US Immigration Policy Megathread

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Instant Sunrise: Apr 12, 2007; The manger babies don't have feelings. You said it yourself.

As the thread title suggests, this is a thread to discuss the immigration policy debate in the United States.

Since this is very broad topic, This OP is just going to give a brief overview of these topics.

A History of US Immigration Policy
For just about the first century of the United States' existence as a country, there were no laws governing the act of entering the country. Instead, policy concerned with immigration was focused on naturalization. For the first half of the 19th century, for an immigrant to become a citizen, they had to meet these requirements:

Be a "free white."
Live in the United States for 5 years.
Declare their intent to become a citizen 3 years in advance.
If you fought for the British in the Revolutionary War, your state's legislature had to make an exception for you.
If you were white, and you were born in the US to a white person, or if you were born abroad to a US Citizen, you were automatically a citizen.

Following the 14th amendment, this was expanded in 1870 to cover black people, but nobody else.

And with the 14th Amendment, anybody born in the US is a citizen.

When the US annexed what's now California, Nevada, Utah, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, and a little bit of Colorado, Wyoming, Oklahoma, and Kansas, the Mexican residents were given the choice to leave or stay and become US citizens. Most stayed, and were declared legally white.

Beginning in the second half of the 19th century, white people start assuming that the flux of immigrants from China were indentured servants or prostitutes, and began passing laws to restrict immigration from East Asia, most notably with the "Chinese Exclusion Act," which is exactly what it sounds like, the first law passed that restricted not just citizenship, but the act of entering the country.

In 1906, Teddy Roosevelt reorganizes immigration and naturalization and adds an English literacy requirement. Immigration Laws are now solely the responsibility of the federal government.

By 1910, immigrants make up just under 15% of the US population, this percentage has yet to be matched.

In 1917, 1921, and 1924 Congress passes far-reaching immigration restrictions that severely limit immigration from Europe, Africa, the Middle East, and Asia with the explicit goal of keeping America white and protestant. Immigration from the Americas however, is unaffected. In the years leading up to World War II, these laws would have extremely tragic consequences for Jewish people fleeing antisemitism in Europe as they were turned away and sent back to Europe, where the literal holocaust was waiting for them.

In the 1930's during the early days of the Great Depression, there was a fear that Mexican-Americans, many of whom were descendants of people who had the border move underneath them in 1848 and 1853, were taking (white) American jobs. So Herber Hoover ordered huge sweeps that grabbed up everybody who was Hispanic and sent them to Mexico, even though over half of them were US Citizens by birth. Between half a million and two million Mexican-Americans were forced out of the country. Incidentally, this made the Great Depression worse.

Also in WW2, the draft was calling up so many young men off of their farms and into the Army, that there was a huge labor shortage for agricultural workers, and so in 1942, congress enacted the Bracero program, which would fill labor shortages with underpaid contract labor. The laborers who were participating in the program were all men, and they would be brought in, work for a period of time, and then go back to Mexico until they were needed again. It was not permanent migration for the purposes of residency but an ephemeral labor force that was easy to exploit.

And boy howdy was the Bracero program exploited, with workers being underpaid, part of their paychecks being taken from them and put into savings accounts they couldn't access, in addition to pretty awful housing conditions (with no other options).

After the war, the Bracero program was continued, as many of the returning soldiers used the GI Bill benefits to not do agricultural work, meaning that Congress elected to continue the Braceo program, expanding it even.

This whole time, there was still a de facto ban on immigration from Southern Europe, Africa, the Middle East and Asia, but as the Cold War starts to happen and the US is positioning themselves as the champion of freedom and democracy, this is really not a good look.

By 1970, the percentage of immigrants in the US has dropped to under 5%.

So in 1964, congress ends the Bracero program, and in 1965 LBJ, Along with Rep. Emmanuel Celler (D-NY), and Phillip Hart (D-MI) pass the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965, commonly called Hart-Celler. This law removes the racist as all hell national origins quota in favor of preferences based on family reunification and employability. It makes it way easier for people from Asia, Africa, Southern Europe, and the Middle East to come to the US, but it also restricts the number of people who can enter the US from Western Hemisphere countries for the first time ever. But the demand for cheap migrant labor hasn't gone anywhere, since the economy had grown kinda dependent on the Bracero program, and so a lot of the same practices under the Bracero program continue, but now without the legal smokescreen, which makes it even more exploitative.

This is when Undocumented Immigration really starts to become a thing. But at this stage, there's very little enforcement, so Undocumented Immigrants are still young men who come up for a short period of time to do work and then go back home. Until the 80's the number are fairly low and constant.

In Los Angeles, LAPD chief Daryl Gates, the man responsible for SWAT teams, DARE, CRASH, and Operation Hammer (the LAPD policies that caused the LA Riots), issues Special Order 40, which tells cops that enforcing immigration laws is a federal matter and to let the feds handle it. This is not because Gates is some friend to the immigrant community. This is because bored cops were grabbing anybody who looked vaguely brown and charging them with "Unauthorized Entry" to fill quotas. But Special Order 40 is the first codified Sanctuary City policy.

And then war on drugs happens.

The war on drugs really, really, fucks up Latin America. And this destabilization means that quite a lot of people are looking elsewhere to live because of it. Namely, the US. But because of Hart-Celler, nowhere near enough people are able to enter the country legally, but the risks of staying are such that it's better to chance crossing the border than to stick it out.

So beginning in the 80's, the numbers of people entering the US without authorization begins to climb steadily.

In 1994, California passes Prop 187, which tries to restrict undocumented immigrants from receiving government services, this gets struck down, and the backlash is so harsh that it basically kills the GOP in California.

In 1996, Clinton passes IIRIRA, which further cracks down on undocumented immigration including a bunch of really shady practices like "secret evidence," and starts the process of building a border fence. Ironically, this doesn't do much to slow down undocumented immigration and it continues to increase afterwards. The composition of undocumented immigrants changes at this time. With enforcement having been increased, the risks of getting caught when crossing seasonally when there's work are too high, so migrant families start coming over in larger groups and establishing residency, the idea being that it's less risky to bring the family across once than to cross back and forth every year.

2007 is the year that undocumented immigration from Mexico peaks. After that, the economic slump and increasing racism towards Hispanic-americans causes the population of undocumented immigrants to stop climbing and start falling.

Important Immigration-related court cases

United States v. Wong Kim Ark: The Supreme Court rules that anybody born in the US who's parents do not have diplomatic immunity, are automatically citizens.

Chy Lung v. Freeman: Enforcement of Immigration Laws is the sole province of the federal government and states can't set their own rules.

United States v. Brignoni-Ponce: Cops can't just pull somebody over they think is carrying undocumented immigrants because the occupants of the car appear to be Mexican and they're driving near the border.

Plyer v. Doe: Texas tries to pass a law that says that children who are undocumented immigrants aren't allowed to go to school. The Supreme Court steps in and says 'yeah they can, and you cannot deny government services to people based on immigration status.'

Arizona v. United States: Hey assholes, immigration law is the sole responsibility of the federal government, stop trying to go around it.

Immigration Policy Today
Today, immigration into the United States is governed by the framework created by Hart-Celler. It's a long, complex, and costly process, with waiting lists that are decades long.

This flowchart from 2008 is a pretty decent summary of the current immigration process, even if it was made the Reason Foundation:

Currently, the far-right are trying to restrict legal immigration by going after family reunification (or in far-right terminology, "chain migration."), as well as the diversity visa lottery program established under George H.W. Bush.

Key Takeaways of Immigration Policy

Immigration Laws are the sole purview of the federal government, not the states.
Undocumented Immigration is relatively recent and is the result of backfiring policies.
The United States can't stop loving things up in Latin America.
Immigration Policy has a history of being really loving racist.

Recommended Reading, courtesy of After The War

Sarah Stillman - "When Deportation Is a Death Sentence" (New Yorker, January 15, 2018 issue)

quote:

Ana Lopez, the mother of a twenty-year-old gay asylum seeker named Nelson Avila-Lopez, wrote a letter to the U.S. government during Christmas week in 2011, two months after Immigration and Customs Enforcement accidentally deported him to Honduras. Nelson had fled the country at seventeen, after receiving gang threats. He�d entered the U.S. unauthorized and been ordered removed, but an immigration judge then granted him an emergency stay of his deportation so that he could reopen his case for asylum. An ICE agent told his family�s legal team that Nelson was deported because �someone screwed up,� and ICE alleges that the proper office had not been notified of the judge�s stay.

�His life is in danger,� Ana Lopez wrote, begging U.S. authorities to reverse her son�s deportation. Her efforts proved fruitless. Two months later, Nelson died in a prison fire, along with more than three hundred and fifty other inmates. His lawyer told me that Nelson had been detained by the Honduran government without charges, in an anti-gang initiative. Survivors of the fire alleged that it was set intentionally, perhaps as an act of gang retaliation, and that the guards had done little to help the men as they screamed and burned to death in their cells.

(Be warned, it gets pretty gruesome at points. But for a group that's been so dehumanized, sometimes it takes that gut reaction to remember that these are people.)

"Madison Paul - How a Private Prison Company Used Detained Immigrants for Free Labor, and what it could mean for the future of immigration detention in America." (Mother Jones, April 3, 2017)

quote:

The lawsuit also argues that the sanitation policy violated the Trafficking Victims Protection Act, a modern anti-slavery statute. To maintain cleanliness in the housing units, GEO used housekeeping crews like the one Ortiz was assigned to when he arrived at Aurora. According to GEO�s local detainee handbook, refusing to clean was considered a �high moderate�-level offense and was punishable by several possible sanctions, including up to three days of so-called �disciplinary segregation�: solitary confinement. Plaintiff Demetrio Valerga told the court in a statement that he �did the work anyway because it was well known that those who refused to do that work for free were put in �the hole.'� With the sanitation policy in place, the company employed just one janitor for the 1,500-bed facility.

Michelle Chen - "ICE�s Captive Immigrant Labor Force" (The Nation, October 11, 2017)

quote:

In a 2012 investigation of four ICE detention facilities in Georgia, the ACLU of Georgia described ICE detainees� being held in unsanitary, inhumane, isolating conditions, and regularly forced to work full-time for about $1 to $3 a day. Because of sparse rations, ACLU reported, �some detainees began to work in the kitchen just so they could eat more�. one detainee lost 68 pounds.� Their �volunteering,� in other words, involved literally working for food.

(Tons of links in that one.)

Spencer Woodman � �Private Prison Continues to Send ICE Detainees to Solitary Confinement for Refusing Voluntary Labor� (The Intercept, January 11 2018)

quote:

Shoaib Ahmed, a 24-year-old who immigrated to America to escape political persecution in Bangladesh, told The Intercept that the privately run detention center placed him in isolation for 10 days after an officer overheard him simply saying �no work tomorrow.� Ahmed said he was expressing frustration over the detention center � run by prison contractor CoreCivic � having delayed his weekly paycheck of $20 for work in the facility�s kitchen. ...

In addition to severe isolation, Ahmed spoke of being subjected to restrictive treatment in segregation that might be more expected for a violent and volatile criminal than for an immigration detainee under punishment for encouraging a work stoppage. Once a day, detention center officers would handcuff Ahmed and escort him outdoors for an hour in a recreation yard � which he described as a �cage� for one person. Three times a week, Ahmed and other detainees in solitary confinement were given the opportunity to shower. This meant being guided in handcuffs from his isolation cell to an individual shower room. �They push you into the shower room and then open the handcuffs,� Ahmed said, adding: �You take a shower and after that, you come back in your room. Then they put you back in the room. When you enter the room again, they open the handcuffs.� ...

In an October response to a suit from detainees in Colorado, major private prison contractor GEO Group appeared to echo this point. �Were a court to conclude that GEO must pay thousands of detainees a minimum wage, it would significantly affect the prices that GEO would have charge for its services,� stated a GEO Group court filing. The Colorado class-action suit, which demands that detainees be paid minimum wage for their labor, �poses a potentially catastrophic risk to GEO�s ability to honor its contracts with the federal government,� the firm stated in a separate filing.

Instant Sunrise fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Feb 16, 2018

# ? Feb 6, 2018 02:59

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# ? Apr 25, 2024 10:24

Instant Sunrise: Apr 12, 2007; The manger babies don't have feelings. You said it yourself.

Immigration Enforcement

Hey, so remember how I said that for the first hundred years that the United States existed as a country there were no law restricting immigration, only citizenship? Well, the early government's sole revenue source was from taxes on imports, it shouldn't be a surprise that they wasted no time setting up a customs agency for setting duties and tariffs on goods coming into the United States. The US Customs Service is about as old as the country, but never really bothered with the flow of people coming in.

However, once the federal government started restricting immigration in 1882 with the Chinese Exclusion Act and the Immigration Act of 1882, the US Government Set up a new department that was the Bureau of Immigration, and they were the ones who processed immigrants coming into the country through ports of entry like Ellis Island.

And the bureau would then merged with the Bureau of Naturalization in the 1930's to form the Immigration and Naturalization Service, aka INS, aka la migra. This agency was originally organized under the Department of Commerce (then called the Department of Commerce and Labor), and they were tasked with enforcing immigration laws. Keep in mind that undocumented immigration at this point was next to non-existent, so the agency didn't have a whole lot to do beyond butchering peoples names at Ellis Island.

At least until World War 2.

After Pearl Harbor happened, FDR got this idea that not a single Japanese immigrant could be trusted, and ordered them to be rounded up and put into camps. And it was the INS who did the deed. Using their own information and Census data, the INS swept through Japanese-American communities and started arresting people just because.

The internment of Japanese Americans is one of the more shameful moments in American History, but the INS and the successor agencies in the Department of Homeland Security, including the infamous ICE even acknowledge this, lol.

But one of the changes in how the INS was operated was that during the war, they were moved from the Department of Commerce and Labor to the Department of Justice, in order to enable the internments and a need for "more effective control over aliens."

yeah....

So the war ends and the Bracero program that had been set up proves to be inadequate to handle the demand for agricultural labor from Mexico, so people were crossing the border illegally to get farm work, the numbers seemed large at the time but it was nowhere near what it would become in more recent years. Now, Mexico after the war was trying like hell to industrialize, but were running into the problem that for a lot of people in Northern Mexico, the only real opportunities was agricultural work in the US.

So the Mexican Government called on the US to do something about this. So President Eisenhower started militarizing the border a tiny bit.

But that wasn't enough.

So in 1954, the US launched Operation Wetback, which was a series of deportation sweeps through immigrant communities to round up undocumented immigrants from Mexico and send them back. And it was a humanitarian disaster, with people being taken so fast that they didn't even have time to grab personal belongings, being dropped off nowhere near where their families were and without any way of contacting them, even being held in temperatures of 112 degrees to the point where 88 people died from the heat, border patrol agents would shave the heads of people deported, and would often beat them quite severely.

However, at the same time as Operation Wetback was cracking down on undocumented immigration, the Bracero program was hugely expanded at the same time under Eisenhower. So often times, people "deported" under operation wetback were taken to a US consulate, signed up for the Bracero program, loaded back up onto a bus and sent back to the US under the legal smokescreen on the Bracero program.

After the Bracero Program ends and Hart-Celler is passed, undocumented immigration starts to become a thing again, Reagan tries to stem the flow by passing an amnesty bill in 1986 that grandfathers in any undocumented immigrant that was here before 1982 and pays back taxes and a fine, but the War on Drugs is still destabilizing the poo poo out of Latin America, so that barely does anything.

But after Operation Wetback, there's no major border enforcement actions like that until 1994, when Bill Clinton launches Operation Gatekeeper.

Under Operation Gatekeeper, Bill Clinton and Janet Reno militarize the poo poo out of the US-Mexico border. And as a result, this send Undocumented Immigrants eastward towards Otay Mesa and forces them to rely or Coyotes to smuggle them across the border. And this changes the demographic composition of undocumented immigrants from a churn of young men looking for seasonal work to send money back home to entire families coming across the border to stay. The people who would later go on to be known DREAMers started being brought over to the US around this time.

And then 9/11 happened.

After 9/11 happened and we got to WATCH BUSH START A loving WAR, the INS was moved from the DOJ to be under the newly formed Department of Homeland Security. And it was broken up and reorganized and had bits of other agencies grafted to it at the end.

The INS was combined with the US Customs Service and restructured.

The part of the INS that handles immigration paperwork and visas was reorganized into the US Customs and Immigration Service (USCIS)
The part of the INS that handled deportation and detainment of unauthorized immigrants was expanded and split off into "Immigration and Customs Enforcement," or ICE for short.

gently caress ICE. Seriously.

ICE has one job, lock people up for entering the country illegally and deport them. GWB gave them a fuckload of lattitude, ostensibly so that the newly reorganized agency could find their feet, but Obama really failed to reign them in beyond setting up DACA and some token restrictions.

ICE operates a bunch of "detention centers" across the country, some are rented space in county or city jails, and other are old hotels or apartment buildings that are designed not to look like immigration jails, and even more are private prisons. the conditions there are really bad, with people in them being denied medical care, given moldy food, packed into extremely cramped conditions, and looking the other way as people interning in them are sexually assaulted.

The conditions that the people held in these ICE detention centers are beyond appalling and under Trump, it's only gotten worse.

Instant Sunrise fucked around with this message at 09:27 on Feb 6, 2018

# ? Feb 6, 2018 03:06

Spiffster: Oct 7, 2009; I'm good... I Haven't slept for a solid 83 hours, but yeah... I'm good...; Lipstick Apathy

You can�t overstate how much the Chinese exclusion act and the KKK had on our immigration policy. If I can dig through some of my old texts I can try to do some elaborating but it depends on my time.

Thank you so much for making this thread

# ? Feb 6, 2018 03:15

joepinetree: Apr 5, 2012

I highly recommend the work of Douglas Massey on immigration to understand the mess we are currently in and how it is the result of a bipartisan effort to look tough on immigration that completely backfired.
Especially this one:

https://web.stanford.edu/group/scspi/_media/working_papers/massey_new-latino-underclass.pdf

# ? Feb 6, 2018 03:29

Instant Sunrise: Apr 12, 2007; The manger babies don't have feelings. You said it yourself.

Spiffster posted:

You can�t overstate how much the Chinese exclusion act and the KKK had on our immigration policy. If I can dig through some of my old texts I can try to do some elaborating but it depends on my time.

Thank you so much for making this thread

Yep. Woodrow �basically a klan member� Wilson pushed the 1917 Act, which severely restricted immigration in the early 20th century.

# ? Feb 6, 2018 03:31

Arrgytehpirate: Oct 2, 2011; I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

drat, that's an amazing OP.

I didn't know, well, any of that stuff.

It's interesting to think about what immigration might look like if the war on drugs never happened. It seems everywhere you look and dig beneath the surface it always comes back to the loving war on drugs.

I asked in the Trump thread, but it moves fast and I'm sure something dumb was tweeted so I never got an answer.

What would an ideal immigration policy look like? Right now the concerns are clearly dreamers and those who've lived here for 5-30 years undocumented, but let's just assume we blanket give everyone in the U.S. as of the passing of this hypothetical legislation citizenship. What does a fair immigration policy look like?

Arrgytehpirate fucked around with this message at 03:39 on Feb 6, 2018

# ? Feb 6, 2018 03:33

Azhais: Feb 5, 2007; Switchblade Switcharoo

We need to offer terms and surrender that particular war

# ? Feb 6, 2018 03:37

bump_fn: Apr 12, 2004; _{two of them}

its loving trash op hth

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Feb 6, 2018 03:38

Instant Sunrise: Apr 12, 2007; The manger babies don't have feelings. You said it yourself.

Arrgytehpirate posted:

drat, that's an amazing OP.

I didn't know, well, any of that stuff.

It's interesting to think about what immigration might look like if the war on drugs never happened. It seems everywhere you look and dig beneath the surface it always comes back to the loving war on drugs.

I asked in the Trump thread, but it moves fast and I'm sure something dumb was tweeted so I never got an answer.

What would an ideal immigration policy look like? Right now the concerns are clearly dreamers and those who've lived here for 5-30 years undocumented, but let's just assume we blanket give everyone in the U.S. as of the passing of this hypothetical legislation citizenship. What does a fair immigration policy look like?

Go to a consulate, pay $30 for an permanent entry permit, come to America, stay for 2 years and become a citizen.

# ? Feb 6, 2018 03:44

Lightning Knight: Feb 24, 2012; Pray for Answer

gently caress ICE and nativists, solidarity with immigrants and workers.

# ? Feb 6, 2018 04:00

Instant Sunrise: Apr 12, 2007; The manger babies don't have feelings. You said it yourself.

Lightning Knight posted:

gently caress ICE and nativists, solidarity with immigrants and workers.

ICE is loving awful and needs to be disbanded with its directors facing criminal charges yesterday.

# ? Feb 6, 2018 04:05

augias: Apr 7, 2009

Thanks for reminding me to note my A-number somewhere in my home, in my wife's phone, and her laptop, in case ice decides to throw me in mystery prison while my green card process is pending

# ? Feb 6, 2018 04:18

Bicyclops: Aug 27, 2004

This is a good grounds for discussion. I think the late 1800s and early 1900s are an interesting era to look at because of the rise of eugenics in the U.S., and how that influenced immigration quotas by region (among other things, some of which are still present with us today). I'll see if I can post a bit more on it later.

There's a lot to branch out into, too, given that this discussion will naturally look into the evolving definition of whiteness, regional differences, sanctuary cities, and lot of other things.

# ? Feb 6, 2018 04:23

Spiffster: Oct 7, 2009; I'm good... I Haven't slept for a solid 83 hours, but yeah... I'm good...; Lipstick Apathy

augias posted:

Thanks for reminding me to note my A-number somewhere in my home, in my wife's phone, and her laptop, in case ice decides to throw me in mystery prison while my green card process is pending

Don�t have an I-797 to back your application status?

# ? Feb 6, 2018 04:28

Instant Sunrise: Apr 12, 2007; The manger babies don't have feelings. You said it yourself.

Bicyclops posted:

This is a good grounds for discussion. I think the late 1800s and early 1900s are an interesting era to look at because of the rise of eugenics in the U.S., and how that influenced immigration quotas by region (among other things, some of which are still present with us today). I'll see if I can post a bit more on it later.

There's a lot to branch out into, too, given that this discussion will naturally look into the evolving definition of whiteness, regional differences, sanctuary cities, and lot of other things.

I touched on sanctuary cities in the OP when I mentioned special order 40, but yeah I definitely want to do a full write up about that.

# ? Feb 6, 2018 04:37

CAPS LOCK BROKEN: Feb 1, 2006; by Fluffdaddy

Epic writeup OP.

It should also be emphasized that the replacement for national origins quotas was originally going to a merit based system, but southern and midwestern democrats were cagey that it would allow too many nonwhites in the country too quickly so they settled on family unification, which in a 90% white america at the time would preserve their racial majority longer.

# ? Feb 6, 2018 05:58

RuanGacho: Jun 20, 2002; "You're gunna break it!"

Immigration is a personal subject for my family so I'm glad to see it handled with care, thank you.

# ? Feb 6, 2018 06:06

LegendaryFrog: Oct 8, 2006; The Mastered Mind

This OP is providing a great service, thank you.

I am still in disbelief that with how broken our current immigration system is, with multi-decade wait times if you can "get in line" at all, that the general consensus from nearly half our representatives is that we need to further restrict legal immigration. That desire is met with seemingly little awareness that increased difficulty of legal immigration could possibly result in increased illegal immigration.

It speaks to the effectiveness of manipulative messaging and good ol' racism.

# ? Feb 6, 2018 06:14

Dead Reckoning: Sep 13, 2011

Instant Sunrise posted:

Go to a consulate, pay $30 for an permanent entry permit, come to America, stay for 2 years and become a citizen.

This isn't exactly compatible with a strong and generous welfare state though. E: Or strong labor protections. Also, we definitely need a way to screen out violent criminals.

Dead Reckoning fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Feb 6, 2018

# ? Feb 6, 2018 06:22

Instant Sunrise: Apr 12, 2007; The manger babies don't have feelings. You said it yourself.

Peven Stan posted:

Epic writeup OP.

It should also be emphasized that the replacement for national origins quotas was originally going to a merit based system, but southern and midwestern democrats were cagey that it would allow too many nonwhites in the country too quickly so they settled on family unification, which in a 90% white america at the time would preserve their racial majority longer.

Bingo. Family reunification was prioritized to get Southern and Midwestern conservatives to vote for it on the idea that it would keep America white.

Now that same provisions being called �chain migration� and treated like some huge evil by those same groups.

# ? Feb 6, 2018 06:31

viral spiral: Sep 19, 2017; by R. Guyovich

I would say open the floodgates, but then I remembered it would primarily benefit corporate profits and monopolies.

# ? Feb 6, 2018 06:41

Ormi: Feb 7, 2005; B-E-H-A-V-E
Arrest us!

viral spiral posted:

I would say open the floodgates, but then I remembered it would primarily benefit corporate profits and monopolies.

So does breathing.

:capitalism:

# ? Feb 6, 2018 06:59

Instant Sunrise: Apr 12, 2007; The manger babies don't have feelings. You said it yourself.

added a section about immigration enforcement and ICE to the post after the OP.

# ? Feb 6, 2018 09:28

augias: Apr 7, 2009

Spiffster posted:

Don’t have an I-797 to back your application status?

Am i supposed to carry that poo poo around on me daily? Fine I guess. Seems like a tall order to ask ice agents to count 180 days past the date the form was received vs throwing me in a detention facility

# ? Feb 6, 2018 13:14

joepinetree: Apr 5, 2012

Good op. I would just add the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996 to the list of 1996 laws, because it goes hand in hand with IIRIRA in terms of expanding the list of crimes that are deportable, setting up cooperation with local law enforcement, and, more importantly reducing judicial review and the forms of defense that can be used against deportation.

# ? Feb 6, 2018 15:17

CAPS LOCK BROKEN: Feb 1, 2006; by Fluffdaddy

Dead Reckoning posted:

This isn't exactly compatible with a strong and generous welfare state though. E: Or strong labor protections. Also, we definitely need a way to screen out violent criminals.

It may shock you to find out that the welfare state predates border controls. The first german nation state had a welfare state in the 1880s well before modern borders were a thing during WWI.

Also thanks for repeating the racist lie that immigrants just want to move here to take advantage of the white mans largesse. In America legal immigrants are banned from most welfare programs for 5 years after permanent residency.

# ? Feb 6, 2018 15:47

Spiffster: Oct 7, 2009; I'm good... I Haven't slept for a solid 83 hours, but yeah... I'm good...; Lipstick Apathy

augias posted:

Am i supposed to carry that poo poo around on me daily? Fine I guess. Seems like a tall order to ask ice agents to count 180 days past the date the form was received vs throwing me in a detention facility

I wish you didn�t have to but if ICE are being poo poo heels make a copy of it and keep it on your person.

Sorry it�s the first thing that came to my head as proof of why you�d have expired docs. Just trying to help :sigh:

# ? Feb 6, 2018 17:24

Instant Sunrise: Apr 12, 2007; The manger babies don't have feelings. You said it yourself.

So, an undocumented immigrant did a thing, and our POTUS used it as an opportunity to paint all undocumented immigrants with a broad brush.

Let's talk about this. This is a fatal traffic accident with a somewhat famous person being killed. Drunk driving accidents are in no way rare, and occur way too much. But most of the time we don't hear about them because the victims aren't minor celebrities or the person responsible isn't a member of a class that's being used as a scapegoat.

Except of course, it's in no way representative of the undocumented immigrant population.

In actuality, immigrants, documented or otherwise commit crimes at lower rates than native-born citizens.

But that's not what this is about. America has a long history of blaming immigrant populations for the social ills of the day. Ben Franklin raged against German immigrants, and Alexander Hamilton supported the Alien and Sedition Acts, which changed the waiting period for citizenship from 5 years to 14 years.

The Examination Number VIII, January 12th, 1802 posted:

The influx of foreigners must, therefore, tend to produce a heterogeneous compound; to change and corrupt the national spirit; to complicate and confound public opinion; to introduce foreign propensities.

___________________________________________________/

And in the mid 19th century, you have the anti-catholic and entirely unaware of the irony, "Native American Party," better known as the "Know-Nothing Party."

In 1900, the city of San Francisco literally put up barbed wire around SF's Chinatown, ostensibly in response to a case of Bubonic Plague, but nobody could leave the area, and only white people were allowed to go in or out.

But that didn't matter, the Chinese community in SF was an easy target and they went after them.

Anyway, scapegoat immigrant communities has a long and dark history in the US.

# ? Feb 6, 2018 21:11

After The War: Apr 12, 2005; to all of my Architects
let me be traitor

Thanks for setting this up! I kept meaning to look for a dedicated thread in D&D because the topic can get swallowed up in the other US threads. Would you be into setting up a reading list for the OP, like in the USPOL threads of yore? Good reporting on the subject takes months, sometimes years of research to turn out a single article, and it will often be overshadowed by the scandal du jour. I'll try to find and share pieces I've read. In particular, if anyone else has anything covering the way immigration enforcement is feeding into the prison-industrial complex, please share - I'm sure there's a lot going on that's not getting picked up.

# ? Feb 7, 2018 00:24

Instant Sunrise: Apr 12, 2007; The manger babies don't have feelings. You said it yourself.

After The War posted:

Thanks for setting this up! I kept meaning to look for a dedicated thread in D&D because the topic can get swallowed up in the other US threads. Would you be into setting up a reading list for the OP, like in the USPOL threads of yore? Good reporting on the subject takes months, sometimes years of research to turn out a single article, and it will often be overshadowed by the scandal du jour. I'll try to find and share pieces I've read. In particular, if anyone else has anything covering the way immigration enforcement is feeding into the prison-industrial complex, please share - I'm sure there's a lot going on that's not getting picked up.

My all means, I'd love to have a good recommended reading list for this topic.

# ? Feb 7, 2018 00:43

After The War: Apr 12, 2005; to all of my Architects
let me be traitor

This is the first one that came to mind. It was shared in the Trump thread, but for the benefit of anyone who can't handle 10,000 posts an hour:

Sarah Stillman - "When Deportation Is a Death Sentence" (New Yorker, January 15, 2018 issue)

quote:

Ana Lopez, the mother of a twenty-year-old gay asylum seeker named Nelson Avila-Lopez, wrote a letter to the U.S. government during Christmas week in 2011, two months after Immigration and Customs Enforcement accidentally deported him to Honduras. Nelson had fled the country at seventeen, after receiving gang threats. He�d entered the U.S. unauthorized and been ordered removed, but an immigration judge then granted him an emergency stay of his deportation so that he could reopen his case for asylum. An ICE agent told his family�s legal team that Nelson was deported because �someone screwed up,� and ICE alleges that the proper office had not been notified of the judge�s stay.

�His life is in danger,� Ana Lopez wrote, begging U.S. authorities to reverse her son�s deportation. Her efforts proved fruitless. Two months later, Nelson died in a prison fire, along with more than three hundred and fifty other inmates. His lawyer told me that Nelson had been detained by the Honduran government without charges, in an anti-gang initiative. Survivors of the fire alleged that it was set intentionally, perhaps as an act of gang retaliation, and that the guards had done little to help the men as they screamed and burned to death in their cells.

quote:

The lawsuit also argues that the sanitation policy violated the Trafficking Victims Protection Act, a modern anti-slavery statute. To maintain cleanliness in the housing units, GEO used housekeeping crews like the one Ortiz was assigned to when he arrived at Aurora. According to GEO�s local detainee handbook, refusing to clean was considered a �high moderate�-level offense and was punishable by several possible sanctions, including up to three days of so-called �disciplinary segregation�: solitary confinement. Plaintiff Demetrio Valerga told the court in a statement that he �did the work anyway because it was well known that those who refused to do that work for free were put in �the hole.'� With the sanitation policy in place, the company employed just one janitor for the 1,500-bed facility.

Michelle Chen - "ICE�s Captive Immigrant Labor Force" (The Nation, October 11, 2017)

quote:

In a 2012 investigation of four ICE detention facilities in Georgia, the ACLU of Georgia described ICE detainees� being held in unsanitary, inhumane, isolating conditions, and regularly forced to work full-time for about $1 to $3 a day. Because of sparse rations, ACLU reported, �some detainees began to work in the kitchen just so they could eat more�. one detainee lost 68 pounds.� Their �volunteering,� in other words, involved literally working for food.

(Tons of links in that one.)

Spencer Woodman � �Private Prison Continues to Send ICE Detainees to Solitary Confinement for Refusing Voluntary Labor� (The Intercept, January 11 2018)

quote:

Shoaib Ahmed, a 24-year-old who immigrated to America to escape political persecution in Bangladesh, told The Intercept that the privately run detention center placed him in isolation for 10 days after an officer overheard him simply saying �no work tomorrow.� Ahmed said he was expressing frustration over the detention center � run by prison contractor CoreCivic � having delayed his weekly paycheck of $20 for work in the facility�s kitchen. ...

In addition to severe isolation, Ahmed spoke of being subjected to restrictive treatment in segregation that might be more expected for a violent and volatile criminal than for an immigration detainee under punishment for encouraging a work stoppage. Once a day, detention center officers would handcuff Ahmed and escort him outdoors for an hour in a recreation yard � which he described as a �cage� for one person. Three times a week, Ahmed and other detainees in solitary confinement were given the opportunity to shower. This meant being guided in handcuffs from his isolation cell to an individual shower room. �They push you into the shower room and then open the handcuffs,� Ahmed said, adding: �You take a shower and after that, you come back in your room. Then they put you back in the room. When you enter the room again, they open the handcuffs.� ...

In an October response to a suit from detainees in Colorado, major private prison contractor GEO Group appeared to echo this point. �Were a court to conclude that GEO must pay thousands of detainees a minimum wage, it would significantly affect the prices that GEO would have charge for its services,� stated a GEO Group court filing. The Colorado class-action suit, which demands that detainees be paid minimum wage for their labor, �poses a potentially catastrophic risk to GEO�s ability to honor its contracts with the federal government,� the firm stated in a separate filing.

That's about all I can handle for now. In a civilized society, there would be riots over this.

# ? Feb 7, 2018 03:22

PRAISE THE SUN: Feb 1, 2018

While current immigration policies definitely need modernization for the 21st century, I think that the people who flip their poo poo at the idea of having any kind of border control at all are absolutely insane. Literally every country in South America has extremely strict border policies and treats illegal immigrants far, far worse.

I'd be happy with changing immigration policies to be more simple and similar to a lot of other first world countries (namely, mostly only let in refugees and people who are economically useful in some fashion beyond simple day labor), along with making E-Verify mandatory for any business larger than, say, 10 employees.

# ? Feb 7, 2018 14:33

augias: Apr 7, 2009

PRAISE THE SUN posted:

While current immigration policies definitely need modernization for the 21st century, I think that the people who flip their poo poo at the idea of having any kind of border control at all are absolutely insane. Literally every country in South America has extremely strict border policies and treats illegal immigrants far, far worse.

I'd be happy with changing immigration policies to be more simple and similar to a lot of other first world countries (namely, mostly only let in refugees and people who are economically useful in some fashion beyond simple day labor), along with making E-Verify mandatory for any business larger than, say, 10 employees.

Can you cite any cases of a south american country that systematically abuses immigrant rights please. Im south american and my experience is biased towards "we aren't nazis like the gringos" but am willing to learn more since you apparently know something I didn't.

# ? Feb 7, 2018 14:54

PRAISE THE SUN: Feb 1, 2018

augias posted:

Can you cite any cases of a south american country that systematically abuses immigrant rights please. Im south american and my experience is biased towards "we aren't nazis like the gringos" but am willing to learn more since you apparently know something I didn't.

I meant Central and South America, but was actually thinking "Mexico". For that, at least, I do have some stuff.

This article is from 2006 but (for whatever that's worth) is cited on Wikipedia. There's also this article from 2016 that shows that things really havn't changed much in ten years.

# ? Feb 7, 2018 16:33

augias: Apr 7, 2009

PRAISE THE SUN posted:

I meant Central and South America, but was actually thinking "Mexico". For that, at least, I do have some stuff.

This article is from 2006 but (for whatever that's worth) is cited on Wikipedia. There's also this article from 2016 that shows that things really havn't changed much in ten years.

Thanks and please be careful not to equivocate the south american experience with a single country. We do quite hate that.

I'm reading right now. First thoughts are that immigrants in mexico are facing horrible treatment because Mexican police are notoriously corrupt and lawless. I see a nuanced difference with the U.S. where police are lawfully evil; supported by racist departmental, state, and federal policy. Same same, but different.

When my U.S. partner was in my home country illegally (ten day gap in her employment based visa) she had to pay a 40 dollar fine to a bureaucrat and got permanent residence anyways. Never had to fear police raids or random public transportation stops (which i am currently in fear of despite being here extremely legally.)

augias fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Feb 7, 2018

# ? Feb 7, 2018 17:04

joepinetree: Apr 5, 2012

PRAISE THE SUN posted:

While current immigration policies definitely need modernization for the 21st century, I think that the people who flip their poo poo at the idea of having any kind of border control at all are absolutely insane. Literally every country in South America has extremely strict border policies and treats illegal immigrants far, far worse.

I'd be happy with changing immigration policies to be more simple and similar to a lot of other first world countries (namely, mostly only let in refugees and people who are economically useful in some fashion beyond simple day labor), along with making E-Verify mandatory for any business larger than, say, 10 employees.

This is literally a lie. In fact, the US has been pushing for a crack down on the tri-border region because there is so little control of it. I've driven from Brazil to Argentina through Uruguay and half the time there is no one at the border post between Brazil and Uruguay. And to the extent that there is a border presence, the concern is more with illegal imports than illegal people. You don't need a passport or a visa to cross any of these borders.

And Mexico, of course, really started cracking down on its borders under request of the United States with programs like Frontera Sur.

# ? Feb 7, 2018 17:11

augias: Apr 7, 2009

I did give the "strong borders" statement the benefit of the doubt because several countries in Latin America have very stringent standards for organic matter entering the country and harming nature! I had to throw away a package of cumin seeds at the airport and they were for my mom!

But yeah people moving from one country to another? So easy.

# ? Feb 7, 2018 17:15

wateroverfire: Jul 3, 2010

augias posted:

But yeah people moving from one country to another? So easy.

It depends the country and what you're trying to do. You can get to Chile from a lot of places in Latin America with an ID card and no passport. But if you're coming to settle or work it's a different story (try coming from Peru or Colombia).

# ? Feb 7, 2018 17:39

joepinetree: Apr 5, 2012

wateroverfire posted:

It depends the country and what you're trying to do. You can get to Chile from a lot of places in Latin America with an ID card and no passport. But if you're coming to settle or work it's a different story (try coming from Peru or Colombia).

Which South American country "has extremely strict border policies and treats illegal immigrants far, far worse?"

# ? Feb 7, 2018 17:52

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# ? Apr 25, 2024 10:24

Lightning Knight: Feb 24, 2012; Pray for Answer

joepinetree posted:

Which South American country "has extremely strict border policies and treats illegal immigrants far, far worse?"

I mean frankly even if every country in the Americas was a fascist police state except the US that's not actually an excuse to poo poo on immigrants ourselves.

# ? Feb 7, 2018 17:59

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > US Immigration Policy Megathread

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