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The Skeleton King
Jul 16, 2011

Right now undead are at the top of my shit list. Undead are complete fuckers. Those geists are fuckers. Necromancers are fuckers. Necrosavants are big time fuckers. Skeletons aren't too bad except when they bleed everyone in the company. Zombos are at least not too bad.


The institute could easily just be written as an Enclave funded pre war program that has decided to use its Snatchers (tm) to try and control the commonwealth from the shadows.

Instead it's some science idiots who built intelligent, free thinking robots for slave labor for reasons unknown, has no stated goal in mind, and is run by your idiot son that nobody on earth ever cared about. Why are some synths trying to replace real people? Why are they building robots with free will if they only want mindless slaves? Why did they send "kill em all" Kellogg to the vault to retrieve a child when there was 20+ adults that would work equally well that he just killed?

gently caress the institute, and gently caress Shaun.

Then here's the Railroad who have a painted red line that everyone in diamond city knows about going straight to their secret base, which is locked with the brilliant password which is loving "Railroad". They're super concerned about synth's rights when right across the loving street there's super mutants eating people. It's dumb.

The brotherhood are also idiots.

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LashLightning
Feb 20, 2010

Listen, and understand. Steven is out there. He can be bargained with. He can be reasoned with. He feels pity, remorse, and fear. And he absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are his friend.


The Skeleton King posted:

Then here's the Railroad who have a painted red line that everyone in diamond city knows about going straight to their secret base, which is locked with the brilliant password which is loving "Railroad". They're super concerned about synth's rights when right across the loving street there's super mutants eating people. It's dumb.

The whole thing with the synths is causing instability in the region that allows the super mutants to go around eating people. You deal with the exploitation of the synths - which frees people up to dealing with the super mutants. Plus some of the railroad ARE synths, so you'd think they'd care a bit about the subjugation of their people y'know?

And the red line thing is just so that the average player could find their way and feel good about it. I guess the other option could have been that a railroad operative gets into contact with you once you've made a small mark in the Commonwealth.

Freaking Crumbum
Apr 17, 2003

Too fuck to drunk


chitoryu12 posted:

You're correct, you don't need perks. However, you do often need specific small parts like springs that you can't get from breaking down items unless you get the requisite perks. Without them, you're stuck getting 1 or 2 Steel for breaking down an entire gun and still effectively unable to craft the standard parts.

The mod I got makes those standard parts free (if you want a greater challenge, it makes the shortest barrels free and standard-length barrels still require crafting) so you can effectively pull pieces off the guns you find and get to building guns immediately.

are you opposed to scrounging thru junk for parts? because all of the "rare" gun parts are actually pretty common if you know what to look for. the perk that lets you get "rare" parts from common garbage is basically for people that are being lazy about scavenging, but I've never had a problem finding whatever part was needed for a particular upgrade. the bigger issue is that certain mods are gated behind level-locked perks, so even if you've got the right pieces, you can't make the actual mod until you're arbitrarily level 31 or whatever.


The Skeleton King posted:

The institute could easily just be written as an Enclave funded pre war program that has decided to use its Snatchers (tm) to try and control the commonwealth from the shadows.

Instead it's some science idiots who built intelligent, free thinking robots for slave labor for reasons unknown, has no stated goal in mind, and is run by your idiot son that nobody on earth ever cared about. Why are some synths trying to replace real people? Why are they building robots with free will if they only want mindless slaves? Why did they send "kill em all" Kellogg to the vault to retrieve a child when there was 20+ adults that would work equally well that he just killed?

gently caress the institute, and gently caress Shaun.

Then here's the Railroad who have a painted red line that everyone in diamond city knows about going straight to their secret base, which is locked with the brilliant password which is loving "Railroad". They're super concerned about synth's rights when right across the loving street there's super mutants eating people. It's dumb.

The brotherhood are also idiots.

I don't mind that they didn't go back to the Enclave well, especially since I felt like their presence in FO3 was nothing more than nostalgia-bait (see? we're fallout! we've got vaults and the BoS and the Enclave is the bad guy again!). at the same time, the institute's motivations don't make a ton of sense in the context of the game, at least unless you decide to join them and then their plan basically amounts to MWA HA HA WORLD BOSTON DOMINATION!

The Skeleton King
Jul 16, 2011

Right now undead are at the top of my shit list. Undead are complete fuckers. Those geists are fuckers. Necromancers are fuckers. Necrosavants are big time fuckers. Skeletons aren't too bad except when they bleed everyone in the company. Zombos are at least not too bad.


chitoryu12 posted:

You're correct, you don't need perks. However, you do often need specific small parts like springs that you can't get from breaking down items unless you get the requisite perks. Without them, you're stuck getting 1 or 2 Steel for breaking down an entire gun and still effectively unable to craft the standard parts.

The mod I got makes those standard parts free (if you want a greater challenge, it makes the shortest barrels free and standard-length barrels still require crafting) so you can effectively pull pieces off the guns you find and get to building guns immediately.

I usually just console command all the relevant perks and materials so I can have my drat guns. For me it doesn't really lessen the overall experience since I modded the game to fit my style.

I use mods that makes guns more balanced (and generally deadlier) for both player and enemies so that even though I have a high powered sniper rifle early on, a few raiders getting the jump on me with pipe machine guns can still ruin my day. I also use mods that make scarier enemies appear on occasion, making high powered guns very valuable for my health.

LashLightning posted:

The whole thing with the synths is causing instability in the region that allows the super mutants to go around eating people. You deal with the exploitation of the synths - which frees people up to dealing with the super mutants. Plus some of the railroad ARE synths, so you'd think they'd care a bit about the subjugation of their people y'know?

And the red line thing is just so that the average player could find their way and feel good about it. I guess the other option could have been that a railroad operative gets into contact with you once you've made a small mark in the Commonwealth.

That's all cool and good if it were written competently. The game likes to tell you that snatchers are a huge problem but outside of a few instances it never really feels like a problem. Instead the Railroad just seems dumb.

chitoryu12
Apr 23, 2014

We can't stop here! This is cat country!

Freaking Crumbum posted:

are you opposed to scrounging thru junk for parts? because all of the "rare" gun parts are actually pretty common if you know what to look for. the perk that lets you get "rare" parts from common garbage is basically for people that are being lazy about scavenging, but I've never had a problem finding whatever part was needed for a particular upgrade. the bigger issue is that certain mods are gated behind level-locked perks, so even if you've got the right pieces, you can't make the actual mod until you're arbitrarily level 31 or whatever.

It's been a bit since I played because I started getting bored by the Glowing Sea, but I don't recall finding a whole lot of small parts while scavenging.

Freaking Crumbum
Apr 17, 2003

Too fuck to drunk


chitoryu12 posted:

It's been a bit since I played because I started getting bored by the Glowing Sea, but I don't recall finding a whole lot of small parts while scavenging.

take something like "nuclear material" or "springs" or "fiber optics" or whatever, and there's likely 5 - 10 junk items you can find that contain that specific material and that you can break down without any special perks. it's not the most convenient way to get the rarer materials, but if you're willing to either play with a wiki open, or just memorize what junk contains what parts, it really isn't that hard to acquire any particular piece. the only thing that really chews through your reserve pieces very quickly is if you get invested in building up every settlement into a functional town, because things like wood and stone are dime-a-dozen, but ceramic and gold and other stuff requires a little more effort to find.

keep in mind, the junk merchant in diamond city, bunker hill, and most other major settlements will also periodically have mass shipments of a few specific parts, so if you just check them every time you're in town you'll find they randomly have 200 pounds of fiber optics or whatever.

edit: it's actually really similar to alchemy in the elder scrolls, where if you're willing to memorize what each plant or bug part does, you can actually make some potions that require rare ingredients without having to hunt down ash vampires or daedra lords or whatever.

Freaking Crumbum fucked around with this message at Jan 31, 2018 around 16:16

Psychotic Weasel
Jun 24, 2004
I'm a 19 year old who hangs out with 14 year olds on occasion!

I've never really had a problem gathering crafting components in 4 - you just grab everything not nailed down on your travels and dump it at nearby settlements so you can pick out the parts you need. Eventually you learn what junk contains rarer, more valuable components and focus on them to save weight.

The only things I find difficult to collect is rubber and adhesives. I'll usually get Scantuary setup to produce vegetable starch as quickly as possible though.

Halser
Aug 24, 2016


Freaking Crumbum posted:

are you opposed to scrounging thru junk for parts? because all of the "rare" gun parts are actually pretty common if you know what to look for. the perk that lets you get "rare" parts from common garbage is basically for people that are being lazy about scavenging, but I've never had a problem finding whatever part was needed for a particular upgrade. the bigger issue is that certain mods are gated behind level-locked perks, so even if you've got the right pieces, you can't make the actual mod until you're arbitrarily level 31 or whatever.
generally weapons can appear in shops with upgrades that are 5-6 levels above what you can craft, so the level limitation on parts is even more arbitrary than that. Silencers on rifles are lvl 36+ stuff, but you can find them in shops at lvl 30. Stupid.


Hell, if you have the Nuka World DLC, you can go there at level 1(fun challenge) to get the Splattercannon, which has all maximum level upgrades installed no matter your level. It's good for catharsis, going through Concord with a weapon that deals 60 damage a shot in full auto

CFox
Nov 9, 2005


Neurolimal posted:

They aren't sole responsible or even the primary person responsible, but at the end of the day they did deliver that package unaware of what was in it. It's why most countries have post offices that check for contraband and suspicious packages; having those checks in place might not prevent all malicious deliveries, but you'd still hold it against the government if such happened and there wasn't a check in place. We're basically in the third person seat of a pretty common moral dilemma in an RPG, where the protagonist is tasked with delivering a package and explicitly told not to look inside. It just so happens Old Courier decided to make the choice of delivering without looking inside.

This is the dumbest argument. What exactly are you expecting to see in this box? A big red button with "Launch all the nukes" printed on it? You're assuming that if the Courier looked at the package that they'd be able to identify what it was and the end result of delivering it.

Mr E
Sep 18, 2007

RAISED WITH BIRDS



Internet Kraken posted:

Absolutely. New Vegas is a well written game that provides plenty of RP opportunities, so you can be an rear end in a top hat that those "good" things. My NCR playthrough was an insane survivalist that cannibalized literally everyone they killed because that would be "wasting food". In the quest where you recover the body of a dead soldier I even carved a choice cut out of him before dragging the corpse back to base. So obviously this character was not a nice person, but they still had plenty of reason to side with the "good" faction over Caesar's fanclub.

Its really kind of hard to play as a character that would ever side with Caesar in the first place though. Across all my playthroughs I never did it because it never felt right.

That's kinda what I figured with how the game is written. I've played through about 15 times and never played with a "bad" character except the one time I went through the Caesar quests ASAP for the achievement. I'll probably end up doing melee/unarmed lowish INT rear end in a top hat House playthrough then.

Another questions that's for modding but I'll ask here - I used Fear & Loathing's guide to start modding and added/changed some stuff, but want to add JSawyer Ultimate also. I installed the full package for Project Nevada, and have the patch for JS Ultimate w/ PN. Does anyone have any experience with both together & the patch, and is it worth it or should I go through the trouble of removing the Rebalance/Extras portions of PN instead? The patch mentions that parts of JS don't work w/ PN.

Reality Pisser
Aug 10, 2016



Super mutants went from civilized and dealing with their problems in fonv to dumb idiots blowing themselves up at you for no reason in fo4. They serve no purpose other than to tick a box on bethesda's fallout nostalgia cheat sheet. When that super mutant scientist mentioned FEV all I could do was roll my eyes.

Dongicus
Jun 11, 2015


its cool how people praise fallout 4's shooting mechanics as the thing fallout 4 does best over the other games despite it being barely on par with CoD.

praising bethesda for being just a centimetre above the bar

dont be mean to me
May 2, 2007

I'm interplanetary, bitch
Let's go to Mars




Dongicus posted:

its cool how people praise fallout 4's shooting mechanics as the thing fallout 4 does best over the other games despite it being barely on par with CoD.

praising bethesda for being just a centimetre above the bar

They're technically correct.

Southpaugh
May 26, 2007

Smokey Bacon



Super mutants on the east coast was always bad. They work very well as the remnants of the masters army but suck very hard in FO3/4. If there had been one or two in FO3 with a decent Enclave/other mutant tries to recreate the masters army storyline that could have been strong and give you a reason to have them there, with the odd intelligent mutant among them. But as it was it was just enclave therefore some supermutants too duh, in FO3. Then they are just there in 4.

Super mutants had a good storyline in Fallout and a very good one in two as they deal with just being a different kind of maligned human (that is slowly dying out). They actually have themes! Thats good for a game from 1998!

Freaking Crumbum
Apr 17, 2003

Too fuck to drunk


dont be mean to me posted:

They're technically correct.

the best kind of correct!

imagine if FO5 has the responsiveness of DOOM 2015. that'd kick so much rear end

Dongicus
Jun 11, 2015


praising the shooting and loot mechanics in a series defined by its quests and characters is some smooth brain poo poo

dont be mean to me
May 2, 2007

I'm interplanetary, bitch
Let's go to Mars




Is it really anymore?

I liked the anthology-in-a-game idea upthread.

As for mutants:

West Coast mutants, made intended to be sort-of-equals to the Master, quite aware what they're going through.

East Coast mutants, mostly walls of meat with brains-ish to match, and the destruction of them as people (since they were dissidents in the eyes of the local Big Bad) is considered by their makers as a feature.

Yikes.

As for the Next Fallout, to be fair, it's probably hard to still be Fallout if you're not dealing with America, and Bethesda does not want to start A Thing with the People's Republic so China is probably not going to get a Fallout. New Vegas left us with hooks for Chicago, Fallout 3 (at least the Pitt) left us with hooks for Toronto (not technically the United States, until the last year or so before the Two Hours War anyway) and now 4 has an alleged hook for New York City which I didn't actually notice in there. I always imagine Fallout's NYC as basically a sea of glass with islands of skyscraper in it, but I guess they sort of did that with the Glowing Sea already.

I kind of want them to do Toronto just so we can see America from the outside.

Wolfsheim
Dec 23, 2003

His ugliness was the
stuff of legend.

In an age of affordable beauty,
there was something heraldic
about his lack of it.

Neurolimal posted:

Except the character has already done stuff in the universe. In prior fallout games and most RPG's your character has done nothing before you create them (because they didn't exist before creation). The courier has a history attached to them beyond the player's control.

This isn't exactly a new concept from Obsidian. Alpha Protocol played with the fact that you were not creating a character, but rather choosing the approaches the existing character would take to achieve his goals.

Yeah, this is dumb. Each Fallout protagonist (other than 3) has a history, even if it's a pretty vague one where you lived a relatively unremarkable life in a vault/tribe/Boston suburb.

The Courier also doesn't actually go "huuurrrr what is the NCR " all of the NCR dialogue choices are framed in a way that can be read as "tell me what the NCR is up to in this area because I'm trying to subtly gauge how people feel about them in this area."

Freaking Crumbum
Apr 17, 2003

Too fuck to drunk


Dongicus posted:

praising the shooting and loot mechanics in a series defined by its quests and characters is some smooth brain poo poo

you can be frustrated about Bethesda not making the game you wish they would make, but I'm going to focus on hoping that they improve on the types of things that they've indicated they actually want to do.

writing deep, interesting quests with multiple solutions and an overarching plot that's reactive to your decisions as a player, including multifaceted factions to provide background color, is not something they do well (or likely care to do at all). making huge sandboxes that are fun to screw around in and explore with passable shooter mechanics and a plot that just barely gives you reason to wander over the next hill is where they're taking Fallout, no matter how much you might hate that.

Neurolimal
Nov 3, 2012

by R. Guyovich


Wolfsheim posted:

Yeah, this is dumb. Each Fallout protagonist (other than 3) has a history, even if it's a pretty vague one where you lived a relatively unremarkable life in a vault/tribe/Boston suburb.

What exactly did the MC do before being created in any of the other games?

- FO1: nameless unimportant figure in a vault
- FO2: nameless unimportant figure in a tribe coming of age
- FO3: sperm in a nameless unimportant figure in a vault's nutsack

FO4 is the only one beside NV that bucks this trend...and incidentally happens to be the one criticized as having little player agency and basically a predetermined character arc.

quote:

The Courier also doesn't actually go "huuurrrr what is the NCR " all of the NCR dialogue choices are framed in a way that can be read as "tell me what the NCR is up to in this area because I'm trying to subtly gauge how people feel about them in this area."

Not really following on how this supports any 'side' of the argument. By the time -you- have those options -you- are the new personality of the courier.

E: if you want to take FO outside Americana, the obvious choice is to cross the iron curtain and have one based around Russia and their retrofuturism. Although there's still plenty of unique areas you can take FO in America.

Neurolimal fucked around with this message at Jan 31, 2018 around 18:01

Arcsquad12
Mar 4, 2013

I Love Satan


Southpaugh posted:


Super mutants had a good storyline in Fallout and a very good one in two as they deal with just being a different kind of maligned human (that is slowly dying out). They actually have themes! Thats good for a game from 1998!

And by the time of New Vegas even that way of life is being pushed out as the NCR doesn't tolerate mutants, forcing the surviving ones to find a way to live amongst themselves in isolation. And on top of that they also need to deal with tending to their retarded brethren that the Enclave cooked up.

Byzantine
Sep 1, 2007

I admit the deed! Tear up the planks, here! Here, the shining of his hideous teeth!


The Soviet Union was still around in 2077, and on good enough terms with the US that a Soviet diplomat was able to get into Vault 13.

Avalerion
Oct 19, 2012


I wouldn’t mind seeing the “modern” NRC core but at this point that wouldn’t really have the wasteland hook any more. If they want that, Fallout europe maybe? Kind of a fresh start, and civilization there is probably very different without the benefit of the vaults.

Wolfsheim
Dec 23, 2003

His ugliness was the
stuff of legend.

In an age of affordable beauty,
there was something heraldic
about his lack of it.

Neurolimal posted:

What exactly did the MC do before being created in any of the other games?

- FO1: nameless unimportant figure in a vault
- FO2: nameless unimportant figure in a tribe coming of age
- FO3: sperm in a nameless unimportant figure in a vault's nutsack

FO4 is the only one beside NV that bucks this trend...and incidentally happens to be the one criticized as having little player agency and basically a predetermined character arc.

How is 'nameless courier who delivered packages for a few years' any different from 'nameless tribal'? They both have just as much backstory, possibly more in F2's case because you actually end up interacting with some of your family members (your whiny cousin, your bitchy aunt, etc).

Double Agent
Mar 28, 2005

Maybe we're not just a bunch of frak-ups after all.

Neurolimal posted:

E: if you want to take FO outside Americana, the obvious choice is to cross the iron curtain and have one based around Russia and their retrofuturism.
Then all you'd hear is people bitching about the setting because they can already play Metro 2033.

Dongicus
Jun 11, 2015


Freaking Crumbum posted:

you can be frustrated about Bethesda not making the game you wish they would make, but I'm going to focus on hoping that they improve on the types of things that they've indicated they actually want to do.

writing deep, interesting quests with multiple solutions and an overarching plot that's reactive to your decisions as a player, including multifaceted factions to provide background color, is not something they do well (or likely care to do at all). making huge sandboxes that are fun to screw around in and explore with passable shooter mechanics and a plot that just barely gives you reason to wander over the next hill is where they're taking Fallout, no matter how much you might hate that.

It's good that you have a positive outlook for the games you enjoy. I think that's important. However it's clear, at least to me, that Bethesda Games Studios will never make a good Fallout game. They will never make a good fps. They'll never make a good dungeon crawler. They are a jack of all trades for mediocre game design and will never produce a game of genuine quality.

e: and I believe they're content with staying that way. Look how much freakin money they make

Dongicus fucked around with this message at Jan 31, 2018 around 18:33

LORD OF BOOTY
Feb 11, 2015

THEY MAKE SURE YOU AIN'T BOOTY!!!


Dongicus posted:

It's good that you have a positive outlook for the games you enjoy. I think that's important. However it's clear, at least to me, that Bethesda Games Studios will never make a good Fallout game. They will never make a good fps. They'll never make a good dungeon crawler. They are a jack of all trades for mediocre game design and will never produce a game of genuine quality.

i would say, more than that, they're a jack of all trades for batshit unchecked ambition.

like, the whole problem with Bethesda games is that they're punching several weight classes above their weight in what they go for, meaning they don't have the ability to properly polish anything if they want to get something out the door. if Bethesda made something smaller-scale, maybe something more along the lines of a Borderlands than an Elder Scrolls, we'd probably see something genuinely good out of them; the problem is they only want to make giant loving behemoth open-world games with a million things to do and dynamic radiant AI and settlement-building and player homes and dynamic quests and et cetera.

Mantis42
Jul 26, 2010



Neurolimal posted:

E: if you want to take FO outside Americana, the obvious choice is to cross the iron curtain and have one based around Russia and their retrofuturism. Although there's still plenty of unique areas you can take FO in America.

I think the UK is probably the only other nation with a similar sort of Cold War kitsch.

Like imagine an apocalyptic, 1984-esque London where survivors must follow the increasingly insane and contradictory rules issued by a Civil Defence parody, all watched over by an unseen, undying mutant queen.

LORD OF BOOTY
Feb 11, 2015

THEY MAKE SURE YOU AIN'T BOOTY!!!


like, Rockstar is probably the only company that's even remotely capable of making stuff on the scale Bethesda goes for, and... not only are their games janky as gently caress too, but they also have to dump loving comical amounts of money into them and they basically only put out one game a decade now.

Dongicus
Jun 11, 2015


NV, 1, and 2 are games that stick with people. if you mention FNV in a thread on here people will talk about it for pages. You'll never see people online still discussing whatever bullshit happened with teh epic liam neeson plot 3 had.

Arcsquad12
Mar 4, 2013

I Love Satan


Wolfsheim posted:

How is 'nameless courier who delivered packages for a few years' any different from 'nameless tribal'? They both have just as much backstory, possibly more in F2's case because you actually end up interacting with some of your family members (your whiny cousin, your bitchy aunt, etc).

Because the chosen one never left arroyo before their quest. The courier has been at their job for a long time already and they have traveled a very long way. They've been to Utah before the 80s and White Legs tribes moved in, and they've been at least as far northeast as Montana.

Dongicus
Jun 11, 2015


LORD OF BOOTY posted:

i would say, more than that, they're a jack of all trades for batshit unchecked ambition.

like, the whole problem with Bethesda games is that they're punching several weight classes above their weight in what they go for, meaning they don't have the ability to properly polish anything if they want to get something out the door. if Bethesda made something smaller-scale, maybe something more along the lines of a Borderlands than an Elder Scrolls, we'd probably see something genuinely good out of them; the problem is they only want to make giant loving behemoth open-world games with a million things to do and dynamic radiant AI and settlement-building and player homes and dynamic quests and et cetera.

Yeah I can agree with that. Do you think they'd make a good linear rpg? Say, like Mass Effect style.

I think a lot of story problems they have do stem from how open world games are developed.

LORD OF BOOTY
Feb 11, 2015

THEY MAKE SURE YOU AIN'T BOOTY!!!


Dongicus posted:

NV, 1, and 2 are games that stick with people. if you mention FNV in a thread on here people will talk about it for pages. You'll never see people online still discussing whatever bullshit happened with teh epic liam neeson plot 3 had.

honestly this isn't entirely true, people were quoting Liberty Prime for loving years

Dongicus posted:

Yeah I can agree with that. Do you think they'd make a good linear rpg? Say, like Mass Effect style.

yes. frankly, i think that's what they need to do; a lot of the problems with 4's writing are that they're trying to find a weird middle ground between that and the open-world behemoths they're apparently contractually obligated to make, and if they'd just straight up made it a linear RPG it probably would have worked out really well.

Dongicus
Jun 11, 2015


lmao i forgot that liberty prime was in 4 also. wonder why that was

funny that

shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010




Grimey Drawer

Arcsquad12 posted:

Because the chosen one never left arroyo before their quest. The courier has been at their job for a long time already and they have traveled a very long way. They've been to Utah before the 80s and White Legs tribes moved in, and they've been at least as far northeast as Montana.

The Courier story never felt like too much baggage and it doesn't influence your in-game choices too much. It's like 5% of the way to one of the two Torment games where your character is ENTIRELY defined by their past, and FO2 is 1%. It's 5x as much but it's not like you spend the entire game sorting through a world shaped by your character's past misdeeds.

Wolfsheim
Dec 23, 2003

His ugliness was the
stuff of legend.

In an age of affordable beauty,
there was something heraldic
about his lack of it.

Nah Bethesda is good at what they do, because if they weren't they wouldn't make a comically large amount of money doing it and someone else would be doing it better to make all the same money. GTA games aren't really comparable because their big open world only exist to shoot the thing or look at the thing, there's no real interaction beyond that. It's basically nothing like Skyrim/etc outside of 'world big.'

Its just that 'giant world to explore and loot with barely serviceable combat and dozens of mediocre quests that moslty exist to get you out there exploring and looting' isn't really what Fallout has ever been about before that so the two clash pretty hard.

LORD OF BOOTY
Feb 11, 2015

THEY MAKE SURE YOU AIN'T BOOTY!!!


Wolfsheim posted:

Nah Bethesda is good at what they do, because if they weren't they wouldn't make a comically large amount of money doing it and someone else would be doing it better to make all the same money. GTA games aren't really comparable because their big open world only exist to shoot the thing or look at the thing, there's no real interaction beyond that. It's basically nothing like Skyrim/etc outside of 'world big.'

this has been... sort of changing over the years, and I would definitely classify GTAV (and especially GTA Online) as a sort of "lite" version of Bethesda-style open world games. they're not quite there yet, but they've been moving in that direction since roughly San Andreas (which is probably still the high water mark for real interaction with the world beyond shoot thing/look at thing in the GTA series, now that I think about it- GTAV is mostly impressive for managing to cram most of what was in SA back into their new pretty engine).

and i would say that bethesda mostly makes poo poo-tons of money for the fact that there's no real competition. like, you have Piranha Bytes games, I guess, but if you're already cold on bethesda because of their jank, holy lord you are in for some poo poo with PB games. The Witcher maybe, but that's more linear and smaller-scale. and at the same time, it's almost impossible to actually make any real competition because of the loving absurd amounts of money, time, and manpower required to make a good open world game.

LORD OF BOOTY fucked around with this message at Jan 31, 2018 around 19:02

RBA Starblade
Apr 27, 2008

Going Home.


Megazver posted:

Ulysses is a disgustingly over-written, obtuse, and the worst example of Chris Avellone believing his own hype and crawling up his own rear end. I had to consult the wiki after playing the final DLC to figure out what the gently caress all that word diarrhea was about.

Lonesome Road really needed an option to explain to Ulysses what couriers actually are.

Fintilgin
Sep 29, 2004

Fintilgin sweeps!

In my head canon, Lonesome Road doesn't exist, `cause it's dumb.

You having accidentally nuked a city before the game starts, is just... terrible storytelling. Particularly for a Fallout game where you're supposed to define your character.


Acebuckeye13 posted:

This isn't true, FYI. I mean, it's true Obsidian missed out on a big payout thanks to a single point on Metacritic, but that's standard for the gaming industry and everyone at Obsidian has been completely open that they'd love to work on Fallout again.

Also if it does come out it's gonna be a long-rear end time from now, but man I hope Fallout 4: New Vegas does reach some kind of actual release.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KARSz0AE39Q

I legit think Bethesda/Obsidian could do these ports for real for NV and F3 and sell a million copies or whatever of each. Put them in the new engine, merge the strip, add a little smatter of new content. Bang! New Vegas Remastered Edition. Like it would seriously just be printing money.

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Arcsquad12
Mar 4, 2013

I Love Satan


Bethesda really only is as popular and forgivable for the state of their games because they have no real competition in their particular corner of open world games. But that is changing, particularly with The Witcher series offering an alternative to the elder scrolls style of open world game design.

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