of-fact, no mopey bullshit in the field' personality is a commodity when you have companionship like Piper, Macready, and Cait.

SwitchbladeKult
Apr 4, 2012


He may now be posting...
for MURDER!


Lunatic Sledge posted:

there's a lot of really weak compromises in the design, instead of just saying "it's a new type of game, gently caress off" and committing to changes

Yeah. It feels like they wanted to bring some bold new ideas to the table with 76 but papa Zenimax said no and as a result we have this mess of broken lore and half implemented concepts.

Arcsquad12
Mar 4, 2013

I Love Satan


I've never really felt like Zenimax has been that overbearing on Bethesda's projects. We really don't hear about their shareholders demanding big changes or money making schemes. Bethesda is really only spoken for by Todd or Pete in public. It's certainly not as blatantly apparent as the kind of meddling EA does with their studios.

moosetoucher
Jul 11, 2017

heck. heckin heck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h-ry8ORyus

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Mr Hootington
Jul 24, 2008


https://twitter.com/Fallout/status/...5769380864?s=19

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