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Neurolimal
Nov 3, 2012

ASK ME ABOUT BEING UNABLE TO GO INTO SHOPS BECAUSE I FLY INTO FITS OF RAGE WHEN I SEE A PACKET OF FRUIT PASTILLES AND REMEMBER THAT ROWNTREES NEVER FINISHED THEIR SEARCH FOR THE ROWNTREE ADVERTISEMENT CAMPAIGN/HIGH FANTASY SERIES


Wolfsheim posted:

How is 'nameless courier who delivered packages for a few years' any different from 'nameless tribal'? They both have just as much backstory, possibly more in F2's case because you actually end up interacting with some of your family members (your whiny cousin, your bitchy aunt, etc).

It's more than just "delivers packages" as evident from this conversation; before the player takes control he's helped blow up a town, make an enemy out of one of its former residents, accept the job of delivering the chip, and get shot in the head. If he was the player character even back then, you'd figure that you would have a say in those events.

I'm surprised this is even a point of contention, considering how minor a detail it is, and how cleanly a cutoff exists with the head wound + recovery.

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amigolupus
Aug 25, 2017

This is the dance
of our people


LORD OF BOOTY posted:

i would say, more than that, they're a jack of all trades for batshit unchecked ambition.

like, the whole problem with Bethesda games is that they're punching several weight classes above their weight in what they go for, meaning they don't have the ability to properly polish anything if they want to get something out the door.

Ambitious, overextends itself, has some serious game development problems at its core... So what you're saying is that Bethesda is the NCR? :V:

RBA Starblade posted:

Lonesome Road really needed an option to explain to Ulysses what couriers actually are.

Or better yet, an option to tell Ulysses he's got the wrong person.

RBA Starblade
Apr 27, 2008

Going Home.


amigolupus posted:

Ambitious, overextends itself, has some serious game development problems at its core... So what you're saying is that Bethesda is the NCR? :V:


Or better yet, an option to tell Ulysses he's got the wrong person.

Speech 100: I'm Courier 3 where am i

Freaking Crumbum
Apr 17, 2003

Too fuck to drunk


LORD OF BOOTY posted:

i would say, more than that, they're a jack of all trades for batshit unchecked ambition.

like, the whole problem with Bethesda games is that they're punching several weight classes above their weight in what they go for, meaning they don't have the ability to properly polish anything if they want to get something out the door. if Bethesda made something smaller-scale, maybe something more along the lines of a Borderlands than an Elder Scrolls, we'd probably see something genuinely good out of them; the problem is they only want to make giant loving behemoth open-world games with a million things to do and dynamic radiant AI and settlement-building and player homes and dynamic quests and et cetera.

Bethesda has shown they're a way better publisher than they are a first-party developer. they really need to leverage some of the talent behind other properties they've produced, and have them make some kind of all-stat team for the next fallout. FO5 being written by the Prey team and having the game mechanics of the DOOM team and etc. seems like it'd be a pretty kickass game.

or it'd be an mediocre Frankenstein of mishmashed ambitions, but that's not any different from what they're currently producing. might as well give it a shot!

Halser
Aug 24, 2016


Fintilgin posted:

In my head canon, Lonesome Road doesn't exist, `cause it's dumb.

You having accidentally nuked a city before the game starts, is just... terrible storytelling. Particularly for a Fallout game where you're supposed to define your character.


I legit think Bethesda/Obsidian could do these ports for real for NV and F3 and sell a million copies or whatever of each. Put them in the new engine, merge the strip, add a little smatter of new content. Bang! New Vegas Remastered Edition. Like it would seriously just be printing money.

the only game that can be re-released is Skyrim, silly man.

Over

and

over

again

Freaking Crumbum
Apr 17, 2003

Too fuck to drunk


amigolupus posted:

Ambitious, overextends itself, has some serious game development problems at its core... So what you're saying is that Bethesda is the NCR? :V:


Or better yet, an option to tell Ulysses he's got the wrong person.

[Speech 100]: Listen you whackjob, I'm happy to engage in your mutually assured destruction boss fight over an active nuclear silo, but I have no loving clue what you're on about and I've never even heard of Hopeville. Now, are we done here, or do you want to find out which of us can murder the other anyway?

Fintilgin
Sep 29, 2004

Fintilgin sweeps!

Halser posted:

the only game that can be re-released is Skyrim, silly man.

Over

and

over

again

I'm going to be very curious to see if they go with their scripted, pre-voiced character for the next Elder Scrolls, like they did with F4. Sorry, you're a Nord/Breton now. No Redguards, Dunmer, Argonian PCs allowed.

Avalerion
Oct 19, 2012


They'd only need to cut argonians and khajiit (unless they go with one of the not fury variety) for that.

Internet Kraken
Apr 24, 2010

slightly amused


Lonesome Road is the only DLC I didn't play and I'm kind of glad I didn't if it tries to force a specific backstory on you.

I always thought Obsidian went out of there way to create a character in New Vegas that could have whatever imaginary backstory the player wanted. All the game really tells you is that you're a courier who accepted a job. There are tons of reasons any character from any background would be working as a character. Also it didn't seem like your character had amnesia either; there are a few instances where they recall minor events that happened before the game, implying their memory is just fine.

Thought admittedly if your memory isn't hosed it does make you stumbling into a bar and going "NCR? Who is that? " pretty silly.

Fintilgin posted:

I'm going to be very curious to see if they go with their scripted, pre-voiced character for the next Elder Scrolls, like they did with F4. Sorry, you're a Nord/Breton now. No Redguards, Dunmer, Argonian PCs allowed.

I've had several people tell me that Bethesda has stated they are not doing a voiced protagonist again. I have no idea if that's true but I'd certainly like it to be.

Neurolimal
Nov 3, 2012

ASK ME ABOUT BEING UNABLE TO GO INTO SHOPS BECAUSE I FLY INTO FITS OF RAGE WHEN I SEE A PACKET OF FRUIT PASTILLES AND REMEMBER THAT ROWNTREES NEVER FINISHED THEIR SEARCH FOR THE ROWNTREE ADVERTISEMENT CAMPAIGN/HIGH FANTASY SERIES


Internet Kraken posted:

Lonesome Road is the only DLC I didn't play and I'm kind of glad I didn't if it tries to force a specific backstory on you.

It's not necessarily you, but the courier that gets the backstory. The idea being that a traumatic head injury resulted in a shift in personality (the Player being that new personality), be it from memory loss (not uncommon in head injuries + explains away how the player can know nothing about the courier) or just general brain damage.

The Player didn't have a hand in blowing up Hopeville, but the courier did.

Arcsquad12
Mar 4, 2013

I Love Satan


Also the entire DLC gives you the chance to tell Ulysses that he is full of poo poo at every single conversation you have with him.

RBA Starblade
Apr 27, 2008

Going Home.


I feel like another big issue with FO3, NV, and 4 are that they aren't as gross as FO1 or two an extent 2. There's nothing really like the floaters or Master. Centaurs I guess but that's really it. They play down everything else for the wasteland, which is a problem, since there isn't actually a wasteland anymore if we keep going forward in time with the games.

Samuel Clemens
Oct 4, 2013

I think we should call the Avengers.



Arcsquad12 posted:

And on top of that they also need to deal with tending to their retarded brethren that the Enclave cooked up.

Are you talking about the Nightkin? Those aren't Enclave creations, they were in the original Fallout.

Freaking Crumbum
Apr 17, 2003

Too fuck to drunk


RBA Starblade posted:

I feel like another big issue with FO3, NV, and 4 are that they aren't as gross as FO1 or two an extent 2. There's nothing really like the floaters or Master. Centaurs I guess but that's really it. They play down everything else for the wasteland, which is a problem, since there isn't actually a wasteland anymore if we keep going forward in time with the games.

true, none of the recent games have matched the raw excremental power of dynamiting the poo poo well in Modok.


Samuel Clemens posted:

Are you talking about the Nightkin? Those aren't Enclave creations, they were in the original Fallout.

yeah IIRC the Enclave wasn't into the Super Mutants at all. even Frank Horrigan was a one-off badass that even the rest of his troops were literally afraid of.

dont be mean to me
May 2, 2007

I'm interplanetary, bitch
Let's go to Mars




Freaking Crumbum posted:

true, none of the recent games have matched the raw excremental power of dynamiting the poo poo well in Modok.

And now someone needs to import the Saints Row 2 septic truck's cannon for Automatron. Or maybe the rideable mod.

Wolfsheim
Dec 23, 2003

Home of the
FIGHTING CHOMSKYS



Neurolimal posted:

It's more than just "delivers packages" as evident from this conversation; before the player takes control he's helped blow up a town, make an enemy out of one of its former residents, accept the job of delivering the chip, and get shot in the head. If he was the player character even back then, you'd figure that you would have a say in those events.

I'm surprised this is even a point of contention, considering how minor a detail it is, and how cleanly a cutoff exists with the head wound + recovery.

It's a totally arbitrary distinction, though? The Chosen One interacted with her/his fellow villagers throughout childhood, watched her/his home get ravaged by famine and chose to undertake the Temple of Trials, whereas if they had really been the player character they would've hosed off to New Reno before the game ever began to start an illustrious career as a pornstar/boxer/mafioso, because that's what I would've done.

The only truly blank slate is F3, because you define all the details of your life from birth on, everything else fills in some backstory (and honestly, 'had the same job for several years and then got shot before the game began' is pretty bare bones, especially compared to something like F4 where a huge chunk of your life is firmly established in the first five minutes of the game).

RBA Starblade posted:

I feel like another big issue with FO3, NV, and 4 are that they aren't as gross as FO1 or two an extent 2. There's nothing really like the floaters or Master. Centaurs I guess but that's really it. They play down everything else for the wasteland, which is a problem, since there isn't actually a wasteland anymore if we keep going forward in time with the games.

I feel like this is partially engine limitations, too. Can you imagine the jank and framerate crippling slowdown if they tried to do the Master's pulsating flesh walls in Gamebryo?

Wolfsheim fucked around with this message at Jan 31, 2018 around 20:53

Arcsquad12
Mar 4, 2013

I Love Satan


Samuel Clemens posted:

Are you talking about the Nightkin? Those aren't Enclave creations, they were in the original Fallout.

No, the Nightkin are smart. I'm talking about the dum dums who were made by accident when the Enclave had wastelanders cleaning up the FEV spills at Mariposa.

Wolfsheim
Dec 23, 2003

Home of the
FIGHTING CHOMSKYS



Freaking Crumbum posted:

Bethesda has shown they're a way better publisher than they are a first-party developer. they really need to leverage some of the talent behind other properties they've produced, and have them make some kind of all-stat team for the next fallout. FO5 being written by the Prey team and having the game mechanics of the DOOM team and etc. seems like it'd be a pretty kickass game.

or it'd be an mediocre Frankenstein of mishmashed ambitions, but that's not any different from what they're currently producing. might as well give it a shot!

I'm curious if DOOM would be as sleek and fluid as it is if they had to render a static open world that keeps track of every coffee cup you decide to hoard. I suspect that the reason we don't see any real Bethesda competitors in the open-world cup-hoarding genre is because of how hard it is to keep track of all that bullshit in-engine. Like, Witcher 3 may come the closest, but it doesn't do that thing Bethesda games do where you can walk into some guy's house, steal the forks (and only the forks) and start knocking all the food off his dinner table, then go home and make a shrine out of all your stolen forks in the shape of a giant ur-fork.

RBA Starblade
Apr 27, 2008

Going Home.


Wolfsheim posted:

I'm curious if DOOM would be as sleek and fluid as it is if they had to render a static open world that keeps track of every coffee cup you decide to hoard. I suspect that the reason we don't see any real Bethesda competitors in the open-world cup-hoarding genre is because of how hard it is to keep track of all that bullshit in-engine. Like, Witcher 3 may come the closest, but it doesn't do that thing Bethesda games do where you can walk into some guy's house, steal the forks (and only the forks) and start knocking all the food off his dinner table, then go home and make a shrine out of all your stolen forks in the shape of a giant ur-fork.

And then shout them all over the room

Internet Kraken
Apr 24, 2010

slightly amused


Neurolimal posted:

It's not necessarily you, but the courier that gets the backstory. The idea being that a traumatic head injury resulted in a shift in personality (the Player being that new personality), be it from memory loss (not uncommon in head injuries + explains away how the player can know nothing about the courier) or just general brain damage.

The Player didn't have a hand in blowing up Hopeville, but the courier did.

Yeah that's dumb. The courier and the player aren't separate identities. The courier is me. You could roleplay a character where the bullet to the head caused a dramatic personality shift but I never did and didn't feel like the game was suggesting I should have.

Fintilgin
Sep 29, 2004

Fintilgin sweeps!

RBA Starblade posted:

since there isn't actually a wasteland anymore if we keep going forward in time with the games.

I seem to remember Avellone saying something about this being part of the reason for Lonesome Road. In his head canon everyone gets nuked, thus 'resetting' the Wasteland. Maybe I imagined that... ?

RBA Starblade
Apr 27, 2008

Going Home.


Fintilgin posted:

I seem to remember Avellone saying something about this being part of the reason for Lonesome Road. In his head canon everyone gets nuked, thus 'resetting' the Wasteland. Maybe I imagined that... ?

It came up in the other thread but it was mentioned that he wants the world to be renuked to solve that issue. I think it'd be more interesting if it was just somewhere where a civilization sprung up then declined or was destroyed through a normal war. Apocalyptic in the sense of the Roman empire collapsing.

Hell, you could do it in the Legion.

Halser
Aug 24, 2016


Freaking Crumbum posted:

true, none of the recent games have matched the raw excremental power of dynamiting the poo poo well in Modok.


yeah IIRC the Enclave wasn't into the Super Mutants at all. even Frank Horrigan was a one-off badass that even the rest of his troops were literally afraid of.

cracking open a mantis egg and having a thousand tiny mantises pop out was kinda gross, but I agree.

Reality Loser
Aug 10, 2016



I should probably finish Lonesome Road but it just wasn't grabbing me like Old World Blues did, and I was a bit burnt out after slogging through honest hearts.

Internet Kraken
Apr 24, 2010

slightly amused


Settings where the apocalypse have reduced everything to complete shambles have already been done a ton though, several times within this very series. Causing another nuclear apocalypse seems pretty silly given there are plenty of other ways you could have these fragile post-war civilizations fall apart.

Honestly though I find Fallout more interesting when its about civilization rising above the ruins and conquering this awful new world. Its cool to see how people manage to adapt and live in the irradiated environments. More interesting than yet another game where everyone is doing the equivalent of banging rocks together, barely managing to survive each day.

Reality Loser posted:

I should probably finish Lonesome Road but it just wasn't grabbing me like Old World Blues did, and I was a bit burnt out after slogging through honest hearts.

I'm probably the only person who thinks this but Honest Hearts was my favorite of the DLC.

I didn't give Old World Blues much of a chance though. By the time I got to it I was too burnt out on the gameplay to keep going. Meanwhile Dead Money's gameplay was just abysmal so the less said about that the better.

Reality Loser
Aug 10, 2016



I really liked the salem witch museum quest where the bodies are sucked up through holes in the floor, half life 1 style, before an obnoxious deathclaw fight.

Wolfsheim
Dec 23, 2003

Home of the
FIGHTING CHOMSKYS



Internet Kraken posted:

Yeah that's dumb. The courier and the player aren't separate identities. The courier is me. You could roleplay a character where the bullet to the head caused a dramatic personality shift but I never did and didn't feel like the game was suggesting I should have.

It's especially funny because some of the choices you make at the beginning are things like gender and race. I guess that bullet was really something when it transformed the straight white man Courier Jones who is good at pistols into the black lesbian Donna McCourier who can punch a man so hard he explodes

Freaking Crumbum
Apr 17, 2003

Too fuck to drunk


Reality Loser posted:

I should probably finish Lonesome Road but it just wasn't grabbing me like Old World Blues did, and I was a bit burnt out after slogging through honest hearts.

fwiw I hated OWB and loved HH and still didn't enjoy Lonesome Road. I finished it out of spite because I paid for it, but turning NV into chest-high-wall cover-based shooting-gallery-on-rails with a running commentary track narrated by an NPC that you've literally never met and have next-to-no emotional investment in was a weird decision

RBA Starblade
Apr 27, 2008

Going Home.


Internet Kraken posted:

I didn't give Old World Blues much of a chance though. By the time I got to it I was too burnt out on the gameplay to keep going. Meanwhile Dead Money's gameplay was just abysmal so the less said about that the better.

I really liked Dead Money's mechanics the first time I played it then steadily hated them more each subsequent time.

shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010





I never played the DLCs other than HH, should I reinstall and gofer it?

Internet Kraken
Apr 24, 2010

slightly amused


I really love the atmosphere of the villa and the ghost people are fantastic designs, but the area is confusing as hell to navigate. Avoiding all the poo poo mist gets pretty obnoxious and then sometimes you wander too close to a radio and you blow up. I feel like if it had been a bit less gimmicky I would of enjoyed it a lot more.

The casino is just terrible. Insanely bad. I have no idea why they thought sneaking past invincible holograms that instantly smite you was going to be fun.

Freaking Crumbum
Apr 17, 2003

Too fuck to drunk


shovelbum posted:

I never played the DLCs other than HH, should I reinstall and gofer it?

if you don't already know how they end, sure, why not. if you've got a general idea of what they're about, I wouldn't bother. HH was my personal favorite, with DM being a close second and OWB and LR having a two way tie for dead last.

RBA Starblade
Apr 27, 2008

Going Home.


Internet Kraken posted:

The casino is just terrible. Insanely bad. I have no idea why they thought sneaking past invincible holograms that instantly smite you was going to be fun.

My favorite about the casino is going down the maintenance stuff to the vault because the game occasionally forgets what 'range' is and kills you by radio anyway.

amigolupus
Aug 25, 2017

This is the dance
of our people


Wolfsheim posted:

I'm curious if DOOM would be as sleek and fluid as it is if they had to render a static open world that keeps track of every coffee cup you decide to hoard. I suspect that the reason we don't see any real Bethesda competitors in the open-world cup-hoarding genre is because of how hard it is to keep track of all that bullshit in-engine. Like, Witcher 3 may come the closest, but it doesn't do that thing Bethesda games do where you can walk into some guy's house, steal the forks (and only the forks) and start knocking all the food off his dinner table, then go home and make a shrine out of all your stolen forks in the shape of a giant ur-fork.

I still think MGSV's Fox Engine would fit Fallout more. It's got beautiful sprawling maps, you can stealth past enemies or shoot them or punch them, plenty of guns, you can grab just about any equipment lying around (or even the enemies ), and you can even team up with your dog and give them orders.

dont be mean to me
May 2, 2007

I'm interplanetary, bitch
Let's go to Mars




Internet Kraken posted:

I'm probably the only person who thinks this but Honest Hearts was my favorite of the DLC.

You are not alone.

Neurolimal
Nov 3, 2012

ASK ME ABOUT BEING UNABLE TO GO INTO SHOPS BECAUSE I FLY INTO FITS OF RAGE WHEN I SEE A PACKET OF FRUIT PASTILLES AND REMEMBER THAT ROWNTREES NEVER FINISHED THEIR SEARCH FOR THE ROWNTREE ADVERTISEMENT CAMPAIGN/HIGH FANTASY SERIES


Wolfsheim posted:

It's especially funny because some of the choices you make at the beginning are things like gender and race. I guess that bullet was really something when it transformed the straight white man Courier Jones who is good at pistols into the black lesbian Donna McCourier who can punch a man so hard he explodes

I mean, you don't know the courier's gender or race beforehand, bit odd to default to White Male.

RBA Starblade
Apr 27, 2008

Going Home.


Neurolimal posted:

I mean, you don't know the courier's gender or race beforehand, bit odd to default to White Male.

The game does that.

Neurolimal
Nov 3, 2012

ASK ME ABOUT BEING UNABLE TO GO INTO SHOPS BECAUSE I FLY INTO FITS OF RAGE WHEN I SEE A PACKET OF FRUIT PASTILLES AND REMEMBER THAT ROWNTREES NEVER FINISHED THEIR SEARCH FOR THE ROWNTREE ADVERTISEMENT CAMPAIGN/HIGH FANTASY SERIES


RBA Starblade posted:

The game does that.

They're the first choice of their respective criteria, but the game doesn't specify the courier as any particular gender or race, so "I can select those" isn't really a silver bullet.


Wolfsheim posted:

It's a totally arbitrary distinction, though? The Chosen One interacted with her/his fellow villagers throughout childhood, watched her/his home get ravaged by famine and chose to undertake the Temple of Trials,

...that's everyone in the tribe, though. The only unique aspect here is that the Chosen One is most related to the Vault Dweller, and so is put up to the trials (that are only completed once the player gains control). If you mod in cut content, it turns out you aren't even the first chosen one.

Internet Kraken
Apr 24, 2010

slightly amused


Unrelated to the current discussion, but I always wanted wannamingos to come back. Partly because they look cool, but mostly because wannamingo is just really fun to say.

wannamingo wannamingo wannamingo wannamingo wannamingo wannamingo

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shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010





Freaking Crumbum posted:

if you don't already know how they end, sure, why not. if you've got a general idea of what they're about, I wouldn't bother. HH was my personal favorite, with DM being a close second and OWB and LR having a two way tie for dead last.

Is there a way to get a grenade machinegun or Mercy early on via cheese but not cheating? This is crucial to my enjoyment

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