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Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

So long, Ex-Ma Fergie!


Also as of this game I'm on a 10 game non town streak.

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Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

Why won't he die?


Natural 20 posted:

Also as of this game I'm on a 10 game non town streak.

##vote Nat20

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

So long, Ex-Ma Fergie!


Tobbs Gnawed posted:

##vote Nat20

At this point policy voting me until I flip town seems like a viable tactic.

Podima
Nov 4, 2009

so long suckers! i rev up my linking book structure and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely trapped in another age

Natural 20 posted:

What? I'd do it myself if I thought it gave an advantage. At the time I wasn't even upset that you were. I mean even in this game I tried to time my posting to times when I knew people favourable to me were more likely to be about.

I think weíll have to agree to disagree - this is one of those strats that I think pushes a border in a way I personally dislike. Thatís why I got so annoyed at being accused of it!

Max
Nov 30, 2002



Itís a dumb accusation to make about someone and does cross into an irl line that isnít really fair, Iím with pod on this.

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

So long, Ex-Ma Fergie!


Podima posted:

I think weíll have to agree to disagree - this is one of those strats that I think pushes a border in a way I personally dislike. Thatís why I got so annoyed at being accused of it!

Yeah fair enough. I personally think it's just part of the game, but I suppose I'm very used to it since because of Europe time I'm rarely going to be awake for deadlines.

Bifauxnen
Aug 11, 2010

YOLO FRONTLINE


I don't know, scum have got to fake a whole lot of stuff. I mean one of the most basic things you might have to do as scum is accusing someone of being a big lying liar to frame you up when they're really town and they're right cause they got you, and that can make anyone mad. It's why this game gets so emotional and why I have so much fun being town, I can get all riled up in righteous anger but over stuff that's ultimately a silly game that doesn't matter.

Compared to the standard scum toolkit of questioning your honesty, your believability, your intelligence in accusing them... questioning your willingness to use an underhanded tactic like timezones just seems pretty tame to me. I guess it seems way too awful for Pod because it's a tactic he'd never ever want to use himself, and it offended him to be thought of as capable of it. Maybe because it's giving such personal attention and effort to hitting one person when they're most disadvantaged and can't fight back?

But hell, even if someone DID use that tactic... how different is it ultimately, from tailoring a fakeclaim or an argument to hit someone where they're most likely to believe it? If you feel bad for posting when someone can't respond and has lost their voice, should you also wrack yourself with guilt for every nightkill that removes their voice entirely?

Max
Nov 30, 2002



This particular argument sucks because it's

A) Dumb. There is literally no way to proove that is happening. You can't even really infer it, so there's no point in even making it to begin with if you're town.

B) Assumes that a player is using real world factors to screw you over, which is something that's been brought up a lot recently in a few games, in regards to the ability to participate during certain times of the day. People have work schedules / time zone differences / family issues that sometimes stop us from posting at certain times of the day. Using that against someone is kind of lovely and has nothing to do with the substance of what they are posting. I know Pod is particularly cognizant of this so being accused of it was rankling.

Max fucked around with this message at Feb 24, 2018 around 21:56

GulagDolls
Jun 4, 2011



let's not pretend it doesn't happen. i've definitely noticed that certain people (bif, gaspy, birdstrike, infinitum, tithin, tommunist) only make cases when i'm asleep. not sure what the connection is but they should be put on trial

Asphyxious
Jun 25, 2012

People are ignorant. They'll feel better as long as someone is punished.


GulagDolls posted:

let's not pretend it doesn't happen. i've definitely noticed that certain people (bif, gaspy, birdstrike, infinitum, tithin, tommunist) only make cases when i'm asleep. not sure what the connection is but they should be put on trial

Iíll rebut this in 8 hours time.

tithin
Nov 14, 2003

HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa


Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Max posted:

This particular argument sucks because it's

A) Dumb. There is literally no way to proove that is happening. You can't even really infer it, so there's no point in even making it to begin with if you're town.

B) Assumes that a player is using real world factors to screw you over, which is something that's been brought up a lot recently in a few games, in regards to the ability to participate during certain times of the day. People have work schedules / time zone differences / family issues that sometimes stop us from posting at certain times of the day. Using that against someone is kind of lovely and has nothing to do with the substance of what they are posting. I know Pod is particularly cognizant of this so being accused of it was rankling.

Shockingly, I feel like can see both sides to this discussion.

On one hand, I think it's not a great case to make. At some point I feel like it should be a given that Mafia Doesn't Always Come First, and I'd like to hope that that isn't actually a case that town has ever actually executed someone over. I hate when I have stuff to do and people start giving me crap for not always being around, so I don't want to be accepted as a norm for mafia games.

On the other, as someone who just scummed twice in a row and found it grueling (I can't even imagine what Nat20's streak is like), coming up with fake content to case people on is hard enough already, even with everything on the table. I feel like "this person is posting as much as usual" has to be a thing that can be used. That said, I think more often than not, scum is the one using it - I've definitely done it before and it's never meant as personal or as a reflection of another player's priorities. It's just that, at least for me, it's a really useful crutch case that can't be proven one way or the other, and my scum game isn't good enough for deep casework that holds up.

Maybe the natural way to deal with casework like that is to recognize that it usually reflects more on the author than the target, and to shape cases using that info?

GeneX
Sep 29, 2014

Pathetic.
Awful Games Done Quick 2018 Survivor


Timing cases are weird and unfun to argue against, though they have a sliver of merit in a ďstraw the broke the camelís backĒ sort of case where itís less an egregious act and more a series of scummy things.

the problem is that the only counterargument is ďgently caress offď

Birdstrike
Oct 30, 2008

NRL
Teaching new dogs,
old tricks.



thx for running cpig

I hope you mean fft: advance, the best FF

Lando131
Jul 27, 2006

This is one way to find scum...

This was fun to read and PS please finish the LP.

Bifauxnen
Aug 11, 2010

YOLO FRONTLINE


Even if the timezone case couldnt be any good for a town to make, it definitely succeeded in its more indirect aim - it painted Nat as sounding wildly different from his earlier games, making me and I think at least a couple others believe this might be his never-before-seen town game.

Max
Nov 30, 2002



I think itís a bad argument and will probably always call it that.

Podima
Nov 4, 2009

so long suckers! i rev up my linking book structure and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely trapped in another age

More to the point I don't think it's an argument that should be tolerated because it stretches beyond the scope of the game itself into people's existence beyond it. But this discussion has run its course so I'll leave it at that.

Thanks for the game, CPig!

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Tired Moritz
Mar 25, 2012

wish Lowtax would get tired of YOUR POSTS

(n o i c e)


Natural 20 posted:

Also as of this game I'm on a 10 game non town streak.

Have you thought of gambling

Also I cant believe I finally won a Cpig game even though I did nothing. Yay!

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