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Dr. Gargunza
May 19, 2011

He damned me for a eunuch,
and my mother for a whore.




Fun Shoe

Jerusalem posted:

If they remake Space 1999 they have to still call it Space 1999 and it still needs to be set in the super-futuristic year of 1999

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Narsham
Jun 5, 2008


Wheat Loaf posted:

Is that the one where Wolfe says something like, "If I were a black man, Mr Goodwin would have to be as well," and the inference is that Archie is actually Wolfe's son?

Right, although the inference being made is open to several interpretations and I think that "Archie is Wolfe's son" is one of the least plausible. Wolfe has some odd ideas sometimes about propriety. Also, I obviously did my math on McBride's age wrongly.

Narsham fucked around with this message at Mar 5, 2018 around 00:23

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

Hey, Karn, what do you say to console someone who just got Thought Erased? You give up? "Need a hand?"


Rhyno posted:

Nah, it's totally some dickbag living in his mom's basement.

He can't live forever, Rhyno. He can't live forever.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

sorry doesn't bring
me back to life, Hal.


No but since he's a selfish dick his last act will be to torch his horde.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

Hey, Karn, what do you say to console someone who just got Thought Erased? You give up? "Need a hand?"


Rhyno posted:

No but since he's a selfish dick his last act will be to torch his horde.

Since Doctor who was ruined forever by Russell T. Davies, Stephen Moffat, and Jodie Whittaker, I have consigned my cannisters of Evil of the Daleks to be frozen with me in my cryogenic capsule. If you'd like to unfreeze them, please email loomsforever@continwhoity.biz and ask that they renounce all the parts that include fun or diversity in the 2005 revival.

After The War
Apr 12, 2005

to all of my Architects
let me be traitor


Bicyclops posted:

Doctor who was ruined forever by Verity Lambert, David Whitaker, and William Hartnell.

Astroman
Apr 8, 2001



http://doctorwhogeneral.wikia.com/w..._Ruined_Forever

After The War
Apr 12, 2005

to all of my Architects
let me be traitor



That list is woefully abbreviated.

egon_beeblebrox
Feb 29, 2008

WILL AMOUNT TO NOTHING IN LIFE.



Whoa, so The Celestial Toymaker is more racist than I thought. That Ruined Forever list taught me something.

CobiWann
Oct 21, 2009

There are lost episodes of course. Stories that were commissioned but never made. Or made but misfiled, post broadcast. Sheer incompetence, of course.

Bicyclops posted:

Since Doctor who was ruined forever

Doctor Who.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless


Narsham posted:

Right, although the inference being made is open to several interpretations and I think that "Archie is Wolfe's son" is one of the least plausible. Wolfe has some odd ideas sometimes about propriety. Also, I obviously did my math on McBride's age wrongly.

It's not as good as the theory that Nero Wolfe is actually the son of Sherlock Holmes and Irene Adler, which is based largely on the fact that the vowels in "Sherlock Holmes" and "Nero Wolfe" come in the same order.


Speaking of grumpy fans, does anyone remember when translator/localiser/artist Paul "Otaking" Johnson produced a YouTube video about 10 years ago about Old Who vs New Who which argued that Old Who was better because it had violence and death and New Who was bad because it had "love" and "emotions"? Ahead of its time, I tell you.

Carbon dioxide
Oct 9, 2012



Rirse
May 6, 2006





So is he actually dead or he just can't be retrieved from the spaceship due to the black hole?

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Pillbug

Rirse posted:

So is he actually dead or he just can't be retrieved from the spaceship due to the black hole?

The suggestion is that he's trapped in a Sisyphean nightmare in which he is eternally pursued by perpetually-evolving cybermen who chase faster the farther he gets from the point of origin.

He'll be fine.

Astroman
Apr 8, 2001



CommonShore posted:

The suggestion is that he's trapped in a Sisyphean nightmare in which he is eternally pursued by perpetually-evolving cybermen who chase faster the farther he gets from the point of origin.

He'll be fine.

I thought the nightmare was that he was eternally pursued by that farm woman who was in love with him?

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.


egon_beeblebrox posted:

Whoa, so The Celestial Toymaker is more racist than I thought. That Ruined Forever list taught me something.

Yeah, in later releases they obscure the slur (or try to, anyway). Still the big problem of the Celestial Toymaker though.

[e]: Yeah, when they've reused the character, that's the meaning they've shifted to. When I first heard about the character, that's also what I thought they were referring too - it's a god-like entity who dresses as a mandarin for quirks, I guess - only later was it a "oh, that's why he's dressed as a mandarin...oh".
VVV

Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at Mar 6, 2018 around 10:00

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


Pesky Splinter posted:

Still the big problem of the Celestial Toymaker though.

I feel like that one you can still handwave to mean 'of the stars' or 'ethereal', a la Celestial Intervention Agency.

jivjov
Sep 13, 2007

How does it taste?

Dinosaur Gum

Tales From New Earth is out today from Big Finish. I'd love a goon-pinion on this one...first New Series-related boxset I haven't preordered.

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.


jivjov posted:

Tales From New Earth is out today from Big Finish. I'd love a goon-pinion on this one...first New Series-related boxset I haven't preordered.

I'll give it a go when I get paid next, just to give it a try.

From the description though, it's leaning heavily on the Doctor being in two of the episodes - but not actually starring Tennant, seeming to be in those companion chronicle style "And then a man appeared and said he was the Doctor, "We've got to do this", said the Doctor" - which is always a bit odd when there's otherwise a full cast.

I dunno, I'll see how the adventures of rando and catlady go, or if they do anything interesting with it. Or if it just ends up being another Graceless, or Vienna.

jivjov
Sep 13, 2007

How does it taste?

Dinosaur Gum

Did they get the guy that's the 10-soundalike that they're using for the Chronicles release?

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.


jivjov posted:

Did they get the guy that's the 10-soundalike that they're using for the Chronicles release?

Not by the looks of it.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


I wanna talk about Extremis, which is difficult because it's hard to talk about Extremis without talking about the episodes that follow it. That's part of the problem with waiting to write up my thoughts on individual episodes AFTER the full series has aired, there is a ton of context it is hard to divorce things from. But I think it is worth the effort, because regardless of the qualities of lack thereof of the episodes that follow, this individual episode has a hell of a lot to like about it. Plenty to dislike or make me scratch my head too, but taken by itself or even when considering the preceding episodes of the season I think it is pretty drat good.

The Doctor is now blind, as we learned rather clumsily at the end of the brilliant previous episode: Oxygen. So it seems surprising when this episode opens with him apparently fully sighted and traveling by boat on a planet devoted to execution, in what is rather lamely attempted to convince the audience that the Doctor is going to his own death. It's nothing of the sort, of course, because Moffat is reusing another of his old tricks: the misdirection. It's become increasingly less effective as time has gone by, purely by its repetition. The reveal that Missy is the prisoner and not his executioner doesn't land at all, in fact the Doctor has been summoned to the planet to be the agent of her execution, as the strict rules of the executioners are that only a Time Lord be permitted to kill another Time Lord. The cut back to the present (it was pretty obviously a flashback once we saw Missy, really) also sees the completely obvious and hilariously casual reveal of the "mystery" of who was in the Vault. Like the Hybrid and the Impossible Girl and the Doctor's name etc, it's just another example of Moffat's penchant for focusing attention on one thing only to declare something else was far more important all along. As said, most viewers (here at least) seemed to have figured that "trick" out already and in most cases been happy that the "mystery" was unimportant. Yes it's Missy inside the vault, and even the episode's later attempt to suggest that perhaps it is her corpse in there only to reveal she was alive all along doesn't have any weight, as previous episodes established clearly whatever was in the vault was alive and active. Moffat himself seems aware that the audience is going to be aware of his trick, and doubles down purely so that he can stack "twist" after "twist" and then subvert the importance of each and every "reveal". Why? So that he can actually somewhat successfully pull off a reveal he hid right at the start of the episode when the blind Doctor receives an e-mail labeled EXTREMIS.


The opening is real pretty at least!

Blind and hanging out in the dark in his lecture theater, the Doctor's sunglasses inform him that a number of middle-aged men have arrived in the room. Nardole quickly rushes in to act as the narrator and provide some audio exposition, which almost feels like some of the clumsier early Big Finish productions. They are representatives of the Vatican, joined by the Pope of all people, because of their concerns over a recently translated forbidden text known only as the Veritas. Predating the Christian Faith, the text was translated by an early Christian sect who then promptly committed mass suicide, their translations disappearing shortly afterwards. Over centuries work has continued on a new translation which was recently completed... only for all but one of the translation team - true believers who believed suicide would send them to hell - to kill themselves, and even the fate of the remaining member is unknown as he disappeared at the same time they killed themselves. So how can the Doctor help? The Church was recommended his services by Pope Benedict IX in 1045, and are apparently aware of either his long life or his time traveling abilities. They want HIM to translate the Veritas for them, even in full awareness of the fate of those who went before.

Why they chose Pope Benedict IX is beyond me, especially the decision to make her a (presumably secret?) woman? Though some claim it is a result of propoganda, that particular Pope is NOT particularly well-regarded by history.

As set-up this has been a mixed bag and a slow start and at the time I first watched this I remember getting an uneasy feeling that the season was finally breaking the string of good episodes that had preceded it. My main issue outside of the slow pace was that there was an unwelcome mixture of genuinely clever bits and bad jokes/poor characterisation. This continues in Bill's first scene, which moves from eye-rollingly lame to genuinely touching and then absolutely nails a Catholic guilt joke. Bill is on a date with a girl called Penny, back living with her foster mother who is still bafflingly unaware of Bill's sexuality (how? And why?) and bristles at the idea of Bill bringing a date home only to think it's just a girl's night in with a friend. After she leaves though, it becomes clear that Penny is not entirely at ease with her own sexuality, and Bill offers a charming and mature response lacking in her foster mother, there is nothing to feel guilty about... which is when the Pope storms in from Bill's bedroom complaining and Penny discovers a room full of conferring priests and decides to get the gently caress out of dodge.



The story jumps between past and present (more on the latter later), each informing the other as we learn more about the creation of the vault to house Missy's corpse, as well as the connecting events between the goofy Nardole from The Husbands of River Song and the somewhat more measured and competent character present in this season. Their journey through the hidden Vatican Library to uncover a hidden secret parallels the Doctor's own decision to tuck Missy away in a hidden place and guard her. The priests offer the Doctor the chance for confession and a lightening of his soul in the present, while in the past Missy begs for another chance and promises to be good. Structurally it all works well, but the slow pace and parallel stories serve to make the episode feel somewhat meandering. We're getting a lot of information but little urgency despite the grave stakes in both time periods, and the Doctor's blindness is so blatantly obvious it makes you wonder how anybody could be fooled. Hell, the Doctor even openly talks about being blind to Cardinal Angelo shortly after this, almost as if he just kind of assumed everybody knew in spite of his own refusal to admit it to anybody but Nardole.

The Veritas is a cool concept and the peril of the text is well established in writing and on-screen. After hearing about the suicides (kind of surprising to see that concept bandied about so openly in Doctor Who), we actually get to meet one of the people who have read the text, the missing translator has been squirreled away in the forbidden library. He has broken into the cage holding the Veritas and begs their forgiveness for what he has done before pulling a gun on them and fleeing. The sound of a gunshot suggests he has committed suicide, but despite the evidence of his own "eyes" the Doctor sends Bill and Nardole away to check on him in case he is only badly hurt and needs help. With Angelo investigating a mysterious light and a figure whose details refused to register on the Doctor's sonic shades, this leaves the Doctor alone with the Veritas, which is exactly what he wanted. Using a device from the TARDIS that can restore his sight temporarily at the expense of some unknown price from his future (what a terrible, short sighted thing to invent), the Doctor asks what he assumes to be a returning Cardinal Angelo to help strap him into the chair - presumably a safety measure designed to prevent further suicides by any who read the Veritas. Which is when things really start moving at last, as well as stuff getting real weird.



Enter The Monks, one hell of a design and what feels like an attempt to be another classic Moffat monster in the vein of The Weeping Angels or The Silence. The religious themes are there of course, the rasping voices and twisted image of something normally non-threatening. But what I love about their first proper appearance is that the Doctor sees one right up there in his face, gapes in shock... and then just starts having a happy chat with them because of course he isn't scared, if anything he's just more curious than ever now. As the Monks surround him, taking the Veritas from him, leaving him restrained and powerless, he just keeps them talking, taking them by surprise as he shuts out the lights and gets himself free in an instant, fleeing with the translator's laptop. Even when in complete control of the situation, knowing everything and having him completely in their power, the Monks aren't able to predict what the Doctor is going to do. That is pretty goddamn important come the end of this episode.

As the Doctor flees the Monks, falling and bonking his head in the process, Bill and Nardole's discovery of the final corpse has also seen them find another white light like the one that distracted Cardinal Angelo. Traveling through it, they find themselves in a completely different location: the Pentagon. Fleeing as they are pressed to show their security credentials, they return to a room filled with white portals shining out from featureless white pillars set up in a circle in the room. Choosing another portal, they find themselves at the CERN facility, which is where the now deceased translator sent digital copies of the now translated Veritas several hours earlier. Meeting a drunken researcher, he insists they join them for the party, and the episode ratchets up beautifully to a truly horrifying discovery, even if it is somewhat undercut by some cartoonish prop choices.



Because here is where we learn the truth, the "Veritas". All the people at CERN are planning to go out with a bang in a mass suicide. Why? Because the Veritas has revealed the truth... they don't exist. None of them exist. They're all simulations in some hyper-advanced computer program. The researcher has them pick a number at random and say it out loud on his cue, and to Bill and Nardole's shock they discover they keep saying the same number as the other, no matter how random or gigantic the number they call out. Even worse, the other researchers join in, each of them throwing out the same numbers on cue as well. Freaking out and with no idea what to do, they run to the portal as the countdown on the dynamite reaches zero and destroys the entire CERN facility and all the "people" inside it.

Back in the projector room, Bill and Nardole try to work out why THEY also counted the same numbers as the simulations. They are assuming each of the simulations are being projected by the pillars, but Nardole comes to a more devastating conclusion. They stepped out of a Vatican simulation, and it was Nardole who programmed the TARDIS to take them there and he knows he got it right, which means they were in a simulation BEFORE the Vatican? But then why is he saying the same numbers as the computer programs. Reconsidering the nature of the projectors, he steps forward and has his deepest, darkest fear realized.


He's a computer simulation too.

Matt Lucas does a great job as Nardole in this episode, both in the past and the present as we learn more about him and his attitudes and beliefs. Seeing his horror and fear as his physical form tumbles into digital nothingness truly works, because we know he's more than just the one-dimensional comic relief he was in his first appearance. For her part, Pearl Mackie is just as great as she recoils in horror at the sight of Nardole's "death", and then has to face the existential questions it raises for herself. If he is a computer program... is she too? She starts to reach for the edge of the projection to test the theory, but a mixture of fear and curiosity get the better of her. Rather than face the nature of her existence, she diverts to the mystery of the blood trail she spotted, perhaps it is the Doctor and he needs help? So she follows the blood through another portal and finds herself in the White House, where the now dead President of the United States (quite clearly neither a Trump nor an Obama stand-in) sits motionless in a chair having taken an overdose of pills... and the Doctor sits with the translator's laptop, having listened to an audio reading of the translated Veritas.

The teacher/student relationship (and it's inversions) have worked well all season so far, and that continues here as Bill and the Doctor discuss the truth contained in the Veritas. Bill in mounting horror and disbelief, the Doctor in quiet acceptance and dread. Suicide has been the end result of every person who has read the text, though Nardole's death came more by misadventure as he tested a theory he didn't want to believe. How would Bill and the Doctor have eventually reacted given enough time to process the nature of their reality? We'll never know in Bill's case, because one of the Monks has tracked them down and wipes her out, leaving her to cry out in terror, unaware it is there or what is happening, begging a helpless Doctor for help. It takes the chance to goad the Doctor, he is not real and never was, he is just a plaything for the Monks to practice conquering the world and killing him, and they have done it many, many times. The Doctor, exposed to the fact he is not who he thinks he is, that he isn't even real, despairs and begs the Monk to kill him, because he is without hope... which is when something wonderful happens, as you see this non-Doctor Doctor have a very Doctor moment.



This is how this Doctor "dies", not by suicide but in hope, the only person to read the Veritas and come out of it with a renewed sense of purpose. This is the big, final reveal/twist amongst all the many stacked obvious ones that I thought actually worked, that Moffat was able to sneak in by just doing the same thing multiple times in less effective ways. Because the e-mail we saw the Doctor receive right back at the start of the episode is happening now, the e-mail came from the simulated Doctor who figured out that the Monk's simulation was TOO good and gave him the ability to send a digitized message to the actual Doctor. It's not a new idea, it's happened in many other sci-fi shows before (one of my favorites was in an episode of Babylon 5) but it's handled extremely effectively and - though others in the threads here clearly disagreed at the time of airing - I would have been extremely happy if this was the last time we'd ever seen the Monks. If next week's episode had just been some completely unrelated adventure. To me, the idea of the monsters' own trick being turned against them, and their sophisticated information gathering being the method by which the real Doctor discovered they existed and formulated a plan to defeat them before they even had a chance to launch their invasion? I would have loved that. Hell, if the Monk had learned that IT was a simulation, created by the Doctor to learn how to defeat the aliens that use simulation to learn how to defeat the Doctor, I would have loved that too. A little contrived perhaps, but I got a kick from the notion that the Monks did such a good job making a version of the Doctor that he defeated them.

That was pretty clearly not going to be the case though, as the real Doctor receives the e-mail, reads the info contained inside and then contacts Bill and encourages her to ask Penny out on a date tonight as he fears something is coming soon that will take up all their time. He then turns to the vault and asks Missy the question, how can he save them if he himself is lost in the dark? It's a downbeat line to end an episode that dealt with dark issues, suicide, the realization of one's own lack of reality but then had seemed to twist things to an optimistic bent more in tune with the Doctor Who show that I love.

Oh yeah by the way, Missy is alive. In what came as a shock to nobody the Doctor's execution of Missy was a fake-out and his vow to guard her body for 1000 years never mentioned anything about her being dead. She just lives in a prison vault now and the Doctor and Nardole guard her, having scared off the executioner after presumably making him watch the Die Motherfucker video of the Doctor killing a bunch of people.



Even the most cursory consideration of the Monks and their powers raises about a million questions, of course, not least of which is how did they produce a completely accurate simulation of not only Bill and Nardole but the Doctor as well? Does their simulation include time travel? Did it start at a certain point with complete brain scans of every earth inhabitant? Did it only simulate "important" and specifically selected geographical regions? Or is a completely accurate simulation of the Earth's ENTIRE history up to the modern day point where the Monks intend to invade? Why did they produce such a hyper-sophisticated program and then include a singular RNG for every single instance of the simulation to read from? Was that deliberate to weed out the troublemakers and see how they would react? Was it unintended? The CERN scientists seemed to think destroying CERN alongside themselves would throw some kind of hammer in the works of the simulation? Were their suicides out of character (like the true believer Catholics) deliberately to upset the Monks' information gathering? Or was it intended all along by the Monks to remove problems from the game board?

All these questions don't automatically make the concept a bad idea, because generally speaking where it works is what is most important - it's a creepy and terrifying concept: you're not just inside of a simulation/game, you yourself are part of it. You're an NPC, and NPCs committing suicide because they've figured out they're NPCs is an incredibly creepy and well-realized idea executed well. There are no gaping issues, just niggling little ones that you'll find anywhere if you pull at enough strings, and they're not enough to affect my enjoyment of the episode.

Because I did enjoy this episode. Both on original viewing, and more with subsequent views. What happens AFTER this episode is irrelevant in the context of this episode's individual write-up, or as part of my thoughts on the other episodes preceding it and how they make me feel about this season. Yes it has a slow start, and features a bit too much of Moffat reusing some of his favored ideas/techniques, but once things get going they REALLY get going, and the existential horror the idea of a simulated reality causes is more than enough for me to forgive any other issues I might have. It's not a classic, and it's not up to snuff with some of the absolutely brilliant episodes that came before (Oxygen is still my gold standard for the season up to this point) but it's pretty drat good.

So with that all said... now I gotta face what comes next.

Jerusalem fucked around with this message at Mar 6, 2018 around 21:30

Zaroff
Nov 10, 2009

Nothing in the world can stop me now!

So it looks like the Season 12 bluray set is actually happening!

It does look tempting - I just hope that it's not overpriced...

Edward Mass
Sep 14, 2011



Hair Elf

I know it's a mock-up, but why are they using the 13th Doctor's logo?

Zaroff
Nov 10, 2009

Nothing in the world can stop me now!

Edward Mass posted:

I know it's a mock-up, but why are they using the 13th Doctor's logo?

It's apparently a new branding thing - everything has the new logo.

According to one of the Restoration team, the re-release of The Enemy of the World was on hold until they confirmed the new logo.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


Iím assuming theyíre not going to be dicks and still have the OCD-compliant style on the inside of the cover so you can swap out.

Edward Mass
Sep 14, 2011



Hair Elf

Zaroff posted:

It's apparently a new branding thing - everything has the new logo.

According to one of the Restoration team, the re-release of The Enemy of the World was on hold until they confirmed the new logo.

That seems a bit overboard. What happens when they change the logo again?

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Pillbug

I liked Extremis.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless


Every time I see "Extremis" I'm reminded of that early Big Finish pseudo-spin-off with Tony Head (which must have been made when Buffy was still going so he would've been a pretty big get).

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Wheat Loaf posted:

Every time I see "Extremis" I'm reminded of that early Big Finish pseudo-spin-off with Tony Head (which must have been made when Buffy was still going so he would've been a pretty big get).

This sounds interesting, what was it?

CommonShore posted:

I liked Extremis.

So did I! I hope that was clear in my write-up!

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.


Jerusalem posted:

This sounds interesting, what was it?


So did I! I hope that was clear in my write-up!

Excelis.

Short version, medieval-era Anthony Head meets with the fifth Doctor to find a container that contains all the souls of the dead of the planet (the planet/region's name being Excelis) - or where it goes after they die. Also Iris Wildthyme is there and Five gets very very grumpy at her. Hijinks ensue.

Spoilers Anthony Head becomes sort of semi-immortal for plot reasons, and meets up with Sixie hundreds of years later in a psuedo-Victorian age, where he can conjure up the spirits of the dead as a spiritualist medium. More hijinks.

Finally, in an 1984-esque Orwellian society, Anthony Head has moulded it into a dictatorship, and Seven stops him


And then earlier plotwise, but sorta the last story, Benny Summerfield bumps into Iris Wildthyme and hijinks ensue.

I didn't realise that was the same time as Buffy, he must have been a catch, indeed. He's also hilarious in Bleak Expectations - the surreal Dickens parodies - as Gently Benevolent - who is "ironically, a complete bastard".

Good write up on Extremis by the way. I've always enjoyed yours (and Cobi's, and others) interpretations, analyses and breakdowns.
I was ambivalent on watching it the first time, trying to assess where it was going - it was a lot stronger on repeat however.

Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at Mar 7, 2018 around 01:20

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

If nothing else, Extremis had a fairly bold premise for a children's show. There's been plenty of episodes where people confront death, but it's rare to have an episode where people are forced to confront the meaninglessness of their own existence. Of course, leave it up to the Doctor to find hope in hopelessness and make even his non-existence meaningful. One Moffat trope I never tired of was his theme of blurring the fourth wall and having stories about stories. This is almost a culmination of that idea, as the fictional simulated Doctor reaches out of the page to help the real one, the story making its influence felt in the real world(not unlike the novel In The Angels Take Manhattan, one of the kind of neat things about that episode)

You do kind of have to ignore the fact that the resolution of this episode does not influence the following episodes at all. Jerusalem is correct that this is better thought of as a one-off episode rather than part one of a trilogy. The last great Moffat episode...

2house2fly fucked around with this message at Mar 7, 2018 around 01:31

Rirse
May 6, 2006




Yeah the Monks should returned later on at the end of a season, finally showing their big plan at least instead of 'oh they here because their secret is known now". At least part 2 was pretty good at most parts, part 3 I already mentioned when I first watched it just feeling like a retrend of several episodes.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Pillbug

Jerusalem posted:

This sounds interesting, what was it?


So did I! I hope that was clear in my write-up!

It was - your preamble just made me want to emphasize that, too.

After The War
Apr 12, 2005

to all of my Architects
let me be traitor


Pesky Splinter posted:

Excelis.

Short version, medieval-era Anthony Head meets with the fifth Doctor to find a container that contains all the souls of the dead of the planet (the planet/region's name being Excelis) - or where it goes after they die. Also Iris Wildthyme is there and Five gets very very grumpy at her. Hijinks ensue.

Spoilers Anthony Head becomes sort of semi-immortal for plot reasons, and meets up with Sixie hundreds of years later in a psuedo-Victorian age, where he can conjure up the spirits of the dead as a spiritualist medium. More hijinks.

I wasn't going to spoiler-tag, because it's basic "back of the box premise" stuff, but now I'll feel like a jerk if I don't.

What I found neat about "Excelis" was the idea of a person who has become immortal trying to get their head around the Doctor's body changes, and concluding that it must be a form of posession or body-hopping. Lot of early BF-roughness, though, and the central Macguffin the Handbag of Time... of DEATH! is distractingly silly, but appropriate for an Iris Wildthyme story, I guess.

Vinylshadow
Mar 20, 2017


I liked Extremis and I'm lenient on Lie of the Land because it hits so many Half-Life 2 vibes for me



Easy enough to skip the middle episode though - the recap for The Pyramid at the End of the World, much like the recap for Zygon Invasion seen in Zygon Inversion, made it seem much more interesting than it really was

Organza Quiz
Nov 7, 2009



I liked Extremis but I really donít like how they handled the Doctorís blindness. To me he seems like the sort of character who should just get on with it, make whatever cool technology he needs to be able to do his thing and not mope about for ages about losing his sight being the worst thing in the world. How cool would it be for blind people to have a blind doctor rather than a mopey mess whoís lying to his friends because he doesnít want to admit he canít see?

Big Mean Jerk
Jan 27, 2009

MENTALLY
DEFEATED


Grimey Drawer

The best part of Lie of the Land is Capaldiís tattered blue coat.

Vinylshadow
Mar 20, 2017




Say what you like about the stories of Series 10, but there's no denying Capaldi looked fabulous in all of them

Just when I'd nearly forgotten about his fluffy hair...

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The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."



Itís interesting that the room the Doctor chose for himself there is very evocative of the original console room.

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