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The first time I finished Fallout 2 the turrets and 2 critical hits from the Enclave soldiers killed Horrigan in the second round. Sure made all that dramatic build up kinda hilarious.
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Aug 16, 2018 05:24
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Every time I've played Fallout 2 it ended up in a long slog of hitting Frank Horrigan with a critical to the eyes for only 4 points damage with the gauss rifle over and over
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Aug 16, 2018 06:52
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Rinkles posted:F4 did away with the proud tradition of the one-sided short sleeve Another reason why it is terrible. The Zombie Guy posted:Well that's rather disappointing. Here I thought I had a cure for bullet sponges. I upgraded it and renamed it Ceaseless Discharge. Just beware that despite the size, it still has the same object caps as the smaller settlements and if you override them you'll eventually get to the point that you crash any time you enter that zone because Bethesda. Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 08:11 on Aug 16, 2018 |
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Aug 16, 2018 08:08
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hacking turrets to kill someone doesn't really seem pacifistic but fallout as a series has always been about getting your hands dirty, pacifism is really more of challenge players like to attempt. this is the line of games that include the bloody mess perk and shooting people in the balls after all Space Cadet Omoly posted:Frank Horrigan 100% needs to be murdered by you and there is absolutely no way to talk your way out of fighting him. However, I'd argue that given what Frank is (a violent sociopath) and what he represents (the sheer brutality and devastation that the Enclave constantly causally enables and often actively encourages in pursuit of their goals) that being able to talk him down really wouldn't really fit with the story. yeah i pretty much feel the same way with kellogg. ive seen a lot of players complain they couldn't, i don't know, talk kellogg down and then go on adventures with him but this seems more an issue with his VA being fantastic so of course everyone wants more kellogg time, but his character just buddying up to you would make little if any sense.
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Aug 16, 2018 08:11
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You don't need to buddy up with Kellogg, but there needs to be a myriad of ways to kill him/best him. See: Benny. You can't buddy up with Benny, really - The 'best' ending for him is wandering through the wastes completely ruined, likely killed by the first minor threat he encounters. Just off the top of my head, other ways you could best Kellogg could be: Do some Science stuff to make Kellogg's age catch up with him. Use Speech to trick him into revealing more information/deactivating his synth bodyguard/verbally fouling up so bad he has to flee less the Institute kill him/Verbally fouling up so bad that the institute implants activate a failsafe and kill him. Use a knowledge of Medicine to either accurately or falsely point out that his implants are failing, and his time is limited, thus he should make himself useful before dying. He's in a pre-war military installation. Any number of deactivated weaponry to be accessed with lockpicking/repairing/intelligence/perception/luck and re-ignited for sweet and cinematic environmental kills. Clawtopsy fucked around with this message at 08:21 on Aug 16, 2018 |
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Aug 16, 2018 08:16
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benny being a companion was cut content actually so at least considered but uh, those are also two very different characters benny is kind of a total fuckboi so he's somewhat malleable but kellogg is basically ride or die for the job and as they say in reality tv shows not here to make friends
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Aug 16, 2018 08:21
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Berke Negri posted:benny being a companion was cut content actually so at least considered but uh, those are also two very different characters I was editing before this was posted, but there could've still been plenty of ways to kill the guy that weren't just "I angrily say I will shoot you/I sarcastically say I will shoot you/I say I will shoot you"
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Aug 16, 2018 08:23
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yeah i mean, don't get me wrong, more could have been done. far harbor showed that more could be done in at least giving more options in possible outcomes, but as a set piece itself i think it did its job think speech checks to convince the big bad to see the error of his ways is a convention that really isn't that great though. like being able to smooth talk your way into the master killing himself is kind of held up as some ideal but the idea the crazy psychic monstrosity creating super mutants never put two and two together that after several decades of putting out super mutants they aren't making babies kind of uh, shaky it's kind of like storming the eagle's nest and then, upon confronting hitler, telling him "[SPEECH 100/85] actually do you remember how jesse owens won a gold medal at the 1936 berlin olympics???" and hitler then going mein gott...what have i done then setting the nuclear bomb off that is underneath his hide out
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Aug 16, 2018 08:35
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another way of putting it is speech checks are good for greasing palms, getting past checkpoints, or neutralizing a bar fight but han solo never like, talked darth vader into just giving up you get high enough up on the totem pole someone should not be like "well drat, you're right i've been wrong all along guess i'll just dismantle this whole vision for the world i've been spending years putting in place"
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Aug 16, 2018 08:48
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"Pacifist" playthroughs where opponents still end up dead, just not through the game's combat mechanics seems like a mockery of the term.
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Aug 16, 2018 08:48
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as someone said earlier the games where a "pacifist run" work best you're basically just shooting people with sleeping dart guns instead of bullet guns and really that's not terribly different
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Aug 16, 2018 09:11
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Berke Negri posted:as someone said earlier the games where a "pacifist run" work best you're basically just shooting people with sleeping dart guns instead of bullet guns and really that's not terribly different Yeah but can you cut off a "sleeping" person's head and use it as a magickal bag of holding to transport several hundred pounds of gold out of the haunted Sierra Madre casino?  EDIT: I mean, you can cut a sleeping person's head off. It's not like they're suddenly immune to it by virtue of being unconscious. But then their slumber is technically a little more permanent.
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Aug 16, 2018 09:35
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Berke Negri posted:as someone said earlier the games where a "pacifist run" work best you're basically just shooting people with sleeping dart guns instead of bullet guns and really that's not terribly different or in fallout 4s case dismissing your companions and then kiting them into enemies that you need to kill for whatever reason
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Aug 16, 2018 09:39
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Cream-of-Plenty posted:Yeah but can you cut off a "sleeping" person's head and use it as a magickal bag of holding to transport several hundred pounds of gold out of the haunted Sierra Madre casino? sounds like someone needs to l e t g o of that severed ankle containing 30000 caps worth of gold bars
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Aug 16, 2018 09:41
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the idea of the crpg genre being conductive to pacifism is so weird cause i can't really think of any that really do it without some very counter intuitive gameplaying old school adventure games are really more a thing of that and even then you usually ended up having to kill someone at the end
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Aug 16, 2018 09:51
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Clawtopsy posted:You don't need to buddy up with Kellogg, but there needs to be a myriad of ways to kill him/best him. See: Benny. They give you a fatman immediately prior to meeting him. You get to nuke him. You get to nuke him.
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Aug 16, 2018 10:04
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Berke Negri posted:the idea of the crpg genre being conductive to pacifism is so weird cause i can't really think of any that really do it without some very counter intuitive gameplaying let me play devil advocate: If the player feel a "no kill victory" is challenge. And theres tools to get it. it could be a fun thing. I am thinking games like KOTOR style, where you can murder everyone in a mercenary base, or enter the base has a new member and hack things in their back. If you just murder everyone, is just another shooting gallery, but if you talk to the mercenaries, you maybe will find a fun mercenary, interesting characters, good back story. the mercenary base can even be the hub for a few quests you do for the mercenaries, before you steal their stuff. CRPG very clearly can do this naturally, while it would be weird in other type of games.
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Aug 16, 2018 10:10
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its possible but pretty sure KOTOR games are all about killing everyone in some way, bioware games have never really had a pacifistic option edit: unless you go with [kick puppies] option and team up with the bad guys and then you're just killing spice workers or something instead of goons
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Aug 16, 2018 10:12
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[edit] is possible, I don't remember much about the details of the games my point is that yea, CRPG make it very natural to have pacifist runs, while it would be weird in other type of games
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Aug 16, 2018 10:14
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Like I said, there's MGS and there's Arkane games. And even then both of them throw a million lethal items at you to go "hey wouldn't it be cool to just kill people with this thing?" I'm sure there's indie games that do it too but 
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Aug 16, 2018 10:15
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like even KOTOR 2 by obsidian pretty sure you still got to fight at least someone cause its star wars you're not gonna go OKAY sith lord let's talk this out your options are [kill them] or [kill them because youre a sith lord were hosed up space libertarians with lazer swords lmao comn lets do THIS]
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Aug 16, 2018 10:21
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Nethack really takes the pacifist conduct to its logical limits and well beyond. The ideal strategy is running around with cream pies to help out your pet angel, stabbing particularly healthy enemies with level draining weapons, eating dog food and sleeping with every succubus that will give you the time of day. Scrolls of genocide don't break conduct either so if you find them, feel free to use them. And always wear a ring of conflict so that everywhere you go turns into a goddamn war zone. Pacifism!
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Aug 16, 2018 10:26
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like the old gold box dnd games were just tactical rpgs where problem solving is how to kill something the bg series is a string of definitely have to go into combat to move forward stuff 90s TES stuff is just wizardry dungeon crawling where hack n slash is all there is going on you gain experience fighting people has always been a TT tradition baked into the genre poe2 is kind of fixing this by detaching exp from fights but even in that game you still got to kill some people to move the story forward
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Aug 16, 2018 10:39
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Berke Negri posted:yeah i mean, don't get me wrong, more could have been done. far harbor showed that more could be done in at least giving more options in possible outcomes, but as a set piece itself i think it did its job I think the writing in 1 did a decent enough job of painting the master as someone who was committed to the plan he thought was going to save everyone and hadn't stopped to consider some of the less flashy details. New Vegas also did speech checks really well in that to convince major npcs like Benny or the legate you had to make multiple checks at increasing difficulty.
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Aug 16, 2018 13:54
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Iirc the Lanius speech checks also kind of made sense. Basically the courier told him that it would be too difficult and not worth it to hold the NCR's territory and that the smaller subfactions would resist and need to be conquered first.
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Aug 16, 2018 14:12
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lmao which speech checks are Speech 100: *making jedi hand gesture* you will felate the gun now especially in New Vegas. i honestly cant remember if there are many in 3, 3 is just a blurry mess Cyberpunkey Monkey posted:They give you a fatman immediately prior to meeting him. You get to nuke him. i get that in doom or borderlands not in something nominally story driven
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Aug 16, 2018 14:30
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Get the hell out of here with this “DOOM isn’t story driven” crap
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Aug 16, 2018 14:34
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You can convince president Eden to blow himself up by basically saying "come on Mr president, being evil isn't cool!" and then Malcolm McDowell says "yes I supposed you're right! Time to explode!"
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Aug 16, 2018 14:35
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It's a shame he doesn't just blow up in your face and kill you. Oddly ,Bethesda never really seemed to embrace the no win dick moves so many others had.
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Aug 16, 2018 15:00
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Wolfsheim posted:I'm sure there's indie games that do it too but 1337JiveTurkey posted:Nethack really takes the pacifist conduct to its logical limits and well beyond. Berke Negri posted:you gain experience fighting people has always been a TT tradition baked into the genre Undertale, while not a CRPG, is interesting in how it critiques RPG tropes. 
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Aug 16, 2018 15:00
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Settle an argument I'm having with a friend after a night of drinking and playing Fallout 4. Spoilers because DACK FAYDEN is still playing through. Synth Shaun is a Gen 3 Synth, however if you walk around the Institute you overhear conversations about how he's never going to age and therefore is always going to appear to be a 10 year old boy. Is this true for all the other Gen 3 Synths out there? Will Magnolia and Danse never appear to age? What about if you replace Avery and Tektus with synths? While they're on the wrong side of middle aged, are they ever going to age? Unless DIMA programmed them to fail and die like normal humans...but what about the synths that don't know they're synths? What happens to them? This post brought to you by an attempt to mix Mountain Dew High Voltage and Bacardi 151 to make Nuka-Cola Quantum...which was somewhat successful in making us feel like we both had rad sickness this morning.
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Aug 16, 2018 15:03
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CobiWann posted:
The Institute does not place much value on the long term implications of their plots, no.
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Aug 16, 2018 15:07
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I nuked the Institute mostly because their bioengineering department were keeping synthetic gorillas as pets rather than helping the Commonwealth with better crops or literally anything other than keeping synthetic gorillas as pets. They were the epitome of up their own rear end scientists doing incredibly stupid poo poo to see if they could without asking if they should.
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Aug 16, 2018 15:26
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Plus they were a blemish on the franchise's retrofuturistic aesthetic
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Aug 16, 2018 15:30
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My strategy to select a faction in a Fallout universe is "do they have clean bases?". If they bases are clean and ordered, I am more likely to side with that faction than if the faction has trash around and nobody care. The Institute > Enclave > Brotherhood of Steel > New Californian Republic >> Everyone else If the wastelands need one thing, is to put in charge people willing to move all the corpses to tombs, rebuild society. Even a bad society is better than having a ruinous chaos with bandits killing good people.
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Aug 16, 2018 15:31
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like not ugly or uncool, just a bit out of place in my humble fanboyish opinion
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Aug 16, 2018 15:33
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Tei posted:My strategy to select a faction in a Fallout universe is "do they have clean bases?". If they bases are clean and ordered, I am more likely to side with that faction than if the faction has trash around and nobody care. You, uhh, can't side with the enclave? And that entire society consists of what is basically "what if Blackwater lived in bunkers, was even more insane and fascist and their goal was to kill 99% of living beings" It's basically no different than the super mutants' plans in 3 or 4, they're just gonna burn the bodies instead of eating them and they wear clean nazi uniforms instead of orc gear.
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Aug 16, 2018 15:48
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SwitchbladeKult posted:Undertale, while not a CRPG, is interesting in how it critiques RPG tropes. EXP MEANS EXTERMINATION POINTS was the most hamfisted hack thing I'd seen in ages. He thought that was so drat clever too I am sure
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Aug 16, 2018 16:08
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I got Fallout 4 for PS4 this week and really enjoying it so far. I sank a ton of hours into Fallout 3 just exploring poo poo and so far this looks like it'll be much the same (but accompanied by a doggo this time  ).
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Aug 16, 2018 17:27
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Cyberpunkey Monkey posted:I nuked the Institute mostly because their bioengineering department were keeping synthetic gorillas as pets rather than helping the Commonwealth with better crops or literally anything other than keeping synthetic gorillas as pets. They were the epitome of up their own rear end scientists doing incredibly stupid poo poo to see if they could without asking if they should. 
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Aug 16, 2018 17:36
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