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Neddy Seagoon posted:Hang on, wait, flag on the play; No I'm pretty sure she gets it. Kinnaman did a really good job but you could just as easily had Will Yun Lee play Kovacs for the entire show without losing anything. Same applies for Ghost in the Shell. Just lol at the people getting offended by this type of criticism though especially for a show like this. DarkCrawler posted:Show was pretty good. Kinda confusing at times but so was the book. Expanse did set the bar pretty high in sci-fi book to TV adaptations by actually being superior to the source material in many ways. The Expanse has the benefit of actually having the authors writing and producing the show. I have no idea where they're going to take season two though. The second book in the trilogy is more Aliens than another cyberpunk noir story and I think a flat out adaption would lose a lot of the things that makes this series so good.
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Feb 6, 2018 23:20
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Neddy Seagoon posted:If you wanted to undermine one of the basic premises of the story, sure. The whole point of it being an asian guy in a white guy's body is to underline just how far off-base someone can go and that ethnicity fundamentally means nothing anymore. At every point in the story the reader/viewer is made to deal with the protagonist himself is someone in a body that's foreign in every respect. Being in another body is a well established science fiction trope and a whole bunch of movies and television series have been able to portray the same idea in different ways. But yes the whole point of the story is that ethnicity fundamentally means nothing anymore which is why he cannot be played by an Asian guy and must be played by a white guy. 
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Feb 7, 2018 02:39
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Did you miss that the body he's in is actually pertinent to the story beyond generic white guy? You see, as a hardcore science fiction fan, there was literally no other way to show or tell this and furthermore Solkanar512 posted:Is any of the alien stuff ever covered? Like how stacks were developed for human use or anything like that? Yes. The show doesn't really cover it but the alien stuff plays a pretty big part in the story and in how and why things are the way they are. The last two books of the trilogy is basically all alien stuff but I don't know if the show will stick with it since they've changed so much already.
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Feb 7, 2018 05:34
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Soooo the best way to show the divorce of body and identity is with an asian guy in an asian body? Yeah because all Asians don't actually look the same but going back to the original Times article, having an Asian actor play the original Kovacs wouldn't have affected the story in any meaningful way. You could either have an actor playing either as original Kovacs himself or as Ryker's sleeve and the audience would still be able to follow the story and be aware that Kovacs looks completely different to what he did originally. If other media from childrens shows like Doctor Who to critically acclaimed Jack Black 2001 comedy Shallow Hal can do it then I don't think it's going to be a problem even for TVIV goons. He could have just as easily been any nationality or sex and the show would have still worked great. It's still funny watch people demand that Kovacs has to be white though. I mean, what is this, the local?
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Feb 7, 2018 06:23
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pile of brown posted:Literally nobody did this, they just said that complaining about "whitewashing" a character who is explicitly and repeatedly described as a white man is loving dumb. Actually a shitload of people around the internet have been up in arms about this to the point where you even have Kalogridis come out and acknowledge that it's a problem but point out that she tried to offset this by having Kovacs also portrayed by two Asian men. They've already changed so much about Kovacs from his personality to his history but you still have people believe that changing the colour of his skin would somehow ruin the show. Gyges posted:I had read a review or two about the show that complained that the show took it's technology and came to the conclusion that immortality was bad. Having watched it, to me it seems that the show was pretty clear that the issue was rich assholes becoming too powerful and that power leading to corruption. Even good people are corrupted, because the limitless power is just too much. The show even goes out of it's way to give a voice to several people who are in favor of death, and to varying degrees shows how that's not the answer to the problem. I was surprised by this because the book takes a completely different approach to some of these issues. In the book Quellcrist isn't anti technology but flat out anti Protectorate because she believes that they're the ones holding humanity back. The books point to capitalism and fundamentalism (like Islam) being the main issue. It's basically the system that is broken and in some way, even the rich assholes at the top are unable to break out of their gilded cages. Kovacs is all about smashing revolutions and deriding the leadership of a revolution but at the same time, there are certain places where he does want to smash the state and bring out the guillotine. Especially with how the trilogy ends, power by itself isn't seen to be a problem. You could give society infinite technological power and a capitalist society will stay right where they are building centralised power structures on the ruins of the old. The rich and powerful will continue to enrich themselves before they all just stagnate while a, I don't know you'd call it but a socialist/transhuman society will use those same powers and go out exploring into the stars, build wormholes, discover FTL travel etc. FuriousGeorge posted:And have orbital alien laser turrets occasionally lighting up the sky. Are they even going to bring this stuff in? The show seems to have made a deliberate choice in cutting a lot of the Protectorate and the alien stuff out in favour of just focusing on the technology. It's a pretty big jump to go from a noir story to the next two books about aliens or space wars.
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Feb 8, 2018 04:07
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General Battuta posted:My personal take — and one I think is more or less objectively correct — is that You, your consciousness, isn't a big unitary nugget of Me-ness that's either all there or all gone. It's a live state built from your memories, your senses, your physical and mental characteristics. At every moment that state's changing. If your brain state is rolled back two weeks and started again, it's a different you...but you're always becoming a different you anyway. The information loss isn't enormous compared to the sum total of your experiences. You could almost view it as an extremely lovely 'new memory': your brain was updated (by a bullet) in such a way as to remove a lot of information. In this view it's not much different from day to day life, where you might get blasted through the head with a steel rod or get Alzheimers but still be 'you'. I love this sort of stuff and I really wish that the show went into it deeper. Just from the book and the series, I'd argue that you die the minute you lose your sleeve simply because the show makes a big deal about the body having such an impact on your mind. Like yeah people might come to love neo Nazi abuela as the original but she's come back with all the faults and quirks that her new sleeve has. Even with his magical envoy powers, Kovacs still has his nicotine addiction and the muscle memory of Ryker. It's not something that he can just shake and Me-Prime isn't going to remain be Me-Prime in Me-Backup if Me-Backup gets dumped into the sleeve of a hardcore drug addict or incapacitated elderly person. Memories are important but biology plays a pretty big deal in shaping who you are too.
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Feb 12, 2018 08:14
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Showrunner did another interview with EW that's probably worth a read since it has some stuff about a possible season 2
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Feb 13, 2018 03:42
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