Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
«67 »
  • Post
  • Reply
ToxicSlurpee
Nov 5, 2003

-=SEND HELP=-




Pillbug

Mr E posted:

I'm starting a new New Vegas playthrough. I haven't really played an evil/rear end in a top hat playthrough, but I hate Caesar's Legion and don't wanna join them. Can I still play through fine and without joining them while still being kinda evil?

Yup. You can do basically any faction as a total bastard. You could even go the super ultra selfish route of "Vegas is mine and nobody else's and I'm going to murder and eat everything and everybody I want to."

MikeJF posted:

The main reason people prefer 3 to 4 is that 4 is just unfinished, nonsensical and often just irritating, even if it is more mature than 3 in many ways.

Fallout 4 is unpolished and buggy as hell. Fallout 3 felt more like a Fallout game just because of all the insane poo poo going on. Granted like was said the supermutants quit being scary and started being pushovers but other than that it felt like digging around in the ruins as best you could. Braun is probably one of the most Fallout things to ever happen in the series and showed how nakedly immoral the Vault experiment actually was. Imperfect as it was Fallout 3 was obviously crafted with more attention and care than 4.

4 doesn't even know what the gently caress it wants to be.

ToxicSlurpee fucked around with this message at Jan 31, 2018 around 08:47

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Internet Kraken
Apr 24, 2010

slightly amused


Depopulate the entire world so its just you, Yes Man, and the respawning raider hordes.

JawKnee
Mar 24, 2007

BORN TO PLAY
BENNING IS A FUCK
冰球神
Score Em All 2018
I am a goal man
410,757,864,530 SNIPED SHOTS


an excuse to post this again https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLJ1gyIzg78

Prokhor Zakharov
Dec 31, 2008
Good luck with your depression!


What I don't get about F4 is who at Bethesda high command was so intensely enamoured with the immensely lovely and plot hole ridden synth body snatcher concept that they literally designed a AAA solely around it.

Like there's a thousand great stories that could be told in Fallout even just sticking to established canon and they went with that!?

Well that and establishing the main character with all predetermined background, physical traits, and crappy voice acting. The man gets to be a badass war hero, the woman gets to be...a lawyer? Who was just inexplicably good with guns and an expert survivalist?

Neurolimal
Nov 3, 2012

I'M CURRENTLY SCULPTING A LEATHERDADDY STAND-IN FOR ZARAKYNEL, COMPLETE WITH
ANDREW CHRISTIAN LEVELS OF PACKAGE


Prokhor Zakharov posted:

all predetermined background

To be fair, FNV technically has this; before the Courier is shot in the head and loses his memory he's an entirely independent character. It was a neat way to introduce uninformed player agency to an adult developed character.

(Spoilered since some are just trying out FNV for the first time) No matter how you play the Courier, he/she still accepted the job to nuke Hopeville

Neurolimal fucked around with this message at Jan 31, 2018 around 10:19

dont be mean to me
May 2, 2007

I'm interplanetary, bitch
Let's go to Mars




Neurolimal posted:

(Spoilered since some are just trying out FNV for the first time) No matter how you play the Courier, he/she still accepted the job to nuke Hopeville

This is a dramatic mischaracterization bordering on the malicious.

Unless you think the Courier decided that murdering two entire cities with a robot with a city-murdering shell script was cool and good, even though they couldn't have known that it had one.

Unless a cheat character got blown out of their brains in the opening cinematics.

Or you're ODing on whatever Ulysses ODed on.

Samuel Clemens
Oct 4, 2013

I think we should call the Avengers.



Psychotic Weasel posted:

My main beef with Fallout 1 was the drat time limit. If you take too long to beat the game you get locked into the worst endings no matter what. Who the hell creates this giant, open world for you to explore and grow in then slaps a time limit on it?

Genuine question: Has anyone ever hit the time limit in Fallout 1? Unless you're deliberately walking around the desert for weeks on end, I just don't see how it's possible.

dont be mean to me
May 2, 2007

I'm interplanetary, bitch
Let's go to Mars




Samuel Clemens posted:

Genuine question: Has anyone ever hit the time limit in Fallout 1? Unless you're deliberately walking around the desert for weeks on end, I just don't see how it's possible.

150/400/500 are not the only time limits.

Some of the settlements that need to survive for your ending to even pretend to be canon die horribly unless you speedrun and maybe not even then (even if you patch the ending check bugs).

Berke Negri
Feb 15, 2012

The Yanks kill and me I read Mao Mao
The jester is king and me I sing
Mao Mao
The bombs go off and me I scoff
Mao Mao
Girls run and me I follow
Mao Mao


Fargin Icehole posted:

Love the thread title. gently caress No Mutants allowed

apologies, you're in it

Neurolimal
Nov 3, 2012

I'M CURRENTLY SCULPTING A LEATHERDADDY STAND-IN FOR ZARAKYNEL, COMPLETE WITH
ANDREW CHRISTIAN LEVELS OF PACKAGE


dont be mean to me posted:

This is a dramatic mischaracterization bordering on the malicious.

Unless you think the Courier decided that murdering two entire cities with a robot with a city-murdering shell script was cool and good, even though they couldn't have known that it had one.

Unless a cheat character got blown out of their brains in the opening cinematics.

Or you're ODing on whatever Ulysses ODed on.


He doesn't have to have known what was in the package he delivered to still have accepted and been responsible for its delivery. That's an action the player has no control over, because the player character doesn't begin until the courier's past memory dies

Ulysses' point was that ignorance doesn't absolve you of responsibility; the courier blew up a town capable of converting amoral frumentarii, legion, and NCR alike. He teaches the player character that when he leads you to the launch button to blow up Hopeville a second time.

dont be mean to me
May 2, 2007

I'm interplanetary, bitch
Let's go to Mars




Neurolimal posted:

He doesn't have to have known what was in the package he delivered to still have accepted and been responsible for its delivery. That's an action the player has no control over, because the player character doesn't begin until the courier's past memory dies

Ulysses' point was that ignorance doesn't absolve you of responsibility; the courier blew up a town capable of converting amoral frumentarii, legion, and NCR alike. He teaches the player character that when he leads you to the launch button to blow up Hopeville a second time.

Then let's go make a mod for the Courier to kill themselves. Short playthrough but it's the only ethical option, right?

Neurolimal
Nov 3, 2012

I'M CURRENTLY SCULPTING A LEATHERDADDY STAND-IN FOR ZARAKYNEL, COMPLETE WITH
ANDREW CHRISTIAN LEVELS OF PACKAGE


dont be mean to me posted:

Then let's go make a mod for the Courier to kill themselves. Short playthrough but it's the only ethical option, right?

Well, now you're just being flippant.

If the point was "kill yourself because that's the only ethical choice" then you wouldn't be able to persuade Ulysses otherwise.

dont be mean to me
May 2, 2007

I'm interplanetary, bitch
Let's go to Mars




Neurolimal posted:

Well, now you're just being flippant.

If the point was "kill yourself because that's the only ethical choice" then you wouldn't be able to persuade Ulysses otherwise.

Why would I care what Ulysses thinks?

Neurolimal
Nov 3, 2012

I'M CURRENTLY SCULPTING A LEATHERDADDY STAND-IN FOR ZARAKYNEL, COMPLETE WITH
ANDREW CHRISTIAN LEVELS OF PACKAGE


dont be mean to me posted:

Why would I care what Ulysses thinks?

Because he's one of the most informed characters in the setting, knows who the courier was before the Player personality manifested, and the proponent of the idea that you should die for what you did. If even he can be convinced that you aren't beyond redemption then there's probably truth there.

He's also responsible for the Player's existence in the first place, having rejected the platinum chip delivery himself on the belief that you'd be killed delivering it.

Neurolimal fucked around with this message at Jan 31, 2018 around 11:18

dont be mean to me
May 2, 2007

I'm interplanetary, bitch
Let's go to Mars




Neurolimal posted:

Because he's one of the most informed characters in the setting, knows who the courier was before the Player personality manifested, and the proponent of the idea that you should die for what you did. If even he can be convinced that you aren't beyond redemption then there's probably truth there.

He's also responsible for the Player's existence in the first place, having rejected the platinum chip delivery himself on the belief that you'd be killed delivering it.

You still haven't put together a compelling argument for why the nuclear terrorist who carried water for the wasteland's most prolific slaver for most of his reign deserves to even live, let alone why the Courier should have to appease him to justify their own continued existence.

Hell, you haven't even established that it IS the only way for the Courier to justify their own continued existence - and that 'probably' says that you think even that might not be enough! So what WOULD actually not-just-probably justify the Courier's continued existence to you?

Or that the revenge angle is anything more than a plot hook.

dont be mean to me fucked around with this message at Jan 31, 2018 around 11:53

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012


I'm just stuck on the amnesia claims. Rope kid could correct me, because the memory is not fresh, but I'm pretty sure your character's memories are intact.

Avalerion
Oct 19, 2012


I donít think the courier is supposed to have memory loss. Though he does get to ask stuff he should know, he also gets to make refferences to his past at other times - guitar guy looking for his dad bening an early example I remember.

dont be mean to me
May 2, 2007

I'm interplanetary, bitch
Let's go to Mars




chiasaur11 posted:

I'm just stuck on the amnesia claims. Rope kid could correct me, because the memory is not fresh, but I'm pretty sure your character's memories are intact.

Where did I claim amnesia? Where did I even bring up amnesia?

Nobody's disputing that the Courier didn't remember they took a robot into town and then the robot made the town blow up. Of course they did.

The dispute is that either A) the Courier knew that the robot would make the town blow up, or that B) the Courier SHOULD have known that the robot would make the town blow up, or that C) the Courier could not possibly have known that the robot would make the town blow up but deserves to die regardless.

Avalerion
Oct 19, 2012


Neurolimal posted:

before the Courier is shot in the head and loses his memory

This guy did.

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

dont be mean to me posted:

Where did I claim amnesia? Where did I even bring up amnesia?

Nobody's disputing that the Courier didn't remember they took a robot into town and then the robot made the town blow up. Of course they did.

The dispute is that either A) the Courier knew that the robot would make the town blow up, or that B) the Courier SHOULD have known that the robot would make the town blow up, or that C) the Courier could not possibly have known that the robot would make the town blow up but deserves to die regardless.


Hell even Ulysses doesn't think you deserve to die for it. Not until he's successfully rubbed your face in it anyway. Also he didn't carry water for Caesar so much as being enslaved by him

Freaking Crumbum
Apr 17, 2003

Too fuck to drunk


honestly, I was really hoping that the whole "where is SHAAAAAAWN" plot of FO4 would turn out that both the protagonist's son and the people that kidnapped him have been dead and gone for years by the time the protagonist actually thaws out, and all of the protagonist's strife and internal conflict was for nothing. the end - no moral!

Megazver
Jan 13, 2006


Ulysses is a disgustingly over-written, obtuse, and the worst example of Chris Avellone believing his own hype and crawling up his own rear end. I had to consult the wiki after playing the final DLC to figure out what the gently caress all that word diarrhea was about.

Neurolimal
Nov 3, 2012

I'M CURRENTLY SCULPTING A LEATHERDADDY STAND-IN FOR ZARAKYNEL, COMPLETE WITH
ANDREW CHRISTIAN LEVELS OF PACKAGE


dont be mean to me posted:

You still haven't put together a compelling argument for why the nuclear terrorist who carried water for the wasteland's most prolific slaver for most of his reign deserves to even live, let alone why the Courier should have to appease him to justify their own continued existence.

Hell, you haven't even established that it IS the only way for the Courier to justify their own continued existence - and that 'probably' says that you think even that might not be enough! So what WOULD actually not-just-probably justify the Courier's continued existence to you?

Or that the revenge angle is anything more than a plot hook.

He and his tribe was enslaved by Caesar. He didn't make the decision to work for him. In fact, the moment he had an opportunity he abandoned the Legion, it makes no sense to hold this against him. He wants to get rid of the Legion and NCR both because he recognizes them as imperfect nations, and because they both destroyed his homes. He deserves to live because nobody deserves to die for the crime of getting their homes destroyed and being enslaved.

I never said it was the only way to justify the Courier's existence; you're the first person to even bring up that the Courier should die, as a flippant response to me suggesting that the Courier was responsible for getting Hopeville blown up. He's not the arbiter of why the Courier should survive, but the fact that the person who has the most deserved grudge against the Courier can be persuaded to his side is a compelling reason why the Courier is not beyond redemption for his mistakes.

chiasaur11 posted:

I'm just stuck on the amnesia claims. Rope kid could correct me, because the memory is not fresh, but I'm pretty sure your character's memories are intact.

It's pretty easy to assume that from the fact that you, the player, the person playing the Courier, knows nothing about the Courier's past, and only gained control over him after he was shot directly in the head. Especially since your first main mission is to head to the office you received the package from, to find out where you were going to deliver it.

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

The first thing you do in the game is tell a guy your name and discuss your medical history, and the player already knows where the package was going to be delivered because you have the delivery order in your inventory

Neurolimal
Nov 3, 2012

I'M CURRENTLY SCULPTING A LEATHERDADDY STAND-IN FOR ZARAKYNEL, COMPLETE WITH
ANDREW CHRISTIAN LEVELS OF PACKAGE


2house2fly posted:

The first thing you do in the game is tell a guy your name and discuss your medical history, and the player already knows where the package was going to be delivered because you have the delivery order in your inventory

Said medical history and name are entirely up to the player's discretion. You don't know the courier's name and medical history because you don't know anything about them, you're just making it up as it suits you.

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

Yeah because you're creating the character

Neurolimal
Nov 3, 2012

I'M CURRENTLY SCULPTING A LEATHERDADDY STAND-IN FOR ZARAKYNEL, COMPLETE WITH
ANDREW CHRISTIAN LEVELS OF PACKAGE


2house2fly posted:

Yeah because you're creating the character

Except the character has already done stuff in the universe. In prior fallout games and most RPG's your character has done nothing before you create them (because they didn't exist before creation). The courier has a history attached to them beyond the player's control.

This isn't exactly a new concept from Obsidian. Alpha Protocol played with the fact that you were not creating a character, but rather choosing the approaches the existing character would take to achieve his goals.

LashLightning
Feb 20, 2010

Listen, and understand. Steven is out there. He can be bargained with. He can be reasoned with. He feels pity, remorse, and fear. And he absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are his friend.


"My name? Yeah, my name is-" *bullet shrapnel rattle about in brain case* "Dongs McGoon. Yeah, that must be it."

Leroy Dennui
Aug 9, 2014

Fuck this gay MOTHER Earth.

dont be mean to me posted:

150/400/500 are not the only time limits.

Some of the settlements that need to survive for your ending to even pretend to be canon die horribly unless you speedrun and maybe not even then (even if you patch the ending check bugs).

From what I can recall, Necropolis is the only one that has this implemented, and even then you can avoid it by never returning there after retrieving the Water Chip, which sucks since you don't get to see Set's elated response to the Master's death unless you do things wildly out of order. Places like Junktown and the BoS have existing "razed by mutants" maps, but they aren't programmed to ever show up.

Razor's gang is bugged to have them often say "Razor got killed by the regulators" after helping them, even though she'll be standing there alive and ready to reward you. I think I even once finished the quest and returned to the map to see her only to find a pair of pants standing erect.

The Hub will disperse no matter what happens in your game.

dont be mean to me
May 2, 2007

I'm interplanetary, bitch
Let's go to Mars




Neurolimal posted:

He and his tribe was enslaved by Caesar. He didn't make the decision to work for him. In fact, the moment he had an opportunity he abandoned the Legion, it makes no sense to hold this against him. He wants to get rid of the Legion and NCR both because he recognizes them as imperfect nations, and because they both destroyed his homes. He deserves to live because nobody deserves to die for the crime of getting their homes destroyed and being enslaved.

Bad choice of words, perhaps.

Ulysses ought expect the consequences of being an exterminator of hundreds and hundreds of people on several occasions, and of being a clear and present threat of extermination of literal millions of people on the occasion presented in Lonesome Road. Perhaps in the real world that would get him a lifetime stay at a Nordic-administered International Court of Justice social rehabilitation retreat, but in a place where most societies consider misdemeanors to be capital offenses, no points for guessing what that consequence is likely to be. In any case, that clear and present threat means the Courier is left with only a few options - manage a meeting of the minds with Ulysses, which is definitely not up to the Courier alone; consign Ulysses to death; consign good portions of the Southwest's population to death. Arguably no one deserves to die at all, and no one deserves to decide the lives of others, but defense of self and others is fairly well established both ethically and in the theologies the Courier is likely to encounter traveling the Mojave and neighboring lands, the Courier alone has been brought to and left with this decision by Ulysses and his machinations, and you would need some extremely creative argument to justify Ulysses' life over that of much of the Southwest's population. If he lives, marvelous. If not, welp.

Being conquered does not relieve him of these consequences. Being enslaved might, if slavery constitutes principal or constructive obliteration of his personal autonomy and agency. This isn't too uncommon in the Legion (arguably, with the apparatus and mythology of the Legion, this has happened even to Caesar!) so this is an easy generalization to make.

The problem with generalizing this concept out to Ulysses is that he is a frumentarius, and exceptional even for them. Frumentarii in general have among the greatest latitude and opportunity for perspective afforded anyone in the wasteland, and it's surprisingly easy for someone of talent or means to purposely lose themselves in a place like the Mojave. Or Utah. (Speaking of Utah: Ulysses' first opportunity to abandon the Legion was after the sacking of New Canaan? Really? It might have been the breaking point for him but first opportunity?) Whether the Legion will attempt retribution is answered at Wolfhorn Ranch. (Speaking of ethics: bringing another person into a life like Ulysses'.)

Neurolimal posted:

I never said it was the only way to justify the Courier's existence; you're the first person to even bring up that the Courier should die, as a flippant response to me suggesting that the Courier was responsible for getting Hopeville blown up. He's not the arbiter of why the Courier should survive, but the fact that the person who has the most deserved grudge against the Courier can be persuaded to his side is a compelling reason why the Courier is not beyond redemption for his mistakes.

You believe that the Courier should be held accountable for a mass murder which they could not have known about, by virtue of, from the Courier's perspective, carrying junk to a place. How does that responsibility/accountability even attach? "They carried thing, so gently caress 'em"?

Why need the Courier be redeemed? It's up to the player to determine whether the Courier is a person of faith, and 'deliverance from sin' is profoundly theological. At least atonement makes sense in a secular context, but if the Courier IS "responsible", that atonement will at least be life-long, and the opinion of one person isn't going to alter the course of such atonement much - and how the Courier handles a potential nuclear attack perpetrated by that one person would speak far louder. What consequences should the Courier expect? (Asked and answered.) In any case, the Courier is under no external obligation to justify themselves to Ulysses in particular, especially in this moment (you could argue an obligation to Ulysses, but that's probably overridden by the nuclear terrorism) and any internal obligation would be up to the player! If they can manage it, marvelous. If not, welp.

EDIT: Another thought occurs: When does the Courier learn that the 'broken' eyebot that someone had sent to Hopeville had destroyed it? If it's upon entering the Lonesome Road, then responsibility and accountability are up to the player, at least outside the Divide. Ulysses might have opinions but he's not publishing them on Radio New Vegas, whether or not he survives.

dont be mean to me fucked around with this message at Jan 31, 2018 around 14:12

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

Leroy Dennui posted:

From what I can recall, Necropolis is the only one that has this implemented, and even then you can avoid it by never returning there after retrieving the Water Chip, which sucks since you don't get to see Set's elated response to the Master's death unless you do things wildly out of order. Places like Junktown and the BoS have existing "razed by mutants" maps, but they aren't programmed to ever show up.

Razor's gang is bugged to have them often say "Razor got killed by the regulators" after helping them, even though she'll be standing there alive and ready to reward you. I think I even once finished the quest and returned to the map to see her only to find a pair of pants standing erect.

The Hub will disperse no matter what happens in your game.

The Followers are bugged to always be wiped out as well

Avalerion
Oct 19, 2012


Do we need to be spoiler tagging this stuff? If you get mailed a letter bomb or whatever the responsibility is with whoever made and send it, not with the post man.

Neurolimal
Nov 3, 2012

I'M CURRENTLY SCULPTING A LEATHERDADDY STAND-IN FOR ZARAKYNEL, COMPLETE WITH
ANDREW CHRISTIAN LEVELS OF PACKAGE


dont be mean to me posted:

Bad choice of words, perhaps.

Ulysses ought expect the consequences of being an exterminator of hundreds and hundreds of people on several occasions, and of being a clear and present threat of extermination of literal millions of people on the occasion presented in Lonesome Road. Perhaps in the real world that would get him a lifetime stay at a Nordic-administered International Court of Justice social rehabilitation retreat, but in a place where most societies consider misdemeanors to be capital offenses, no points for guessing what that consequence is likely to be. In any case, that clear and present threat means the Courier is left with only a few options - manage a meeting of the minds with Ulysses, which is definitely not up to the Courier alone; consign Ulysses to death; consign good portions of the Southwest's population to death. Arguably no one deserves to die at all, and no one deserves to decide the lives of others, but defense of self and others is fairly well established both ethically and in the theologies the Courier is likely to encounter traveling the Mojave and neighboring lands, the Courier has been brought to this decision by Ulysses and his machinations, and you would need some extremely creative argument to justify Ulysses' life over that of much of the Southwest's population.

Being conquered does not relieve him of these consequences. Being enslaved might, if slavery constitutes principal or constructive obliteration of his personal autonomy and agency. This isn't too uncommon in the Legion (arguably, with the apparatus and mythology of the Legion, this has happened even to Caesar!) so this is an easy generalization to make.

The problem with generalizing this concept out to Ulysses is that he is a frumentarius, and exceptional even for them. Frumentarii in general have among the greatest latitude and opportunity for perspective afforded anyone in the wasteland, and it's surprisingly easy for someone of talent or means to purposely lose themselves in a place like the Mojave. Or Utah. (Speaking of Utah: Ulysses' first opportunity to abandon the Legion was after the sacking of New Canaan? Really? It might have been the breaking point for him but first opportunity?) Whether the Legion will attempt retribution is answered at Wolfhorn Ranch. (Speaking of ethics: bringing another person into a life like Ulysses'.)

All fair points, and although I might be mistaken, I believe that it's hinted at that a part of Ulysses' blame is a projection of his own guilt, hence why if you persuade him he doesn't leave the Divide, instead watching over it to make sure noone sneaks in to steal/launch any nukes


quote:

You believe that the Courier should be held accountable for a mass murder which they could not have known about, by virtue of, from the Courier's perspective, carrying junk to a place. How does that responsibility/accountability even attach? "They carried thing, so gently caress 'em"?

They aren't sole responsible or even the primary person responsible, but at the end of the day they did deliver that package unaware of what was in it. It's why most countries have post offices that check for contraband and suspicious packages; having those checks in place might not prevent all malicious deliveries, but you'd still hold it against the government if such happened and there wasn't a check in place. We're basically in the third person seat of a pretty common moral dilemma in an RPG, where the protagonist is tasked with delivering a package and explicitly told not to look inside. It just so happens Old Courier decided to make the choice of delivering without looking inside.

Avalerion posted:

Do we need to be spoiler tagging this stuff? [spoiler]If you get mailed a letter bomb or whatever the responsibility is with whoever made and send it, not with the post man.

Someone in the thread mentioned playing NV for the first time, so I figured it was the polite thing to do. This probably should move to the (still active) New Vegas thread since it's gotten long in the tooth, yeah.

eating only apples
Dec 12, 2009

Though you reach out in compassion, I must now insist that you forget.


Lipstick Apathy

Freaking Crumbum posted:

honestly, I was really hoping that the whole "where is SHAAAAAAWN" plot of FO4 would turn out that both the protagonist's son and the people that kidnapped him have been dead and gone for years by the time the protagonist actually thaws out, and all of the protagonist's strife and internal conflict was for nothing. the end - no moral!

This would've been a better ending for Nick Valentine's quest too. Just a bunker with a skeleton.

Freaking Crumbum
Apr 17, 2003

Too fuck to drunk


I'm struggling to remember, but was there any obvious sub-plot threading through FO4 that hinted at where they wanted the next game to take place? like, in FO3 there's a whole bunch of quests surrounding synths and the railroad and the fact that the guard in Rivet City is a synth but had his memory hosed with so hard, he's literally forgotten about it. I can't think of any kind of equivalent stuff in FO4, but maybe I'm forgetting.

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

Freaking Crumbum posted:

honestly, I was really hoping that the whole "where is SHAAAAAAWN" plot of FO4 would turn out that both the protagonist's son and the people that kidnapped him have been dead and gone for years by the time the protagonist actually thaws out, and all of the protagonist's strife and internal conflict was for nothing. the end - no moral!

You kind of get that, I mean what kind of bonding can you realistically do with Shaun in the state you find him. I like the game's big message being that there's no such thing as the status quo and everything can change in an instant, something I'm preoccupied with a lot due to the terrifying unpredictability of my standard-working-class-American daily life, even as I can't stand the actual story itself

MikeJF
Dec 20, 2003



Freaking Crumbum posted:

I'm struggling to remember, but was there any obvious sub-plot threading through FO4 that hinted at where they wanted the next game to take place? like, in FO3 there's a whole bunch of quests surrounding synths and the railroad and the fact that the guard in Rivet City is a synth but had his memory hosed with so hard, he's literally forgotten about it. I can't think of any kind of equivalent stuff in FO4, but maybe I'm forgetting.

The only hook I can think of is the terminal going on about the Prydwin passing over New York, skyscrapers full of mutants. Nothing big, though.

Unless the Yangtze is a hook, which would be awesome.

MikeJF fucked around with this message at Jan 31, 2018 around 15:14

Halser
Aug 24, 2016


Neurolimal posted:

He and his tribe was enslaved by Caesar. He didn't make the decision to work for him. In fact, the moment he had an opportunity he abandoned the Legion, it makes no sense to hold this against him. He wants to get rid of the Legion and NCR both because he recognizes them as imperfect nations, and because they both destroyed his homes. He deserves to live because nobody deserves to die for the crime of getting their homes destroyed and being enslaved.

I never said it was the only way to justify the Courier's existence; you're the first person to even bring up that the Courier should die, as a flippant response to me suggesting that the Courier was responsible for getting Hopeville blown up. He's not the arbiter of why the Courier should survive, but the fact that the person who has the most deserved grudge against the Courier can be persuaded to his side is a compelling reason why the Courier is not beyond redemption for his mistakes.


It's pretty easy to assume that from the fact that you, the player, the person playing the Courier, knows nothing about the Courier's past, and only gained control over him after he was shot directly in the head. Especially since your first main mission is to head to the office you received the package from, to find out where you were going to deliver it.

I think I heard a guy in youtube make a compelling argument here. It's left for the player's discretion to make it easier to roleplay in the first and subsequent playthroughs.

First playthrough, especially for someone that doesn't know much about the setting? Bullet caused some amnesia, so you have a reason to be asking stupid poo poo like "what's the NCR ".
Second playthrough, bullet didn't do much, so you're 100% justified in knowing everything and not asking any questions about the setting.


2house2fly posted:

You kind of get that, I mean what kind of bonding can you realistically do with Shaun in the state you find him. I like the game's big message being that there's no such thing as the status quo and everything can change in an instant, something I'm preoccupied with a lot due to the terrifying unpredictability of my standard-working-class-American daily life, even as I can't stand the actual story itself

The bonding I did with Robo-shaun was to send him to spectacle island, release the 17 caged deathclaws I captured there, and have fun watching the hunt.

Freaking Crumbum
Apr 17, 2003

Too fuck to drunk


MikeJF posted:

The only hook I can think of is the terminal going on about the Prydwin passing over New York, skyscrapers full of mutants. Nothing big, though.

Unless the Yangtze is a hook, which would be awesome.

having the next game take place entirely outside of the US would actually be a really bold move that they could use to reinvigorate the series and inject whatever lore they wanted, since the rest of the world is basically a blank slate.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

chitoryu12
Apr 23, 2014
Probation
Can't post for 4 days!


Glazius posted:

You don't need perks to craft the standard item in any gun slot.

...well, maybe you did. I don't know if they patched that or not, but in the base game as it currently stands, there's a perk-free craft for every weapon slot. It does still need materials, though, but those aren't usually rare or in huge numbers for the base item.

Yes, that probably means that if you see a gun with a part you want, you have to hope you've just scrounged enough scrap for the basic version and a wild workbench has appeared, or cart the whole thing back to wherever you have a base set up. That's why I install Salvage Beacons.

You're correct, you don't need perks. However, you do often need specific small parts like springs that you can't get from breaking down items unless you get the requisite perks. Without them, you're stuck getting 1 or 2 Steel for breaking down an entire gun and still effectively unable to craft the standard parts.

The mod I got makes those standard parts free (if you want a greater challenge, it makes the shortest barrels free and standard-length barrels still require crafting) so you can effectively pull pieces off the guns you find and get to building guns immediately.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply
«67 »